Are sorc dps pointless in PvP?

[BoySaber]

Balance (Sage) or Madness (Sorcerer) can rival Gunnery (Commando) or Arsenal (Mercenary) in 1 on 1 PvP. They do less instant damage and need time to take down the Commando/Arsenal, but they can last longer and are not depended on a long duration DCD that Commando and Mercenary have, in 1 on 1, Balance/Madness wins without much effort because there is enough self off heals, health steals and LOS breaking while still damaging enemy who cannot target you all time. By using environment to your advantage, and knowing your discipline, you can take down Commandos and Mercenaries in 1 on 1. Unfortunately, I cannot say same for Telekinetic (Sage) and Lighting (Sorcerer) because the damage they can pull is too weak and requires not breaking LOS, which makes you a perfect target in light armor with no health steals. By the time you menage to damage them, the cooldown for Commando and Merc best DCD already ended, and they can get back on their feet instantly, while you can't. It is very sad that Telekinetic and Lighting are that low as DPS disciplines, for they visually look amazing. But they are not on the bottom like Vanguards and Power Techs are, I have seen their damage discipline (plasmatech and pyrotech) rivaling damage pulled off by tank classes, and even healers's damage, in sort by damage when warzone ends.

 

Balance and Madness can make to first place sort by damage in warzones, even if you have Commandos and Mercs in the match. But stay away from Telekinetic and Lighting, because their only beauty are sounds and visuals. It will not bring good results.

Edited March 30, 2017 by BoySaber

[Nelsitokiller]

Balance (Sage) or Madness (Sorcerer) can rival Gunnery (Commando) or Arsenal (Mercenary) in 1 on 1 PvP. They do less instant damage and need time to take down the Commando/Arsenal, but they can last longer and are not depended on a long duration DCD that Commando and Mercenary have, in 1 on 1, Balance/Madness wins without much effort because there is enough self off heals, health steals and LOS breaking while still damaging enemy who cannot target you all time. By using environment to your advantage, and knowing your discipline, you can take down Commandos and Mercenaries in 1 on 1. Unfortunately, I cannot say same for Telekinetic (Sage) and Lighting (Sorcerer) because the damage they can pull is too weak and requires not breaking LOS, which makes you a perfect target in light armor with no health steals. By the time you menage to damage them, the cooldown for Commando and Merc best DCD already ended, and they can get back on their feet instantly, while you can't. It is very sad that Telekinetic and Lighting are that low as DPS disciplines, for they visually look amazing. But they are not on the bottom like Vanguards and Power Techs are, I have seen their damage discipline (plasmatech and pyrotech) rivaling damage pulled off by tank classes, and even healers's damage, in sort by damage when warzone ends.

 

Balance and Madness can make to first place sort by damage in warzones, even if you have Commandos and Mercs in the match. But stay away from Telekinetic and Lighting, because their only beauty are sounds and visuals. It will not bring good results.

 

Lightning is acctually better than Madness right now, as Madness i cant 1v1 anything other than other sorcs, Lightning i can 1v1 most things, even Mercs sometimes, as for DPS both specs can do the same dps, Madness doesnt have as much heals as you say, heals from dots at the same as they were at lvl 60, Death Field heals around 1-2k, worthless at 122k hp, and you cant really LOS as half decent merc, and even if you manage to LOS, you can only heal like 50%, also you have to blow most of your DCDs on enet cuz you can mezz them cuz you will have dots on them, only in a map like Rishi or somewhere with ALOT of stuff to LOS you could have some chance.

