Non Force Users in the SWTOR story?

[geekrocker]

I've been an extremely casual player for a year now, and I just subbed and I'm gonna start actually leveling characters. I was curious, do non-force sensitives (smugglers in particular) fit in well with the storylines that this game has? Eternal Throne and everything seems SUPER force-centric in plot, and I was wondering if it feels kinda inorganic.

[SithKoriandr]

I didn't think it fit the Smuggler at all in the grand scheme of the story line, however, just a mission or two feels okay.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Up until KOTFE, yes.

 

After? No, not at all. The non force users feel out of place in KOTFE and KOTET, particularly the Bounty Hunter and Smuggler.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Aeneas_Falco

[Storm-Cutter]

IA feels kinda fish-out-of-water as well. As an agent of the empire, working behind the scenes and doing some pretty dirty work, they're suddenly the galactic hero on everybody's lips? Don't think so.

 

It's like making the chief maintenance guy at your company the Head of the United Nations, coz he cleared a few blocked drains and uncovered a sinister toilet paper buying conspiracy.

 

Trooper was the same. Rambo? Chief of the galaxy? No.

Bounty hunter the same... Would you let a cold-blooded killer loose with the power of empires?

I can see the smuggler doing it for the lols, maybe the Heist chapter..... But otherwise not really.

 

There's one epic tale to fit eight radically and ideologically different classes. They blew all the budget on snazzy trailers and failed to hire anyone who could actually write one decent story.... When actually eight were required.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Storm-Cutter

[Valceanu]

i dunno... i thought it was ok for my IA so far having played through KotFE and halfway through KotET... it kinda makes sense given where you start KotFE and what transpires at the very beggining...

[Rankyn]

You're not just some street-dwelling grunt, you're a natural leader and an honest to god galactic hero.

You've also been touched by an awesomely powerful force user who has specifically imbued you with a little bit of his power.

It's not really much of a stretch.

[Valceanu]

You're not just some street-dwelling grunt, you're a natural leader and an honest to god galactic hero.

You've also been touched by an awesomely powerful force user who has specifically imbued you with a little bit of his power.

It's not really much of a stretch.

 

yup...exactly this... due to previous acomplishments you cant exactly expect to remain some anonimous grunt and due to said force user it makes sense that you would be imbued with some sort of connection no?!

[Storm-Cutter]

As I recall the IA starts off running minor errands for the empire on a dog's-*** of a world like Hutta. - If there's a bright centre to the universe, Hutta is pretty far from that.

 

Question is, would you want someone like me to rule a mainly civilised galaxy?

 

I have killed 100s if not thousands. Sacrificed dozens for the cause. Cheated, lied and betrayed for the Empire. Killed my own people while under the influence of some shady fifth-columnists. I have had petty criminals begging me for mercy and a second chance at going straight, and I put a blaster bolt into their head. I've slaughtered Sith and Jedi alike, my refusal to kneel before Valkorian got Darth Marr killed... Got married only to get he job done, then dumped my spouse.

 

I sound more like a crazed dictator than a sane, rational trustworthy person.

 

-And if I was so special.... funny how little of that was even hinted at in the first 60-odd levels.

 

Sloppy & cheap writing. Nothing more.

[Valceanu]

As I recall the IA starts off running minor errands for the empire on a dog's-*** of a world like Hutta. - If there's a bright centre to the universe, Hutta is pretty far from that.

 

Question is, would you want someone like me to rule a mainly civilised galaxy?

 

I have killed 100s if not thousands. Sacrificed dozens for the cause. Cheated, lied and betrayed for the Empire. Killed my own people while under the influence of some shady fifth-columnists. I have had petty criminals begging me for mercy and a second chance at going straight, and I put a blaster bolt into their head. I've slaughtered Sith and Jedi alike, my refusal to kneel before Valkorian got Darth Marr killed... Got married only to get he job done, then dumped my spouse.

 

I sound more like a crazed dictator than a sane, rational trustworthy person.

 

-And if I was so special.... funny how little of that was even hinted at in the first 60-odd levels.

