The new bolster level

[TrixxieTriss]

I did more testing with 230 vs 208 ear and relic pieces, both augmented with the old lvl 65 augments. I tested them with and without. The 208 ear with augment gave better stats than the 230 with augment. Without the augment the 230 had slightly better health and small amount of damage stats, but less of the secondary stats.

I also did some weapon tests with 230 hilts, 230 mods and enhancements, but also 228 ones too.

I know Hottie already did this before the Bolster nerf and it seemed to actually be working where 242 BiS, but 230 was bolstering properly and evenly. 228 had weird issues then as well. But you would think with the Bolster reduction to 232, that 228 gear would bolster correctly and even 230 gear would.

In just about every test, my 208 gear had an "all round" better balance of stats than 228 and 230.

All this shows is that Bolster might have had its theoretical cap reduced, but they took no steps to actually fix the bugs. At least when it was set at 250 it was smoother and most things except 228 seemed to bolster correctly.

The only people that will have balanced stats and bolstered correctly are the 242 people. This is why most of them don't see a problem.

 

I've got to the 5th Feb till the sub runs out, so if I get bored I'll do some more tests

[jedcjedcjedc]

posts to people who have much more time and experience in this game

How would you know how much time or experience he has?

[TrixxieTriss]

How would you know how much time or experience he has?

 

Because they didn't start posting till 2017. They either woke up one day after playing for years and decided to start arguing constantly with everyone in the game or they only just started playing

[BenduKundalini]

I'm still wondering whether I should use 228 purple moddings or green/blue 230's. Old reflex that greens will be badly bolstered : yes or nope?

 

Also with the nerf to 232 bolster, how well are 208s doing compared to the rest?

 

Any feedback would be highly appreciated!

Edited January 28, 2017 by BenduKundalini

[TrixxieTriss]

I'm still wondering whether I should use 228 purple moddings or green/blue 230's. Old reflex that greens will be badly bolstered : yes or nope?

 

Also with the nerf to 232 bolster, how well are 208s doing compared to the rest?

 

Any feedback would be highly appreciated!

 

It's hit and miss at the moment.

 

I did some testing with some 208, 228 and 230 gear and got mixed results in both stats and also real world experience in pvp.

I'm sticking with 208s mostly.

[BenduKundalini]

Hmm okay thanks.

[DarthRaika]

The last couple days the gear gap has really become noticeable in solo ranked. There were players that weren't much of a threat (i.e. one mara was near 500 wins, 1400 rating, and never much of a threat but is now rating up quickly and hits much harder than others). This change was gear based only. Also, there are people in DVL with 20k more hp than everyone else! Solo ranked has q sync'n, wintrading, etc. and so of course many people will do whatever they can to get a gear advantage.

 

I'm only playing ranked until gold and going to alts so I'm in 208s (on 3rd char this season). This gear gap is going to make ranked very frustrating for me and I'm an experienced player. I can't imagine what it will do to people trying out ranked for the first time.

 

I'll give it a few more days and then I'll prob unsub till the next season or until they make the game alt friendly again. I hate unsubing but it really is the only way we can reach BW. You can still get gold with 208's but it will be frustrating when you see the stat disparity and a video game is supposed to be fun stress relief not another frustration.

[stoopicus]

Yeah, I think the *basics* from Hottie's thread still apply if you're under cap. It gets real weird when you go near or over cap and are mixing, which is unfortunately where a lot of us are.

 

Basically though you will want to keep your hilts and armorings at higher levels as they directly affect non-diminishing-return stats (weapon level feeds into pri damage and bonus, plus the force/tech power stat; same with armorings in offhands. Armorings in other slots feed into armor and damage reduction by gear level too.)

 

So my advice would be to upgrade hilts/barrels and armorings to the best you can (even 228), while keeping the rest 208 until you can go 230 or higher. But there's no substitute for testing yourself. I use the fleet bolsterizer for this; there's some reports that it bolsters slightly differently than WZs but I have not noticed much difference and it will at least give you an idea.

 

Also, augments are weird too, I think you want to go max level with them like hilts, but I am not sure yet.

 

HTH. tl;dr, testing yourself is the only way to be sure now.

[Ranstasia]

I did more testing with 230 vs 208 ear and relic pieces, both augmented with the old lvl 65 augments. I tested them with and without. The 208 ear with augment gave better stats than the 230 with augment. Without the augment the 230 had slightly better health and small amount of damage stats, but less of the secondary stats.

I also did some weapon tests with 230 hilts, 230 mods and enhancements, but also 228 ones too.

I know Hottie already did this before the Bolster nerf and it seemed to actually be working where 242 BiS, but 230 was bolstering properly and evenly. 228 had weird issues then as well. But you would think with the Bolster reduction to 232, that 228 gear would bolster correctly and even 230 gear would.

In just about every test, my 208 gear had an "all round" better balance of stats than 228 and 230.

All this shows is that Bolster might have had its theoretical cap reduced, but they took no steps to actually fix the bugs. At least when it was set at 250 it was smoother and most things except 228 seemed to bolster correctly.

The only people that will have balanced stats and bolstered correctly are the 242 people. This is why most of them don't see a problem.

 

I've got to the 5th Feb till the sub runs out, so if I get bored I'll do some more tests

 

This is incorrect and bordering on false information. It is very shameful to lie and it is the prerogative of the ignorant to conjure truth from wish. The current bolster sets a person to 232. One with a full set of gear at 232 will be bolstered correctly, i.e. will loose nothing and will gain nothing. This I have now tried with a sample statistically well inside a 96 % margin.Having spent three days working this out for my self doing pvp which (in my opinion) is a challenge to my muscle memory but not my intellect.

 

Bolster at the level currently experienced is pretty much on par with what for all I know intended. 242 is 10 levels above 232 which equals a bit less than 5 %%.

 

This is intended afaik an about equal to the difference that 208 (after upgrading to BiS) was to the old( to some perfect) 204 in 4.0.

 

So as some already have pointed out. If we are to improve pvp lets focus on actual issues and not rainbows.

[stoopicus]

This is incorrect and bordering on false information. It is very shameful to lie and it is the prerogative of the ignorant to conjure truth from wish. The current bolster sets a person to 232. One with a full set of gear at 232 will be bolstered correctly, i.e. will loose nothing and will gain nothing. This I have now tried with a sample statistically well inside a 96 % margin.Having spent three days working this out for my self doing pvp which (in my opinion) is a challenge to my muscle memory but not my intellect.

 

Bolster at the level currently experienced is pretty much on par with what for all I know intended. 242 is 10 levels above 232 which equals a bit less than 5 %%.

 

This is intended afaik an about equal to the difference that 208 (after upgrading to BiS) was to the old( to some perfect) 204 in 4.0.

 

So as some already have pointed out. If we are to improve pvp lets focus on actual issues and not rainbows.

 

Actually AFAICT what she said is accurate. What we are seeing is simply the same effect as was observed in all of Hottie's testing, just now capped at 232 instead of 250. In other words, 208 bolstering better than 228 (which is what Trixxie said) is exactly the same behavior as we were seeing before. I haven't tested to verify but I would believe it since that was thoroughly vetted before.

 

Unless I missed something? What specifically did you think she was lying about?

Edited January 29, 2017 by stoopicus

[Ranstasia]

Actually AFAICT what she said is accurate. What we are seeing is simply the same effect as was observed in all of Hottie's testing, just now capped at 232 instead of 250. In other words, 208 bolstering better than 228 (which is what Trixxie said) is exactly the same behavior as we were seeing before. I haven't tested to verify but I would believe it since that was thoroughly vetted before.

 

Unless I missed something? What specifically did you think she was lying about?

 

That the only ones bolstered correctly are the ones in 242 gear. This is incorrect and from someone that is an expert in pvp based on falsification or ignorance.

[Ranstasia]

Actually AFAICT what she said is accurate. What we are seeing is simply the same effect as was observed in all of Hottie's testing, just now capped at 232 instead of 250. In other words, 208 bolstering better than 228 (which is what Trixxie said) is exactly the same behavior as we were seeing before. I haven't tested to verify but I would believe it since that was thoroughly vetted before.

 

Unless I missed something? What specifically did you think she was lying about?

 

 

Maths sometimes hurt, sometimes injure, sometimes hate, sometime love. But maths will never tell a lie.

[stoopicus]

That the only ones bolstered correctly are the ones in 242 gear. This is incorrect and from someone that is an expert in pvp based on falsification or ignorance.

 

Ahh, I get it. We're definitely reading that line in her post differently.

 

The way I read that was that she was reinforcing her earlier description that the way bolster is working 208-230 is NOT really as you might expect and that increasing gear from 208 to 230 may actually hurt you stat-wise (specifically at 228), and the only people really immune to confusion there were people above that cap, where there are no bolster issues. She unfortunately specifically said 242 so I guess that might be confusing?

 

Regardless, assuming I read it right, that's simply factually correct, assuming Hottie's testing still holds below 232, which I have no reason to think otherwise. I agree it would have been better phrased as "234 and above" than 242 though, yeah.

Edited January 29, 2017 by stoopicus

[Ranstasia]

Ahh, I get it. We're definitely reading that line in her post differently.

 

The way I read that was that she was reinforcing her earlier description that the way bolster is working 208-230 is NOT really as you might expect and that increasing gear from 208 to 230 may actually hurt you stat-wise (specifically at 228), and the only people really immune to confusion there were people above that cap, where there are no bolster issues. She unfortunately specifically said 242 so I guess that might be confusing?

 

Regardless, assuming I read it right, that's simply factually correct, assuming Hottie's testing still holds below 232, which I have no reason to think otherwise. I agree it would have been better phrased as "234 and above" than 242 though, yeah.

 

How would it not be confusing? Presenting facts as is are not open to interpretation, to criticism yes, to questioning yes, to interpretation based on what one wish or believe no. "I assume" "I believe" "I think" is used when not stating facts.

 

To go into actual straw man rhetoric and not use the term as so many around here do without knowing what it is. The planet we inhabit called earth or Tellus is in rotation around a yellow sun. I dare you to challenge this fact as I present it as is.

 

GOD exists, I dare you to challenge this fact as I present it as is.

 

One is today a pretty much unquestioned truth one is based on belief.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ranstasia
expanding

[stoopicus]

How would it not be confusing? Presenting facts as is are not open to interpretation, to criticism yes, to questioning yes, to interpretation based on what one wish or believe no. "I assume" "I believe" "I think" is used when not stating

.

 

To go into actual straw man rhetoric and not use the term as so many around here do without knowing what it is. The planet we inhabit called earth or Tellus is rotation around a yellow sun. I dare you to challenge this fact as I present it as is.

 

GOD exists, I dare you to challenge this fact as I present it as is.

 

One is today a pretty much unquestioned truth one is based on belief.

 

Facts exist. Are you claiming I incorrectly stated facts about sub-cap bolster behavior? Because there's quite a bit of empirical testing backing that up.

 

Other peoples' statements are open to interpretation. I was simply giving you my interpretation of what she had said.

 

My suggestion - take a step back for a moment and calm down. You're calling someone a liar here and (frankly) ranting a bit where you may have simply interpreted what she was trying to get across differently than she meant. And it's possible she made the point poorly! It happens!

Edited January 29, 2017 by stoopicus

[stoopicus]

My suggestion - take a step back for a moment and calm down. You're calling someone a liar here and (frankly) ranting a bit where you may have simply interpreted what she was trying to get across differently than she meant. And it's possible she made the point poorly! It happens!

 

And I am suggesting that because I generally think you've been pretty level-headed so far even though we disagree on this issue, basically out of respect for you, not to tell you to ****. Just to be clear.

[Ranstasia]

Facts exist. Are you claiming I incorrectly stated facts about sub-cap bolster behavior? Because there's quite a bit of empirical testing backing that up.

 

Other peoples' statements are open to interpretation. I was simply giving you my interpretation of what she had said.

 

My suggestion - take a step back for a moment and calm down. You're calling someone a liar here and (frankly) ranting a bit where you may have simply interpreted what she was trying to get across differently than she meant. And it's possible she made the point poorly! It happens!

 

Not at all. And if you read what I wrote as that, I was unclear and the fault is mine, mea culpa. Apologies if so. I did not intend to call anyone a liar.

 

To call someone a liar I would have to know the individual and the particular modus of that individual. Giving the wrong answer on a test is not lying, it's just that one did not do ones homework good enough.

 

Presenting emotions, beliefs or intuitive guesses as truth do not compute with me though. It helps none, remedies nothing and gives nothing to anyone.

 

For example this bolster "debate" is now so infected and motivated by peoples disappointment from the changes in 5.0 to a random model of improvement from a predicted one that the issue gets diluted. I think, and I underscore, I think that many are venting their disappointment with that and only that.

 

In any case I am satisfied. I've done the math's myself as when asking no response was given. I am in my opinion as knowledgeable as I wish to be for me to participate in pvp as I have ambition to.

 

For those that wish to believe that opinions are facts I give them gods speed. It might be so it might not be so. Only time will tell

[stoopicus]

Fair enough, and thanks for clarifying that.

[Ranstasia]

Fair enough, and thanks for clarifying that.

 

Cheers and again in no way was my intention to question, insult or in any way diminish you or anyone as a person. We might not agree but being civil in disagreement might make one loose the argument. Being uncivil WILL looose you the argument.

[Qwurdilu]

Because they didn't start posting till 2017.

 

Wow, thats some prejudice...

just so you know, i was #1 solo ranked season 4 with over a thousands matches played. Right now im among the top 3 played matches team ranked. When it comes down to pvp theres not many people that have a larger experience.

I sincerly hope that one day you and lhancelot overcome all that negativity find joiy in the game and transport that to forums. Right now its just a mess to discuss with both of you.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Qwurdilu

[Ranstasia]

Well, thats what is going to happen. When the system discourages people from pvping, the selfish ones that think it's fine are going to have no one to PVP against.

 

Sure, storymode people and PVE players might stick around but PVPers will not. And from what I am reading many hardcore raiders are pissed too, about a total lack of content for ops and raiding.

 

Basically the only people I can see that are satisfied are people who log in purely to follow the stories and play the game more like it's a first person game, not a MMO.

 

The system has, does and will discourage people. Not because of a difference in gear, not because some are "silly" enough to play story and do not understand how magnificently complicated and awesome pvp is.

 

In my opinion it is because some people insist that my way, my thinking, my wish, my perception is an must be correct always and everywhere. "no representative ever look at the pvp forums" yet we had a fast response not long ago regarding bolster changes. "Going premade is just a way to avoid having to que with those retarded story mode PvE scrubs that infest our WZs" then we get "I am oh so helpefull always and everywhere to the retarded, ignorant, mentally challenged story mode people that ask me for help. Ask One actual teacher how motivated a pupil get by being called names" "It's all bws fault, bolster, gear, my ISP, scrubs on my team, no one plays objectives, none kills only go and play objective"

 

In my humble opinion many of the masters of pvp are as useful as General Melchet in Black adder goes forth.

 

I play pvp as I play pve, to win and not to please. I don't pretend I want a fair fight I go with a team, I don't pretend I died because the aoe that pulverized me was green and not red, I don't pretend I died because someone else was a "scrub, kiddo, pveer, pvper or what not. I died because I died and I ask for advice, and give the same in return. A thing this forums is void of. The notion I get is that its always something else, the map, the class , the gear, the scrub, the que, the kiddo, the white knight, the straw man??, the Capricorn, the Aztec calendar etc etc.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ranstasia
adding

[DarthRaika]

I've been checking people I do yolo with and talking to them afterwards. Not even Min/max 240 was almost 5% more crit and hp and over 10% more bonus dmg than min/max 208 (with 240 weapons).

 

BTW, this is without the dvl gear exploit as I don't like the people that do that and did not even want to talk to them

 

This obviously makes yolo a joke (even more than normally lol)

Edited January 29, 2017 by DarthRaika

[Qwurdilu]

If you need an incentive to PVP other than the PVP itself, I can't relate to that.

They can't see past their own noses to judge the gearing grind objectively so trying to discuss it with them is a waste of time.

 

It's like trying to explain to a serial killer why killing is bad. When someone simply lacks the empathy or a conscience to put themselves in other peoples shoes you can never get your point across as to why it's bad.

 

 

How about you not only start to see past your own nose, but start to use your mind and use science? modern gaming psychology is all about incentives and microtransactions. All big succesfull pvp games give some sort of incentives, the most common ones are achievements and unlocks.

You can claim as much as you want to you are free from all those psychological effects, which itself is very questionable from a person who cant even see his own hypocrisis, but in the end its just a personal opinion.

The majority of humans is not free of those effects. Incentives are very important to gaming.

 

I've been checking people I do yolo with and talking to them afterwards. Not even Min/max 240 was almost 5% more crit and hp and over 10% more bonus dmg than min/max 208 (with 240 weapons).

 

BTW, this is without the dvl gear exploit as I don't like the people that do that and did not even want to talk to them

 

This obviously makes yolo a joke (even more than normally lol)

 

I hope you do realize that 10% more bonus dmg do not translate to 10% more dps?

Edited January 29, 2017 by Qwurdilu

[Klaus]

So with the same assumptions (50% win rate, 10 minute games) you're looking at 359 HOURS spent inside warzones. Sure you can get command crates that may reduce this time but that's the baseline.

u are my hero! Bioware u ****ed up again! We are still forced to play 1 char, over and over and over...no more pending between 4-5 chars.

[Ranstasia]

[quote=Lhancelot;9224359

 

It's like trying to explain to a serial killer why killing is bad. When someone simply lacks the empathy or a conscience to put themselves in other peoples shoes you can never get your point across as to why it's bad.

 

Yes it is. How point on and how relevant this comparison is. In no way would this actually be a pure example of what many would say is a straw man argument. I for my part would, in agreement with your post say fishing with a rod is kin to using Pershing missiles. Using a Abrahams tank to hunt game akin to a gun and putting an iceberg in a drink akin to a cube.