Evolixe Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) The tokens are legacywide and obtained pretty easily. It would make playing alts not completely aweful because you can gear a full set WITH setbonus instantly. Not only that, it would provide new and returning players at least some sort of grace against the currently completely stocked players in 240+ across the board. Come 5.2 it will weaken slightly in strength because a new tier is added, which is probably something that suits you (Bioware) since it would be less of an instant gear grant at pre-SM ops gear. Just do away with the need for components for tier 1 gear. Make it Command Tokens only and make the prices gracious. Like 400 tokens for a full set or something. You make alts get by, you solve new players getting completely shrekt.. nobody loses. Everybody wins. Make it happen. With 5.2 if not before. Edited February 26, 2017 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksarcasm Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 /support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I agree with this but even better would be if going forward they just make pvp bolster up to somewhere in the 4-6 levels below max gear level. The issue with PVE and PVP gear being the same is that PVE players need to have several tiers (I don't pve in swtor but in past games where I raided I would do hardmode dungeons > easy raids > hard raids for gear). So I can see why having 230, 236, and 242 would make sense for PVE'rs. However, good and competitive PVP'rs would like everyone to have the same stats. This is a company trying to make a profit though and grind does work to an extent. So the best solution would be to bring bolster up to around 4 levels of the top tier gear. This way PVP'rs that want to grind still can but it would not be truly necessary. This also allows for the PVP grind to be slower than PVE since the gear isn't as necessary as it is now. Also, PVE'rs could easily do both and there would be little reason for PVP'rs who hate PVE to do it. Even as someone who never PVE's in SWTOR I understand that PVE'rs need a grind and I even understand that if we are only using one type of gear for both that good PVE'rs should probably be able to gear up faster (gear matters more to them). If we were to bring bolster up to 238 then people who work to get 240 and 242's would still have an advantage in PVP and have a reason to grind but other players with less gear could still PVP on a close to even playing field. Also, the lesser geared players would still want to get the higher tier gear as well so there would be incentive for them to grind too. I loved 5.0 and that was perfect for me but I understand BW wants everyone to grind. If we bring bolster up to 238 (and then 4 levels below whatever the next top tier gear level is) there would be a reason to grind gear, different methods could gear at different rates, and everyone could pvp somewhat fairly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) The tokens are legacywide and obtained pretty easily. It would make playing alts not completely aweful because you can gear a full set WITH setbonus instantly. This would be an amazing start. It would solve two things immediately: - It would allow a fast path to an entry level full PvP set - It would remove any problems with not having the base piece to trade up via components Great idea! I agree with this but even better would be if going forward they just make pvp bolster up to somewhere in the 4-6 levels below max gear level. Honestly setting it at 250 (i.e. above top tier) was perfect. Just put it back and maintain it at equal to or greater than top tier. It completely removed gear rating from the equation while keeping gear stat mix important. EXACTLY what you want for PvP. If the PvE players whine about it (like they did), just remove bolster from PvE completely. Then they will either be happy or at least stop whining about bolster, win either way. Edited February 26, 2017 by stoopicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAtkinson Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 230 gear set is basic gear and everyone should get that easily as a start. I totally support the idea. Now you have to grind for 230 gear and then for 236 and then for 242. It's TOTALLY Wrong. Especially if they are planning to introduce a new gear tier ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 This would be an amazing start. It would solve two things immediately: Honestly setting it at 250 (i.e. above top tier) was perfect. Just put it back and maintain it at equal to or greater than top tier. It completely removed gear rating from the equation while keeping gear stat mix important. EXACTLY what you want for PvP. If the PvE players whine about it (like they did), just remove bolster from PvE completely. Then they will either be happy or at least stop whining about bolster, win either way. I completely agree with you but I think BW setting bolster above top tier isn't going to happen according to what they have said about it so far. I can kinda see their point as well even if I don't agree with it. However, I think with enough push we could get them to set bolster at around 4 levels below the current max and move it up as the max is moved up. This would still give BW what they want (a grind) while allowing casual pvp'rs and/or pvp'rs with alts to play on a nearly even playing field. On top of this it would still allow several tiers of gear for pve'rs and allow for pve'rs to get gear a bit faster without screwing pvp'rs if BW still wants it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli_Porter Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 You do that and you discourage buying the 100% CXP boosters, which also encourage alt play. So I'm not sure how much of a benefit it would bring, considering: 1. You get about 200 UC's in one week just by doing your reg dailies which is enough for two set pieces. 2. You can use 240 armorings on your alts instead of 230 set ones, which aren't that much worse. 3. SM Op drops need to remain relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 You do that and you discourage buying the 100% CXP boosters, which also encourage alt play. So I'm not sure how much of a benefit it would bring, considering: 1. You get about 200 UC's in one week just by doing your reg dailies which is enough for two set pieces. 2. You can use 240 armorings on your alts instead of 230 set ones, which aren't that much worse. 