Combat: Key Presses vs. Procs

[RogueFive]

MMOs have changed over time and one of the major changes that I've seen is that all (or at least almost all) Western MMOs and many of the Eastern MMOs now try to limit the number of abilities a player must use actively to around 8-10 based on the player's build. Star Wars regularly goes over this with most of my characters needing to hit 11-13 buttons regularly (and many more than that with long cooldown abilities), and because I'm not an ambidextrous spider and I've never mastered shift-clicking like some of you old school wizards, I have to give up on being able to use highly situational skills like my interrupt and I'm only able to use movement-burst abilities early in a character's life when they don't yet have a ton of abilities or as something I mouse-click between fights. Additionally, for my bounty hunter and trooper, I have to put my (high heat/auto-attack) skill on a bar that I can easily click because I only need it in long fights, but I definitely need it then. Further, some of my long cooldown defensive or offensive skills **never** get used. I have them in my bar to use, but when I need them, I'm in the middle of a tough fight and moving my mouse over to use them will get me killed.

 

Suggestions:

 

1. Have long defensive cooldowns change to procs that fire when you reach certain health thresholds. For example, at 50% HP or below Energy Shield is used and raises your defense by 25% for 8 seconds (that is an example, I am not in-game so I probably have the power's name and description wrong). It would actually be useful this way and game designers could balance the game based on knowing that even players like me will be using the power.

 

2. Have periodic offensive buffs also auto-fire or give us the option to have them auto-fire and have them not effect the global cooldown. For example, I have super-charged gas ammunition for my bounty hunter that I can use, but it only provides a short buff that doesn't greatly increase my damage, so it doesn't fire often enough for me to have it on a key I can easily push and it isn't a good enough buff for me to waste a second finding it with a mouse-click, so I never use it. If I had it on auto-fire, it would be "wasted" a bit on small fights or at the end of fights, but at least it would be useful sometimes. Currently, it is just a skill that makes me feel bad that I am under-utilizing my character because I am not dexterous enough to hit so many keys.

 

3. Have the hold removal skill proc and go on cooldown when being CC'd by a full stun. Then make it so that all movement-burst skills remove slow CC, so that they are useful in battle but we only have to have one of these in our 10 easily-pushed combat keys.

 

4. Make the most basic "auto-attack" skill actually work like an auto-attack that is fired when you are at high heat or have no resources and make it interruptible by key presses and make it not trigger the global cooldown. This would make it so that troopers and storm-troopers and Jedi who are resource limited do not have to have the "auto-attack" key handy for long fights when resources are diminished.

 

I think if all of these things were done, the hotbars would be cleared up and it would make the game a lot more accessible. I've managed to get friends to play other modern MMOs with me, but while I've had some play this for a while; eventually they get overwhelmed, and I understand it because I do too. I'd love to be able to use my interrupt skill and I dislike that I am not playing my character as well as I am supposed to because I can't hit all the buttons.

Edited January 17, 2017 by RogueFive

[DarthFletcher]

You can do what you want to the DPS lot but when you start pissing around with my tank and when I can and can not proc my immunity that is when I draw the line with this game.

 

Tanks already lost sunder because PVP lot moaned I don't need more of my character being removed from me! There is a proc chance on relics go use them more.

[RogueFive]

You can do what you want to the DPS lot but when you start pissing around with my tank and when I can and can not proc my immunity that is when I draw the line with this game.

 

Tanks already lost sunder because PVP lot moaned I don't need more of my character being removed from me! There is a proc chance on relics go use them more.

 

That's a good example of a cooldown key press that should absolutely stay a key press ability, but there are many that it would work on and I think the other changes that would lower the number of key presses needed would absolutely help tanks who also have to deal with their taunt and group taunt abilities on top of trying to do dps and staying in position while being a target of a lot of damage and CC.

 

I think these changes should be made intelligently and after play-testing - not sweeping changes that hit **every** ability. Some of them might even be bad ideas, but I'd like to see some effort made to reduce the number of key presses required.

[LudhaninRolgge]

So you're basically asking the game to be made playable at high level for 3 years old child because you can't be bothered to learn to keybind properly ? Come on mate, the game is already easy enough. If it's that hard for you, just go buy an MMO mouse with button under your thumb, it'll change your life I promise.

And saying that super-charged gas is "a short buff that doesn't greatly increase my damage" is really not understanding how your class work. You really should learn how to play it correctly.