[verfallen]

Balance (Sage) or Madness (Sorcerer) can rival Gunnery (Commando) or Arsenal (Mercenary) in 1 on 1 PvP. They do less instant damage and need time to take down the Commando/Arsenal, but they can last longer and are not depended on a long duration DCD that Commando and Mercenary have, in 1 on 1, Balance/Madness wins without much effort because there is enough self off heals, health steals and LOS breaking while still damaging enemy who cannot target you all time. By using environment to your advantage, and knowing your discipline, you can take down Commandos and Mercenaries in 1 on 1. Unfortunately, I cannot say same for Telekinetic (Sage) and Lighting (Sorcerer) because the damage they can pull is too weak and requires not breaking LOS, which makes you a perfect target in light armor with no health steals. By the time you menage to damage them, the cooldown for Commando and Merc best DCD already ended, and they can get back on their feet instantly, while you can't. It is very sad that Telekinetic and Lighting are that low as DPS disciplines, for they visually look amazing. But they are not on the bottom like Vanguards and Power Techs are, I have seen their damage discipline (plasmatech and pyrotech) rivaling damage pulled off by tank classes, and even healers's damage, in sort by damage when warzone ends.

 

Balance and Madness can make to first place sort by damage in warzones, even if you have Commandos and Mercs in the match. But stay away from Telekinetic and Lighting, because their only beauty are sounds and visuals. It will not bring good results.

 

Lightning can top off the damage leaderboard easily due to chain lightning, if you were always fighting in the main brawl.

 

As for 1vs1, its currently impossible to win 1vs1 against any good mando/mercs, guaranteed. You can try kiting in the 30/35 range, but it won't be enough. LoSing and letting dots do the job with madness has its pros, but a merc that run cleanse utility reduce that damage by 30%. For the rest, arsenal can resist 5 force effects, a smart merc will line it up for your force leech, or interrupt you. Smart use of their net, cooldowns and stuns can make them hard to kite, and in the end, they don't have to line you up very long to kill you when their burst align.

 

Now BAD mando merc that's another story. Very easy to make them cry for their mama (or their pocket heals) if you know how.

 

Don't forget with 5.0 DoT damage got batnerfed, so the LoS and let them bleed out doesnt work as well, and merc also have their own self-heal to counter a full LoS strategy. In a game of "reset" mercs currently have better tools than you do, and madness ability to self-heal is hampered by force consumption, much more than lightning's.

[DarthRaika]

LoL, for what, showing you are making fake threads and trolling to get your point across. Why should I or anyone else take what you say seriously, youve make personal attacks on me in most threads I've been involved in.

 

Good luck with that, but then I guess you don't care because you've already said in another post that your sub runs out tomorrow and you don't care if they take action against your trolling.

 

Let me just add to the topic.. parsing doesn't represent class potential in pvp

 

Icykill...don't you mainly pvp in mids? I could have you confused with someone else but if you are the person that mostly pvps in mids then you really shouldn't get involved in discussions like this. Not hating, just saying all ranged dps classes are OP in mids (even sorc).

[Purgamentorum]

Sorc needs some help against interrupts and ability pushback, the same way mercheal needs help. And no, you repeating for the thousands time that sorc already has good defense wont help. Mercheal has godlike defense and still struggles. Its the ability to perform under pressure that determines a class strength in pvp the most, and sorc is by far the worst there.

 

Sorry you have that completely wrong. Merc heals have a very good no interrupts utility on supercharge gas cells which they run well over 50% of the time. What makes Mercs worse than sorc heals, is sorcs have slightly better healing figures for burst, sorcs have instant casts by rotation and do not rely on tech overrides, sorc healers have no resource management to worry about they can spam their resource gains, sorcs have phasewalk (guaranteed out of range escape with los) against rocket out (still in range and got caught on a tiny slope in the floor 2m away), sorcs have rescue with 25% defence to target added to it, sorcs have defence bonus on most of their heals, Mercs do no have any defence bonus, Sorcs have god bubble (wins in acid) and enduring bastion, mercs have reflect shield which is not as good (enduring bastion allows casts like reflect shield does, combined length is so much longer then reflect shield, god bubble is a stun break etc), sorcs have 2 stun breaks, I could go on but I'll stop there you should get the picture.

 

Mercs only advantage is 2 aoe heals, and they can ouput damage more easily on than a sorc. However this is still healer like damage much worse than a tank.

 

Under pressure a sorc also has roaming mend which goes off and heals anyone else who needs it, mercs have to cast basic aoes, sorcs relieve pressure with their armor buffs mercs do not have, sorcs produce better hps anyway with a single target heal has their cast while moving, and sorcs have much better defences and escapes.

