Anyone else surprised with how Saresh turned out.

[AhsokaTanorules]

I remember in the beginning she seemed to be portrayed as hard working and wanting to help build the Republic back up. When you go to Taris in the beginning as a Pub she goes on and on about how she wants to rebuild that place. I recall she started to become hostile on Ziost where she came down on Theron for his actions but wasn't that more Theron's fault when he created that experimental group of Jedi soldiers?

 

Then suddenly in Zakuul she is shown to be full blown evil all of a sudden and Bioware is like...oh we need more antagonists so we are just gonna make Saresh bad...ta dah! I am particularly surprised that as a decent man of the Republic that Theron Shan would hate her so much and even celebrate her death.

 

Anyone know the details of how Saresh really went darkside? Is there a secret story to this? Maybe what happened on Empire Taris really angered her seeing all her work undone or is there another deeper reason? Or am I right about Bioware being like ...we ran out of ideas and oh it would seem original in that KOTET CH 2 story if the Empire are actually portrayed as being more the good guys an the Republic as *****s so ::snaps fingers:::

[Estelindis]

I agree with this. Saresh's transition from Taris leader to Republic dictator is very confusing to me. I don't understand why, by the time of the Zakuul story, her opposition to the Alliance Commander is just as strong whether they were a Republic character who helped her on Taris or an Imperial character who undid her work there.

 

Theron's feelings about Saresh are probably because of her ordering the invasion of Ziost, which helped to complete the Emperor's plans, causing untold deaths and returning him to life.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Estelindis

[JLazarillo]

Saresh was always a bit of a jerk, but yeah, she definitely went off the deep end while the Outlander was carbon-napping. I think part of the point was to demonstrate that the Republic wasn't a monolithic "good guy" organization, but having her go from a shrewd, if somewhat ruthless ruler with a serious (and probably somewhat justified) hate-on for the Empire, to a power-grabbing sycophant probably needed a little more gap-filling.

[perotta]

Well, first of all, that Saresh was really competent in one capacity (as a governor of Taris) doesn't mean she's capable of everything. It's one thing to lead the reconstruction effort of one world and lead the whole Republic. Actually, there are first signs of her... let's say, questionable motives, at the end of the Trooper storyline.

 

 

When you finally capture general Rakton - a highly competent and dangerous Imperial - she (a newly appointed Supreme Chancellor) wants to trade him back to the Empire in exchange for Republican prisoners. Her reasoning is that you can't bring back the dead but hey! You can bring back the living prisoners... If you forget about the fact that Rakton, upon returning to the Empire, would just cause even more deaths - something your Trooper can point out. She comes off incompetent at best or caring more about her image and popularity at worst at that particular moment.

 

 

As for Ziost, her chewing out Theron is understandable but her invading the planet without you know, consulting anyone, and ignoring her mole's info on how screwed up the situation is not. She has a reason to hate the Empire, but she is also a leader and has no right to be motivated by petty feelings. And she does come off as petty. "Oh, the Empire is weak. Let's rush headlong into Ziost! Nevermind that there is a freaking Cthulhu driving everyone mad! I know how to fight a war!" Seriously, she chews out her mole and says "don't tell me how to fight a war". Mind telling us where did you learn how to fight a war, Saresh?

 

Now, add five more years. She refuses to surrender to Zakuul - it's perfectly in character for her, but it's also highly unwise. She refuses to surrender her power installing a puppet Chancellor. So no, taking all of the above into account, I wouldn't say I was surprised that she tried to take over the Alliance. She tried to be an opportunist (again) but failed (again). Besides, had she ever shown herself to be a competent leader at any point after Taris? I don't think so.

[RarePorcupine]

I'm not opposed to having Saresh go "bad" but I can't help thinking she would have been way more interesting as a morally gray (or gray-ish) strong leader for the Republic who was still intelligent and capable of making smart decisions even if they weren't necessarily ones the player would agree with.

 

I've been disappointed that they instead basically had her carry the idiot ball post-class stories (and maybe Makeb) and turned her into a one note idiot that always says the wrong thing and makes the wrong decision. Her story in KOTET was a real low point for me, since her plan made little sense and made her look like an idiot more than a plotter or clever person. As perotta says - her failures didn't begin there; it was the culmination of her arc turning her into a boring and repetitive character that basically just existed to butt heads with the player (like Udina from Mass Effect, to some extent).

 

This isn't really limited to Saresh - Bioware seems to have a tough time properly writing the Republic as a "not-perfect-but-trying" democracy and regularly resorts to having the leadership/background NPCs be corrupt, stupid and/or evil to provide an antagonistic presence. The Empire suffers from this as well, though I guess there's a bit more in-universe justification for unstable leadership there.