[SiegePro]

Fellow keyboard player here (my hands lack a lot of coordination and due to the W and S not lining up I just cannot steer with ASWD and have to use the arrow keys... so clicking powers with the mouse requires me to stop steering and is basically a last resort).

 

We don't need automated abilities, you just need to find a good keybind layout that works with the limitations of your hand movements and coordination.

 

I use 1-6, QWERTY, Backspace, \, Insert, Delete, End, Home, Page Up, Page Down and the Numeric keypad for my binds and group them into blocks based on type.

 

Powers that root go on the six-key block above my movement keys (since you can't move during those anyway). Unless absolutely needed, Insert is instead 'target closest enemy'.

 

Powers usable on the move go on 1-6 and QWERTY (though QWERTY is rarely needed).

 

Breakfree is always Num0 (right next to the movement keys).

 

Offensive and defensive cooldowns go on Numpad 1-6 (offensive usually 1-3, defensive 4-6) with the shortest recharge powers going first.

 

Backspace, \, Num7-9, Num+, Num/, Num* and Num- are rare situational abilities.

 

Finally 7-0, - and = are for purely out of combat abilities (out of combat heal, hour-long class buff, quick travel, companion dance, etc.). If I'm doing something where I know temp powers will be involved, I'll remap 7-0 for the temp ability bar.

 

That's enough space for 41 abilities all within easy reach and not requiring anything more than a little practice to use effectively.

Edited January 17, 2017 by SiegePro

[psandak]

RogueFive,

 

I am a physically handicapped person (Cerebral Palsy), and while I will never be the high APM DPSer, and I make mistakes when I key press (aka fat fingering), I do not see the problems you are seeing.

 

While I understand your dilemma, in my experience your issues require two things:

 

#1 DO NOT use key binds that someone else showed you. find what works for YOU. Just because the uberest of ubers say that "keybinding X Y Z to A B C is the 'best' configuration" and works for them does not mean it will work for you.

#2 How does one get to Carnegie Hall? Practice Practice Practice. It has taken me nearly two decades of playing WASD controlled games (MMO and otherwise) to get to where I am.

[Kawiki]

Buy a Naga mouse (with 12 side buttons) or equivalent and watch all your problems disappear.

 

No seriously do it. It will take a about a week to get used to but you won't ever look back.

 

Here is a reasonably priced one:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FNKMVUO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edited January 17, 2017 by Kawiki

[Hebruixe]

I wouldn't mind letting players choose the option to automate certain abilities, provided it is *optional*.

 

It would make the game a bit easier for newbies.

 

Skilled players could still micromanage all abilities and be rewarded by their superior decision-making.

 

Let's face it, there is a huge difference between the skill levels of new and old players, and consequently of what they perceive to be fun gameplay. The system should accommodate both types of players. The OP's suggestions could accomplish that -- provided that automation is OPTIONAL.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Hebruixe

[MichaaelPW]

Buy a Naga mouse (with 12 side buttons) or equivalent and watch all your problems disappear.

 

No seriously do it. It will take a about a week to get used to but you won't ever look back.

 

Here is a reasonably priced one:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FNKMVUO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I was just looking at this one. Are they that good? And you can bind your abilities to the numbers on the side of the mouse?

[gabigool]

Buy a Naga mouse (with 12 side buttons) or equivalent and watch all your problems disappear.

 

No seriously do it. It will take a about a week to get used to but you won't ever look back.

 

It will be extremely awkward at first. Alien even. Simply holding the mouse will feel weird since your thumb is now not applying real pressure to it. But as said, once you're comfortable with it (and a week sounds about right) it will be difficult to imagine not using one.

[Kawiki]

I was just looking at this one. Are they that good? And you can bind your abilities to the numbers on the side of the mouse?

 

Yeah you can bind the abilities to the side buttons. The side buttons typically refer to your number pad buttons but they can be changed to any key (or combos if you are so inclined). Are they that good? Simply yes. I find all games unplayable without one now.

[HelinCarnate]

Not sure about that one but on my Razer Naga I can map out those 12 buttons plus 2 others on top plus pushing in the scroll wheel or moving it right or left. So 17 keys on 1 hand. Shift or ctrl for up to 34.

[Kawiki]

Not sure about that one but on my Razer Naga I can map out those 12 buttons plus 2 others on top plus pushing in the scroll wheel or moving it right or left. So 17 keys on 1 hand. Shift or ctrl for up to 34.

