SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[mrache]

wow sucks. if you compare anything using wow as a reference you suck.

[Absolvus]

Voice acting is nice, but they could have and should have spent the money elsewhere FIRST making sure everything was fully functional and would live up to peoples standards set by MMOs of NOW not 7 years ago, I mean seriously just imagine how much they shelled out just for Timothy Omundson (Detective Laseter from Psych, also did other voices for Star Wars and several other TV shows etc) and Juliet Landau (Drusilla from Buffy) among other real actors, they actually hired REAL ACTORS not just people that do voice acting which is an expense they could have used ELSEWHERE to make it a more polished and better game!

 

This is just plain crazy, the voice acting was planned so much beforehand that suddenly spending money somewhere else would had to be done years before which means that the game was in completely different phase of production at the time.

 

You have to realize that they are probably already recording voice overs for content patches that will come over 6 months later. And I wouldn't be surprised if the expansion storylines were already in production.

 

Also, the game is already better than WoW.

[Voxtrot]

I find it amusing that wow is the gold standard simply because they are the most popular mmo ever. Sounds odd right? Just because wow is the most successful mmo ever doesnt mean every feature they implemented was a step in the right direction or innovative the only thing wow did for the mmo genre was change it and in my opninion the ONLY thing wow got right in its entire 7 year history was raid encounters. I for one think TOR is in a good spot right now, the game is playable solo and in groups and the story is amazing.

 

But i digress, people keep stating that because TOR lacks this or that that it is a borderline failure but Id like to know who sets the rules for what is a basic mmo feature just because you feel feature x is a must have doesnt make it so. I for one feel the Dungeon finder and raid finder features are the worst things to ever be in any mmo ever and ive played alot of them over the last 12 years.

 

Do you also feel that having a customizable UI is a bad feature and detrimental to the genre? How about a search function in the AH? Or hey, filters that actually work in a decent manner? Is all of this slowly corroding the inside of the MMO genre, as well?

 

How deep does this rabbit hole go?

Edited December 29, 2011 by Voxtrot

[Gunryu]

I find it amusing that wow is the gold standard simply because they are the most popular mmo ever. Sounds odd right? Just because wow is the most successful mmo ever doesnt mean every feature they implemented was a step in the right direction or innovative the only thing wow did for the mmo genre was change it and in my opninion the ONLY thing wow got right in its entire 7 year history was raid encounters. I for one think TOR is in a good spot right now, the game is playable solo and in groups and the story is amazing.

 

But i digress, people keep stating that because TOR lacks this or that that it is a borderline failure but Id like to know who sets the rules for what is a basic mmo feature just because you feel feature x is a must have doesnt make it so. I for one feel the Dungeon finder and raid finder features are the worst things to ever be in any mmo ever and ive played alot of them over the last 12 years.

 

It's an MMO it is not a single player game, they need to follow the industry of MMOs not just WoW the likes of Rift, Lotro, Aion, etc had the BASICS down, they need to figure out where certain games succeeded and where they failed but what they did was "Well we have voice acting so we will win" if they wanted to not follow mmo standards they should have put this game on consoles and called it Knight of the Old Republic 3.

[Absolvus]

In all honesty, they should have figured this out during beta. This is barring the fact that mods that have actually been incorporated successfully into WoW (and MMOs since) should have been included as a basic feature or at least an option. If they really want to cut into the market, they need to have competitive feature sets.

 

 

 

Wanting a combat log, something present since the ORIGINAL Everquest, is unrealistic expectations?

 

Please, do, go on.

 

Shrug, it only serves very small part of the playerbase. Most people don't need the combat log since they have already those BIG NUMBERS popping over the enemy's head, that's the important part apparently.

 

Only us who use parsers etc. want it for those purposes. Hell, I don't even need it unless there's some other way to consolidate the data than manually browse through log. So with hps/dps addon/parser yeah, I need it, otherwise it's pretty much useless.

[Voxtrot]

Shrug, it only serves very small part of the playerbase. Most people don't need the combat log since they have already those BIG NUMBERS popping over the enemy's head, that's the important part apparently.

 

Only us who use parsers etc. want it for those purposes. Hell, I don't even need it unless there's some other way to consolidate the data than manually browse through log. So with hps/dps addon/parser yeah, I need it, otherwise it's pretty much useless.

 

Actually it has much more function than that.

 

It A) helps us see exactly what abilities are hitting for (assuming the read-out is not fudged) and compare them to others and B) see what actually killed us. These are two major things that I checked even as a green MMO player back in the day and were relatively important.

 

How am I supposed to do either of those with numbers temporarily flashing on my screen for .5 seconds?

