Galactic Command Gearing Roadmap - Coming This Week

[TUXs]

I think the point Menace was trying to make, while the gear was guaranteed to drop it was not guaranteed you would get the piece so that part was RNG as you were never guaranteed to get anything that dropped. I know I ran some operations and there were times I winded up with nothing from the run.

And I addressed that in my very first reply to him Casi. He's the one who's been trying to argue.

[Talon_strikes]

I fully support this idea - then this MMO can return its focus to story and solo options with sporadic group content as side content.

 

Raiders can play Raid-focused MMOs that cater to their tastes, solo-/story-centric players can play story-focused MMOs that cater to their tastes, and players with diverse tastes can pick the MMO or MMOs they individually like best.

There's no such thing as solo/story MMOs. Those are called singleplayer games, which SWTOR is NOT.

[RswanBing]

And I addressed that in my very first reply to him Casi. He's the one who's been trying to argue.

 

As I read it, Tuxs understand and answered that, as he just said. To solve this, let's talk about group instead of individuals.

 

Here's Tuxs point as I understand it, and agree with.

 

Before 5.0, a group was garanteed to get gear, not necessary everyone, but it was garanteed that the group get something. Now the group can have nothing at all. Conclusion: saying RNG was the same before 5.0 makes no sense at all.

 

Do I get it right ?

Edited February 2, 2017 by RswanBing

[DarthDymond]

There's no such thing as solo/story MMOs.

 

Have you not been here for the past fifteen months? A story- / solo-focused MMO is exactly what KotFE's expansion cycle and KotET's launch gave us.

Edited February 2, 2017 by DarthDymond

[TUXs]

As I read it, Tuxs understand that and answer, as he just said. To solve this, let's talk about group instead of individuals.

 

Here's Tuxs point as I understand it, and agree with.

 

Before a group was garanteed to get gear, not necessary everyone, but it was garanteed that the group get something. Now the group can have nothing at all. Saying RNG was the same before makes no sense at all.

 

Do I get it right ?

Correct, not only guaranteed to get gear, but guaranteed to get EXACTLY what they focused on. If I needed the MH weapon, I could get it. If I needed the chest, I knew exactly what to do to get it. The drops were guaranteed PER boss. There was nothing random at all about it.

[TUXs]

The first set of changes will likely be next week in Game Update 5.1.1. The second set of changes a few weeks later (likely end of Feb) in 5.1.2. I am working on the final details. I am really hoping to get the post out today with all of the details, tomorrow the latest.

 

-eric

I appreciate the update Eric...but this doesn't exactly sound like you're working hard to fix anything. Unless next weeks changes are monumental, you're moving too slow on this...

[GalacticKegger]

The first set of changes will likely be next week in Game Update 5.1.1. The second set of changes a few weeks later (likely end of Feb) in 5.1.2. I am working on the final details. I am really hoping to get the post out today with all of the details, tomorrow the latest.

 

-eric

I have a very bad feeling about this ...

[RswanBing]

Correct, not only guaranteed to get gear, but guaranteed to get EXACTLY what they focused on. If I needed the MH weapon, I could get it. If I needed the chest, I knew exactly what to do to get it. The drops were guaranteed PER boss. There was nothing random at all about it.

 

Seems perfectly clear and logical to me.

 

Menace just mix different things who aren't the same. The selection system of the player inside the group who get the stuff could be rng before, but the gearing system by himself wasn't . And when you were running with mates, there wasn't really rng at all. (Unless your mates are ninjas ).

Edited February 2, 2017 by RswanBing

[Jedi_riches]

I appreciate the update Eric...but this doesn't exactly sound like you're working hard to fix anything. Unless next weeks changes are monumental, you're moving too slow on this...

 

Honestly I would prefer a few more weeks if it's the difference between a good all-round solution or another half-assed solution that does not really work for anyone.

[DanNV]

While I agree operations have been too long in coming, I can actually see why they are doing this. The last operation they added, people completed in a few weeks or 1 month and then they came screaming to the forums they have nothing to do. Maybe this way they can spread it out so we have something more to do.

 

Everytime they add something, people finish it within a few weeks and then come running to the forums saying they don't have anything else to do.

 

No, a few really top end groups did that, got an award from BW and then left the game. Many, many groups never got all 10 bosses from SoR down in HM. My group is either 5 of 10 or 6 of 10 (not gonna log in now to check.) The REvan fiught is still bugged (or so I am told by people who were trying it and are now back in WoW) and it's been bugged since they released it.

 

For end game players, they need to release new content on a regular basis. The more they release the longer people stay subbed and playing. If they don't release new content people leave. It's pretty simple. This time they wasted lots of money on a blur trailer and wasted a lot of money and dev time on Galactic Command. That all could have been spent on actual, real content and they'd have a lot more subs right now. As it stands, subs are WAY down, game populations are WAY down. No server is ever hitting anything above standard and most never get above light populations. The only people to blame for that are the dev team and the producer in particular.

 

Ben and crew can hang onto GC with a deathgrip and go down with the ship or they can let it go,m write it off as a bad idea and go back to something that makes their players happy and more willing to play. They get to choose. Tomorrows post will go a long way to saying whether people stay or more and more continue to leave. I am hoping for good things but expecting to get more "tweaks".

[Fygee]

I appreciate the update Eric...but this doesn't exactly sound like you're working hard to fix anything. Unless next weeks changes are monumental, you're moving too slow on this...

 

Making adjustments like this takes time. A small error can throw gameplay and item acquisition balance way out of whack. There needs to be testing and quality assurance done as well.

 

Patience padawan.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Fygee

[TUXs]

Making adjustments like this takes time. A small error can throw gameplay and item acquisition balance way out of whack. There needs to be testing and quality assurance done as well.

 

Patience padawan.

5.0 dropped over 2 months ago...I have been patient.

Edited February 2, 2017 by TUXs

[DanNV]

I fully support this idea - then this MMO can return its focus to story and solo options with sporadic group content as side content.

 

Raiders can play Raid-focused MMOs that cater to their tastes, solo-/story-centric players can play story-focused MMOs that cater to their tastes, and players with diverse tastes can pick the MMO or MMOs they individually like best.

 

You support the game closing, then. It has shown it can't live on story alone. It failed at launch (it didn't go free to play because it was a success) and it has failed the last year and a half, all because it's been story alone. Story players don't stay subbed. They play the story and then leave until more story comes out. The game can't live on that.

 

But IMO, reason for this "One boss after another" release is they just don't have enough people to deliver things faster. I may be wrong, but I really think that's the main reason.

 

Actually, it is an attempt to keep end game players subbed. If the first boss isn't something totally stupendous it will fail no matter what else they do. The players will unsub and come back when it's done just like story players did for KotFE.

 

Making adjustments like this takes time. A small error can throw gameplay and item acquisition balance way out of whack. There needs to be testing and quality assurance done as well.

 

Patience padawan.

 

They're out of time. They've had almost 5 months of steady feedback on something that they should have pulled from the expansion instead of letting go live. There is no excuse for it continuing today, much less after another update.

[teclado]

Yeah, unfortunately you've got a situation of "please buy our existing product! Oh and by the way, we have a much better product coming out in just a little bit!!" People aren't going to buy the current version. They are going to wait until the new and improved version comes out. I've experienced this sort of thing at my own job. Then if the development of the new thing is slowed down...suddenly you find yourself in a situation where the money isn't coming in for a lengthy period of time. Not good.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't communicate and tell us that improvements are coming. In this case, it's absolutely the right move. It's just that the drastic gearing changes with 5.0 should have been recognized as a no-go from the beginning and never should have made it off the wall of crazy. That decision made this a messy situation.

 

It's clear to me that deleting GC is not on the table. I think this can be salvaged. Here are some minimal changes for maximum impact:

1) Bring back expertise with two PvP gear tiers (how about 224 and 232?), making them just as cheap and easy to get as in 4.0

2) Revert PvP bolster to how it worked in 4.0

3) Improve operation drops

 

Basically, revert to 4.0 style but with Galactic Command added on top. By the way....this is how you should have tested Galactic Command. Add it as a cherry on top of what we had, not replace it outright.

 

I just don't see how you reconcile having the same gear for PvP and PvE. There's no way to balance that. One activity or the other will be a faster method of gearing. Even if you analyze things super carefully and you think you have them perfectly balanced, there will be people capable of farming HM ops and getting gear for PvP much faster than by doing PvP. There will also be people who progress so slowly through HM that it would be faster to gear for HM operations by doing PvP. You absolutely cannot balance this for everybody. There is a reason why we had expertise since the time the game started.

Edited February 2, 2017 by teclado

[DarthDymond]

WoW developers did a good article on this once on the problem with MMOs. It was basically to have a successful MMO you have to first grasp that no one type of customer focus will allow you to succeed because their are not enough of them. Basically, an MMO succeeds by catering to a variety of minority groups that collecitvely make up a player population and success. So there are story players, raiders, PvPers, crafters and decorators, etc. Each group may make up 10% of a customer base.

 

So, if you think SWTOR can survive on those that are just here for story, you might not have been in in the 1.0-1.6 era when that was pretty much what they had and the game almost went belly up as a result. In other words, it will be fine if the PvPers, raiders, dungeon runners go elsewhere. But for those here for just story - guess what? You won't be getting anymore story because there will not be enough customers left to keep the lights on.

 

I agree (and have argued in support of the point) that MMOs need to cater to multiple segments to stay viable. But that doesn't mean they need to cater to every segment in the market. WoW does not need to cater to GSF players in order to succeed, FFXIV does not need to cater to fans of Mini-Pet Battles in order to succeed, etc. An MMO needs to pick an adequate number of target audiences and develop a slate of content (based on its available resources) to try to capture those audiences.

 

It also needs to find its core niche within the crowded MMO field - usually based on some combination of a specific content focus (e.g. Wildstar focusing on old school raids; BDO's sandbox), gameplay mechanics (ESO's active combat), or setting/skin (Champions Online's "play as superheros!"). Even as an MMO is supporting an overall diverse slate of content to appeal to its chosen target audiences, it needs to keep this core differentiating aspect highlighted.

 

Given the resources apparently available, if we want to get advancements in the story through solo-able content like missions and Daily Areas, it seems that the amount of raid content they can put out amounts to about one Op for a year. My point is that there is an audience that is so particularly focused on raids that one raid for the year isn't going to cut it (especially after two years without any at all) - and that specific "Raider" audience is one that SWTOR should accept it's not going to get or hold on to with the resources it seems to have.

 

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a player having the focus of your MMO enjoyment be raids, or that there is anything wrong with saying "I need an MMO to put out more than one Raid a year to keep me interested" - I'm just saying that there are other games out there that include that type of player in their slate of target audiences, and SWTOR would be making a mistake to chase that audience at the expense of other target audiences that are more attainable (particularly given where SWTOR's capacity for releasing content appears to be at).

[MaximumOwnage]

5.0 dropped over 2 months ago...I have been patient.

 

And since it dropped, this is the least amount of time I have ever spent playing this game. I don't even log in. This gear grind has completely broken my will to play.

 

On a positive note, games that I would have never tried or spent time playing have now grabbed my interest. I have always played this game since launch and do not play anything else. But since 5.0 that has changed. And the ONLY thing that has broken my will to play is the gear grind. Nothing else for me.

 

I am becoming so bitter with this development group that I am not sure about my future here. I am not going to lie, I love this game. But I have to be honest, if this issue is not fixed completed within the next 7-10 days I am not sure what my future here will be. As it is now I am trying everything I have not to seriously boycott this game completely.

 

I think that is so sad that I and many other are disgusted with playing this game NOT because of the game per say, but because of an arrogant development group who refuses to listen to its player base and make the changes needed to have a smooth working system. What a shame.

 

It is 100% absolutely certain that the gear grind needs to be removed from this game immediately. 100% certain. However you decide to do that, we don't care just do it now. And in spite of that known fact we have to wait till possibly the end of February. Something like this should have been hot fixed 6 weeks ago. Now I sit in what was a fully active guild 3 months ago, to last night for 3 hours the only one logged in. And we were one of the most active guilds prior to 5.0.

 

Why must we wait? What are you waiting for?

 

Same thing with the ghost town servers. You have at least 8 servers (US and EU) that should have been shut down and removed as an option for new players. This should have been done 1-11/2 years ago. Why are they still online?

 

I mean what the heck is wrong with you people? Why do you wait until the maximum damage has been done before you respond or fix an issue. Why? Why is this? What are you waiting for?

[casirabit]

The first set of changes will likely be next week in Game Update 5.1.1. The second set of changes a few weeks later (likely end of Feb) in 5.1.2. I am working on the final details. I am really hoping to get the post out today with all of the details, tomorrow the latest.

 

-eric

 

Thanks Eric. Have a good day.

[PlasmaJohn]

I just don't see how you reconcile having the same gear for PvP and PvE. There's no way to balance that.

The PvP community figured out that the bolster level of 5.0 pretty much trivialized the gear gap outside of some goofiness with 208's bolstering better than 230's. Reverting 5.1's grind-enforcement change would indeed reconcile GC for PvP and have zero knock-on effects to PvE.

 

But of course BINO insists that the grind is what's going to keep players coming back. *puts out a stack of handi-wipes for the now coffee baptized monitors*

[cyrusramsey]

Eh.. have been waiting and hoping and keep reading about things that will happen and keep seeing assurances, but so far there has been nothing of consequence.

 

Keeping my eyes on how things develop and I am curious for what we're going to be told next, but I've grown increasingly skeptical about any announcement anymore.

 

Come on. Prove me wrong, please.

[GalacticKegger]

The first set of changes will likely be next week in Game Update 5.1.1. The second set of changes a few weeks later (likely end of Feb) in 5.1.2. I am working on the final details. I am really hoping to get the post out today with all of the details, tomorrow the latest.

 

-eric

This bears repeating ...

Eric,

 

WE DO NOT WANT GALACTIC COMMAND.

 

The uproar you're hearing isn't because the system needs work. It's because your players want no part of it.

 

You good folks are finally figuring out what we have been trying to tell you since last fall ... the system will not handle an MMO end game. Galactic Command is a single player tablet RPG achievement system you are trying to adapt because grind is a cheap replacement for content. There is a reason you can't get it right ... it's a square peg in a round hole. You had the perfect peg for that hole before KotFE and removed it, which ended up killing off an entire player base. It's time to get it right.

 

This is supposed to be a AAA MMO - not a single player tablet RPG.

 

What your target audience REALLY wants

We want to progress through end game content difficulty levels with item levels and cleared end boss achievements being the gateway to more difficult content ... not some RPG-centric lottery-based promiscuously-focused XP grind.

 

Raiders (the audience you are trying to placate with this about face fire drill in the first place) want our PRE-4.0 end game progression system back. We want increasing content difficulty progression with fixed, difficulty level appropriate and farmable loot tables supplemented with comm distribution (not unassemled parts) throughout the entire progression chain from elder game to end game ... without crates and without a single trace of lottery RNG.

 

If someone in your organization is relying on GC's success to save face then make Galactic Command exclusive to solo play end game (where it belongs anyway) and leave it out of group play completely. The majority of people who are sniping at the players who want nothing to do with GC won't be playing new large group content anyway for fear of actually having to group with other people to play it. So please listen to the players who fully intend to play it if it's done right . Whose entire guilds are hanging in the balance over this.

Edited February 2, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[RswanBing]

Actually, it is an attempt to keep end game players subbed. If the first boss isn't something totally stupendous it will fail no matter what else they do. The players will unsub and come back when it's done just like story players did for KotFE.

 

This too sure, but I still think there's not a "competitive" team working on this game, compared to other big mmo. We got less and less content, just look at what they call "new planets", that's the same for all parts of this game, except CM. I really doubt they could deliver an operation quicker anyway.

 

I hope I'm wrong for those who still believe in this game, if I'm not, I don't see how this game could find a second breath without being able to work on more content than now.

[josephxp]

Well after following this and hearing we are getting a new operation i re-subbed, a better rate to get the crates and stuff to make it easier is enough to push me towards it, but the new operation is what really got me back. But only as a 60 day to see how this is going and to actually reply to a thread (why they cannot allow preferred/ex-subbed players to respond is beyond me)

 

I mean one of the largest problems i had was no ops drop gear (which we now have but it seems the drop rates will be increased soon). The other is not having an operation. A format like this with each X.0 patch may be a good thing if you cannot make a full operation done then, but releasing a new boss till the operation is full (given its not finished by the time X.0 will be coming) isn't the worst idea, hopefully it will allow less bugs.

 

On top of that glad PTS that is open will be returning, that's a good sign.

 

I'm still skeptical but ill be patient, don't screw it up again.

[RswanBing]

Eh.. have been waiting and hoping and keep reading about things that will happen and keep seeing assurances, but so far there has been nothing of consequence.

 

Keeping my eyes on how things develop and I am curious for what we're going to be told next, but I've grown increasingly skeptical about any announcement anymore.

 

Come on. Prove me wrong, please.

 

Well, telling people to wait for stuff is what this team does for a long time now. I remember how long they remained unclear about operations during all KOTFE era, no clear answer before KOTET details... And I perfectly remember a lot of raiders asking for a clear answer.

 

So they tell players to wait once again, because that's what they do best.

Edited February 2, 2017 by RswanBing

[Deewe]

I have tried to think of another MMO (outside of the SWG NGE) that has gone through such lengths to really anger a good portion of their paying customer base and, honestly, I cannot think of a single one.

Too often I kept being puzzled by the design choices made in this game.

 

From time to time I get some of them but when I do the implementation is way too often poor. Think overdoing things and fine tuning with a caterpillar bull.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Deewe

[DanNV]

This too sure, but I still think there's not a "competitive" team working on this game, compared to other big mmo. We got less and less content, just look at what they call "new planets", that's the same for all parts of this game, except CM. I really doubt they could deliver an operation quicker anyway.

 

I hope I'm wrong for those who still believe in this game, if I'm not, I don't see how this game could find a second breath without being able to work on more content than now.

 

I believe the boss at a time thing is a last gasp attempt to keep people around. I believe it was supposed to be announced now and released near the end of the year with or without a new expansion. But it was not originally supposed to come out in pieces. We're getting it now because people are bailing at an alarming rate and they can't figure out what to do to stop it since they refuse to actually hear what their paying customers have spent 4 months telling them.