So we're getting a new operation....but you're unlocking each boss during the year?

[Vember]

but it also shouldnt take 8 months .

 

I seriously doubt that it will.

[Andryah]

If my facts are wrong, then post data to prove otherwise. Just saying its wrong doesnt make it wrong. Not saying I dont believe you. But I just started and the starting area is flooded with people still. And the fact that they can hold the game afloat with a sub only system speaks pretty much for itself.

 

This attempt by you has already been played out by Wayshuba about a week ago, in which he insisted that they had 800K-1200K concurrent players in FFXIV and that it would soon surpasse WoW.... which of course sounded extremely fishy and was worthy of a little investigation.

 

The MMO version of Square Enix’s Final Fantasy franchise retains the tone and core mechanics that is so at home in the beloved series. As such, it’s no surprise that Final Fantasy XIV has a dedicated fanbase. Featuring colossal lands to traverse, accessibility to any sort of gamer, tons of customizable content, and compelling storytelling, FFXIV is a must-try for any hardcore Final Fantasy fan. Do it for the Chocobo!

 

As for the worldwide population, FFXIV has approximately 320,000 active players (124,000 in the US, 143,000 in Japan, and 55,000 in Europe). Nevertheless, Final Fantasy XIV’s official website boasts over 6 million accounts created and is a worthy addition to our list of most played MMORPG games as FFXIV’s fanbase is still growing every day with tons of content updates.

source: http://igcritic.com/most-played-mmorpg-games-of-2016/

 

Accounts created since launch: 6Million+

 

Active player count: Just under 320K world wide, 124K US, and 50K EU (not sure why it is not so popular in EU)

 

Concurrent player count (using the 10% rule): ~ 13,000 concurrent players (players logged in at the same time)

 

Now.. the article I linked and quoted the FFXIV section for you.. actually goes about assessing the most played MMOs in 2016. It is dated about 10 months ago, so numbers may be a bit different... but not materially so, being as they appear to have a fairly normal retention ratio of accounts created VS active subscriptions. Honestly.. with how much some players hype it as being golden as an MMO.. it's retention ratio does not support the contention.

 

Note: I'm in no way saying FFXIV is not doing well in the market.. it is.. but not nearly as well as some of the talking points being used recently in the forum here to promote FFXIV as the new sliced bread to replace SWTOR.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah

[Renata_Roselli]

Considering that the new HM of the Operation, all bosses will be equivalent to pre-nerf HM Revan or harder. They specifically said this in the livestream. HM and Nightmare Mode of this operation is only for hardcore raiders. The first boss is in April, then one a month after. Since all the hardcore raid groups from 3.0 left, I don't see 4.0 and 5.0 raiders clearing the first boss in a month. People will still be on the first boss by the time the second drops.

[TUXs]

source: http://igcritic.com/most-played-mmorpg-games-of-2016/

 

Accounts created since launch: 6Million+

 

Active player count: Just under 320K world wide, 124K US, and 50K EU (not sure why it is not so popular in EU)

 

Concurrent player count (using the 10% rule): ~ 13,000 concurrent players (players logged in at the same time)

 

Now.. the article I linked and quoted the FFXIV section for you.. actually goes about assessing the most played MMOs in 2016. It is dated about 10 months ago, so numbers may be a bit different... but not materially so.

 

Note: I'm in no way saying FFXIV is not doing well in the market.. it is.. but not nearly as well as some of the talking points being used recently in the forum here to promote FFXIV as the new sliced bread to replace SWTOR.

That article is a year old. I know over half my guild went there since that time.

[Andryah]

Honestly you guys should be surprised they are even making Something akin to OPs.

 

Pretty much anyone understood that OPs were dead and yet they changed their mind.

 

While I am cautiously optimistic, and my guild is excited to see some new OP content coming, we also are tempering expectations because this is a new approach by the studio and they do have a history of doing new approaches, assessing the success, and walking away if the success is simply not realized. So as a guild, we are not predicating our enjoyment of SWTOR on this latest "promise".

