What then...?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I want nothing handed to me. I personally not only enjoy but appreciate the challenges of the traditional MMO progression process. A process that relies on increasing content difficulty progression + fixed and predictable farming for gear upgrades to make it work - like this game had prior to 4.0. While I like my characters to look cool, I don't want cosmetics to be the extent of their gearing process. I'll leave that for Ken & Barbie fans.

 

Yes that's you and i would favour the opposite, again who is to say which would be more popular to the overall health of the game?

 

And you won't because a MMO without end game gearing doesn't exist. At least to my knowledge. Traditionally a AAA MMO without end game gear progression is no longer a MMO ... or AAA.

 

Yet MMOs are in decline and games that don't have stat gearing are on the rise. MOBA's for example.

Guess no one has been willing to take the risk

 

 

If raiders are such a niche and small portion of the overall community then Bioware would not have had to put on 4 Livestreams within 8 weeks of KotET's release to all but beg those niche raiders to either not leave or come back.

 

Most raiders left when they stopped getting new raids 2 years ago. The streams were damage control for what GC did which was negatively affect more than just progression raiders. It hit the entire PVP community and casual players who enjoyed doing more difficult content.

 

Don't get me wrong I'll happily progress gear as it was in 4.0 and would love that over this but I honestly believe the idea of the end game gearing treadmill is archaic and should be replaced.

 

Then it sounds like a MMO without gear requirements would best suit your preferred play style. Is there such a thing?

 

I asked this same question earlier at some point and no answers. Still I like this game and as I mentioned I would go back to a 4.0 system happily but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be inferior to a removed gearing system.

 

Heck they could trial it out with this new boss. 3 modes and each has bolster. See what the feedback is like, metrics on participation etc. - if it falls flat well only a couple of months before the next boss and they can bring in a progression gearing grind from that boss and retroactive to the other boss and/or raids.

 

Unfortunately I am fairly sure we'll be getting even more higher gear ratings on top of 242 and that could possibly mean even more GC. Hopefully not the later part and the new rated gear will drop in a superior means as more GC would just undo any good will and work generated from the 5.2 change in content direction.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Guild Wars 1 has gear updates as you play through the story but no end-game gear grind. And there are only 20 player levels which you can reach after doing less than a third of the complete game.

 

How do they handle their end game then? Do they have different levels of difficult for raids/dungeons?

 

Obviously for PVP no end game gear is always going to be superior but PVE is the interesting point.

[mike_carton]

How do they handle their end game then? Do they have different levels of difficult for raids/dungeons?

 

Obviously for PVP no end game gear is always going to be superior but PVE is the interesting point.

 

The raids are done with the best level 20 gear you can get. If you do the story content you'll be able to afford everything. Nothing is really expensive. So it all comes down to skill. You get a huge number of skills but can only carry 8 at any time into the battle (story part, PvP or raids). You can choose your skill set and gear yourself to best complement that skill set. One of the best Wikis in the gaming world helps with it. Gear can all be obtained from in-game vendors (loot is an option as well, but does not need to be from raids.)

 

Any group activity can be done with up to 7 AI-controlled companions whose skill bars (up to 8 skills per companion again) you get to choose and you can gear them up (their stats matter.) You can split them into groups and set flags for each group to guard an area around the map and fight if necessary without having to micromanage them. No "Dragon Age: Origins" style ability to program them, though.

 

You buy the game once and play forever; no subscription. This is Guild Wars, not the sequel Guild Wars 2.

 

My only association with the game is as a long-time player. I am obviously a great fan of Star Wars universe, so it is not a substitute for SWTOR.

Edited February 11, 2017 by mike_carton

[IanArgent]

The raids are done with the best level 20 gear you can get. If you do the story content you'll be able to afford everything. Nothing is really expensive. So it all comes down to skill. You get a huge number of skills but can only carry 8 at any time into the battle (story part, PvP or raids). You can choose your skill set and gear yourself to best complement that skill set. One of the best Wikis in the gaming world helps with it. Gear can all be obtained from in-game vendors (loot is an option as well, but does not need to be from raids.)

