Returning player question: How did this happen?

[MiggidyMack]

Seriously, I come back to discover that they have changed the vanguard to a 10m class. How is that possible? I'm so confused. When I was gone did you guys all complain that guns shot too far?

 

It took me a few hours to even accept it really happened. I kept looking for what I must be missing to extend my range to... you know... blaster range. I started this class BECAUSE it was a ranged class. I chose it because it has a gun, and guns are ranged weapons. That's what makes them not swords.

 

I'm just really confused. How could they have possibly shoved a change like this down the throats of players? Are there just none of us left? Or was there a mass exodus (which would explain the server populations I'm seeing).

 

It's... I... *** happened? How could a sentient thinking human being make a decision like this? If Trooper players wanted to play a melee class, we'd have rolled one up... right?

 

/sigh, guess the only thing to do is vote with my wallet. That's a shame, I was enjoying the story, but this just decimates both my enjoyment of the gameplay and my suspension of disbelief... and that's hard to do in a game with laser swords and magic powers.

 

Am I missing something? Please tell me I just forgot to equip a scope or something.

Edited April 7, 2017 by MiggidyMack

[LeglessChair]

rapid shots

[forestguard]

My guess? Balance reasons. Edited April 7, 2017 by forestguard

[Cuiwe]

Seriously, I come back to discover that they have changed the vanguard to a 10m class. How is that possible? I'm so confused. When I was gone did you guys all complain that guns shot too far?

 

It took me a few hours to even accept it really happened. I kept looking for what I must be missing to extend my range to... you know... blaster range. I started this class BECAUSE it was a ranged class. I chose it because it has a gun, and guns are ranged weapons. That's what makes them not swords.

 

I'm just really confused. How could they have possibly shoved a change like this down the throats of players? Are there just none of us left? Or was there a mass exodus (which would explain the server populations I'm seeing).

 

It's... I... *** happened? How could a sentient thinking human being make a decision like this? If Trooper players wanted to play a melee class, we'd have rolled one up... right?

 

/sigh, guess the only thing to do is vote with my wallet. That's a shame, I was enjoying the story, but this just decimates both my enjoyment of the gameplay and my suspension of disbelief... and that's hard to do in a game with laser swords and magic powers.

 

Am I missing something? Please tell me I just forgot to equip a scope or something.

 

Gunnery Commando is awesome fun. You can also play it with a Rifle, too(except in dead serious modes)!

 

But for real...Ben Irving. Thank that pathetic excuse of a developer. He did the same thing to Shadows(I always liked how Serenity used to be kinda ranged -> you apply DoTs to soften up the enemy then close the distance, I also always prefered TkTT / Force Ltng to Double Strike / Thrash). He doesn't really understand SWTOR and, quite frankly, I suspect he was shipped in from somewhere else. Or I hope so because if he really was working on SWTOR for more than a year and he still made these things...well, he's braindead.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Cuiwe

[BoySaber]

Seriously, I come back to discover that they have changed the vanguard to a 10m class. How is that possible? I'm so confused. When I was gone did you guys all complain that guns shot too far?

 

It took me a few hours to even accept it really happened. I kept looking for what I must be missing to extend my range to... you know... blaster range. I started this class BECAUSE it was a ranged class. I chose it because it has a gun, and guns are ranged weapons. That's what makes them not swords.

 

I'm just really confused. How could they have possibly shoved a change like this down the throats of players? Are there just none of us left? Or was there a mass exodus (which would explain the server populations I'm seeing).

 

It's... I... *** happened? How could a sentient thinking human being make a decision like this? If Trooper players wanted to play a melee class, we'd have rolled one up... right?

 

/sigh, guess the only thing to do is vote with my wallet. That's a shame, I was enjoying the story, but this just decimates both my enjoyment of the gameplay and my suspension of disbelief... and that's hard to do in a game with laser swords and magic powers.

 

Am I missing something? Please tell me I just forgot to equip a scope or something.

 

Not that they lost only range but its DPS discipline rivals TANK damage.

[GhOsTPrOz]

Not that they lost only range but its DPS discipline rivals TANK damage.