 

If I recall correctly, about the time they stopped doing new OPs... there was also evidence that the lead designer for OPs had moved on to another company.. so I expect that triggered a review in Austin to determine whether to hire a replacement or go in another direction. I think the last two years has shown which way they chose. And it's not trivial content that can be stamped out by a bunch of interns... it's probably the most difficult MMO content to actually produce well. So I can sort of see why they went the way they did, even though it was not a popular decision with some of the player base. Note: I am not defending their choice, only observing what appear to be the drivers behind it.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah

[Gelious]

1 new Boss per update is better then no new Bosses. But not much better, just a tiny-tiny part better.

[Andryah]

Considering that the new HM of the Operation, all bosses will be equivalent to pre-nerf HM Revan or harder. They specifically said this in the livestream. HM and Nightmare Mode of this operation is only for hardcore raiders. The first boss is in April, then one a month after. Since all the hardcore raid groups from 3.0 left, I don't see 4.0 and 5.0 raiders clearing the first boss in a month. People will still be on the first boss by the time the second drops.

 

And here is the problem with that take by the studio ----> it's insufficient for hard core progression raiders, who have mostly left already anyway, and too difficult for the average casual guild that raids casually (even if aggressively).

 

I expect they will follow through on the plan, and I expect they will collect data and find that it is grossly underplayed content.. and they will have given it a second chance with the player base and once again concluded it is underplayed content.. and cut it from future content efforts again. This may or may not come true.. but it is precisely why I encourage people to temper their expectations.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah

[TUXs]

1 new Boss per update is better then no new Bosses. But not much better, just a tiny-tiny part better.

Is it better enough to bring back Ops players? Do you think it will encourage players to stay subbed during the one year development of it?

[Wayshuba]

This attempt by you has already been played out by Wayshuba about a week ago, in which he insisted that they had 800K-1200K concurrent players in FFXIV and that it would soon surpasse WoW.... which of course sounded extremely fishy and was worthy of a little investigation.

 

source: http://igcritic.com/most-played-mmorpg-games-of-2016/

 

Accounts created since launch: 6Million+

 

Active player count: Just under 320K world wide, 124K US, and 50K EU (not sure why it is not so popular in EU)

 

Concurrent player count (using the 10% rule): ~ 13,000 concurrent players (players logged in at the same time)

 

Now.. the article I linked and quoted the FFXIV section for you.. actually goes about assessing the most played MMOs in 2016. It is dated about 10 months ago, so numbers may be a bit different... but not materially so, being as they appear to have a fairly normal retention ratio of accounts created VS active subscriptions. Honestly.. with how much some players hype it as being golden as an MMO.. it's retention ratio does not support the contention.

 

Note: I'm in no way saying FFXIV is not doing well in the market.. it is.. but not nearly as well as some of the talking points being used recently in the forum here to promote FFXIV as the new sliced bread to replace SWTOR.

 

Dude, you and I went through this last week. You keep spreading your false agenda on the concurrents because you REFUSE to acknowledge the context of the phrasing in that article.

 

So answer this, that article lists SWTOR as number 10 with 9k-18k CONCURRENT subs. How is FFXIV No 2 on that list with 13k concurrent palyers as you claim? How is FFXIV ahead of ESO listed with 250k simultaneous players?

 

Furthermore, how does SE report that FXIV accounts for almost 50% of their digital revenues (which was $1.7 billion last year) with only 324k total players? The math doesn't add up nor does your reasoning of the aritcle you linked.

 

You continue to hinge on your interpretation of two words in a sentence rather than taking the whole article into context. And you know how you are wrong, because if you they meant what you say they mean, FFXIV would be 10th on the list - not second.

 

Here is another couple tidbits for you:

SWTOR - 17 servers with an average estimate of 12k concurrent players.

FFXIV - 64 servers with 20 of them cut off from new character creation because they are so full (but at least they have indicated they are going to be ADDING servers to deal with the heavy congestion on all the servers)

 

You keep trying to downplay that FFXIV is not as successful as they are. Well when the CEO of Square Enix mentions that FFXIV was almost 50% of their digital revenue - or somewhere in the realm of $600 million - you really expect people to believe that 324k players are all spending $1,850 on the game in a year (which is impossible since they do not have enough optional items in Mog Station to do that).

