100 new Galactic Command levels and exciting new gear rewards, on the way!

[Tsillah]

I think they were expecting people to treat new content (chapters, uprisings) and re-incentivized content (GSF, PvP) as a sufficient reason to reach T3 gear without it being considered a grind, and rather more of a reward. Which obviously didn't turn out the way they hoped.

 

The point of these level-cap/gear-cap increases in MMO's is basically "there's fun stuff we want you to spend your time on, here's your incentive to get into it".

 

Why are more levels an incentive if all they do is get in the way? Currently there are many more levels where you don't get new skills or utilities making those levels feel pointless. If there is new content I'd gladly go there because it's new content, I don't need new levels to gate that content to feel an incentive to do this new content. I just don't see any positives in it. If we actually got more skills for example then you could say ok, that's cool, but they add one skill if you're lucky add 5 levels and respace the levels with regards to when you get the same skills +1.

 

And yeah, it didn't work out, but they already know this. And yet they continue like this even though it doesn't work. I guess there I also don't see how it could be a good idea to add insult to injury as the saying goes.

[Eli_Porter]

Why are more levels an incentive if all they do is get in the way? Currently there are many more levels where you don't get new skills or utilities making those levels feel pointless. If there is new content I'd gladly go there because it's new content, I don't need new levels to gate that content to feel an incentive to do this new content. I just don't see any positives in it. If we actually got more skills for example then you could say ok, that's cool, but they add one skill if you're lucky add 5 levels and respace the levels with regards to when you get the same skills +1.

 

And yeah, it didn't work out, but they already know this. And yet they continue like this even though it doesn't work. I guess there I also don't see how it could be a good idea to add insult to injury as the saying goes.

 

What you describe, the lack of new skills and the extra time to level characters is one of the reasons I think they went with GC over a level cap increase. GC also doesn't require you to level all your alts every time, and can be bypassed by obtaining the gear through other means.

 

Would I personally try new content without there being an incentive? I'd like to say that I would, but if I already had max gear and the rewards for it were underwhelming then I honestly can't say for sure. Part of the reason to play games isn't just the gameplay, it's also about progress. Especially in MMO's.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Sarova]

I think someone at EAware needs their meds adjusting and/or some education on when it is appropriate to use the word "exciting". If they were announcing a return to the crystal system, that would be classed as exciting. If they were announcing more missing companion returns that would be also be exciting. 100 more command levels with "new gear rewards" is not exciting in any way; its unsub worthy for many and worthy of being ignored by the rest.

EAware needs to count themselves lucky that those of us with a Quinn or Dorne fetish will stay subbed for 5.2. The HK-55 themed rewards scheme is looking like a stroke of genius compared with the GC/CXP fail.

[yeldarbnotned]

Yeah... after they finally did the crafting update in 4.x My main settled in to essentially full 220s, and my alts were all in 212s, save one. Today, in 5.x, my main and two alts are now in full 240s+augments, and my other many alts are all in 228-234s-with full augments (there is simply no reason to expend more effort or resources for these alts). 5.x was definitely faster for me, and I credit a group effort in our guild to work the crafting channel of gearing rather then GC for doing this much faster in 5.x. Now, as I GC levels come from just doing what I want to do in game, I do sometimes get something that is a modes upgrade and when I do I use it. But mostly I just disintegrate the items from crates which just moves the GC level along a bit further.

 

I do enjoy being able to ignore GC unless/until such time as the studio realizes they fouled it up massively and make needed changes to make it match what they said it would be before launch.

 

I really wish more guilds were capable of doing this. Or, I wish had the schematics, credits, and resources to do it myself. I would love handing out 240 mods to help players and end the misery of this system until hopefully next expansion.

 

If everyone could do this, we could all ignore Galactic Command and end this Abomination!

[Quraswren]

Um.. dude.. stop putting words in my mouth. I have never said GC was good, working as it should, or any other fantasy message you want to ascribe to me. It's actually pretty terrible as it currently stands, and there are little signs of it getting much better.

 

Which begs the question.. is it the only source for good gear for end game in 5.x? And the answer to that is no.... it's not. But gear access changes in MMOs can and do traumatize some MMO players.. regardless of the MMO... so.. yeah... some players bypass it and others choose to become victims of it.

 

Then thats where your conversation should end because GC is for doing everything and is for everyone.

 

You can argue crafting which you can bet many cannot afford and cannot get the mats to gear out one entire toon even in the long haul of grinding content. Same goes for PVP.