 

Any group activity can be done with up to 7 AI-controlled companions whose skill bars (up to 8 skills per companion again) you get to choose and you can gear them up (their stats matter.) You can split them into groups and set flags for each group to guard an area around the map and fight if necessary without having to micromanage them. No "Dragon Age: Origins" style ability to program them, though.

 

You buy the game once and play forever; no subscription. This is Guild Wars, not the sequel Guild Wars 2.

 

My only association with the game is as a long-time player. I am obviously a great fan of Star Wars universe, so it is not a substitute for SWTOR.

 

The skillsets substitute for gear, in this case, though there is (apparently?) no grind to get them.

 

Gear grind is a method of artificially elongating play time - it always has been and always will be. It's the "leveling" process for the end-game, allowing the developers to set a "you must be this tall" gate in front of content. Prior to 4.x, you had an "illusion of progress" where the gear cap increased, which necessitated an increase in difficulty in "end-game" content; but new end-game content was provided, so nobody really cared. But in 4.x, they were unable to produce new endgame group content, so they instead set all the existing content "more difficult." It wasn't terrribly noticeable, because the gear grind was trivial to nonexistent (if you can hit BiS in a couple hours, I think I can safely call that trivial to nonexistent, no?)

 

In retrospect, I think them increasing the gearing caps (and to a lesser extent the level caps, though that's not as bad) without having new group content to progress against was a capital mistake. The only reason it didn't blow up the forums in 4.x was that getting to PvE gear cap was trivial, so nobody was really set back in their raiding progression. Come 5.x and the New Gearing Experience () not only is the gear grind taking a lot longer, the progression raiders are not able to leverage their skill level to accelerate their gearing to be able to return to their old progression location. The illusion of progress is broken.

 

We have no way of knowing what would have happened if they hadn't increased the gear cap without adding group content - I suspect that it would have been just as controversial, but perhaps not as rage-inducing.

 

One further comment, and it's a long-time hobby horse of mine. The GC gearing system means that end-game gearing is no longer gated exclusively behind "well-run guilds." For pugs, ops gearing has always been RNG, because you roll off on the boss drops, and there aren't enough to go around. For a variety of reasons (again, ground I've trod before) there is a need for end-game gear (perhaps not BiS, but certainly set bonus) in optional solo content, so gating end-game gear behind "well-run guilds" is no longer acceptable. I'm not going to say the gurrent gearing system is Least Bad (far from it), but the curse of MMO games is that the core system shave to support all supported play styles more or less equally.

[Genada]

A lot of people are stuck on the idea they need the best gear because they still think they are playing a real mmo.

 

In a real mmo, you need gear to further your progress in the game and to view the new content that is put out. Not gearing leads to a lose of game experience due to not being geared enough for new content patches.

 

In this game, why people care about gear is beyond me. They do not put out content that is a challenge and your able to do the content they put out with a very low level of gear.

[JattaGin]

So, the players are now fully geared to whatever the current max stats are— now what?

 

Thinking about the history of this board, my answer to this is:

 

Come here to complain about the next "hot" topic to complain about. I mean, one of the hottest topics on this board is:

 

"Game has died, nowhere to go, nothing to do."

 

Now everyone has to do something for many months. They don't like it and request a nerf, so that it takes less time.

 

When they are done, they come here to complain that they are done with everything.

 

You think this is hyperbole? Do the search for yourself. Some of those topics are still around. It has been the same after every patch. Even after the launch. People speedrun through everything, then complain.

 

My main is GC level 20 or so. I'm good. Still enjoying 5.0. Call me white knight, if you must.

 

(And yes, I am aware that OP's question is actually gear-related.)

[Yezzan]

So, the players are now fully geared to whatever the current max stats are— now what?

 

 

They find something else to do. What was the content for 5.0? 10 chapters of story? Cause everything else we have done before, over and over, and over.