Edited December 29, 2011 by Voxtrot

[Gunryu]

In all honesty the people defending the massive flaws in this game seem to only want a single player game with a chat room, at least that's what it seems to me anyway.

[krookie]

Shrug, it only serves very small part of the playerbase. Most people don't need the combat log since they have already those BIG NUMBERS popping over the enemy's head, that's the important part apparently.

 

Only us who use parsers etc. want it for those purposes. Hell, I don't even need it unless there's some other way to consolidate the data than manually browse through log. So with hps/dps addon/parser yeah, I need it, otherwise it's pretty much useless.

 

I don't usually use parsers and whatnot but I generally find the combat log to be pretty useful. Sometimes your character dies for what seems like an unexplained reason. With a combat log, you can go back and see exactly what happened. Without it, you can only guess.

[Skoobie]

How did I make a personal attack any more than you did? I merely explained what I was conveying. If I explain what you were conveying (i.e. we are whiny, entitled brats), it sounds equally as harsh.

 

And yes, I was spot on about the lack of a capacity for critical thinking.

 

I guess you feel, eh?

 

e: In the end :itisacaranalogy:, this is exactly the same as buying a car with no air-conditioning or heating. Sure, those are convenience features, but EVERY VEHICLE SINCE THE 80s has carried them as standards. It makes sense to be a wee bit miffed that they are not present, and basically calling people who have these problems impatient or "unable to comprehend" anything is laughably dumb.

 

Except I never said anything that you just wrote. Again, did I touch a nerve? I never said anyone was whining, never called anyone entitled brats. Nothing wrong with wanting it all and wanting it now. As long as you can except that you can't always get what you want.

 

And no, I don't feel like "people who get angry over any product not carrying basic features of the product type is a whiny, impatient babys". I just don't think many of you know what a basic feature actually is.

 

UI is a basic feature. Customizable UI isn't.

 

You have a strange way of not taking things personally.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Skoobie

[Absolvus]

It's an MMO it is not a single player game, they need to follow the industry of MMOs not just WoW the likes of Rift, Lotro, Aion, etc had the BASICS down, they need to figure out where certain games succeeded and where they failed but what they did was "Well we have voice acting so we will win" if they wanted to not follow mmo standards they should have put this game on consoles and called it Knight of the Old Republic 3.

 

So you rather play LotRO with it's clunky combat mechanics? And Rift has one of the most bland fantasy worlds. Neither of those is nowhere near as fun to play as SWTOR. (never even played Aion due the expected grindiness of it)

[Forsbacka]

Shrug, it only serves very small part of the playerbase. Most people don't need the combat log since they have already those BIG NUMBERS popping over the enemy's head, that's the important part apparently.

 

Only us who use parsers etc. want it for those purposes. Hell, I don't even need it unless there's some other way to consolidate the data than manually browse through log. So with hps/dps addon/parser yeah, I need it, otherwise it's pretty much useless.

 

Small? Im sure that most people playing this game excpected this game to have decent UI, combat logs, LFG tool, decent combat system and working AH. Most people playing this game has some WoW background and like it or not, they did most things right hence it had more players than next 9 games on top 10 MMORPG games combined. I had big expectations for this game and so far it hasnt delivered on any other part than on voice acting on the quests. Quests emself are same old stuff. Most im worried about that as it is, there cant be any complex end game content unless they overhaul whole UI, combat logs/meters and combat system.

[Absolvus]

In all honesty the people defending the massive flaws in this game seem to only want a single player game with a chat room, at least that's what it seems to me anyway.

 

It's more MMO than WoW where you sit in capital and queue for assorted instances with automatically chosen participants from very large pool that goes outside your "server" (server is the place your capital exists, and your guild). After said instance is over it pukes you back to capital where you queue for another instance with random people all around certain server cluster. Meanwhile you chat in /g (chat room).

[Gunryu]

So you rather play LotRO with it's clunky combat mechanics? And Rift has one of the most bland fantasy worlds. Neither of those is nowhere near as fun to play as SWTOR. (never even played Aion due the expected grindiness of it)

 

 

As I said if you pay attention, they need to find where games succeeded and where they failed! Bioware did NOT do this, they are putting all of their stock on voice acting and also have clunky combat mechanics, poor pvp, a very bad UI, and also many of their areas I found rather dull, they have no combat log, no addon support, bugs that were reported in beta that they never fixed etc etc etc.

 

They basically did what they want not learning from their predecessors, again I point you to the car example listed several times in this very thread.