 

You're trying to make some argument that well if you don't like something just do the other as if it was something everyone could do as easily as GC. It is not.

 

It doesn't matter if Gc isn't the only way to gear. It's they way bw created that can net everyone but as most have said. It sucks so there was no need to add another 100 levels to grind and the frustration for it being extended, no matter what alternate ways might be out there that have much more limited access to matters in the long run. Crafting is not soemthing eveyrone can do nor is PVP something everyone wants to do. Those options being present doesn't suddenly make GC any better.

 

There not being victems to a crappy GC system when that is the only way for them to gear if they cannot afford to get the mats, are not lucky enough to get mats or hate PVP.

 

In this thread, I simply pointed out that adding more levels to GC in no way made anything better or worse with respect to GC as a system. It is as bad today as it was in November as far as I am concerned. No more and no less.

 

To which I disagree. Any extension to GC was a mistake given the feedback. The dislike of the grind, the massive RNG BS combined with how bad the loot tables are. Adding another Tier is more garbage to an already garbage system. There isn't enough tweaks bw could do to remove the negativity GC has brought with it.

 

More levels added indicates only one thing ---> they have no plans to scrap the system and revert to 4.x or 3.x, etc. But the actual additional levels in no way changes any of the dynamics of GC for players whatsoever... unless a player sees leveling GC as some form of completionist or mandatory game activity for the player. But I see little signs of any players leveling GC for the sake of leveling GC. Players chase it for the gear it might drop, rather then look for more deliberate channels that give higher assurance of a player getting what is useful and wanted by them.

 

I'm sure they have no plans to get rid of GC. It's their carrot on a stick given the massive lack of new, interesting content. Got to figure out a way to get players to re-run the content thats 2-5 years old. Players are leveling GC because they want gear for doing any content. Not wanting to be funneled into specific content. Has nothing to do with completionist for most I would wager. It's the chase of the gear. bws terrible design and then the new extension of that terrible design should get all the negativity it can because the other alternatives are not open to being able to play whatever content you want or cost more than most can afford.

 

Just the idea that bw would extend an already terrible system shows their incompetence in game design and development and it's no wonder so many leave this game.

 

As I've said, bw is like the evil genie. Sure they heard your wish but they do all they can to warp it into something you didn't ask for and to the point you wish you had not tried at all.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Quraswren

[Stellarcrusade]

ITS OFFICIAL: Delete your alts now, you'll never even reach max level on one character, so you'll never play any other characters..

[GalacticKegger]

GC.. you appear to be getting more and more bitter every day. What purpose is this serving you? [That is a sincere question.]

For me personally, my purpose is to join my fellow long-standing veterans and stay in Bioware's face until they give us our MMO back. Futile? Quite likely. But then, we did force them into 4 CYA damage control livestreams within 8 weeks of 5.0's release. So we have their attention. They just aren't listening to anything other than what they want to hear. Which is where any increase in my frustration starts.

 

I deplore the GC system as they implemented it, but rather then let it define my game enjoyment.... I, like my guild mates, and others who play the game have simply chosen to disregard it and pursue gearing a different way. I'm certainly not going to let one poor system drive me to bitterness and hate about a game I enjoy for many other reasons. Treating GC as simply the occasional bonus prize to open, which may have something useful... really does take the bite out of it's imperfections for anyone willing to actually take a different approach to it.

Thank you for your candor. But nothing takes the bite out of this GC's imperfections because the system is shoddy, painful and pervasive. I came back after a year to join the few active guildmates left in the hopes that BWA's January 26th livestream would tell us they were actually fixing the game instead of putting more lipstick on the pig. Now we're stuck with an even uglier pig.

 

Me, my wife and our Ops leader are the only ones who have logged in since that livestream. And for the overwhelming majority of our guild's 93 accounts nothing short of rebooting the game back to its true MMORPG roots ... when groups could level through an expansion's story together ... before everything was level sync'd and bolstered to make recycled content "relevant again" ... when progression meant conquering tiers of content difficulty and gear was simply what we earned as we got better ... will bring them back. 2 out of 93 people (2.2% ... my wife and our Ops leader) consider the Star Wars IP to be reason enough to put up with what BWA has done to this game. The other 97.8% are playing other MMOs that haven't been butchered, waiting for Bioware to remove their heads from their collective asses. Apathy is the only reason their voices are not joining mine. Me? I have 8 days left and am stuck in a quandary.

