Please Buff Sorc/Sage DPS

[Tibi-Fit]

I totally support this

[Gramm]

Agreed /signed

[merovejec]

Spec heal instead!!

[Wimbleton]

It's all about the "enhanced" utilization of chain lightning. Figure that out and you'll be north of 5k no prob!

[Qwurdilu]

Id rather see dps defensives buffed than his dmg. Its way too easy to tunnel a dps sorc until hes dead. Edited February 28, 2017 by Qwurdilu

[Icykill_]

Id rather see dps defensives buffed than his dmg. Its way too easy to tunnel a dps sorc until hes dead.

 

What?

 

Are you kidding me. I'm nearly impossible to kill 1v1 and can often out wit 1v2. The last thing we need is more defence. What we need is more burst.

[Icykill_]

http://parsely.io/parser/stats

 

Those numbers don't represent the true state of things in pvp. Parsing on a dummy never tells the real picture, it's only relevant to pve operations.

[Udoroththefinal]

Those numbers don't represent the true state of things in pvp. Parsing on a dummy never tells the real picture, it's only relevant to pve operations.

 

Not even pve

 

Dummy parsing is just blowing a rotation on an unmoving, unreaction dummy

 

 

you dont have to worry about things like AoE, boss mechanics etc that force you to stop dpsing the boss

 

i scoff at the use of dummy parsing as justification of balance and class power potential

[mike_carton]

What?

 

Are you kidding me. I'm nearly impossible to kill 1v1 and can often out wit 1v2. The last thing we need is more defence. What we need is more burst.

 

I'd like to know your secret - utility selection and so on.

 

It's been very difficult to survive as a Telekinetics Sage; usually the first to die. Imp teams now focus on Sages first, even ahead of healers.

[Icykill_]

I'd like to know your secret - utility selection and so on.

 

It's been very difficult to survive as a Telekinetics Sage; usually the first to die. Imp teams now focus on Sages first, even ahead of healers.

 

 

Lots of people are stupid and go for what they consider the easiest kill. But it's not just about healing, it's about survivability. Sorcs are excellent survivalists and IMO should be the base for survivability when the Devs are trying to balance other classes. Ie Mercs, who now have way too much survivability. But If they had the same amount as Sorcs, there would be much less QQing about them

I laugh at teams who focus me first. It gives the rest of my team to focus one of them and I can usually keep them busy for a bit before I need to bubble. That's usually long enough for my team to kill.

 

Ask yourself, how often do you use your instant self heal (Unnatural Preservation for Sorc)? It's off CD every 30secs (25sec if you take Unnatural Vigor) and I spam it religiously even if I'm close to full health. With the right utilities this ability can save your butt. With the ones I pick it increases your defence for 15% for 6 and can increase its healing by 30%.

LoS (line of sight) is by far the most useful things sages have and it's not even an ability or utility. With out LoS objects around you, it can get hard. I suggest doing everything you can to disengage and find some LoS objects or try and position yourself so you have them to start with. Running around in the open on a Sorcs is just asking to be made into mince meat.

Sorcs have lots of ways to disengage back to some LoS. If the melee don't finish you before you get there, you will have the tactical advantage. You can stun, LoS, dark heal, bubble stun, cleanse, unnatural preservation, speed run.. etc.. the list goes on.

I hardly ever stop moving as a Sorc. They are one of the most mobile classes and you should fully use this to your advantage. Don't ever stop moving unless their whole team completely ignores you all match and you can face roll the keyboard free cast all match while watching TV.

 

My Utilities for my lightning Sorc.

 

Skillful

Sith Defiance - Increases damage reduction by 3%

Empty Body - Increases all healing received by 5%

 

Masterful

Corrupted Flesh - Reduces the damage taken from all periodic effects by 15%.

Conspiring Force - Targets affected by your Affliction are slowed by 30% for its duration.

 

Heroic

Emersion - Force Speed grants Emersion, removing all movement impairing effects and granting immunity to them for the duration

Backlash - Static Barriers you place on yourself erupt in a flash of light when they end, blinding up to 8 nearby enemies for 3 seconds. This effect breaks from direct damage

Or (if you are having trouble staying alive)

Dark Resilience - Reduces the damage taken by the target of your Extrication by 25% for 6 seconds. Additionally increases the healing done by Unnatural Preservation by 30%

 

Legendary

Unnatural Vigor - Unnatural Preservation increases your damage reduction by 15% for 6 seconds. Additionally, reduces the cooldown of Unnatural Preservation by 5 seconds.

Force Mobility - Thundering Blast, Innervate, and Force Leach may be activated while moving.

 

Edit :

IMO, when you're in an arena you should be targeting the glass canon classes first. Not the hardest to kill. Most of the glass canons will die fast even with healer support. When I see people target Mercs first all I do is laugh. Its the same when I see people target Sorc heals first.

People often forget they don't need to kill a healer to get a numbers advantage. Stuns, CC, slows and interrupts can be just as affective in shutting down a healer while you tunnel a DPS.

If people are targeting sages first it is because they are either dumb, there are too many commandos on the team or the sages aren't that good and the enemy knows they are weak targets.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Icykill_

[yellow_]

Are you kidding me. I'm nearly impossible to kill 1v1 and can often out wit 1v2. The last thing we need is more defence.

I am curious if you could take a dps sorc into ranked pvp for a while and see if you could still type those words in good conscience after you came out on the other side

Edited February 28, 2017 by yellow_

[Qwurdilu]

What?

 

Are you kidding me. I'm nearly impossible to kill 1v1 and can often out wit 1v2. The last thing we need is more defence. What we need is more burst.

 

So yesterday you got roflstomped so bad that you came up with a new thread explaining that 3 different people kept cheating against you, and today youre saying that youre "often 1vs2" with your sorc?