 

I agree with the no gear suggestions. Stats should be tied to your character and abilities.

[ENVISIONocity]

(And yes, I am aware that OP's question is actually gear-related.)

 

That's because that is my perception as I've been visiting this forum, from the numerous posts that have voiced dissent over the inability to run some part of the game to garner a specific component in their gear.

 

But I suppose the overall subject is technically the "end-game" which, again, I as a solo player who reads the forum, keep getting the impression that it all hinges on gearing one's self to the maximum. At least if the loudest posts are truly reflective of the majority of those who play far, far more than I do. Of those who hold that "end-game" is all about gearing to gain the best stats to be able to do this part of the game or that, my question was, okay, so they are given exactly what they are shouting out for, and get max-stat gear. But then what?

 

Personally, I just don't see how "RNG" impacts my game time, as I have a much different notion of what "end-game" is: playing through the storyline and sidequests, and then anticipate the next expansion the same as I would await the next book in a great series, or a follow-up movie to one I particularly enjoyed (John Wick 2, anyone?). The end is when either the story is completed (Lord of the Rings, The Thomas Covenant books, The Wheel of Time series, for example), or the story is abandoned or unlikely EVER to be completed (George R.R. Martin, I'm looking at you).

 

As much as I'm a bungling player, I must have gear and stats appropriate enough to carry me through all of the story (solo) aspects of the game, not to mention companions who have demonstrated remarkable consistency in keeping me alive in spite of myself! So why should I care if I get a crate that has various items in it to take or disintegrate? It doesn't seem to matter, and hasn't detracted from my looking forward to every opportunity to play. The only factor that has stung is the switch in conversation style, removing the immersion for me that I've enjoyed the past 5 years. Hardly a game-breaker, since there is so much else to still do.

 

So, once I finish the current storyline (KOTET), what then? Well, I'll run two more alts through it, one as a fully light-side, and one as an on-the-fence character. What then, after I do that? Well, by then, I suspect that there will be another expansion, and I'll have 3 alts devoted to the GC system, along with my 46 or 47 Classic SWTOR alts who will remain in the Classic story. Occasionally, I'll "reboot" one of them to run them through the Classic SWTOR, since many of them I've been away for so long that I can't really remember their personality and attitudes and such.

 

Because great stories are meant to be enjoyed over and over! I can't seem to bring myself to racing to the last page, preferring to savor the journey.

[GalacticKegger]

Personally, I just don't see how "RNG" impacts my game time, as I have a much different notion of what "end-game" is: playing through the storyline and sidequests, and then anticipate the next expansion the same as I would await the next book in a great series, or a follow-up movie to one I particularly enjoyed ...

That would be more along the lines of a RPG, not a MMO. Edited February 11, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Galahard]

That would be more along the lines of a RPG, not a MMO.

 

How about MMORPG?

 

Really tired of the notion of MMO = WoW.

[ENVISIONocity]

How about MMORPG?

 

Really tired of the notion of MMO = WoW.

 

Even when I played WoW, I was a solo player and never did the group content beyond a couple group instances. Same with Matrix Online.

 

At the same time, I happen to enjoy coming into what I understand to be the MMO environment where people are heading every which way— groups or loners like me. It makes the game feel more expansive with a population of other players, at least for me. Even out here in real life, I enjoy seeing all the different people doing their thing. Groups of friends at a mall, the families at the grocery store-- in their own way, MMOs in the real-world sense.

 

If I come across content that I can't do, I simply don't do it. There are a gazillion situations out here in the real world where I "miss out" because I'm not grouping up with others, or part of a union (read: guild). I've never viewed it as limiting though, because it's simply my choice or preference. But it doesn't change the reality that Life is itself an MMORPG. We all play our roles and set our ambitions/goals.

 

But I do find it curious that there has been some sort of distinction that has come into vogue that an MMO shouldn't be confused with an RPG. An MMO, as I've always understood it, is simply the description of an online environment where there are MANY people playing at the same time on a server. Some could be RPG, some PVP, some Operations. But MMO, regardless. Right?