 

In some ways, the boost the poor implementation of GC has given to crafting is a welcome and refreshing shift. It's nice to see crafting return as a fundamental contributor to end game once again... after it was largely neutered by the easy gearing gravy train of some past expansions in SWTOR. That does NOT excuse the poor implementation of GC in any way... but it is worthy of noting and embracing.

Crafting went south when 4.0 added an additional component crafting layer to the schematics. So now what we have is a crafting time sink grind to offset GC's gear acquisition time sink grind. Terrific.

 

Which brings me to the fundamental problem with this whole mess: instead of improved & specialized playing skill leading to improved & specialized game play which leads to improved, specialized & farmable gear being the means - and progression through tiers of new and increasingly difficult content being the end ... Bioware made a promiscuous Galactic Command system the means and lottery crate gear acquisition the end.

 

We are being strung out for as long as they can get away with it. With an increasing number of players abstaining from the koolaid combined with BWA's narcissistic approach to their customers' needs, I don't see how this ends well.

Edited February 27, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Khaleijo]

Except it's not as extremely absolute as you portray it.

 

Actually, there are many things we have in game today (that were missing at launch and afterwards) that are the direct result of player feedback.

 

But it is also true that some player feedback has NOT resulted in some things being done by the studio over the years.

 

I'm NOT defending their choices on GC implementation. Far from it. Anyone that actually reads my comments since 5.0 went live knows I think they released GC very poorly, and that they have been exceedingly slow and "in a bubble" about any improvements they have made. At the same time, there are ways to progress gearing effectively in 5.x without feeling enslaved to the choices of the studio with respect to GC implementation. It's an MMO.. MMOs by definition provide implementations and challenges that actually do require out of the box thinking by players sometimes. Stay in the box drawn by the studio if you wish.. but you are not serving your interests in doing so.

 

I don't deny that there were changes due to player feedback, in fact concernig QoL for example, there were a lot.

 

But you were wondering why no one seems to argue about class set bonus, only about GC.

On that front, there is just wide spread apathy for quite some time, because feedback on that just never changed anything.

Or are you able to name an event when player feedback concerning the sets bonus or class changes had any impact in a timely fashion?

[Edyn]

If I'm the developer of a product or service and and decide to make a fundamental change to that product or service, I would absolutely want to know what my current customers have an issue with if I want to continue to receive their money. I would welcome complaints as I believe my customers have the absolute right to communicate why they are unhappy my product or service, especially if I make a fundamental change. It is then my duty to analyze the complaints and take appropriate action in order to keep my customers' revenue while still maintaining the integrity and vision of my company.

 

BW has done this and have ultimately decided to double down on their GC system, confirming that it's here to stay, and this is proven by them adding them 100 more Command Levels. This curious decision makes me ask the following questions:

 

Who are these people that BW is listening to that think the GC system is more simple, exciting and thrilling than the previous system, and thus should be expanded upon?

Personally, I have yet to meet anyone ingame or out in the online community who believes this. I know that there are people out there that defend BW's right to run the game the way they want, which is fine, but that's not what I'm talking about. I want to know how many people honestly believe GC is better for the players than pre-GC. Once I find that out, I'd then like to know what their preferred brand of glue is to sniff.

 

Why is BW catering to what appears to be the minority?

There's only one reason I can think of: revenue. Perhaps their metrics show that these players are the GM whale$ that do nothing but open RNG crates all day and when they finally get what they want out of the latest CM crates, they need something to do before the next CM crates are released... and so, GC.

 

Do these players even exist or is BW disregarding all player feedback that conflicts with their ideological vision of GC and/or ego? Very possible, especially when you take ego into account in that the "idea guy" may not want to admit that this fundamental game change was a failure and no matter what spin they put on it, they still can't seem to sell it to players. Personally, I don't even believe that BW believes this system is more simple, exciting and trilling. I've worked with enough people over the years in business that I get the impression here that this is all nothing but spin... that BW is knowingly showing me a piece Bantha poodoo and telling me it's a Kyber Crystal.

 

As I run all these questions through my head, each answer ultimately leads to one dark place: it's done - GC is here to stay. Whether they're just catering to a very niche playerba$e while leaving the rest of the players, long term or not, to either "deal with it" or unsubscribe," or they may just not be making logical decisions for whatever reasons (ego, ideological vision, etc.), or they're intentionally trying to tank the game, the fact of the matter is GC is here to stay.

 

Well, at least Quinn's coming back... so, I got that going for me, which is nice.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Edyn

[JediAkemi]

Just because you can't or don't know how to craft doesn't mean crafting should be useless like it was for short period after 4.0 launched.