[Forsbacka]

So you rather play LotRO with it's clunky combat mechanics? And Rift has one of the most bland fantasy worlds. Neither of those is nowhere near as fun to play as SWTOR. (never even played Aion due the expected grindiness of it)

 

 

 

Im not very glad that this game took clunky combat systems from Lotro and blatand world from Rift. So far this game has been as same as any console RPG except it looks crap and lacks functionality.

[MiniBeas]

EA executives put pressure on Bioware to release for the holidays. This game was clearly rushed out the door and I am thinking not by choice of the Bioware developers. That is one of the things I like about the Activision / Blizzard relationship. Activision leaves Blizzard alone and allows them to take their time to release a product.

 

EA has a bad history of forcing developers to release unfinished games to earn a quick buck.

 

Warhammer Online. Enough said.

[Forsbacka]

It's more MMO than WoW where you sit in capital and queue for assorted instances with automatically chosen participants from very large pool that goes outside your "server" (server is the place your capital exists, and your guild). After said instance is over it pukes you back to capital where you queue for another instance with random people all around certain server cluster. Meanwhile you chat in /g (chat room).

 

Even on full realm this world seems to be more dead than ever in WoW and both world PvP and instacned PvP is a terrible joke compared to pretty much every MMO.

[TomWhiting]

decent UI

That is all perspective. I find the UI just fine. Yes, customizations might be wanted and desired, but you know what? THEY WILL GET THERE!

 

working AH.

Just because something doesn't work "as you expected it to" doesn't mean it doesn't work.

I went through the AH last night, bought myself a couple things I needed. It works JUST FINE

 

decent combat system

All perspective. The combat system works well enough. Is it perfect? No. Is it polished? No. Has it had 7 years of DECENT feedback to become so? No. I wouldn't count ANYTHING in these forums as 'decent feedback'.

 

I had big expectations for this game

Sounds like a personal problem.

I, as well had big expectations, and they were met. They will continue to be met and exceeded.

[Tokkii]

because it had 7 years to do research and development. A game released after it, should have an idea based on whats already done of what should be included an a next gen mmo.

 

As it stands, swtor is like WoW when it launched. Not how WoW is today. Which is the problem.

 

Not really, it has many necisasiys that WoW did not have (As opposed to most of the extra stuff people "request" on these forums). Examples:

 

Quest helper

More than one action bar

PVP CC duration reduction

Daily quests

/stuck command

 

Its hilarious how many people love to come here and act like they are all knowing, this game has had one of the best launches in MMO history. The only thing making it look bad is the vocal player base

[Voxtrot]

Except I never said anything that you just wrote. Again, did I touch a nerve? I never said anyone was whining, never called anyone entitled brats. Nothing wrong with wanting it all and wanting it now. As long as you can except that you can't always get what you want.

 

And no, I don't feel like "people who get angry over any product not carrying basic features of the product type is a whiny, impatient babys". I just don't think many of you know what a basic feature actually is.

 

UI is a basic feature. Customizable Ui isn't.

 

You have a strange way of not taking things personally.

 

Making one post in this thread and it being the entirety of "I want it all and I want it now!" is incredibly condescending to the concerns of other posters, and any monkey can infer what you mean by it ("Look at the impatient babbies LOL!"). In this case, the other posters were literally anyone who disagreed with you. So, yes, you certainly were not saying that with the sweetest of intentions. Don't be needlessly obtuse.

 

Secondly: Haha, are you crazy? Customizable UI has been around since the early aughts. At this point, it is a basic feature. An "UI" is not a basic feature, it is a blanket term for the tools the user is supplied with to interact with a program, in this case the game. An UI could be as simple as a black command prompt where you input data manually. To say the mere existence of that is a feature is like saying running processes is a "basic feature" of a computer. It is integral to the operation of the device itself, not a convenience feature.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Voxtrot

[Absolvus]

Small? Im sure that most people playing this game excpected this game to have decent UI, combat logs, LFG tool, decent combat system and working AH. Most people playing this game has some WoW background and like it or not, they did most things right hence it had more players than next 9 games on top 10 MMORPG games combined. I had big expectations for this game and so far it hasnt delivered on any other part than on voice acting on the quests. Quests emself are same old stuff. Most im worried about that as it is, there cant be any complex end game content unless they overhaul whole UI, combat logs/meters and combat system.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want full addon suite etc. Healing with current UI is not close optimal due small debuff/proc/buff icons. At least the raid UI is passable for healing and can be used in normal groups too.

 

As for LFG, it was known beforehand that it wouldn't be in the game. I do want better system for looking groups inside your server but I really dislike server cluster lfg like WoW's. If you expected it you weren't informed even though the info was out there.

 

Combat logs is still minor complaint from us hardcore and most people don't still need it. Not many people use outside parsers and few can bother manually shift through all that data.