 

While yes I can agree Plasma Tech sucks right now, it's far better then tanks! Tactics is extremely viable. As a long time player of tactics and GM of a raiding guild we have plenty of Tactics Vanguards, they are extremely viable and bring a lot of utility to a raid

 

Examples:

 

- Good Burst damage

- Sonic Rebounder for the group

- A off taunt

- Mobility

[GhOsTPrOz]

Seriously, I come back to discover that they have changed the vanguard to a 10m class. How is that possible? I'm so confused. When I was gone did you guys all complain that guns shot too far?

 

It took me a few hours to even accept it really happened. I kept looking for what I must be missing to extend my range to... you know... blaster range. I started this class BECAUSE it was a ranged class. I chose it because it has a gun, and guns are ranged weapons. That's what makes them not swords.

 

I'm just really confused. How could they have possibly shoved a change like this down the throats of players? Are there just none of us left? Or was there a mass exodus (which would explain the server populations I'm seeing).

 

It's... I... *** happened? How could a sentient thinking human being make a decision like this? If Trooper players wanted to play a melee class, we'd have rolled one up... right?

 

/sigh, guess the only thing to do is vote with my wallet. That's a shame, I was enjoying the story, but this just decimates both my enjoyment of the gameplay and my suspension of disbelief... and that's hard to do in a game with laser swords and magic powers.

 

Am I missing something? Please tell me I just forgot to equip a scope or something.

 

You got it all wrong bud, Vanguards never were a ranged class. To be played properly and optimally always required 4m in the past they did have more ranged abilities and I agree it SUCKS they took them out...but don't act like it was a ranged class. You had full auto and sticky grenade at 30 meters and some 15 meter stuff. Anyone standing there at 30 meters trying to play it like that was an idiot though. The ranged abilities were useful when you couldn't reach the target

 

Example: Revan HM when you have to go out for cleanses or git rid of the yellow beam.

Pvp when someone's kiting you.

 

You still have a dot in plasma and a high damaging grenade in tactics, as well as rapid shot and a 10 meter ability or two. Like I said, I am not happy about the changes either...but this IS how the class was always meant to be played, and to play it optimally required you using stock strike, a 4m ability...on cool down.

 

Also there IS a utility that makes you a ranged DPS for 20 seconds when you pop battle focus, but if you ask me that's not really worth it save a few scenarios.

[Exedong]

U would think that by making it more short ranged than it used to be, they will bring some of the DCDs on par with other melee classes, but ofc u are stucked with shield and kolto and nerfs to things such as cannon heal.

[TalonVII]

You got it all wrong bud, Vanguards never were a ranged class. To be played properly and optimally always required 4m in the past they did have more ranged abilities and I agree it SUCKS they took them out...but don't act like it was a ranged class. You had full auto and sticky grenade at 30 meters and some 15 meter stuff. Anyone standing there at 30 meters trying to play it like that was an idiot though. The ranged abilities were useful when you couldn't reach the target

 

Example: Revan HM when you have to go out for cleanses or git rid of the yellow beam.

Pvp when someone's kiting you.

 

You still have a dot in plasma and a high damaging grenade in tactics, as well as rapid shot and a 10 meter ability or two. Like I said, I am not happy about the changes either...but this IS how the class was always meant to be played, and to play it optimally required you using stock strike, a 4m ability...on cool down.

 

Also there IS a utility that makes you a ranged DPS for 20 seconds when you pop battle focus, but if you ask me that's not really worth it save a few scenarios.

 

Sure it required to be closer, but you could lead off and get attention from a lot longer ranges.

[Cuiwe]

You got it all wrong bud, Vanguards never were a ranged class. To be played properly and optimally always required 4m in the past they did have more ranged abilities and I agree it SUCKS they took them out...but don't act like it was a ranged class. You had full auto and sticky grenade at 30 meters and some 15 meter stuff. Anyone standing there at 30 meters trying to play it like that was an idiot though. The ranged abilities were useful when you couldn't reach the target

 

Example: Revan HM when you have to go out for cleanses or git rid of the yellow beam.

Pvp when someone's kiting you.

 

You still have a dot in plasma and a high damaging grenade in tactics, as well as rapid shot and a 10 meter ability or two. Like I said, I am not happy about the changes either...but this IS how the class was always meant to be played, and to play it optimally required you using stock strike, a 4m ability...on cool down.

 

Also there IS a utility that makes you a ranged DPS for 20 seconds when you pop battle focus, but if you ask me that's not really worth it save a few scenarios.

 

Yeah, you are talking about HM and NiM content...

 

Most players are unhappy because they CAN'T PLAY Heroics and Story as they used to. Prior to 4,0 we had an average range of 15-20m(with TWO{Three for Tactics} melee abilities -> and, tbh, all of those can be reworked into 15-20m abilities rather easily too). We could be in control and choose the distance we want. When that was mostly taken away from us, they gave us Storm on level 21(after much RAGE here on forums and on reddit -> you used to get that useless translocate at 21). Meaning, endure Ord and Coruscant and HAVE FUN! Meanwhile in 5,0 it is miserable, purely miserable. Plasma damage is lol, Shield Spec is the least useful tank out there and Tactics...is ok(there are better choices out there to fill Tactic's spot tbh).

 

LEVEL 59 Storm and 10m abilities! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

Edited April 10, 2017 by Cuiwe

[forestguard]

Yeah, you are talking about HM and NiM content...

 

Most players are unhappy because they CAN'T PLAY Heroics and Story as they used to. Prior to 4,0 we had an average range of 15-20m(with TWO{Three for Tactics} melee abilities -> and, tbh, all of those can be reworked into 15-20m abilities rather easily too). We could be in control and choose the distance we want. When that was mostly taken away from us, they gave us Storm on level 21(after much RAGE here on forums and on reddit -> you used to get that useless translocate at 21). Meaning, endure Ord and Coruscant and HAVE FUN! Meanwhile in 5,0 it is miserable, purely miserable. Plasma damage is lol, Shield Spec is the least useful tank out there and Tactics...is ok(there are better choices out there to fill Tactic's spot tbh).

 

LEVEL 59 Storm and 10m abilities! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

 

Why wouldn't they balance the class around the best players and toughest endgame?

 

Most players are unhappy because the dps, at least for plasma, is terrible for the survivability and range. Shield Specialist has it's uses, if you know what you're doing ajd how to cycle the DCDs. It has the only target-centered AoE taunt, which also provides a shield for the nearby allies, which is more than Shadows give teammates. VG tanks have an AoE accuracy debuff, albeit a lower one, but has some nice synergy with Battle Focus. I've managed to successfully tank bosses in DF and EV, granted SM bosses, but that's even w/o the 4piece set bonus. (Also ended up soloing most of the first boss in Assault on Tython after my 3 group members died. Only had to pop koltos a couple times)

 

And honestly, I'd much rather have VGs forced into melee range (unless the dps specs get spec specific changes) than have them sit back and miss out on important buffs and pretty much lower dps or dtps. Bioware could potentially balance plasma and tactics around being ranged then, but for now, melee range. (Yes, plasma at least needs a damage buff)

[TalonVII]

Why wouldn't they balance the class around the best players and toughest endgame?

 

Most players are unhappy because the dps, at least for plasma, is terrible for the survivability and range. Shield Specialist has it's uses, if you know what you're doing ajd how to cycle the DCDs. It has the only target-centered AoE taunt, which also provides a shield for the nearby allies, which is more than Shadows give teammates. VG tanks have an AoE accuracy debuff, albeit a lower one, but has some nice synergy with Battle Focus. I've managed to successfully tank bosses in DF and EV, granted SM bosses, but that's even w/o the 4piece set bonus. (Also ended up soloing most of the first boss in Assault on Tython after my 3 group members died. Only had to pop koltos a couple times)

 

And honestly, I'd much rather have VGs forced into melee range (unless the dps specs get spec specific changes) than have them sit back and miss out on important buffs and pretty much lower dps or dtps. Bioware could potentially balance plasma and tactics around being ranged then, but for now, melee range. (Yes, plasma at least needs a damage buff)

 

True but here's the fun part. You can't tank off the bat very well. You literally have to RUN in till lvl 59(which is the dumbest move they made should be a lvl 10 ability) and even then, you can't get the attention of the mobs or boss very well.

 

You just don't have very good taunts and don't do enough damage to make the boss stay sustained on you. The rotation is bad, the abilities are gimped the animations for many reworks are ATROCIOUS and on the "DPS" specs, they are just flatly HORRIBLE.

 

Need to be redone, plain and simple. Even if it's a 20 meter range for say Arty barrage, and a few of the others, atleast we could start out at 20m and then wade into melee range.

[Ottoattack]

You got it all wrong bud, Vanguards never were a ranged class. To be played properly and optimally always required 4m in the past they did have more ranged abilities and I agree it SUCKS they took them out...but don't act like it was a ranged class. You had full auto and sticky grenade at 30 meters and some 15 meter stuff. Anyone standing there at 30 meters trying to play it like that was an idiot though. The ranged abilities were useful when you couldn't reach the target

 

Example: Revan HM when you have to go out for cleanses or git rid of the yellow beam.

Pvp when someone's kiting you.

 

You still have a dot in plasma and a high damaging grenade in tactics, as well as rapid shot and a 10 meter ability or two. Like I said, I am not happy about the changes either...but this IS how the class was always meant to be played, and to play it optimally required you using stock strike, a 4m ability...on cool down.

 

Also there IS a utility that makes you a ranged DPS for 20 seconds when you pop battle focus, but if you ask me that's not really worth it save a few scenarios.

 

PT is not a long ranged class, but the ability to use RS and regain RS at 30 meters was key in AP's effectiveness. It was designed to be a mid range class with strong full range option. This also was in line with their level of survivabaility. Not only was the range cut, PT lost out on survivability, mobility and damage from 3.0 through today, even though most other classes survivability went through the roof.

 

The ranged utility is 15 secs every 120 secs, and is a complete waste in PvP.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Ottoattack

[forestguard]

True but here's the fun part. You can't tank off the bat very well. You literally have to RUN in till lvl 59(which is the dumbest move they made should be a lvl 10 ability) and even then, you can't get the attention of the mobs or boss very well.

 

You just don't have very good taunts and don't do enough damage to make the boss stay sustained on you. The rotation is bad, the abilities are gimped the animations for many reworks are ATROCIOUS and on the "DPS" specs, they are just flatly HORRIBLE.

 

Need to be redone, plain and simple. Even if it's a 20 meter range for say Arty barrage, and a few of the others, atleast we could start out at 20m and then wade into melee range.

 

I will not and have not denied the stupidity of Storm at 59. It was a pain when I want to tank FPs while leveling, so I would just swap to damage.

 

Maybe it's just me, Idk, but I have no issues with tanking and aggro, and I rarely fire my taunts. I mainly fire them if the boss pulled an aggro reset, or adds show up and I need them off my healers, or someone happens to taunt the target off me. Sonic round ends up getting used more for the shield on certain fights.

[Cuiwe]

Why wouldn't they balance the class around the best players and toughest endgame?

 

Most players are unhappy because the dps, at least for plasma, is terrible for the survivability and range. Shield Specialist has it's uses, if you know what you're doing ajd how to cycle the DCDs. It has the only target-centered AoE taunt, which also provides a shield for the nearby allies, which is more than Shadows give teammates. VG tanks have an AoE accuracy debuff, albeit a lower one, but has some nice synergy with Battle Focus. I've managed to successfully tank bosses in DF and EV, granted SM bosses, but that's even w/o the 4piece set bonus. (Also ended up soloing most of the first boss in Assault on Tython after my 3 group members died. Only had to pop koltos a couple times)

 

And honestly, I'd much rather have VGs forced into melee range (unless the dps specs get spec specific changes) than have them sit back and miss out on important buffs and pretty much lower dps or dtps. Bioware could potentially balance plasma and tactics around being ranged then, but for now, melee range. (Yes, plasma at least needs a damage buff)

 

Because you lot number 10% of playerbase AT BEST. This isn't a choice: 10% or 90%. Unless those 10% are like Hunched Whales and function in line to Paretto...how's that a choice?

 

And, no, Vanguards used to be mid ranged and the stupid devs keep forcing us in melee. Best example? Why did Plasma get that useless Shockstrike upgrade(an upgrade that fits a Shield Spec at least 10x better)? Why not Ion Storm...you know, the actual plasma / Ion ability? Like Ion Pulse? Because they are FORCING us into melee, that's why. Also, that's why Gut isn't a "Gutting Round" and mid ranged(also slap Sundered there et voila!). Because "fk players, we know what they want".

 

...oh the arrogance of some people. They can't even put an update out on a designated date, let alone know what someone wants, fml...

[forestguard]

Because you lot number 10% of playerbase AT BEST. This isn't a choice: 10% or 90%. Unless those 10% are like Hunched Whales and function in line to Paretto...how's that a choice?