 

Assume much. I craft 228 & 230 gear for all my alts that don't have old set pieces. I just want a little something to offset the repair costs caused when things go wrong - when someone, by malice or stupidity, botches a boss fight or mob group repeatedly. It's not like I ever kept the blue 200 (and purple 208) static stuff that dropped before 5.0 anyway. I sold it to a vendor so I was always making a profit on a TFP run... except when Kilran would glitch and wipe us 6 times in a row.

[Tsillah]

What you describe, the lack of new skills and the extra time to level characters is one of the reasons I think they went with GC over a level cap increase. GC also doesn't require you to level all your alts every time, and can be bypassed by obtaining the gear through other means.

 

Would I personally try new content without there being an incentive? I'd like to say that I would, but if I already had max gear and the rewards for it were underwhelming then I honestly can't say for sure. Part of the reason to play games isn't just the gameplay, it's also about progress. Especially in MMO's.

 

Well the level cap raise usually comes with a new expansion. We just got one in December, so even in their own schedule this is unusual.

 

As far as progression is concerned they could simply continue to increase the gear tiers without raising the level cap but I suppose some people like getting more levels or something. I dunno. But for me the gear progression and beating new operations is more interesting than more character levels I guess.

[RiVaN_]

ITS OFFICIAL: Delete your alts now, you'll never even reach max level on one character, so you'll never play any other characters..

 

Honestly you are better off to unsub and go spend your money on something else.

I just unsubbed and spent my next 6 month sub fee on a steam link so that I can play my favorite steam games on my new 60 inch 4K tv.

A much better use of my time Ima thinking.

[midianlord]

OMG the posts are like a bunch of angry farmers catching a witch back in the days ready to burn her but the twitter post didn't say anything about what has changed within the system and don't get me wrong the raiding loot is in a bad way but this GC was more for the casual player to get the chance at gear and other items that drop in them and in my eyes it should stay as it is even pushing the rank to 400 I have no issues with it at all and if they fix the way raids give gear then it's all good. PvP maybe needs some improvement again but not by much you can't compare raiding to pvp.

 

My thoughts on how gearing should be looked at by the developers

 

1. Master mode - there is no doubt that this mode should drop the guaranteed item per boss like the raids used to because this is the highest in game difficulty and should reward the players with the best of the best due to being locked out of the instance or boss once killed.

 

2. Raids excluding EV/KP in Veteran Mode should have a random guaranteed drop per boss and the last boss has the current system.

 

3. EV/KP Veteran - these should drop like a tier below other HM's and just above the SM tier.

 

4. SM - now the current system is perfect for these why because it has a bolster and these raids are actually designed to be beaten by most pugs well that's what Bioware intended even though some are a bit rough for some people that don't know how to play yet.

 

So will I keep my sub going of course I will, does bioware need to do changes to certain game content of course they do and lets hope it's done soon but galactic command is here to stay and so it should.

 

We don't want to hear it, Ben.

[fushnchips]

We don't want to hear it, Ben.

 

Wish I was Ben I would then have some money to upgrade certain things in my Pc setup to make SWTOR even better.

[stoopicus]

Wish I was Ben I would then have some money to upgrade certain things in my Pc setup to make SWTOR even better.

 

Is it cold there in Stockholm?

[fushnchips]

Is it cold there in Stockholm?

 

was going to ask you the same thing so is it ?

[RiVaN_]

was going to ask you the same thing so is it ?

 

Looking at your Signature and seeing you have 2 toons at 300, one at 212 and another in the 100's I'm wondering if you do anything other than grind the crap out of GC...

It must be nice to have so much free time...

Edited February 28, 2017 by RiVaN_

[midianlord]

You can use alts to avoid operation lockouts and get weekly/daily rewards which are getting buffed tomorrow. There's also a strong indication that they'll make unassembled components legacy in the future, which would make pvp with alts a very good way to gear your main.

 

OK, this is just becoming so perfectly ridiculous.

 

How can anyone in good conscience still defend this worthless pile of garbage of a system?

 

No, dead-serious now:

 

How?

[Nightblazer]

OK, this is just becoming so perfectly ridiculous.

 

How can anyone in good conscience still defend this worthless pile of garbage of a system?

 

No, dead-serious now:

 

How?

 

I'm not defending it myself but at the same time its here to stay at least till 6.0 drops. So you could cancel and see what they do in 6.0 but till then GC is here to stay with changes and updates made till then and if it's removed or changed drastically in 6.0

[midianlord]

I'm not defending it myself but at the same time its here to stay at least till 6.0 drops. So you could cancel and see what they do in 6.0 but till then GC is here to stay with changes and updates made till then and if it's removed or changed drastically in 6.0

 

Quite right, quite right.