 

If you want me add to the list I can but I kept it short TL; Didn't Type

[BoySaber]

Lightning is acctually better than Madness right now, as Madness i cant 1v1 anything other than other sorcs, Lightning i can 1v1 most things, even Mercs sometimes, as for DPS both specs can do the same dps, Madness doesnt have as much heals as you say, heals from dots at the same as they were at lvl 60, Death Field heals around 1-2k, worthless at 122k hp, and you cant really LOS as half decent merc, and even if you manage to LOS, you can only heal like 50%, also you have to blow most of your DCDs on enet cuz you can mezz them cuz you will have dots on them, only in a map like Rishi or somewhere with ALOT of stuff to LOS you could have some chance.

 

Lightning can top off the damage leaderboard easily due to chain lightning, if you were always fighting in the main brawl.

 

As for 1vs1, its currently impossible to win 1vs1 against any good mando/mercs, guaranteed. You can try kiting in the 30/35 range, but it won't be enough. LoSing and letting dots do the job with madness has its pros, but a merc that run cleanse utility reduce that damage by 30%. For the rest, arsenal can resist 5 force effects, a smart merc will line it up for your force leech, or interrupt you. Smart use of their net, cooldowns and stuns can make them hard to kite, and in the end, they don't have to line you up very long to kill you when their burst align.

 

Now BAD mando merc that's another story. Very easy to make them cry for their mama (or their pocket heals) if you know how.

 

Don't forget with 5.0 DoT damage got batnerfed, so the LoS and let them bleed out doesnt work as well, and merc also have their own self-heal to counter a full LoS strategy. In a game of "reset" mercs currently have better tools than you do, and madness ability to self-heal is hampered by force consumption, much more than lightning's.

 

I must be really bad at it then, I should check telekinetic/lighting rotations once more to see what am I missing out. Maybe balance/madness is as bad as people claim but I had great time and have nothing to complain about it, bleed them while going behind LOS is still working out for me. I know that Seer/Corruption is great. So the question is what is left to complain about sorcerer if lighting is good (not for me), madness good (for me), corruption is good (for everyone)? Do people just complain because they don't know to play their class (like I don't know for example)?

[Nelsitokiller]

I must be really bad at it then, I should check telekinetic/lighting rotations once more to see what am I missing out. Maybe balance/madness is as bad as people claim but I had great time and have nothing to complain about it, bleed them while going behind LOS is still working out for me. I know that Seer/Corruption is great. So the question is what is left to complain about sorcerer if lighting is good (not for me), madness good (for me), corruption is good (for everyone)? Do people just complain because they don't know to play their class (like I don't know for example)?

 

Lightning nor Madness are good, not even close to good, but Lightning is better than Madness, and i cant talk for everyone here but i do know how to play this class, is my main class been playing it for over 2 years.

[Marstrike]

That feeling you get when a sorc loads into a ranked game?... Ye, that's the same feeling merc's and engi snipers get when ANYONE loads into a ranked game (that's not a merc or engi sniper).

 

That's how bad sorcs are atm. Regardless of HP (gear) they will 9/10 be the initial focus. Most times with my 242 min-max'd combat sentinel I can have them in bubble inside one precision window. Even when they come out from bubble and get the nice heals they are 100% focused on themselves and survival.

 

The game is 3v4 when the join most of the time. Don't get me wrong, I've seen some great sorcs tho.

[verfallen]

I must be really bad at it then, I should check telekinetic/lighting rotations once more to see what am I missing out. Maybe balance/madness is as bad as people claim but I had great time and have nothing to complain about it, bleed them while going behind LOS is still working out for me. I know that Seer/Corruption is great. So the question is what is left to complain about sorcerer if lighting is good (not for me), madness good (for me), corruption is good (for everyone)? Do people just complain because they don't know to play their class (like I don't know for example)?

 

The issues are glaring in arenas and when no heals or tank are on the field.

 

While some people like to cry about sorc in general in this thread, you can see most of their arguments are about sorc heals, they start about sorc in general, but what makes them "too powerful" is eventually heals or effects in the corruption/seer discipline tree.