Edited January 27, 2017 by Wayshuba

[menofhorror]

While I am cautiously optimistic, and my guild is excited to see some new OP content coming, we also are tempering expectations because this is a new approach by the studio and they do have a history of doing new approaches, assessing the success, and walking away if the success is simply not realized. So as a guild, we are not predicating our enjoyment of SWTOR on this latest "promise".

 

If I recall correctly, about the time they stopped doing new OPs... there was also evidence that the lead designer for OPs had moved on to another company.. so I expect that triggered a review in Austin to determine whether to hire a replacement or go in another direction. I think the last two years has shown which way they chose. And it's not trivial content that can be stamped out by a bunch of interns... it's probably the most difficult MMO content to actually produce well. So I can sort of see why they went the way they did, even though it was not a popular decision with some of the player base. Note: I am not defending their choice, only observing what appear to be the drivers behind it.

 

Well I wasn't saying to jump on the hype train. This would be silly, especially after those 2 weak years. Bioware Austin doesn't deserve praise from the subreddit or the forums. They deserve the harsh treatment (the company, not the individual devs). Despite me being pleasently surprised you should indeed be cautious.Because you know that the dissapointment is strong with Bioware Austin.

 

Also it is probably smarter to unsub, come back for 5.2 and then see if you have fun.

 

Of course for a full on progression guild it's not enough but at least they throw a bone.

And the most important aspect is that this time it's not only one type of content. Story is coming too (of course the question is wheter the quality of the story is good as well since we know how tight their budget is)

[Shwarzchild]

Is it better enough to bring back Ops players? Do you think it will encourage players to stay subbed during the one year development of it?

 

I've resubbed to the end of April now because of the news. If the boss, and by extension the other bosses released, are quality mechanically, and have story attached to them (like the Dread council did) then I'll stay subbed for the whole year. The jury is out though. Some that I've talked to are very much jaded and others are very much excited. So the conclusion has to be "time will tell".

[Andryah]

Dude, you and I went through this last week. You keep spreading your false agenda on the concurrents because you REFUSE to acknowledge the context of the phrasing in that article.

 

So answer this, that article lists SWTOR as number 10 with 9k-18k CONCURRENT subs. How is FFXIV No 2 on that list with 13k concurrent palyers as you claim? How is FFXIV ahead of ESO listed with 250k simultaneous players?

 

Furthermore, how does SE report that FXIV accounts for almost 50% of their digital revenues (which was $1.7 billion last year) with only 324k total players? The math doesn't add up nor does your reasoning of the aritcle you linked.

 

You continue to hinge on your interpretation of two words in a sentence rather than taking the whole article into context. And you know how you are wrong, because if you they meant what you say they mean, FFXIV would be 10th on the list - not second.

 

I do not have an agenda dude, other then the truth, wherever it lands. You on the other hand DO have an agenda and you have been peddling it heavily in this forum of late. It is you that continue to hinge on your own personal interpretation of two words in a sentence, where I am using the generally accepted definition for those words.

 

Anyone that is interested in playing FFXIV, I wish them well and encourage them to do so. Just do it based on coherent data, not conflated use of data. Please note that nowhere have I trash talked your precious FFXIV... only stated that your claims of 800K-1200K concurrent players is BS and provided an actual sourcing for a better understanding of what the real numbers are. FFXIV is doing well, and is a good MMO... just not as well as you are peddling, and it's got qualities that do not appeal to everyone.

 

I know it kills you to be wrong about FFXIV being bigger then WoW in a year.. but there is simply no evidence of this whatsoever.

 

 

So answer this, that article lists SWTOR as number 10 with 9k-18k CONCURRENT subs. How is FFXIV No 2 on that list with 13k concurrent palyers as you claim? How is FFXIV ahead of ESO listed with 250k simultaneous players?