3. SM Op drops need to remain relevant. You still have to go through the first CXP levels to get to the higher tiers. Nothing gets discouraged. Unless you are a real lazy ****. 1. So? 2. Those armorings don't have a setbonus. 3. They will if this change would go live with 5.2. By which time SM will drop 236's as every difficulty will move up a tier. I wouldn't expect this to go live any sooner anyway. Any more objections or was that all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli_Porter Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) You still have to go through the first CXP levels to get to the higher tiers. Nothing gets discouraged. Unless you are a real lazy ****. You're trading one alt-friendy option for another. It's not as big of an improvement as you might think. 1. So? 2. Those armorings don't have a setbonus. So there's no urgent need for 230 set bonus gear. 240 non-set is worse, but it doesn't cripple your character. 3. They will if this change would go live with 5.2. By which time SM will drop 236's as every difficulty will move up a tier. I wouldn't expect this to go live any sooner anyway. Wild assumption. Any more objections or was that all? I suggest you be more civil when people offer their critique. Edited February 26, 2017 by Eli_Porter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) You're trading one alt-friendy option for another. It's not as big of an improvement as you might think. Trading what alt-friendly option exactly? Right now when you get to 70 you're stuck with greens unless you have a bunch of cash to spend. Which to your surprise, not every new player will have. And neither every veteran for the amount of alts that they have. So there's no urgent need for 230 set bonus gear. 240 non-set is worse, but it doesn't cripple your character. I'll just skip this as it's unrelevant. Read above. Wild assumption. It's literally the only thing that makes sense. And it would make even more sense with this suggestion. I suggest you be more civil when people offer their critique. Or else? I honestly don't have a whole lot of patience for people that think they are smart, but in reality don't really offer anything to the thread at all. That's where you come in. Your "Critique" is unfounded. And even though I just told you why I'm sure I'll see another post down here explaining why it isn't. It's a bit tiresome. People like you. Edited February 26, 2017 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli_Porter Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Trading what alt-friendly option exactly? Right now when you get to 70 you're stuck with greens unless you have a bunch of cash to spend. Which to your surprise, not every new player will have. And neither every veteran for the amount of alts that they have. Instead of getting more CXP levels via command boosts, people will use their tokens for gear. So there's an opportunity cost involved you should take into consideration. I'll just skip this as it's unrelevant. Read above. It's very much relevant since the puts the necessity of your suggestion in question. It's literally the only thing that makes sense. And it would make even more sense with this suggestion. They could make a lot of different changes regarding 230 and 248 gear distribution, many of which do not involve getting rid of 230 from the drop pools. Or else? Or else you end up with mediocre ideas approved by yes-men instead of great ideas that take lots of factors into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 The tokens are legacywide and obtained pretty easily. It would make playing alts not completely aweful because you can gear a full set WITH setbonus instantly. Not only that, it would provide new and returning players at least some sort of grace against the currently completely stocked players in 240+ across the board. Come 5.2 it will weaken slightly in strength because a new tier is added, which is probably something that suits you (Bioware) since it would be less of an instant gear grant at pre-SM ops gear. Just do away with the need for components for tier 1 gear. Make it Command Tokens only and make the prices gracious. Like 400 tokens for a full set or something. You make alts get by, you solve new players getting completely shrekt.. nobody loses. Everybody wins. Make it happen. With 5.2 if not before. Godd starting point, to make this GC hell more alt-friendly, it will be usefull for bags managment in Tier 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Instead of getting more CXP levels via command boosts, people will use their tokens for gear. So there's an opportunity cost involved you should take into consideration. You could just lower their prices if it ends it cause for concern. Idk about you, but I have 2000 tokens laying around. Plenty for boosts and gear. I also know plenty of people that just disassemble them by now because they are so close to cap and don't even use the tokens. They could make a lot of different changes regarding 230 and 248 gear distribution, many of which do not involve getting rid of 230 from the drop pools. And that's exactly what I'm saying they will do. However giving it through tokens for a new sort of "Recruit set" if you will. Which is good for everyone. Or else you end up with mediocre ideas approved by yes-men instead of great ideas that take lots of factors into account. Case in point, more unfounded concerns. Just like I predicted. Edited February 26, 2017 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomyBoy Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Gotta say, buying T1 gear with GC Tokens seems one of the best ideas so far i have seen on this forums. No sarcasm, no trolling. It is exactly what we need to balance all of this right now. Thumbs up for the guy that started this topic and i hope it catches the DEVs eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Instead of getting more CXP levels via command boosts, people will use their tokens for gear. So there's an opportunity cost involved you should take into consideration. It's very much relevant since the puts the necessity of your suggestion in question. They could make a lot of different changes regarding 230 and 248 gear distribution, many of which do not involve getting rid of 230 from the drop pools. Or else you end up with mediocre ideas approved by yes-men instead of great ideas that take lots of factors into account. This guy.....lol.... Look