[Galahard]

Even when I played WoW, I was a solo player and never did the group content beyond a couple group instances. Same with Matrix Online.

 

At the same time, I happen to enjoy coming into what I understand to be the MMO environment where people are heading every which way— groups or loners like me. It makes the game feel more expansive with a population of other players, at least for me. Even out here in real life, I enjoy seeing all the different people doing their thing. Groups of friends at a mall, the families at the grocery store-- in their own way, MMOs in the real-world sense.

 

If I come across content that I can't do, I simply don't do it. There are a gazillion situations out here in the real world where I "miss out" because I'm not grouping up with others, or part of a union (read: guild). I've never viewed it as limiting though, because it's simply my choice or preference. But it doesn't change the reality that Life is itself an MMORPG. We all play our roles and set our ambitions/goals.

 

But I do find it curious that there has been some sort of distinction that has come into vogue that an MMO shouldn't be confused with an RPG. An MMO, as I've always understood it, is simply the description of an online environment where there are MANY people playing at the same time on a server. Some could be RPG, some PVP, some Operations. But MMO, regardless. Right?

 

The problem with the elitist MMO crowd, based on the impression from this forums, is that they have an exclusive view on what an MMO should be and that stems in WoW. In their view MMO(RPG) is only progressive group content and they look down on story or casual players. They demand exclusively content for themselves and not willing to share development resources with story/casual players. As soon as this game (whatever we call it an MMO or an MMORPG or an Online Game) does not provide enough of the content they want, they cry foul and threaten to unsub and shout that this is an MMO, and their needs have to be catered for, cause they are the ones that define what an MMO is or what it should be (in their view).

I personally don't mind either story/solo content and group content, as long as the content is good and it is coming, just keep producing. And personally don't care if it's called an MMO or MMORPG or an Online Game or a muffin.

The problem is with the elitist exclusivity attitude of some players.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Galahard

[eriksarcasm]

Even when I played WoW, I was a solo player and never did the group content beyond a couple group instances. Same with Matrix Online.

 

At the same time, I happen to enjoy coming into what I understand to be the MMO environment where people are heading every which way— groups or loners like me. It makes the game feel more expansive with a population of other players, at least for me. Even out here in real life, I enjoy seeing all the different people doing their thing. Groups of friends at a mall, the families at the grocery store-- in their own way, MMOs in the real-world sense.

 

If I come across content that I can't do, I simply don't do it. There are a gazillion situations out here in the real world where I "miss out" because I'm not grouping up with others, or part of a union (read: guild). I've never viewed it as limiting though, because it's simply my choice or preference. But it doesn't change the reality that Life is itself an MMORPG. We all play our roles and set our ambitions/goals.

 

But I do find it curious that there has been some sort of distinction that has come into vogue that an MMO shouldn't be confused with an RPG. An MMO, as I've always understood it, is simply the description of an online environment where there are MANY people playing at the same time on a server. Some could be RPG, some PVP, some Operations. But MMO, regardless. Right?

 

There are those who would accuse you of playing the game wrong, and who would accuse the game of being mislabeled as an MMO since it is designed in such a way that you can play the game solo.

[Galahard]

There are those who would accuse you of playing the game wrong, and who would accuse the game of being mislabeled as an MMO since it is designed in such a way that you can play the game solo.

I know how dare you not group and how dare you not spacebar every group content convo in the game right?

Didn't you go to MMO Elementary School or something?

[GalacticKegger]

How about MMORPG?

 

Really tired of the notion of MMO = WoW.