 

Stop trying so hard to dig yourself out of the hole you created with bogus data.

 

Please take time to note: I specifically stated a 13,000 concurrent players for FFXIV in North America, and I clearly stated so. The SWTOR numbers being quoted in the article are NA + EU. If we take the known active subs listed world wide in that article.. then FFXIV concurrent players world wide would be on the order of 32,000.

 

The reason I stated NA concurrent players based on the 10% rule and the data provided was because the EU numbers were small, and the Japan numbers do not apply (show me any evidence of NA players playing on Japan server in any real volume) ... whereas SWTOR does not have Japan servers, and NA and EU servers appear to be roughly equal sizing in terms of players.

 

In reality, only concurrent players in your region actually apply as those in other regions are typically not concurrently online with you due to wide time zone differences. There are always some, but they are in the noise in terms of data analysis.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah

[kodrac]

I guess I should log in sometime before April.

[DarthWoad]

I do not have an agenda dude, other then the truth, wherever it lands. You on the other hand DO have an agenda and you have been peddling it heavily in this forum of late. It is you that continue to hinge on your own personal interpretation of two words in a sentence, where I am using the generally accepted definition for those words

 

Anyone that is interested in playing FFXIV, I wish them well and encourage them to do so. Just do it based on coherent data, not conflated use of data. Please note that nowhere have I trash talked you precious FFXIV... only stated that your claims of 800K-1200K concurrent players is BS and provided an actual sourcing for a better understanding of what the real numbers are. FFXIV is doing well, and is a good MMO... just not as well as you are peddling, and it's go qualities that do not appeal to everyone.

 

I know it kills you to be wrong about FFXIV being bigger then WoW in a year.. but there is simply no evidence of this whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

Stop trying so hard to dig yourself out of the hole you created with bogus data.

 

Please take time to note: I specifically stated a 13,000 concurrent players for FFXIV in North America, and I clearly stated so. The SWTOR numbers being quoted in the article are NA + EU. If we take the known active subs listed world wide in that article.. then FFXIV concurrent players world wide would be on the order of 32,000.

 

The reason I stated NA concurrent players based on the 10% rule and the data provided was because the EU numbers were small, and the Japan numbers do not apply... whereas SWTOR does not have Japan servers, and NA and EU servers appear to be roughly equal sizing in terms of players.

 

You obviously have an agenda, Andryah. You refuse to listen to what he's saying and refuse to acknowledge the facts. I've seen your posts over the years and it's pretty obvious.

[Wayshuba]

Stop trying so hard to dig yourself out of the hole you created with bogus data.

 

Here, even though this article is now over a year old.... 800,000 - 1.2 million estimated regular subscribers and 5 million total subscribers to date. And they clarify that the figure is only PAYING accounts and does not include free trials.

 

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/final-fantasy-xiv-has-had-5-million-subscribers-is-second-most-popular-subscriptionbased-mmo-33713

 

Since that time, they have passed they have added another 1 million since then.

 

So yes, I mis-spoke earlier with the 800k-1.2m concurrents when it was subs. But it is a far cry from the fiction you have been posting.

 

Secondly, as for overtaking WoW, ask yourself why after ten years of reporting subs did Activision decide to stop reporting once they got down to the 5.5 million mark.

 

Finally, as to excluding Japan, you do remember when this game has Asia Pacific servers, no?

[mysidehun]

Finally getting a new operation, nice.

Wether it will work out fine or not remains to be seen... but remembering what the devs have done so far, think I'll will remain skeptic for the time being.

[kodrac]

You obviously have an agenda, Andryah. You refuse to listen to what he's saying and refuse to acknowledge the facts. I've seen your posts over the years and it's pretty obvious.

 

I think Andryah's agenda is more to common sense. A little misguided at times - trying to push people to see things differently or to see a wider perspective - and maybe even a little over the top - it does get frustrating when you can't get through to people that already have their minds made up - but overall it's not an agenda per se.