 

Sloppy & cheap writing. Nothing more.

 

see my IA-sniper became THE HAND OF JADUS. I helped a dark lord take back a position of power, even more then he previously had in fact. My agent is all about what makes the Empire stronger... whether it means stealing the secrets of the Star Cabal having various criminal groups in the employ of the Empire etc etc. He makes decisions that are calculated for maximum benefit to the Empire... they are not emotional, they are military and cynical in nature. He literally shaped the fate of the galaxy stoping the plot of the Star Cabal and then Revan. He is all about efficiency... and hes made a name for himself as a formidable opponent even to force users.

 

Also...darth marr got killed cause HE refused to bow not cause YOU refused to bow. Though my agent also refused to bow himself and took the shot that killed the emperor (remember he was the Hand of Jadus and believed the old emperor was leading the Empire astray) ... and in doing so got imbued with some of his power... and he is fine with using that power if it will help him further the Empire. If that means stopping the Eternal Empire so be it... If that means being someone eveyone can follow and get behind he will play that role to perfection... ultimately, he will pledge the Alliance to the Empire's goals (as apparently we will be able to chose come the next batch of content)... but thats just my agent...

Edited February 27, 2017 by Valceanu

[Battilea]

Question is, would you want someone like me to rule a mainly civilised galaxy?

It's a nice list of bad stuff you've done, but one simple question: What does most of that have to do with being an agent?

 

Pretty much all of those things are done by dark side paths of the other Imperial classes. And if you swap out serving the Empire for serving the Republic, then for the Pubs as well. The game pretty much defines the dark siders as being lying, backstabbing, self-serving, tantrum-throwing, murderous scum, regardless of class. The agent isn't special.

 

Furthermore, while you were that, my agent wasn't. He's a dedicated servant of the Empire, doing what must done. He makes light choices some of the time, dark choices at others, but neither side dominated his actions. He got promoted throughout his career, and while his career did go in the tank at the end of the original story, he still did what was right. And at the start of Makeb, his reputation led to him being brought back into the fold, and not only that, but with a promotion to boot. All of it as an alien in the Empire. He manages to keep not one, but two psycho-killers in check. He bases his decisions on intel, rather than feelings, and often follows the advice of people who know more about the subject than he does. And so on. One could do a lot worse than having him in charge.

 

It isn't the class, in other words. It's the choices you made with your character that make yours unfit to rule.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Battilea

[RunningJester]

All the characters had the force guiding them as they went.

 

Think about the Smuggler, started off as an loser on a backwater planet that lost his/her ship and ends up ruling the underworld. Along the way you have defeated Jedi, Sith, Moths, and more. This is not some two bit crook by the time you hit KOTFE

[geekrocker]

 

Question is, would you want someone like me to rule a mainly civilised galaxy?

 

 

Not really, but isn't that the point of personalized stories that Bioware does? You wouldn't want me making a lot of the choices I do I'm sure, but you'll never see any of them, so does it matter?

[JediQuaker]

I was curious, do non-force sensitives (smugglers in particular) fit in well with the storylines that this game has?

I'm not someone who is overly concerned with story details, but I haven't noticed any particular anomalies with the storylines of any of my characters (which includes 2 Gunslingers).

[Tsillah]

The original core story line has a story for each character class that fits your class. It's perfectly fine there and there are some really great stories in there. Ilum is the last part that is the same for each class and is it's class neutral. It's treated as main story but it was really more meant to introduce endgame as it had the first daily area and introduced two flash points (battle for ilum and the false emperor), which really were more like mini operations than flash points as they were quite lengthy for flash points.

 

Then in the Hutt Cartel story you go to Makeb and we are left with just two stories...one for each faction. Personally I am convinced that this is the planetary story that was promoted to main story as the class stories were abandoned after the game almost fell flat on its face. As such, the faction stories are class neutral and are perfectly fine to do as non-force users. In fact, in a way I'd say it favours the non-force users a bit more in my view.