Edited March 7, 2017 by RarePorcupine

[alricka]

I remember having the impression she's kind of a *itch from the Trooper vanilla storyline. And even in the Taris questline she gave the impression of someone who's hard-working, yes, but also egotistical. If anything I was more surprised that she had the courage to move so boldly against me in the Eternal Empire storyline than the fact that she stopped being a "good guy"; then again, considering I was playing through KOTFE and KOTET as a Sith Warrior, I wasn't THAT shocked by her actions - I imagine that for a Republic Outlander (especially a Jedi) it could be more jarring.

[ThePsyEagle]

I must say, i never felt that she was bad when she tried to take over my alliance (even though she never lived that). I always felt she was doing the best for the republic (from her perspective) and also tried to grab more power. Same on ziost, she was to naive to notice the threat by vitiate and tried to weaken the empire. So I wouldn't say she turned evil or something else, she just wasn't fit for cancelor. So her "transformation" wasn't surprising to me.

[MishaCantu]

On Taris she basically held the workers hostage by not allowing them to leave the planet, even though they were forced to work in rakghoul infested areas. It was, basically, her way of getting things done by any means necessary, so the signs were there from the beginning.

 

She became obsessive about the empire later on, much to the detriment of all, especially on Ziost where she would not even listen to reason concerning the situation there. The signs of her egomania continue to grow throughout the game, so, I was not surprised at all when she tried to take over the alliance.

[TalonVII]

No. the signs were always there, you just never saw them. Saresh was always as Machiavellian as hell. It just became more extreme the longer the war went on.

[SteveTheCynic]

On Taris she basically held the workers hostage by not allowing them to leave the planet, even though they were forced to work in rakghoul infested areas. It was, basically, her way of getting things done by any means necessary, so the signs were there from the beginning.

Prize to Misha. The clues were there right from the beginning, when you first meet her. She tells that guy, "No, you don't have to work, but you'll be in unpaid quarantine for six months if you try to leave," and, "I'm sure you'll make the right decision," meaning that she's sure he'll change his mind and get his crew back on the job.

[OldVengeance]

She was always heading in that direction, but I can see why it might seem jarring for players of Republic characters that she'd gone that far by the time we encounter her for the first time after being frozen in carbonite.

[SithKoriandr]

Prize to Misha. The clues were there right from the beginning, when you first meet her. She tells that guy, "No, you don't have to work, but you'll be in unpaid quarantine for six months if you try to leave," and, "I'm sure you'll make the right decision," meaning that she's sure he'll change his mind and get his crew back on the job.

 

Made me think she may have also been the reason those soldiers were stuck there. Which I was surprised about, since they were there for years with no leave. Saresh likely kept soldiers on the planet.

[Damask_Rose]

Don't forget this "State of the Galaxy" by the Shroud "Asset R-31 was killed while attempting to negotiate the purchase of potentially-incriminating holorecords from Chancellor Saresh’s time on the planet Taris. The seller was also killed. As with past efforts along these lines, GenoHaradan assassins are the most likely culprits."

 

She had something to hide that was worth killing over and long established ties to a guild of assassins.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Bioware sucks at writing politicians.

 

See Mass Effect & Dragon Age for further examples.

[Sarathis]

I think anyone who played through the Trooper storyline got a good glimpse into how power crazy she was becoming. On Taris she used that ambition to good effect. By the time she became head Pub honcho, though, she was already showing signs of moral ambiguity and power madness. She was firmly convinced she knew what was best for the Republic and everyone else was just a tool to be used for her purposes. Her attitude towards the Trooper at the end of Chapter 3 shows that pretty plainly. "You did a good job but step aside and let Mommy make the decisions of what's best for everyone now."

 

I wasn't surprised at all when the story said she was manipulating from behind the scenes after her term ended. It wasn't a big leap to find her grasping at the position of Commander of the Alliance later, nor were her methods of trying to get it or her lack of remorse over it. After all, she was Supreme Chancellor and what were you? Some major in the army SHE funded? Some grubby bounty hunter? A former slave turned Sith Council Member? Clearly she was better suited to command an effort to free the galaxy from tyranny.

[Kaisernick]

Power corrupts

[Zyonz]

The end of the story of Makeb started to show Saresh true colors at being more upset about saving the people of the planet than taking the whole planet under the Republic and gained their aid in fighting the Empire.

[Temprienne]

Pretty much everyone else has hit it regarding Saresh: her character is one you kind of have to follow through the storylines to get the full appreciation for her descent into corruption and dictatorship. And while I haven't played ME or DA so I really can't say much about how Bioware handles politicians, BW's handling of Saresh and the corruption of the Republic is pretty spot on. No, corruption DOESN'T happen overnight and if Saresh had suddenly turned into the moustache-twirling villain (AKA how the Empire and Sith are generally portrayed) with no leading signs, it would have been very disappointing. But the signs with Saresh definitely were there and become especially pronounced in the Makeb and Shadow of Revan arcs.