Edited January 27, 2017 by kodrac

[Andryah]

I think Andryah's agenda is more to common sense. A little misguided at times - trying to push people to see things differently or to see a wider perspective - and maybe even a little over the top - it does get frustrating when you can't get through to people that already have their minds made up - but overall it's not an agenda per se.

 

Absolutely right on the common sense part. Fiction or opinion presented as fact is not common sense in any way.

 

My mind is not made up on anything. I simply take each theory or alleged fact presented and check and verify it before agreeing to side with it. If I find the theory or alleged fact to be inaccurate, I say so, say why, and provide supporting information if required. If there were more actual objective and critical thinking applied in the context of some of the theories in this forum, I would rarely have to comment.... because someone else would have already done so before me. And at times.. that does happen..... and I do not need to comment one way or the other.

 

I really do not understand why disagreement offered up in discussions on something that can be easily verified to be false is so objectionable.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah

[JediAkemi]

Well if we're going to talk about other MMOs, I may as well say "If my graphics card could handle it, I'd go back to Star Trek Online for a bit"... because I really miss the space combat in STO. I want to fly around in my Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, blasting the Borg into oblivion. I miss my half-Bajoran medic lady. I miss being able to shout anime attack names in chat when I used my ships' heaviest hits (nearly all my ships were named after characters from Sailor Moon, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica). Yeah, I sucked at ground combat, which frankly wasn't much fun anyway, but the game was so pretty.

 

SWtOR for ground combat. STO for space combat. :)

[curulz]

Absolutely right on the common sense part.

 

My mind is not made up on anything. I simply take each theory or alleged fact presented and check and verify it before agreeing to side with it. If I find the theory or alleged fact to be inaccurate, I say so, say why, and provide supporting information if required.

 

I really do not understand why disagreement offered up in discussions on something that can be easily verified to be false is so objectionable.

 

And while I don't always agree with you, you're a worthy debater in making your point.

[Andryah]

Well if we're going to talk about other MMOs, I may as well say "If my graphics card could handle it, I'd go back to Star Trek Online for a bit"... because I really miss the space combat in STO. I want to fly around in my Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, blasting the Borg into oblivion. I miss my half-Bajoran medic lady. I miss being able to shout anime attack names in chat when I used my ships' heaviest hits (nearly all my ships were named after characters from Sailor Moon, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica). Yeah, I sucked at ground combat, which frankly wasn't much fun anyway, but the game was so pretty.

 

SWtOR for ground combat. STO for space combat. :)

 

Heh... EVE Online for space combat.. hands down. And some of the best large scale PvP in the industry. But some players do not want their player avatar to be a ship... so it does not appeal to everyone. The skill system does turn off some players in EVE.. but I really like it... particularly as it was in my view the best horizontal progression system ever deployed in an MMO. But some people just see spreadsheets and puke.

 

Personally, I love the Star Trek IP... but was unimpressed with Star Trek Online.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah

[kodrac]

I really do not understand why disagreement offered up in discussions on something that can be easily verified to be false is so objectionable.

 

1. People don't like to be disagreed with. Diplomacy is an art from.

2. Facts don't align with agendas or common misconceptions. That's why we have the term "alternate facts" now.

Edited January 27, 2017 by kodrac

[JediAkemi]

Heh... EVE Online for space combat.. hands down. And some of the best large scale PvP in the industry. But some players do not want their player avatar to be a ship... so it does not appeal to everyone. The skill system does turn off some players in EVE.. but I really like it... particularly as it was in my view the best horizontal progression system ever deployed in an MMO. But some people just see spreadsheets and puke.

 

Personally, I love the Star Trek IP... but was unimpressed with Star Trek Online.

 

Loving the Star Trek IP is a large part of why I played STO (on my previous computer, that while inferior to my current one in all other respects, actually had a decent graphics card).

Loving the Star Wars IP is a large part of why I stick with SWtOR

[Wayshuba]

I really do not understand why disagreement offered up in discussions on something that can be easily verified to be false is so objectionable.

 

Because you have pointed to one sentence in an article, derived a bit of your own information (that concurrent represents 10% of the sub base) and have hung your fact on that as proof positive that FFXIV is not doing that well.