 

And, no, Vanguards used to be mid ranged and the stupid devs keep forcing us in melee. Best example? Why did Plasma get that useless Shockstrike upgrade(an upgrade that fits a Shield Spec at least 10x better)? Why not Ion Storm...you know, the actual plasma / Ion ability? Like Ion Pulse? Because they are FORCING us into melee, that's why. Also, that's why Gut isn't a "Gutting Round" and mid ranged(also slap Sundered there et voila!). Because "fk players, we know what they want".

 

...oh the arrogance of some people. They can't even put an update out on a designated date, let alone know what someone wants, fml...

 

Never said they didn't force us into melee, just said I prefer it that way, just like I prefer balancing a class for the top tier as opposed to the rest of us casuals, which then means a class is balanced around being in a group (or in pvp) as opposed running solo content. The majority isn't always right or has the best way of doing things. It's usually better to balance according to the better players.

 

Now, I have said I have no trouble with VGs as they are. I had little trouble when I ran dps for flashpoints prior to getting Storm. Maybe a little lacking in damage for Plasma, but the fact I kept forgetting about incindiery round didn't help either. I'm also not opposed to changes to the dps to make them more viable (or at least plasma), but from my runs in those specs, I didn't feel terrible (well, not outside of when I was trying to adjust from tanking). The only reason a plasmatech has to get in melee is when they are hitting shockstrike for their HIB autocrit, and that's only every 9-15 seconds. And Tactics only needs to hit gut once and refresh it consistently with HIB, with no real need for stockstrike.

 

..oh look, only 1 skill for both that requires melee, then you can just step back.

[Cuiwe]

Never said they didn't force us into melee, just said I prefer it that way, just like I prefer balancing a class for the top tier as opposed to the rest of us casuals, which then means a class is balanced around being in a group (or in pvp) as opposed running solo content. The majority isn't always right or has the best way of doing things. It's usually better to balance according to the better players.

 

Now, I have said I have no trouble with VGs as they are. I had little trouble when I ran dps for flashpoints prior to getting Storm. Maybe a little lacking in damage for Plasma, but the fact I kept forgetting about incindiery round didn't help either. I'm also not opposed to changes to the dps to make them more viable (or at least plasma), but from my runs in those specs, I didn't feel terrible (well, not outside of when I was trying to adjust from tanking). The only reason a plasmatech has to get in melee is when they are hitting shockstrike for their HIB autocrit, and that's only every 9-15 seconds. And Tactics only needs to hit gut once and refresh it consistently with HIB, with no real need for stockstrike.

 

..oh look, only 1 skill for both that requires melee, then you can just step back.

 

That's just it! Why not rework that 1 skill so you don't have to be melee? Plasma proc could proc off Ion Pulse(...idk tbh) and Gut DoT could just be applied to Sticky / Plastique via a passive similar to what they did with Flechette over at Scrapper's.

 

I mean...it's ONE SKILL. It's not like it's 50 / 50 like in Focus or something...

[Torvai]

Because you lot number 10% of playerbase AT BEST. This isn't a choice: 10% or 90%. Unless those 10% are like Hunched Whales and function in line to Paretto...how's that a choice?

This isn't aimed at you, but if you start to balance around the average player, or as you put it, 90%, then each class would have 1 ability and that's it.

And I'm not even joking. For all of the solo content in this game nowadays you need 1 skill, your spammable aoe, and a companion set to heal. That's it. And people actually play this way. And then wonder when SM Ops bosses enrage at 60%.

So yes, balance needs to happen around how a class is meant to be played and what it can theoretically achieve. Not how players actually use what they are given.

And if players find a creative way to achieve more than what is intened for balance purposes, the devs need to change it(think of dotsmash maras back in the day for example).

[forestguard]

That's just it! Why not rework that 1 skill so you don't have to be melee? Plasma proc could proc off Ion Pulse(...idk tbh) and Gut DoT could just be applied to Sticky / Plastique via a passive similar to what they did with Flechette over at Scrapper's.

 

I mean...it's ONE SKILL. It's not like it's 50 / 50 like in Focus or something...