 

Than Shadow of Revan. This drops even the two faction stories and goes into a single story line which starts with a prelude that includes multiple flash points and then goes on as a story that is already much more force user oriented. It wasn't as blatant yet, but I feel that already SoR, when it comes to Yavin, was already very much force user oriented.

 

Then KotFE and KotET, although having a few chapters that are more neutral, are very much force stories. Here the final nail is put in the coffin of the tech class story experience.

 

I am sure some people can make it work in their minds but it really focuses on force users and in particular the jedi knight.

 

I think that when you look at the story from start to finish the best class to play in the Jedi knight as a consequence. Other classes, particularly the tech classes lose coherency story wise as the story progresses.

 

As a sidenote, the Flash Points I mentioned are story related and as such are all soloable, in case you were wondering.

[Lium]

To answer you, OP, no. Non-Force users feel completely out of place for everything after SoR. And even SoR is pushing it, but the presence of Theron, Shae and that wookie with the broken droid make non-Force users feel like part of the team.

 

In KOTFE and KOTET it borders on the absurd. Someone like Arcann and especially Vaylin would kill my smuggler and trooper with barely a thought. And I love my smuggler and trooper.

[ValeGreiger]

Regarding ruling the galaxy, ymmv depending on how you played and felt with your classes.

 

As non-force user, even objectively its out of place. The story is so force-centric it often gives the impression that it was originally made for the jedi knight but later down the line, retrofitted for every class.

[Rion_Starkiller]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force-sensitive

 

Non-force classes are at least force sensitive... which means they subconsciously manipulate the force, but have no formal training. To me, this is explains the incredible luck of the smuggler scoundrel.

[Ralei]

Everything is fine till you get to Kotfe.

 

I think you've got to be one of two people to make it work.

 

1) the type of person that puts work into their character's story and likes to head canon the inconsistencies presented by BioWare. On it's face, the smuggler has no business being the Outlander and going up against all powerful force users is just absurd. You really need to create your own reality where the Sith warrior and jedi knight, for example, do not exist, and that's why the Emperor thinks you're special etc. etc. etc.

 

2) Just don't think too deeply about it. Enjoy the story for what it's worth - killing or saving the people who betray you, romance the characters you like, and just roll with weird force gobbledygook like chapter 12 and flirt as much as you can with Satele.

[Kurj]

You're not just some street-dwelling grunt, you're a natural leader and an honest to god galactic hero.

You've also been touched by an awesomely powerful force user who has specifically imbued you with a little bit of his power.

It's not really much of a stretch.

 

That's how I looked at it too. I think of it like Robert Jordan's concept of ta'varen in the Wheel of Time series: people who, whether they have "magical talents" or not, are touched by the hand of fate to such an extent that they drive the course of history.

 

Would it have been cool if they had modified some of the dialogue/scenes to a greater extent to play up to individual classes? Of course it would have, but I don't think any game developer is going to go for a repeat of the development costs to release the original class stories in this game.

[Lium]

That's how I looked at it too. I think of it like Robert Jordan's concept of ta'varen in the Wheel of Time series: people who, whether they have "magical talents" or not, are touched by the hand of fate to such an extent that they drive the course of history.

 

Would it have been cool if they had modified some of the dialogue/scenes to a greater extent to play up to individual classes? Of course it would have, but I don't think any game developer is going to go for a repeat of the development costs to release the original class stories in this game.

The problem with this is that the antagonists are so overpowered. A non-Force user simply wouldn't stand a chance. Even in a fantasy setting. The bad guys we face aren't standard Jedi and Sith that we encountered while leveling. These are the emperor's biological children. The only thing that could stand against Arcann and Vaylin would be a full Jedi Master or Sith Lord. Imagine what would happen if Han Solo went up against Darth Sidious.

 

The only time I saw a non-Force user plausibly defeat a Jedi was in the agent story.

 

 

When you fight Ardun Kothe he deflects all of your blaster shots with his lightsaber, so you instead shoot a panel that activates a wall that traps Ardun inside with these big guns aimed at him. When you see the guns fire you know he's been blown apart.