[Raphael_diSanto]

The end of the story of Makeb started to show Saresh true colors at being more upset about saving the people of the planet than taking the whole planet under the Republic and gained their aid in fighting the Empire.

 

This. People forget that Saresh didn't go from Hard Working Planetary Governor to War Mongering Power Hungry dictator in one instant. While the Trooper story and Ziost are often mentioned with respect to Saresh, people forget how egotistical and uppity she is throughout Makeb, too.

 

We really see Saresh in 5 places throughout the overall storyline:

 

1. Taris: Everyone (assuming they do the planet story) sees her here. She's driven, ambitious, willing to coerce people to do what she thinks is right, but mostly on the side of the angels. She's working to make Taris a beacon for the Republic, and while her "Together, we can achieve" bull hockey makes me puke a little in her throat, it's all very politco-speak and what I'd expect.

 

Then we don't really see anything from her until -

 

2. End of Vanilla - Obviously only BH players truly know why Saresh gets the Chancellorship, but Troopers get to deal with the effects of it. Handing Rakton back is a slap in the face for the work a Light Sided Trooper put in to get him into custody in the first place. Might as well just go DS on that one and shoot the guy before Saresh gets to use him as a puppet. He'd thank you for it too

 

She doesn't show up through any of the Illum stuff - That's all Supreme Commander Rans and his gang, so we don't see her again until -

 

3. Makeb, when she's all pushy about getting Makeb into the Republic and *****y about having to save the citizens. She's mollified somewhat if you either force them to join the war effort, or have previously forced the Hutts to provide support, both of which are decisions that leave her resources free to fight the Empire, which, after all, is her ultimate goal, because if she beats the Empire, she gets to rule the galaxy. (or so she thinks at this time)

 

Makeb is a fairly important milestone in the Saresh progression. It's the first time the populace at large has seen what she's turning into.

 

4. Then we have Ziost, where we see the lengths she'll go to in order to win. That's certainly the start of the souring of her for Theron, but I suspect the stuff that happens during the 5 years, her behind the scenes puppet string-pulling of the Republic is what really flips the switch for him. After all, it's during this time that he leaves the SIS.

 

5. Finally, the attempted assassination of the Outlander really is the final straw. She wants the Alliance, it's the new Big Dog on the scene, and in her mind, she's perfectly justified in doing whatever it takes to gain control over it. She's Saresh, she knows what's right for everyone, even if they don't know it themselves. Especially if they don't know it themselves.

 

By now she's really become a classic megalomaniac - utterly convinced of her own destiny and the rightness of her cause. She remains unrepentant to the end.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Raphael_diSanto

[Xilizhra]

What's funny is that my Sith Inquisitor actually rather likes Saresh, or at least is able to empathize with her; Saresh is a lot like her, being a Twi'lek slave of the Empire who possesses burning ambition, except without any Force powers. Bereft of an Imperial power structure to work her way through, Saresh was forced to do so with the Republic, and my Inquisitor wouldn't hold Saresh's vendetta against the Empire against her.

[BlazeTomahawk]

The end of the story of Makeb started to show Saresh true colors at being more upset about saving the people of the planet than taking the whole planet under the Republic and gained their aid in fighting the Empire.

 

I was just thinking that everyone on this pos had skipped RotHC. She definetly had a turn there

[TalonVII]

This. People forget that Saresh didn't go from Hard Working Planetary Governor to War Mongering Power Hungry dictator in one instant. While the Trooper story and Ziost are often mentioned with respect to Saresh, people forget how egotistical and uppity she is throughout Makeb, too.

 

We really see Saresh in 5 places throughout the overall storyline:

 

1. Taris: Everyone (assuming they do the planet story) sees her here. She's driven, ambitious, willing to coerce people to do what she thinks is right, but mostly on the side of the angels. She's working to make Taris a beacon for the Republic, and while her "Together, we can achieve" bull hockey makes me puke a little in her throat, it's all very politco-speak and what I'd expect.

 

Then we don't really see anything from her until -

 

2. End of Vanilla - Obviously only BH players truly know why Saresh gets the Chancellorship, but Troopers get to deal with the effects of it. Handing Rakton back is a slap in the face for the work a Light Sided Trooper put in to get him into custody in the first place. Might as well just go DS on that one and shoot the guy before Saresh gets to use him as a puppet. He'd thank you for it too

 

She doesn't show up through any of the Illum stuff - That's all Supreme Commander Rans and his gang, so we don't see her again until -

 

3. Makeb, when she's all pushy about getting Makeb into the Republic and *****y about having to save the citizens. She's mollified somewhat if you either force them to join the war effort, or have previously forced the Hutts to provide support, both of which are decisions that leave her resources free to fight the Empire, which, after all, is her ultimate goal, because if she beats the Empire, she gets to rule the galaxy. (or so she thinks at this time)

 

Makeb is a fairly important milestone in the Saresh progression. It's the first time the populace at large has seen what she's turning into.