buddy, Evolixe made a decent suggestion, I said I agree and then gave what I thought would work better (either in addition to or by itself) and then another guy came in and discussed both of our points. Then you came in and defended a system that many paying customers are unhappy with. On top of this, you didn't defend the status quo with actual sound reasoning, instead you just said it is great and we're all simple yes-men. If anyone in this discussion is a yes-man without any great ideas it is obviously you. I can say with very high statistical confidence that you are no where near me IRL and from reading Evolixe I see he/she thinks logically and is likely far better off than you as well. Just stay out of this conversation unless you want to bring actual reasoning to it and not just insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Gotta say, buying T1 gear with GC Tokens seems one of the best ideas so far i have seen on this forums. No sarcasm, no trolling. It is exactly what we need to balance all of this right now. Thumbs up for the guy that started this topic and i hope it catches the DEVs eyes. I think the OP's idea along with putting bolster up to 4 levels below max would really be the best solution. 230 is still pretty crap. I kept my 230 gear and I can tell a huge difference between 230 and 236/242 I have now. In regs it doesn't matter very much but I'd be lying if I said I don't have a huge advantage in solo ranked vs someone in 230. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) I think the OP's idea along with putting bolster up to 4 levels below max would really be the best solution. 230 is still pretty crap. I kept my 230 gear and I can tell a huge difference between 230 and 236/242 I have now. In regs it doesn't matter very much but I'd be lying if I said I don't have a huge advantage in solo ranked vs someone in 230. That's why this idea is just to get people going. It's not even to put them in a good spot. But its better than the system now where you either have to get lucky with RNG boxes, do pve, or you are royally screwed and have to buy them with Unassembled comms. If bolster would get a bit more powerful than it is now that would also only be good for the game. The whole point is to give new 70's a fighting chance at least.. Edited February 26, 2017 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRMM Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I think the OP's idea along with putting bolster up to 4 levels below max would really be the best solution. 230 is still pretty crap. I kept my 230 gear and I can tell a huge difference between 230 and 236/242 I have now. In regs it doesn't matter very much but I'd be lying if I said I don't have a huge advantage in solo ranked vs someone in 230. This would solve a lot of problems, but it also was proposed before and ignored by BW. On top of all this, to make matters worse they are adding another 100 CXP levels in 5.2 and a new tier of gear. So those of us who are falling behind will fall behind even further. I enjoy this game a lot and have been a subscriber for many years now, but now I feel less and less pull to even log in. This addition of yet another tier might be the last straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 This would solve a lot of problems, but it also was proposed before and ignored by BW. Yeah, they seem to have a thing for doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 We wouldn't have a need for this convoluted system if they only kept pre 5.0 gearing. If they wanted a way for people to gear that didn't raid or do PvP better would be grinds for specific items like how FF does it with Anima weapons (f umbrite). I believe WoW does that too with long quest chains and stuff. But all this proves is that gear is now content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSilverRoar Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Yeah, BroWare should soooo make this happen in game. Rather than the current system where new toons and players are set up to be masercered in warzones when they hit level 70 by the ranked players. No contest and not even remotely close in unranked warzones. I agree, at least new players would have a fighting chance with basic 230 gear, rather than being lambs to the slaughter from the get go. Edited February 27, 2017 by Willjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Or else you end up with mediocre ideas approved by yes-men instead of great ideas that take lots of factors into account. Sure Eli, that's EXACTLY the problem with the PvP forums - too much farking consensus and not enough boat-rocking visionaries like you. Riiiiight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 That's why this idea is just to get people going. It's not even to put them in a good spot. But its better than the system now where you either have to get lucky with RNG boxes, do pve, or you are royally screwed and have to buy them with Unassembled comms. If bolster would get a bit more powerful than it is now that would also only be good for the game. The whole point is to give new 70's a fighting chance at least.. My biggest horse in this race is gearing alts which is why I favor a bolster/component rate solution, but all the same your idea is one of the best I have seen for dealing with the missing gear piece issue and the backloading of the basic gear deep into the tier one grind. I think your idea nicely solves the problem that Snave pointed out a month ago or so - right now getting a basic set with bonus is very deep into the GC grind (and may in fact never happen) and a lot could be solved by frontloading the basic set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assatrap Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Most of the dedicated pvpers are already 240+ geared. Thats effectively 2 tiers above newcommers and casual players who cant play more then 2 hours a day. Now after the new Command rank which is 400 dedicated pvpers are going to be 2-4 tiers above everyone else. They will just slaughter everyone and even regs will soon become like ranked. The least devs can do if they dont want the pvp community not to die soon is to atleast make tier 1 cheap and easy to get the set bonuses atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 For existing Operations (Tier 1 will no longer drop in Operations) Called it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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