 

 

That's how it's done. It was a well choreographed fight with a plausible outcome. Going up against Vaylin with a blaster is like shouting "BANG!" with a toy gun.

[Oglen]

Absolutely!

I've been an extremely casual player for a year now, and I just subbed and I'm gonna start actually leveling characters. I was curious, do non-force sensitives (smugglers in particular) fit in well with the storylines that this game has? Eternal Throne and everything seems SUPER force-centric in plot, and I was wondering if it feels kinda inorganic.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Regarding ruling the galaxy, ymmv depending on how you played and felt with your classes.

 

As non-force user, even objectively its out of place. The story is so force-centric it often gives the impression that it was originally made for the jedi knight but later down the line, retrofitted for every class.

 

I think that's exactly what happened.

 

Vitiate was the Jedi Knight's nemesis in the old class stories. I think what happened is that after class stories were dropped in the wake of SWTOR's disastrous release (and a round of layoffs), the arc that was originally planned for the Jedi Knight was altered and applied to everyone post-SoR.

 

Dialogue with Scourge during the class story even hints at it. Scourge talks of seeing visions of the Jedi Knight destroying Vitiate, which is why he enlists with the Jedi Knight in the first place.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Aeneas_Falco

[Kurj]

The problem with this is that the antagonists are so overpowered. A non-Force user simply wouldn't stand a chance. Even in a fantasy setting. The bad guys we face aren't standard Jedi and Sith that we encountered while leveling. These are the emperor's biological children. The only thing that could stand against Arcann and Vaylin would be a full Jedi Master or Sith Lord. Imagine what would happen if Han Solo went up against Darth Sidious.

 

The only time I saw a non-Force user plausibly defeat a Jedi was in the agent story.

 

 

When you fight Ardun Kothe he deflects all of your blaster shots with his lightsaber, so you instead shoot a panel that activates a wall that traps Ardun inside with these big guns aimed at him. When you see the guns fire you know he's been blown apart.

 

 

That's how it's done. It was a well choreographed fight with a plausible outcome. Going up against Vaylin with a blaster is like shouting "BANG!" with a toy gun.

 

I totally understand what you're saying, but I think that you're under Valkorion's protection from the beginning of KotFE Ch 1 forward, because he wants to preserve you so he can possess you. He picked you, regardless of force ability, because you're a trusted hero of both the republic and empire, and if he can just take over your body, he can control republic, empire and zakuul without much effort. I admit, it requires a lot of suspension of disbelief, and the story only really works for the knight class. But that's how I made lemonade out of lemons on my other toons.

 

And as to the agent storyline's handling of that issue: no argument there, if they could have worked this out in a similar fashion for non-force users, it would have been better than what they did.

[Battilea]

Imagine what would happen if Han Solo went up against Darth Sidious.

Well, as far as that goes, Force Power potential-wise, Vader tops Sidious, and Han Solo is one of two against him (beat him in A New Hope with an indirect attack, lost in Empire). And Jango felt confident enough to try Windu, who beat Sidious. Now, sure, Jango lost that fight, but he was also solo, which the player isn't. The player's got someone along who is almost as good as he is. So it'd be more like if Jango and Han tried Sidious. And not just a regular Han, but one with a lot more experience fighting force-users (because your character has fought a lot, by that point).

 

That changes things, as force users do need to concentrate to use their nastier abilities, and the ones they can fire off quicker (like force lightning) are not as lethal and/or are easier to avoid. Which is why Jedi tend to pull out lightsabers so often. It's an effective offensive/defensive weapon that just lets them go with the flow, to be in the moment, rather than requiring concentration to use.

 

That said, obviously storylines tailored to each specific class would have been far better.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Battilea

[Valceanu]

The Hand of Jadus isn't some scrub boys...lol. Seriously though my sniper could take out any force user with his trusty sniper rifle from miles away... That game mechanics won't allow for that is another issue... But if it were a story that's certainly how i imagine him approaching it... lol Edited February 27, 2017 by Valceanu