 

4. Then we have Ziost, where we see the lengths she'll go to in order to win. That's certainly the start of the souring of her for Theron, but I suspect the stuff that happens during the 5 years, her behind the scenes puppet string-pulling of the Republic is what really flips the switch for him. After all, it's during this time that he leaves the SIS.

 

5. Finally, the attempted assassination of the Outlander really is the final straw. She wants the Alliance, it's the new Big Dog on the scene, and in her mind, she's perfectly justified in doing whatever it takes to gain control over it. She's Saresh, she knows what's right for everyone, even if they don't know it themselves. Especially if they don't know it themselves.

 

By now she's really become a classic megalomaniac - utterly convinced of her own destiny and the rightness of her cause. She remains unrepentant to the end.

 

Know what the sad part is. And this will forever get me hounded. But know who she sounds like so far in the early stages?

 

 

Michelle Obama. Yes I went there.

 

[Thepyrethatburns]

This. People forget that Saresh didn't go from Hard Working Planetary Governor to War Mongering Power Hungry dictator in one instant. While the Trooper story and Ziost are often mentioned with respect to Saresh, people forget how egotistical and uppity she is throughout Makeb, too.

 

We really see Saresh in 5 places throughout the overall storyline:

 

1. Taris: Everyone (assuming they do the planet story) sees her here. She's driven, ambitious, willing to coerce people to do what she thinks is right, but mostly on the side of the angels. She's working to make Taris a beacon for the Republic, and while her "Together, we can achieve" bull hockey makes me puke a little in her throat, it's all very politco-speak and what I'd expect.

 

Then we don't really see anything from her until -

 

2. End of Vanilla - Obviously only BH players truly know why Saresh gets the Chancellorship, but Troopers get to deal with the effects of it. Handing Rakton back is a slap in the face for the work a Light Sided Trooper put in to get him into custody in the first place. Might as well just go DS on that one and shoot the guy before Saresh gets to use him as a puppet. He'd thank you for it too

 

She doesn't show up through any of the Illum stuff - That's all Supreme Commander Rans and his gang, so we don't see her again until -

 

3. Makeb, when she's all pushy about getting Makeb into the Republic and *****y about having to save the citizens. She's mollified somewhat if you either force them to join the war effort, or have previously forced the Hutts to provide support, both of which are decisions that leave her resources free to fight the Empire, which, after all, is her ultimate goal, because if she beats the Empire, she gets to rule the galaxy. (or so she thinks at this time)

 

Makeb is a fairly important milestone in the Saresh progression. It's the first time the populace at large has seen what she's turning into.

 

4. Then we have Ziost, where we see the lengths she'll go to in order to win. That's certainly the start of the souring of her for Theron, but I suspect the stuff that happens during the 5 years, her behind the scenes puppet string-pulling of the Republic is what really flips the switch for him. After all, it's during this time that he leaves the SIS.

 

5. Finally, the attempted assassination of the Outlander really is the final straw. She wants the Alliance, it's the new Big Dog on the scene, and in her mind, she's perfectly justified in doing whatever it takes to gain control over it. She's Saresh, she knows what's right for everyone, even if they don't know it themselves. Especially if they don't know it themselves.

 

By now she's really become a classic megalomaniac - utterly convinced of her own destiny and the rightness of her cause. She remains unrepentant to the end.

 

Good post but you forgot the Republic Operation for Scum and Villainy.

 

 

For those who can't spare the 2:28, we have Saresh telling your character "Hi, I'm using the GenoHaradan who are, at the very least, a personal Black Ops unit". Then you get a lore entry that says "Yeah, they're totally evil." At the very least, that should have given people a hint that there was a lot of ruthless behind that smile.

[The_Lost_Bean]

My Jedi is full LS V so I didn't kill her, but my confused am-I-evil-or-am-I-redeeming-myself sithkills her.

 

But yes, I'm also confused on her character. I just finished the Consular story and it kinda seems like she was turning it around even before RoTHC.

Edited March 21, 2017 by The_Lost_Bean

[RarePorcupine]

I disagree with the idea that Saresh is evil or wrong during Makeb - from her point of view, the Republic has diverted significant resources during a time of war based on incomplete and misleading information from Shalim Avesta. She's mollified by you claiming Makeb as a Republic member and getting the Hutt alliance (tenuous as it is) because it at least balances out the costs of the operation when those ships/soldiers/whatever could have been used elsewhere.

 

She seems pretty practical then, if not necessarily nice (i.e. simply being glad to help).

 

It's the Scum and Villainy stuff that is the bigger red flag and she's obviously pretty far gone (to the point of stupidity) with Ziost.

Edited March 21, 2017 by RarePorcupine