MMOs can and should be accommodating to solo players. It's when MMO content becomes exclusive to solo play that it no longer qualifies as a MMO. Leveling through KotFE and KotET are prime examples. Edited February 12, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[AscendingSky]

The problem with the elitist MMO crowd, based on the impression from this forums, is that they have an exclusive view on what an MMO should be and that stems in WoW. In their view MMO(RPG) is only progressive group content and they look down on story or casual players. They demand exclusively content for themselves and not willing to share development resources with story/casual players. As soon as this game (whatever we call it an MMO or an MMORPG or an Online Game) does not provide enough of the content they want, they cry foul and threaten to unsub and shout that this is an MMO, and their needs have to be catered for, cause they are the ones that define what an MMO is or what it should be (in their view).

I personally don't mind either story/solo content and group content, as long as the content is good and it is coming, just keep producing. And personally don't care if it's called an MMO or MMORPG or an Online Game or a muffin.

The problem is with the elitist exclusivity attitude of some players.

 

Stop smacking that poor, abused strawman around. What did it ever do to you?

 

The MMO 'elitists' on this forum that you're talking about aren't saying "We never want solo players to have any content or story directed at them EVER, only endless raids/PvP FOREVER!!" What they're saying is "We've had two straight expansions directed only at casual solo players, can you live up to your (now over two years old) promises you made to not make us wait so long for group content again please?" Very different issues.

 

If MMOs want to have a lot of subscribers, they have to offer game modes and aspects that appeal to a lot of different demographics. Focusing on one of those demographics (casual solo players) and ignoring all the others is not a good business strategy. New expansions and content updates should have something for everyone to keep more players interested and engaged (and therefore subscribing).

Edited February 12, 2017 by AscendingSky

[ENVISIONocity]

MMOs can and should be accommodating to solo players. It's when MMO content becomes exclusive to solo play that it no longer qualifies as a MMO. Leveling through KotFE and KotET are prime examples.

 

My ignorance is going to show here, I'm sure, but in Classic SWTOR, I was under the impression that people could max level without even really bothering with Class Stories, leveling through PVP, for example, or group content. This would lead people to max level, I thought, to then go back and do their class stories. That way, even though level sync was in effect now, they could still get great mileage out of the stats and other factors they'd accumulated in leveling up, to get through the Class Story content all the faster.

 

Isn't it the same under the GC expansions (KOTFE/KOTET)? Even someone who purchases an instant character for KOTET has the option to level through non-solo aspects of GC-- PVP, Operations, and Uprisings, for example. These constitute MMO, I believe.

 

If all that was available for leveling in the GC system were the solo KOTFE/KOTET storylines, then it would cease to be an MMO. Or am I misunderstanding?

[craggy]

I get your point, and I'm a casual solo player for the most part myself, but flipping it the other way, if the last 2 years had only delivered new ops and warzones, with 3 or 4 heroics that took us maybe an hour to do alone, I'd be unhappy. So I can see where those who prefer to primarily team up for group content are a bit justified in their outrage.

 

Being as the story is my favourite aspect of the game the idea of running increasingly harder versions of the same missions time and again in order to get better gear to run yet harder versions of that same content baffles me, but those players might see me logging in and browsing the collections tabs trying different pieces on to make a great looking outfit as an equally big waste of time. Hell, at least the Ops players might (possibly, if the RNG gods are kind) end up with something to show for their efforts.

 

There has been only the tiniest amount of new group content provided. It's not that the old stuff has been taken away. Heck, with the unassembled gear, and PVP cxp Vs solo cxp divide, multiplayer stuff has been, if not vocally, certainly financially encouraged in 5.0 and 5.1. It's just there's been very little new content to support that.

Edited February 12, 2017 by craggy

[GalacticKegger]

My ignorance is going to show here, I'm sure, but in Classic SWTOR, I was under the impression that people could max level without even really bothering with Class Stories, leveling through PVP, for example, or group content. This would lead people to max level, I thought, to then go back and do their class stories. That way, even though level sync was in effect now, they could still get great mileage out of the stats and other factors they'd accumulated in leveling up, to get through the Class Story content all the faster.

 

I see no ignorance at all as you are absolutely right. People can max level without bothering with Class Stories. In fact, once a character has made it to fleet they can hit level cap via PvP and GSF without ever setting foot an another planet. And for players who want to level up via story, thanks to level sync a player can reach level cap now without ever seeing any of the expansions. Since the last 2 expansions won't allow us to level through their story with another player, level sync allows me to skip them entirely.

 

I personally have a handful of PvP-only toons ranging in levels from 10 to 65, as well as a Smuggler who is level 55 and (after finishing his Coruscant class story to get his ship) is where he is by leveling exclusively through Space Combat.

 

Isn't it the same under the GC expansions (KOTFE/KOTET)? Even someone who purchases an instant character for KOTET has the option to level through non-solo aspects of GC-- PVP, Operations, and Uprisings, for example. These constitute MMO, I believe.

 

If all that was available for leveling in the GC system were the solo KOTFE/KOTET storylines, then it would cease to be an MMO. Or am I misunderstanding?

 

It is not the same ... not even close. Classic SWTOR was founded on Bioware's 4 pillars of MMO game design: Exploration, Combat, Progression and Story.

 

"Daniel Erickson: When we said, hey, we’re going to do our first MMO, the obvious [pillar] to talk about first, even though none of the pillars can stand without the rest of them, and none of them are more important than the rest of them, we’re talking about story first because story is the delta. It’s the thing we’re doing that other people have not done."

 

As defined by Bioware themselves, this used to be a MMORPG: 25% Combat, 25% Exploration, 25% Progression, 25% Storytelling. Prior to Fallen Empire everything was built on massive and fully explorable open world planets. Each vanilla class story took about 40 hours to complete, and they could be played solo OR in a group. Flashpoints were leveling group content that could be solo'd with a companion after 5 levels or so above their max level rating. Their elder game HM variants, as well as the heroic areas like BH and Section X took at least another 30 or 40 hours to clear and item up for end game operations. End game Operations took another 10 or 20 hours per tier to clear. That's 90 to 130 vanilla hours (including NiMs) PER CHARACTER for nothing but linear leveling and end game progression.

 

Elder game and end game was more than 50% of the game. That's what made it a MMO. It was like that since the Wall of Crazy before many who play now even knew the game was in development.

 

Leveling Game

In classic SWTOR PvE characters leveled up in tiers on each planet: open world exploration, class / companion story & planet missions → planet heroic 2s → planet heroic 4s → planet flashpoint. In this original (and tiered) level progression system, characters had a hard time outleveling planets, and if they did it wasn't by much. Players who preferred to focus on story alone could level through that while players who enjoyed leveling through challenging group content could do that as well. There was plenty of game there to accommodate both.

 

Each planet had its own mini-elder game (H2s and H4s) and mini-end game (flashpoints). Group players would complete each planet's elder and end games before going to the next planet, while solo players would usually play up through elder game, go to the next planet for a few levels and come back to run the previous planet's end game flashpoint solo with a companion. Running flashpoints solo at 5 or so levels above the flashpoint's listed level range provided the player with a challenge similar to what group players experienced when they were running it level appropriate, and still provided drops they could use because the flashpoint boss loot tables and comm system were balanced to carry a player through to the next planet's elder game.

 

Speaking of drops, every tier of progression featured equipment and item upgrade drops and rewards that would prepare the character for advancement to the next tier. Bosses would always drop a custom item from a fixed loot table. Always. The question was which of the possible 4 or 5 items on a boss' loot list would be the one to drop. If the custom item your were looking for didn't drop, you simply ran it until it did drop. It's called farming, which is a staple of all established MMORPGs in general and was a key progression feature for 4 years in this one. Once a player learned all the boss mechanics, succeeding alts took advantage of the player's experience and progressed quicker.

 

The Galactic Command system will never support farming until full and fixed loot tables are brought back & RNG is removed from the equation entirely.

 

Elder & End Game

The same loot table system that supported the leveling game was also in place for level cap elder game and end game. Once a character reached max level they progressed through elder game heroic zones like Black Hole and Section X. These would prepare characters (and their players) for Hard Mode versions of the earlier flashpoints. Playing through the heroic zones and HMs the same way they progressed through planet H2s and H4s would prepare the characters for progressing through Operations ... of which there were multiple tiers spanning multiple Operations with the newest operation providing the highest tier of difficulty with the highest level of loot.

 

And progression was simple: conquering a difficulty level provided the end boss achievements, weapons, armor & items to advance and take on the next tier of difficulty which came in the form a new operation. It's not convoluted in any way and requires improved game play, not points acquired from unrelated disciplines, to progress. Working up to Operations via anything but group PvE elder game in no way prepares the player for the scope, scale & teamwork they and their character will face in Operations.

 

Which makes the whole Command Rank system grossly misplaced as a progression system for anything other than a single player RPG.

Edited February 13, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Tsillah]

So, the players are now fully geared to whatever the current max stats are— now what?

 

I mean, what happens after you're fully geared along with hundreds or thousands of other players all striving to max out their armor, etc.? Where does one go after they've maxxed?

 

Well then the next expansion comes out and it goes on.

 

You see if it takes 3 months as per your example and you have a year between expansions with a new level cap raise and new levels of gear, you basically have time to gear up 4 characters within that year (4x3 months). However, a lot of people have more characters than that.

 

So how would you gear up 10 or 20 characters within the year of an expansion? You can't currently.

 

Before 5.0 this was possible. So people did it, because without a lot of new content, what else are you going to do?

 

pvp is more boring than ever, stories are single stories now so not much replay value there. Heroics are the same as before. FPs are the same as before.

 

At least with gearing up you had something to do, goals you could set and complete. Now I know that's not for everyone but for many people this is how we played SWTOR. That's sort of ruined now.

 

Besides, in April we get 5.2 and a little birdie told me that we will get higher tiers of gear already then. I'd be lucky to have 1 character in full 242, let alone 10.

 

It just wasn't a good idea to destroy gear progression with something that you can't really plan. With 5.1 it's better but it's still not great.

[ENVISIONocity]

Which makes the whole Command Rank system grossly misplaced as a progression system for anything other than a single player RPG.

 

A very informative and helpful post, thank you!

 

I am hoping you can explain this, though: how the Command Rank is a progression system best suited for a single player RPG?

 

Thanks, in advance!

[Jplankey]

What is RNG?

[GalacticKegger]

What is RNG?

Random Number Generation.

[ENVISIONocity]

Well then the next expansion comes out and it goes on.

 

You see if it takes 3 months as per your example and you have a year between expansions with a new level cap raise and new levels of gear, you basically have time to gear up 4 characters within that year (4x3 months). However, a lot of people have more characters than that.

 

So how would you gear up 10 or 20 characters within the year of an expansion? You can't currently.

I never even thought of it this way before, but a good point.

 

It just wasn't a good idea to destroy gear progression with something that you can't really plan. With 5.1 it's better but it's still not great.

See, I can wrap my head around the issue when you explain it that way. With the specific drops, if I understand this, coming from specific bosses, you knew for sure you'd get what you need from the boss, and just farmed him until they dropped what you needed. While this was RNG, it was an RNG that was limited to specific drops from a set array of items, one of the items dropping every time. Not like the current system where it's been randomized, making it impossible to plan to replay a boss to get an item you need to complete a set.

 

Am I understanding it right?

[GalacticKegger]

A very informative and helpful post, thank you!

 

You are most welcome.

 

I am hoping you can explain this, though: how the Command Rank is a progression system best suited for a single player RPG?

 

Thanks, in advance!

 

Can a player advance a character to a high enough command rank to qualify for end game group operations without completing the Flashpoint track? Can a player qualify for end game group operations without ever having played in a group, or completing PvE elder game? Does the system limit a player's ability to plan out their character's item progression path by item & location, and then farm it? If the answer to any of those is yes, then the Command Rank system is misplaced as a progression system for anything other than a single player RPG.

Edited February 13, 2017 by GalacticKegger