 

Which is precisely what I've done, just got some bit of time left.

 

The way this is going though, I wonder if TOR will even make it to 6.0?

 

Unless the intention is to actually crater this game, then heads need to roll in Austin, like, soon. And that's all I've got to say about that, because explicitly criticising the Saintly and Noble Church of BioWare can, once again, get one banned around here.

 

Five years, at least two community managers, who knows how many devs/teams, and it's all too clear that they've learned nothing.

Edited February 28, 2017 by midianlord

[Groncho]

this game is a forcebackpeddling sorc

[Valceanu]

i swear the amount of whining is getting ridiculous... The devs have just announced reward increases in just about every department which means we will gear up faster. The only thing yet to be done is adding components to small scale group content like Uprisings and such... Thats it. And imho it will be coming at some point. Even as it stands though... you can gear up with BiS via PvP (components - will be increased), PvE (part drops from Ops - will be increased) and also GSF. That is for BiS... you can also gear up via crafting to be close enough to BiS that it will make next to no difference. That is 4 different paths to gear up without even touching a bloody command crate... Those things are just a BONUS and crutch for soloers who dont want to engage in any group content (but then again they dont need BiS do they?).

 

And yes, they all require some work and time invested but (wait for it) ... that is how it SHOULD be at the tail end of an MMO. Just because BW turned SWTOR into ALTS-R-US during some previous patches it doesnt mean that is how it's supposed to be. The way some people described 4.0 it sounded ridiculous...

 

Bottom line, there is nothing wrong with the GC system in itself in my opinion. It's a pseudo-level-up mechanic that gives you BONUS items WHICHEVER type of content you choose to engage in. There are adjustments to be made to it, sure. They can (and probably will) adjust the ACTUAL gearing mechanics (see PvP, PvE, GSF, crafting) to a reasonable level but if you want to guarantee yourself BiS you do the hardest content... and getting multiple toons in BiS gear SHOULD take a relatively long time for your average couple of hours a day player.

[JediAkemi]

Yes, they are very slowly fixing it so Ops and PvP regain their better options for achieving BiS gear.

Time will tell.

I'll keep doing what I like because I like it rather than blindly chase GC levels; the better to avoid burnout.

[stoopicus]

was going to ask you the same thing so is it ?

 

You don't know what Stockholm Syndrome actually refers to, do you?

 

Hint: it implies sympathy for and affinity to the captors

[midianlord]

i swear the amount of whining is getting ridiculous... The devs have just announced reward increases in just about every department which means we will gear up faster. The only thing yet to be done is adding components to small scale group content like Uprisings and such... Thats it. And imho it will be coming at some point. Even as it stands though... you can gear up with BiS via PvP (components - will be increased), PvE (part drops from Ops - will be increased) and also GSF. That is for BiS... you can also gear up via crafting to be close enough to BiS that it will make next to no difference. That is 4 different paths to gear up without even touching a bloody command crate... Those things are just a BONUS and crutch for soloers who dont want to engage in any group content (but then again they dont need BiS do they?).

 

And yes, they all require some work and time invested but (wait for it) ... that is how it SHOULD be at the tail end of an MMO. Just because BW turned SWTOR into ALTS-R-US during some previous patches it doesnt mean that is how it's supposed to be. The way some people described 4.0 it sounded ridiculous...

 

Bottom line, there is nothing wrong with the GC system in itself in my opinion. It's a pseudo-level-up mechanic that gives you BONUS items WHICHEVER type of content you choose to engage in. There are adjustments to be made to it, sure. They can (and probably will) adjust the ACTUAL gearing mechanics (see PvP, PvE, GSF, crafting) to a reasonable level but if you want to guarantee yourself BiS you do the hardest content... and getting multiple toons in BiS gear SHOULD take a relatively long time for your average couple of hours a day player.

 

That Kool-Aid sure tastes awesome, doesn't it.

 

Oh, and your opinion =/= objective fact, so get over yourself and stop haranguing us with this condescending, sanctimonious crap. We've heard it all before from defenders long before you.

 

I told you before, Ben:

 

A lot of us are sick of your un-ending lies, self-deluded arrogance, shameless money-grubbing, and patently transparent attempts at manipulation.

 

We don't want to hear it any ********ned more.

Edited February 28, 2017 by midianlord