 

It is one skill, but it's a vulnerability for them. I'm a firm believer that each class should have a weakness. Snipers and mercs need a slight change in that regard. Sorcs have lower damage for the healing and utility they have (although a tad too low atm), sents and guardians can be kited due to being melee, non-Kinetic Combat shadows are squishy and melee. Scoundrels are squishier and low range. VGs have heavy armor (like mandos) and tanking capabilities. They used to have higher damage and medium range. They were once considered OP and claimed to have a win-button (similar to slingers and mandos now). They needed nerfed and making them rely on a melee skill and cutting range was a way to do that.

 

This isn't aimed at you, but if you start to balance around the average player, or as you put it, 90%, then each class would have 1 ability and that's it.

And I'm not even joking. For all of the solo content in this game nowadays you need 1 skill, your spammable aoe, and a companion set to heal. That's it. And people actually play this way. And then wonder when SM Ops bosses enrage at 60%.

So yes, balance needs to happen around how a class is meant to be played and what it can theoretically achieve. Not how players actually use what they are given.

And if players find a creative way to achieve more than what is intened for balance purposes, the devs need to change it(think of dotsmash maras back in the day for example).

 

This. Similar conversations occur on the League of Legends forums when they balance around the pros. The best will find how the get the most with the least amount of drawbacks, which then...should...make it easier to see where to buff and nerf.

 

Balancing is an art, and sometimes it requires changes to characters or classes that might not make sense, but it has to be done for game health.

[Ottoattack]

It is one skill, but it's a vulnerability for them. I'm a firm believer that each class should have a weakness. Snipers and mercs need a slight change in that regard. Sorcs have lower damage for the healing and utility they have (although a tad too low atm), sents and guardians can be kited due to being melee, non-Kinetic Combat shadows are squishy and melee. Scoundrels are squishier and low range. VGs have heavy armor (like mandos) and tanking capabilities. They used to have higher damage and medium range. They were once considered OP and claimed to have a win-button (similar to slingers and mandos now). They needed nerfed and making them rely on a melee skill and cutting range was a way to do that.

 

 

 

This. Similar conversations occur on the League of Legends forums when they balance around the pros. The best will find how the get the most with the least amount of drawbacks, which then...should...make it easier to see where to buff and nerf.

 

Balancing is an art, and sometimes it requires changes to characters or classes that might not make sense, but it has to be done for game health.

 

Balancing LOL is easier than an SWTOR. There are way more variables in SWTOR. Not only that, there are way more game modes. The idea though that the devs have some keen insights that no one understands is incorrect. If you collect the info from multiple theory crafters, including some that probably spent hundreds of hours on the various analysis, it does not need too much effort to see where things stand.

 

The difficult part that PTs primarily suffer from is the devs are too stingy in providing survivability and range tools. In my experience BW tends to put tanks balance in PvE ahead of everything else in terms of class balance. Extremely misguided approach. This is why tanks tend to be the closets in terms of class balance (PT still the worst currently though). When you get to dps, the differences are massive.

[forestguard]

Balancing LOL is easier than an SWTOR. There are way more variables in SWTOR. Not only that, there are way more game modes. The idea though that the devs have some keen insights that no one understands is incorrect. If you collect the info from multiple theory crafters, including some that probably spent hundreds of hours on the various analysis, it does not need too much effort to see where things stand.

 

The difficult part that PTs primarily suffer from is the devs are too stingy in providing survivability and range tools. In my experience BW tends to put tanks balance in PvE ahead of everything else in terms of class balance. Extremely misguided approach. This is why tanks tend to be the closets in terms of class balance (PT still the worst currently though). When you get to dps, the differences are massive.

 

I see more variables in LoL than SWtOR, given the amount of champs and items, and the interactions each champ has with each item.

 

We have access to similar info that devs do, as well as theorycrafting, i just meant that devs might take a step that we don't understand or agree with. The main info they have that we might not, as far as I'm aware, is the actual amount of each class and what they participate in.

 

I feel like part of the reason VG tanks are worse is they can't ignore specific damage types. Shadows have resilience to ignore Force and Tech, Guardians can ignore ranged with Saber Reflect. We can only ignore movement related debuffs.

 

I'm not saying the specs don't need buffs (i've proposed some myself in other threads). My balancing point was more in regards to the range situation and why they might've been lead to where they are now..at least how I view things.

[TalonVII]

Honestly I'd be happy if the following abilities were 20 meters:

-Tactical surge(replaces ion pulse in tactics)

-HiB/Rail shot

-Flak shell/shatter slug

-Artillery Blitz/deadly onslaught.