 

Yeah you can map everything on that one, not sure about the left/right on the scroll but everything else certainly.

[Red_rocks]

logitech g600 is awesome too, there are so many buttons aside from the 12 side buttons you can assign just about everything to the mouse. even the mouse wheel has a left push right push and down push lol

[Psychopyro]

It will be extremely awkward at first. Alien even. Simply holding the mouse will feel weird since your thumb is now not applying real pressure to it. But as said, once you're comfortable with it (and a week sounds about right) it will be difficult to imagine not using one.

 

Meh, I have a g600... Couldn't get comfortable with it after a month. To be fair, I broke my hand really young, so finger and thumb don't open enough to keep from putting pressure on the side buttons....

 

I went back to just clicking skills and using the keyboard to turn. I have no problems with APM or being able to target... To each their own I guess.

[RogueFive]

Buying a special mouse or gaming keyboard isn't something everyone is going to be willing to do which limits the game's appeal to broad audiences and thus limits the amount of funds they can throw at it (or a sequel). These changes would make the game more accessible without **any** dumbing down as you'd still need to learn timing; currently, they likely balance around the idea that most users aren't using these abilities because most users likely aren't and their metrics show it, but if they changed it so that players only need to be able to hit 8-10 abilities actively in combat, they could balance things so that we are expected to hit the interrupt when needed, etc.

[Halinalle]

It will be extremely awkward at first. Alien even. Simply holding the mouse will feel weird since your thumb is now not applying real pressure to it. But as said, once you're comfortable with it (and a week sounds about right) it will be difficult to imagine not using one.

 

Claw technique isn't the only way to hold mouse.

[Airehn]

Suggestions:

 

1. Have long defensive cooldowns change to procs that fire when you reach certain health thresholds.

 

2. Have periodic offensive buffs also auto-fire or give us the option to have them auto-fire and have them not effect the global cooldown.

 

3. Have the hold removal skill proc and go on cooldown when being CC'd by a full stun.

 

4. Make the most basic "auto-attack" skill actually work like an auto-attack that is fired when you are at high heat or have no resources...

 

1. No, What if you wanted to use a Medpac at that time, and save the shield for a certain moment of a boss fight or wait until your healer was stunned. Shields should never auto proc. Relics can, but shields shouldn't. Too many variables with an internal CD, and what kind of damage would it absorb. Melee, Force, AoE, etc...

 

2. I have no problem with an auto attack, and I am actually surprised there isn't one currently in the game. I think the free basic attack that every class receives should just be an auto attack off the GCD that doesn't cast or interfere with other abilities, but just white damage, never crit and never cause procs. Might be hard to balance with an offhand.

 

3. No. There are moments in a Warzone where it is better to wait it out when you get stunned, and save the escape for a different time. If you're standing still at a base and someone sleeps you while they are cloaked, a lot of players would just break the sleep, but then what, you can't attack the cloaked player so you just wasted your CD.

Save it for a Force Choke or Whirlwind during combat.

 

4. See number 2.

 

I see nothing wrong with having a 5-6 button rotation, maybe 2 or 3 more spells for burst damage, and then 5 or 6 more for OH NO and situational moments, such as Medpac, shield, escape, dash, cleanse, cloak, reload, threat drop, interrupt, and stun just to name a few. Most of hose buttons would only be used once in each fight, and sometimes not at all. Of course not every class is going to have every ability just mentioned.

 

Having a 5 -6 button rotation would still allow you to apply a debuff such as sunder armor, ramp up, then unload, and should also give you a button to use as filler. The other 2 or 3 for bust damage such as a raid buff, and again, not every class would have those abilities either.

 

If you don't want to look into a peripheral keyboard or mouse designed for an MMO, then simply remap your keybinds. Maybe put your rotation on buttons 7 through = clicking with your mouse, and place the OH NO buttons on 1 through 6, and use your fingers, since you can't walk when stunned it won't matter if you remove your fingers from WASD for half a second.

[RogueFive]

I get that there are workarounds like using a gaming keyboard to write macros that will auto-fire some of these and I know some of you do that, but to me, that isn't very fun. I know that you could also use a gaming mouse to just have more key presses within easy reach too; however, I think that these solutions are gamer solutions and even as a fairly hardcore game, I'm reluctant to do them because it seems like a hassle, so I know that my friends who are less hardcore than me won't do them.