 

I have given links to self-reported information from SE which clearly contradicts that third-party article, have given information on servers showing that that article is most likely very incorrect and also stated that one only need look at the claims made by the CEO of Square Enix to the percentage of total digital revenue to show that, in fact, FFXIV is doing great.

 

You have hung on one sentence whereas I have provided multiple data points to prove that one sentence you are hanging on is probably the actual incorrect one. Where is it stated, anywhere, that 13k is the concurrent users in FFXIV. No where. You completely made that up. Not only that, it doesn't even jive with the article you linked placing SWTOR No. 10 (out of 10) with an estimated 9k-18k concurrents.

 

Furthermore, the article I linked had them reach 5 million subscribed users (not all current) on July 4, 2015. By July 20, 2016 they announced they passed the 6 million mark. Another one million unique subscribers (and they always clarify that number excludes free trial accounts).

 

We are now in January of 2017. They have yet to say what that count is but considering today, Jan 27th, they announced they are locking 20 of their 64 servers from having any new characters created due to heavy server loads I have a feeling that the actual number of players/subscribers today is much higher than that article I linked from 2015.

 

You refuse to acknowledge that plethora of information and facts I have provided and use one sentence from a third party article over a year old to lay claim that you have presented the facts proving my statements wrong. Give me a break.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Wayshuba

[Andryah]

You refuse to acknowledge that plethora of information and facts I have provided and use one sentence from a third party article over a year old to lay claim that you have presented the facts proving my statements wrong. Give me a break.

 

LMAO. Just like in the other thread.. you appear to be bad at analysis (or at the least biased) and you are only open to your own personal facts and so there is no point in discussing this with you. FFXIV has less then 500K active subscribers World Wide, per multiple sources on the internet. The data presented in the linked article that you misrepresent is simply one of them (and gives more analysis then you, or most other sources on the question). Being as the article is a from a site that follows the genre and is looking at the top MMOs, and rank ordering them based on data ... at least it is trying to be objective in putting them into a ranked ordering, and presenting data for why the ranking is as it is.

 

The only reason I have commented in the other thread and this one is so that other players do not just take what you say at face value and then repeat it so it becomes an alternate-fact meme in the forum. We have enough false facts and ideas in the forum as it is. I'll leave it to other readers to read both my posts and yours and decide for themselves which one is being objective and which one has an agenda. I'm not going to debate your propaganda just to give you more posting cycles in the forum.

 

Personally, I do not understand you obsession with talking up FFXIV when you apparently have not yet played it yourself, and you are here in this forum talking down SWTOR at every possible opportunity. Much less making up false facts to support your crusade. What exactly are you gaining from this tactic? Is it that you need a crowd following you before you feel brave enough to move from SWTOR to FFXIV? Or do you think you can somehow shame Austin into copying FFXIVs approach and roadmap?

 

In closing... Cliff Notes version for those inclined to even care:

 

1) FFXIV has publicly disclosed that 6 million accounts have been opened since launch. (which does not in any way answer the question of "active subscriptions"

 

2) The article I linked specifically delves into available data for a number of MMOs in order to put them into a ranked order in terms of active player size. It's a pretty objective review and ranking.

 

3) The results of the article in the context of FFXIV is that world wide active subscription numbers at the time that number 1 above was stated -------> 320K subs, with 123K of those being in North America, and 50K+ in EU.

 

4) by any measure FFXIV is a healthy and active MMO in the market at this time. And no signs of it collapsing. That said.. it very much appears to suffer similar attrition and retention issues that other MMOs do...... 6M accounts, 320K active.......... nothing spectacular... but noting daunting either in todays market.

 

5) I'm sure we will see a refresh of the article or a similar one soon that updates the last 10 months with new data, and I expect we will see that FFXIV is still doing well, but that there is absolutely no way it has 800K+ concurrent players, much less overtaking WoWs world wide numbers. It won't even overtake WoWs US numbers. Nor does it have to.. except for those who only play and MMO because it is the biggest in the market.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah