Juggernaut Tanking - Avoid like the plague!

[Ichimaruu]

If anyone is thinking of making a juggernaut to tank, think again; this class is severely lacking in the threat department, whilst single target is a pain to try to hold threat, multi-target is a complete mess and will have you running around like a headless chicken frantically trying to round up mobs.

 

Until a patch fixes this, Juggernaut's are not viable to tank Flashpoints at high levels. It seems as if Bioware missed something here; if you give a class heavy armour, it does not mean that he will hold aggro. Who knew?

 

Avoid like the plague.

[Wildfae]

You dont need to. Name a situation that you need to tank more than two mobs and I will point out how your party is doing something wrong. Your goal is to tank the 1 or 2 strongest enemies and let you team clear the trash. If you dont have enough hate to maintain at least one of the elites attention by the time trash is cleared, then you are doing something wrong. If you are having problems in boss fights, you are doing something wrong.

the problem with Jugg is that it requires your team to NOT pull before you and to NOT be focus firing what you are tanking and leaving trash alone. I dont know why but people seem to think that they should down the strongest mob first which causes nothing but chaos. Set the guidelines for your group before each instance and it should be a piece of cake.

[Spyde]

lrn 2 play ?

 

I have never once had issues holding agro on 1-2 mobs at a time.

 

Rest is for CC and weak mobs.

 

And no, im not level 22

[Zhauric]

Sounds more like you need to get out of the WoW Lich King mode where you can tank six mobs at one time with no CC.

[CaptainDil]

It's not the easiest thing to hold threat with low level juggernauts but its not impossible....

 

As far as the "impossible high level" you're talking about, I think that's complete BS because I just hit level 30 and got the AoE taunt as well as another Backhand for threat. So 30+ you have very viable threat manuevers, which leads me to believe you need to l2p.

[SakuHFX]

I have a Jugg and just got my taunt skill at lvl16.

 

I do what the person a few posts above said, take on the big cheesy while your group takes care of the rest.

 

No issues outside of me not upgrading my lightsaber but thats my fault. :/

Edited December 28, 2011 by SakuHFX

[Barzarel]

Actually more concerned with survivability, and fact we have no real means to counter any elemental/force power damage, or internal damage, outside our insanely long CD abilities like Saber Ward or Invincibility which isnt helping alot, and our only heal pet doesn't really have any burst heals to make up for how much damage we take from those damage types.

 

Was fighting a single quest force user sith elite in a quest today, i was going out of my head about how poorly our tools to even stand a chance were, disruption on way longer coolddown than i takes them to spam 4force powers before its off, elite can disregard force scream interuption, which leaves force choke on 50min CD approx if you have the reducer, or force push on 45min coold down with talent reducers, or backhand on 1min CD to interupt between disruption coolddown, or lose 1/3 or 1/4 from each force ability they use, because we have zero non cooldown migitation that work here to any useful degree, saying that with near 19% defense rating, shield rating on around 31% and absorption rating around 26% and around 12k health at 47level.

 

And still they can walk over me like i was a joke, kiting helps nothing, pet without any real burst heal, helps nothing, dps pets die way faster than me with all aoe spamming mob do, its a real anti climax for playing tank, when we not even allowed any real damage against strong or elite mobs, what exactly we supposed to do?

 

Im considering today if to scrap my juggernaut or not, im simply reaching my pain treshold playing this class.

[Trashyy]

If anyone is thinking of making a juggernaut to tank, think again; this class is severely lacking in the threat department, whilst single target is a pain to try to hold threat, multi-target is a complete mess and will have you running around like a headless chicken frantically trying to round up mobs.

 

Until a patch fixes this, Juggernaut's are not viable to tank Flashpoints at high levels. It seems as if Bioware missed something here; if you give a class heavy armour, it does not mean that he will hold aggro. Who knew?

 

Avoid like the plague.

 

You sir/mam are entirely, 100% wrong. I have been tanking high level flash points with ease. This class is obviously too difficult for you to play. So I recommend you re-rolling a Dps class.

 

Spreading false information about Jug tanking is out of line if you ask me. What you are saying is equal to this. "No one should ever try to be an architect. Architecture is too difficult and until it is made easier no one should bother trying it."

 

A couple tips that will make tanking Flashpoints a little easier for you.

 

1.) In each pull there are only a few mobs that HAVE TO BE TANKED. Make sure you have those mobs first.

 

2. Use your ranged ability. Strangle loose outsiders. Throw your weapon at loose outsiders. Force push those elite mobs into gunners on the outside if you want. Be creative.

 

3. Use your aoe taunt as much as you want. Who cares its a tiny cooldown.

 

4. Smash and slash. If you have a pull with 6 mobs.... 1 elite.. Throw your weapon at the outsider and leap into the area with the most mobs in smash/slash distance. Jump in and do it to it.

 

Trust me once you get it, you freaking know it and it feels great as this class in its current state requires you to think.

[revial]

Actually more concerned with survivability, and fact we have no real means to counter any elemental/force power damage, or internal damage, outside our insanely long CD abilities like Saber Ward or Invincibility which isnt helping alot, and our only heal pet doesn't really have any burst heals to make up for how much damage we take from those damage types.

 

Was fighting a single quest force user sith elite in a quest today, i was going out of my head about how poorly our tools to even stand a chance were, disruption on way longer coolddown than i takes them to spam 4force powers before its off, elite can disregard force scream interuption, which leaves force choke on 50min CD approx if you have the reducer, or force push on 45min coold down with talent reducers, or backhand on 1min CD to interupt between disruption coolddown, or lose 1/3 or 1/4 from each force ability they use, because we have zero non cooldown migitation that work here to any useful degree, saying that with near 19% defense rating, shield rating on around 31% and absorption rating around 26% and around 12k health at 47level.

 

And still they can walk over me like i was a joke, kiting helps nothing, pet without any real burst heal, helps nothing, dps pets die way faster than me with all aoe spamming mob do, its a real anti climax for playing tank, when we not even allowed any real damage against strong or elite mobs, what exactly we supposed to do?

 

Im considering today if to scrap my juggernaut or not, im simply reaching my pain treshold playing this class.

 

You don't say what spec of Jugg you are, but if you're Immortal...since this is a tanking thread, you have, off the top of my head, the following ways to interrupt a cast on Hard mob:

 

* Backhand

* Disruption

* Force Push

* Force Choke

* Intimidating Roar

* Force Charge

 

I played a 50 Jug in beta. Twice. It irked me beyond belief how often people would start threads about how Jugs can't kill casting elites due to having no interrupts. Even though I play a Marauder now, it still bugs me to no end watching people spread this lie. Casting mobs are pathetically easy as an Immortal Juggernaut.

Edited December 28, 2011 by revial

[DiLune]

Group communication is also important. Jugg tanking is an art, with crap-tons of abilities to juggle. The last thing you need is for your DPS to be face-rolling, attacking whatever they want. They can do you huge favors by killing the weakest mobs first, then heading up to the strongest. CC helps, but is a pain in the *** (for me) as smash can be pretty valuable in your rotation.

 

We aren't a faceroll tank. If you want to faceroll, or travel with facerollers, don't bother with Jugg.

 

*Edited to Add* I rolled a trooper tank on the Alliance side and swear angrily whenever I'm tanking. So much easier than the Jugg, but I find Jugg far more satisfying.

Edited December 28, 2011 by DiLune

[Kelticfury]

Trust me once you get it, you freaking know it and it feels great as this class in its current state requires you to think.

 

This right here ^^ could be the default answer for just about every post in every class forum about how much their class sucks.

[Wildfae]

People are use to having 3 maybe 4 macros that they can spam for various situations and that just doesnt exist in this game. If they did I could see people set disrupts on one, Rage on another Taunts on another and DPS on the last. I totally see that this is what people want. Some people cannot understand a toon that requires too many clicks to operate efficiently.

[JamieKirby]

You dont need to. Name a situation that you need to tank more than two mobs and I will point out how your party is doing something wrong. Your goal is to tank the 1 or 2 strongest enemies and let you team clear the trash. If you dont have enough hate to maintain at least one of the elites attention by the time trash is cleared, then you are doing something wrong. If you are having problems in boss fights, you are doing something wrong.

the problem with Jugg is that it requires your team to NOT pull before you and to NOT be focus firing what you are tanking and leaving trash alone. I dont know why but people seem to think that they should down the strongest mob first which causes nothing but chaos. Set the guidelines for your group before each instance and it should be a piece of cake.

 

Its not always the case where taking out the weakest first is the best solution.

[Wildfae]

Its not always the case where taking out the weakest first is the best solution.

 

OK name a time that this applies prior to getting your aoe taunt and sweeping?

[Terro_Fett]

Once you have your AOE taunt and sweeping its really easy to keep agro.

 

Leap in, unleash any immediate cc placed on you (that happens a lot), position yourself while AOE taunting, smash, enrage, sweeping slash, backhand main target, sweeping slash, sweeping slash, force scream main target.

 

At this point your AOE threat should be good, if your group is single target killing at this point, just single target DPS yourself, using smash every cooldown. If they're AOEing, use more sweeping slashes.

 

Use force choke, saber throw, force push, and taunt to grab stragglers who either didnt fall into your aoe taunt or get peeled off you. You can also leap to stragglers later on, moving the entire mob with you is often not a big problem.

 

AOE taunt can be used again once its off CD if things start getting dicey on the AOE front

Edited December 28, 2011 by Terro_Fett

[Tersidre]

i am a level 50 jugg tank... ive tanked every heroic ive done with little to no issues.. i tanked most of eternity vault last night... i maybe lost threat once or twice but it was easily correctable... if your having threat issues i suggest more practice because its not an issue for me.

[Trashyy]

"If your having threat problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but threat ain't one."

[Tersidre]

"If your having threat problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but threat ain't one."

 

 

 

^^^^^^

[Taeena]

Have not had any problems with threat , only lvl 32, but i havent grouped for any heroics up to lvl 32 and soloed all with quinn. L2P.Elites are a non issue i blow them up and have 85% hp or more when done. Full immortal tank spec btw for lvling Edited December 29, 2011 by Taeena

[DarkInsidious]

K guy, you set 25 keybinds just so you can be effective.

 

BH Merc Arsenal - tracer missle x3 / power shot / unload

 

SI Sorc Madness or Lightning - force lightning, shock, overload, static barrier, force lightning, shock, overload ... maybe throw in some dots

 

Sniper... w/e - some crap of shots... some crap of shots... snipe, snipe ... some crap of shots

 

Powertech - charge, aoe knockback, pull, rocket punch,flamethrower... railshot... done

 

This is all 1v1.

 

Sith Juggernaut... saber throw, force charge, sundering assault, smash, chilling scream (does no damage), ravage, impale, force scream, (maybe retaliation is up) force push, charge again, sundering assault, smash, impale now first bc maybe it will reset the cooldown on ravage... if not continue on to force scream... Now I've gone through my rotation once and I'm about to go through it again with no push or choke and my opponent is probably around 1/4 of his health. Now while I'm running through this rotation I'm popping Enrage, Endure Pain, and Saber Ward and throwing in disruption for close range interupts if possible for survivability.

 

I use a Razer Naga MMOG so it helps.

 

So what you want to tell me is that this excessive use of button mashing is supposed to appeal to those of us that want to WORK to PLAY?

 

Genius.

 

Focker.

 

Out.

Edited December 29, 2011 by DarkInsidious

[Faolon]

Juggernaut tanking is like Tanking in Vanilla WoW as a Warrior.

 

 

It's fun.

[DarkInsidious]

Juggernaut tanking is like Tanking in Vanilla WoW as a Warrior.

 

 

It's fun.

 

Sure except your sunder is on a 4.5 sec cooldown.

 

Your only mitigation is shielding. No dodge/parry.

 

Armor class hasn't really proved to have any advantage, especially witih a 60% buff.

 

Threat Gen needs a lot of work. Most Juggs require assissting/support.

 

And you have to spec in to a dps talent tree for immunities.

[Kelticfury]

So what you want to tell me is that this excessive use of button mashing is supposed to appeal to those of us that want to WORK to PLAY?

 

In order to play that awesome sith lord that we all carry in our hearts, yeah. We put up with the added annoyance of many many binds.

 

My tank is a guardian though, my sith is marauder

 

EDIT: I have erm... (off the top of my head, at work atm) 13 someodd bindings for my marauder.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Kelticfury

[Faolon]

Sure except your sunder is on a 4.5 sec cooldown.

 

You have talents to make it give you the ability to stack additional sunders, as well as make that ability a great rage builder.

 

 

 

 

Your only mitigation is shielding. No dodge/parry.

 

 

DE FENSE! *stompstompstomp* DE FENSE! *stompstompstomp*

Stack defense. This gives you dodge and parry.

 

And in case you didn't notice, retaliation adds more defense when spec'd into it.

 

 

 

Armor class hasn't really proved to have any advantage, especially witih a 60% buff.

 

Additional armor provides additional damage reduction to certain types of damage.

 

 

Threat Gen needs a lot of work. Most Juggs require assissting/support.

 

Just like Vanilla WoW Tanking.

 

 

 

And you have to spec in to a dps talent tree for immunities.

 

This bothers me. I see a lot of talents in the Vengeance tree that would be a better fit in Immortal.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Faolon

[DarkInsidious]

In order to play that awesome sith lord that we all carry in our hearts, yeah. We put up with the added annoyance of many many binds.

 

My tank is a guardian though, my sith is marauder

 

EDIT: I have erm... (off the top of my head, at work atm) 13 someodd bindings for my marauder.

 

sure let's talk about marauder when we're clearly on the topic of juggernaut.

 

please, do tell.

 

and those 13 binds are probably attacks. I'm sure you probably click most of your defensive and long cooldowns where as I just button mash them all.

Edited December 29, 2011 by DarkInsidious