 

Don't know what is wrong with combat system though, works fine for me. But I have been focusing on my healer who is caster so guess I should play melee more since it is more reactive and move's around more. You get better feel with them imo.

 

About complex end-game content, I'm not in hurry with that. You just can't expect Naxx-40 from new game. Overtuned BWL maybe to ********* raiders and keep hardcore banging their head in the wall.

[Forsbacka]

Not really, it has many necisasiys that WoW did not have (As opposed to most of the extra stuff people "request" on these forums). Examples:

 

Quest helper

More than one action bar

PVP CC duration reduction

Daily quests

/stuck command

 

Its hilarious how many people love to come here and act like they are all knowing, this game has had one of the best launches in MMO history. The only thing making it look bad is the vocal player base

 

You forget that its 2011, not 2004, just like Bioware did.

[Absolvus]

Even on full realm this world seems to be more dead than ever in WoW and both world PvP and instacned PvP is a terrible joke compared to pretty much every MMO.

 

WoW has terrible world PvP and instanced PvP.

 

And yeah, WoW seems packed since everyone is sitting in same city and queueing for instances. That's all you do there, instance, capital, instance, capital (chat in guild chat while in capital). Huge MMO.... right.

[Monocoque]

It's an MMO it is not a single player game, they need to follow the industry of MMOs not just WoW the likes of Rift, Lotro, Aion, etc had the BASICS down, they need to figure out where certain games succeeded and where they failed but what they did was "Well we have voice acting so we will win" if they wanted to not follow mmo standards they should have put this game on consoles and called it Knight of the Old Republic 3.

 

This is my point, the only thing that makes mmo basics mmo basics are games x,y,z, copying either feature a,b, and or c from mmo h even if they arent 100% needed at launch and not including features a,b and or c doesnt make an mmo unplayable. I will agree that there are some features id love to have in game but by no means do i think that the lack of them make the game unplayable. Actually I will agree, but the only feature so far that is a 100% needed like tomorrow feature is combat text/log. I can manage the AH it may not be....hell it may not be close to good but i CAN find what i am looking for. Not being able to sort vendor items is a PITA but i still can find what want. So far no lag, and responsive fun combat and great engaging story all my mmo pleasant surprises because i havent seen them in ALOT of mmos in the past.

[Gunryu]

This is my point, the only thing that makes mmo basics mmo basics are games x,y,z, copying either feature a,b, and or c from mmo h even if they arent 100% needed at launch and not including features a,b and or c doesnt make an mmo unplayable. I will agree that there are some features id love to have in game but by no means do i think that the lack of them make the game unplayable. Actually I will agree, but the only feature so far that is a 100% needed like tomorrow feature is combat text/log. I can manage the AH it may not be....hell it may not be close to good but i CAN find what i am looking for. Not being able to sort vendor items is a PITA but i still can find what want. So far no lag, and responsive fun combat and great engaging story all my mmo pleasant surprises because i havent seen them in ALOT of mmos in the past.

 

 

Responsive fun combat? There is such a delay in abilities there are a ton of threads on it! Heck try pvping, it's HORRIBLE in this game!

[Doomsaga]

Having unrealistic expectations and then crying when the sky isn't limit though is your problem.

 

It is new MMO, if you expected WoW after 10 years of development (they started way before they launched) but better in all aspects then you were just plain delusional.

 

The launch was much better than WoW's which is already a lot. Most of the bugs are minor annoyance and will be fixed in due time (NOTE: few weeks is really fast, if you were expecting anything faster again you are delusional).

 

And this is coming from someone who is lvl45/17 on his characters.

 

btw, game works for 99.99%. Your television analogy is ridiculous and even in that silly analogy you might have dead pixel or two and not get new tv due manufactures policy.

 

Unrealistic are u kidding me? Most of the bugs present were in BETA and ALPHA nothing unrealistic about if u can get your mouth off of biowares **** for one second and you'll see. WoW is a 2004 game. out of all the industries out the gaming industry is the one thats the most improving and setting the bar for the next generation of games. Also don't see how your lvl is any relevance and if u think all the important bugs are fixed u need to read to forums more still tons of them. Not asking for imidiate fixes all we asking for is at least for them to basically say "we know that such and such is broken and we will get to it when we can" the last thing they said aside from the kira bug(which still is broken for ppl it bugged on) is addressing queue times. when an mmo first release that's when you are suppose to be very active because that's when the most bugs appear. As for my T.V. analogy if it has a dead pixel or two i CAN return it for a new one if u don't understand that i suggest going back to school

Edited December 29, 2011 by Doomsaga