 

If these abilities got shifted to 20 meters while the rest remained 10 and below, I think VG/PT would come out fine.

 

Yes Ion wave, Cell burst, Ion pulse and most of the plasma abilities should stay to meters. But hell even if HiB/railshot and Arty blitz/onslaught went to 20 meters I'd be happy as hell.

 

That and storm and rocket charge moving to level 10. Those 3 changes would help the VG/PT out a lot.

[Ottoattack]

Honestly I'd be happy if the following abilities were 20 meters:

-Tactical surge(replaces ion pulse in tactics)

-HiB/Rail shot

-Flak shell/shatter slug

-Artillery Blitz/deadly onslaught.

 

If these abilities got shifted to 20 meters while the rest remained 10 and below, I think VG/PT would come out fine.

 

Yes Ion wave, Cell burst, Ion pulse and most of the plasma abilities should stay to meters. But hell even if HiB/railshot and Arty blitz/onslaught went to 20 meters I'd be happy as hell.

 

That and storm and rocket charge moving to level 10. Those 3 changes would help the VG/PT out a lot.

 

It will surely make PT/VG much better, but will remain weak across the board. They need a damage buff in both dps specs. And unless there is a suvivability nerf (big time) on merc, snipers and mara then PT/VG will require a major survivability buff.

[forestguard]

Honestly I'd be happy if the following abilities were 20 meters:

-Tactical surge(replaces ion pulse in tactics)

-HiB/Rail shot

-Flak shell/shatter slug

-Artillery Blitz/deadly onslaught.

 

If these abilities got shifted to 20 meters while the rest remained 10 and below, I think VG/PT would come out fine.

 

Yes Ion wave, Cell burst, Ion pulse and most of the plasma abilities should stay to meters. But hell even if HiB/railshot and Arty blitz/onslaught went to 20 meters I'd be happy as hell.

 

That and storm and rocket charge moving to level 10. Those 3 changes would help the VG/PT out a lot.

 

That's more reasonable than all abilities being ranged. Means they'd still have to get into melee range at some point (Gut and Shockstrike, unless those are changed), and the movespeed from Hold the Line would help that. Would that be both plasma and Tactics, or just tactics? I personally think it'd be interesting to have plasma and tactics different ranges, but Idk what you were thinking. If just tactics, could make it a spec specific buff, and maybe funnel some of the less used defense to plasma? *shrug* I'm not opposed to changes, just hesitant with balancing around the average player and potentially breaking the class...like screwing with Shield Spec too much (ranged tanks and balance don't go well together, in my opinion).

 

I feel like some players issues, albeit temporarily, would be abated by making Aim Extensions apply to HiB as well. At least then you can use stronger abilities as you close in, rather than having to run in with Storm.

 

Which, btw, I 100% agree that it should be earlier. If not 10 then pretty close.

 

Sorry for the stubbornness earlier. Just cautious when it comes to balancing sometimes.

[TalonVII]

That's more reasonable than all abilities being ranged. Means they'd still have to get into melee range at some point (Gut and Shockstrike, unless those are changed), and the movespeed from Hold the Line would help that. Would that be both plasma and Tactics, or just tactics? I personally think it'd be interesting to have plasma and tactics different ranges, but Idk what you were thinking. If just tactics, could make it a spec specific buff, and maybe funnel some of the less used defense to plasma? *shrug* I'm not opposed to changes, just hesitant with balancing around the average player and potentially breaking the class...like screwing with Shield Spec too much (ranged tanks and balance don't go well together, in my opinion).

 

I feel like some players issues, albeit temporarily, would be abated by making Aim Extensions apply to HiB as well. At least then you can use stronger abilities as you close in, rather than having to run in with Storm.

 

Which, btw, I 100% agree that it should be earlier. If not 10 then pretty close.

 

Sorry for the stubbornness earlier. Just cautious when it comes to balancing sometimes.

 

Actually I'd like it more that Tactics was more the ranged setup where Plasma is the more close in melee range spec. Shield would also be a close in spec though I personally think Gut should move over to shield and replace translocate(as I find it a worthless skill) and give Tactics another ranged attack. Maybe another attack akin to flakshell?

 

Where as Plasma is again the up close and personal DPS discipline.