[Purgamentorum]

I think the issues come form the focus. Sorcs have had it so good for so long people forget that they need to run. Unfortunately for them the big killer is electronet, as designed when both skills where released together, and Merc is fotm. Sorcs put out ok dps and have great kiting skills and escapes. They have to run and hide and use utility defence buffs. I don't think anyone cries they are overpowered but as said in a previous post,

the same feeling merc's and engi snipers get when ANYONE loads into a ranked game (that's not a merc or engi sniper).

.

 

 

Rank will never be balanced. It has three must have classes now. Sniper engineering, Sorc healer, and merc arsenal. So if you rolled PT, Jugg, mara, Op you may as well have turned up with a merc healer at any point in the last 3 years. All that crap you gave them "go learn sorc" it's come back to bite you. Go learn sniper.

[-Bob-]

So have you all come to a conclusion yet?

[verfallen]

So have you all come to a conclusion yet?

 

Roughly:

 

Can work in Regs, crap in Ranked.

[Rion_Starkiller]

They don't need to be number one and that's the last thing I'd want. I hate it when they become FOTM because then I stop playing my fav class. I refuse to play FOTM classes. Mercs went from being a challenge to play to being stupid, no finesse needed or even LoS most of the time.

 

I would just like to see lightning bolt have a bit more burst potential (it doesn't need to be much more) and procs that don't rely on force speed so much. Similar to how it was in 3.0 before they nerfed it.

I'm more interested in solo target burst over AOE burst/damage from chain lightning or Force Storm. Adding Force Storm to the rotation back in 3.0 is what caused that initial burst nerf before Bio realised it was not burst people were complaining about, it was Force Storm being part of the rotation and it had slow as well. They nerfed the wrong thing and then never reversed it when they realised their mistake. Lightning burst has never recovered from that nerf and other burst specs have just got stronger.

 

Fair enough.

[Icykill_]

Icykill...don't you mainly pvp in mids? I could have you confused with someone else but if you are the person that mostly pvps in mids then you really shouldn't get involved in discussions like this. Not hating, just saying all ranged dps classes are OP in mids (even sorc).

 

LoL, I play all lvls.

[merovejec]

Roughly:

 

Can work in Regs, crap in Ranked.

 

Well we have a few dps Sorcs on TRE that are actually very very good.

[Opaknack]

So have you all come to a conclusion yet?

Yes.

The class sage/sorc will be canceled from the game and phase walk will give back to sin/shadow.

[MusicRider]

Returning player again after 8 months more or less this time. TBH 5.x has broken pretty much a lot of "assumptions" about the classes (e.g. facetanking mercs, self-healing snipers, etc.), but anyway on topic. IMO there are different problems with the class between pve and pvp.

 

PVE wise both specs need an overall dps buff, even simple tweaks to the current status quo would do. Easy starting examples, for ling 30% bonus surge as before, shock 50% more damage on mind crush, madness increase deathmarks and duration of crushing darkness, also buff wrathed disturbance, cause with stupid dot-spread what else is left to buff that won't make it OP .

 

Defensively the class can be slippery, however, the nerf to dark heal requires multiple times of casting resulting in a lot of downtime and an empty force bar, and alhtough ling can afford a couple of noble sacrifices and operate at 20-30% force easily madness simply cannot which results in further downtime. The concern of off-healing in arenas is understandable, but sure there must be a way to buff dark heal on self. Also, the nerf to force barrier, particularly in the current meta, pretty much leaves sorcs without an effective antifocus dcd. And new rishi arena tactic seems to be there is enough time to charge the sorc when he goes to put his pw.

 

PS: And yes have played sage/sorc for quite a while despite frequent and long hiatuses. In 4.x cycle I had top sorc/sage parse on TRE before Pan's overtook me ending being the top parse worldwide . Also part of ranked wz team as 25/16 when none played it till it was discovered as 30/16 for those that know what this meant, arenas also had fun t1-2 depending on time dedicated.

Edited March 31, 2017 by MusicRider