 

I dunno where you get the idea from that sorc is any good defensive wise, probably youre slaughtering lowbies or whatever, for sure it cant be any ranked game.

 

As for teamranked (do you even play that mode?) sorc dps died with the nerf of the 10% healing increased utility. It was that specific utility that was super strong when paired with guard (because it became a effectively 20%) and let sorc overcome his lack of defensives. Sorc dps either needs another dmg. mitigation skill, or his passive healing received needs to be buffed again.

 

In solo ranked they died with the healing bubble nerf and the fact that other classes got massively buffed.

 

As a sentinel main, i can assure you that skilled melees will have about the same uptime on a sorc than on a merc. Id even rate mercs kiting potential higher since hydraulics are more effective than force sprint. The only effective thing to create distance as a sorc is phasewalk which is a onetrick pony on 1min cd. For the remaining time a (skilled) melee will have about 95% uptime.

As a sentinel it feels like the 2.0 days when facing sorcs. They can run, they can hide, they can phasewalk and prolong the fight. But they can never win.

For me, theres only one class worse than sorc and that is juggs. Id even take a powertech over a sorc dps defensive wise any day for my ranked team.

 

If you really think sorcs defensives are even close to sentinel sniper or merc you have some serious perception problems or youre fighting people that bad, they cant break through your force barrier

Edited February 28, 2017 by Qwurdilu

[Icykill_]

I am curious if you could take a dps sorc into ranked pvp for a while and see if you could still type those words in good conscience after you came out on the other side

 

I've done so. Which is what I'm commenting on from a purely survivability stand point, not damage. As for DPS they are woefully under power compared to the rest of the games burst spec. If they had better burst they wouldn't be considered an easy target by most. The great survivability doesn't help if you can't pressure your attackers with the same corresponding dps they are piling on you. They can just chase you around knowing you aren't much of a threat to them. To play a Burst Sorc/sage in Ranked means you better be ready to be the rabbit and diversion so your team can take out your first focused target. Going into Ranked thinking you are going to be given free reign to free cast and do big numbers is the wrong mind set. At the get go you better be prepared to spend as much of the match as possible tying up the opposition by making them try and kill you. Obviously if you have 3-4 all focus you will eventually die. It doesn't really matter what class your on if you get focused like that. The tactic is to draw it out so your guys can do their thing or the enemy gives up chasing you because it's a waste of time.

Sorcs as a dps aren't a major threat to most people in Ranked. IMO they should be nearly the last to focus because you can just cc, stun and close them down till you've taken out the other threats.

I will add that Sorcs are a utility spec and bring some interesting options to a team if they know when and how to use those skills. It all comes down to the player, if you play the class in an orthodox way you will likely get countered because everyone will anticipate your next move. If you find some unorthodox tactics you can be a right pain in the backside to the enemy and add value to your team. Also some maps favour them more than others. The more LoS objects, the better chance you have. As much as I hate Rishi, it is actually quite a good map for Sorcs. It's just a shame it's still buggy.

Of course if there are 4 Mercs you may as well pull your pants down and apply lube.

At the end of the day I wouldn't take a burst Sorc into ranked If I was serious about Ranked and dpsing. The balance is just so out of whack. But Ranked is more of a butt ended joke than it's ever been in the history of this this game. Taking ranked seriously is like taking the World Series of badminton seriously.

The most fun to be had in pvp today is running objective Pvp and a burst spec Sorc is more than viable there.

[Icykill_]

So yesterday you got roflstomped so bad that you came up with a new thread explaining that 3 different people kept cheating against you, and today youre saying that youre "often 1vs2" with your sorc?

 

I dunno where you get the idea from that sorc is any good defensive wise, probably youre slaughtering lowbies or whatever, for sure it cant be any ranked game.

 

As for teamranked (do you even play that mode?) sorc dps died with the nerf of the 10% healing increased utility. It was that specific utility that was super strong when paired with guard (because it became a effectively 20%) and let sorc overcome his lack of defensives. Sorc dps either needs another dmg. mitigation skill, or his passive healing received needs to be buffed again.

 

In solo ranked they died with the healing bubble nerf and the fact that other classes got massively buffed.

 

As a sentinel main, i can assure you that skilled melees will have about the same uptime on a sorc than on a merc. Id even rate mercs kiting potential higher since hydraulics are more effective than force sprint. The only effective thing to create distance as a sorc is phasewalk which is a onetrick pony on 1min cd. For the remaining time a (skilled) melee will have about 95% uptime.

As a sentinel it feels like the 2.0 days when facing sorcs. They can run, they can hide, they can phasewalk and prolong the fight. But they can never win.

For me, theres only one class worse than sorc and that is juggs. Id even take a powertech over a sorc dps defensive wise any day for my ranked team.

 

If you really think sorcs defensives are even close to sentinel sniper or merc you have some serious perception problems or youre fighting people that bad, they cant break through your force barrier

 

LoL, good try, not biting, I don't need to make up cheaters in this game because there are plenty. Comeback when you have something more intelligent to base you argument on.

 

Edit : by the way the rest of your post was good, but you lost me with the insult. Next time try not being so confrontational and we can have a real discussion. Attacking someone based on something you personally didn't experience is pretty childish. If you'd just lead with the rest of your post I would have agreed with some of it.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Icykill_

[Ottoattack]

So yesterday you got roflstomped so bad that you came up with a new thread explaining that 3 different people kept cheating against you, and today youre saying that youre "often 1vs2" with your sorc?

 

I dunno where you get the idea from that sorc is any good defensive wise, probably youre slaughtering lowbies or whatever, for sure it cant be any ranked game.

 

As for teamranked (do you even play that mode?) sorc dps died with the nerf of the 10% healing increased utility. It was that specific utility that was super strong when paired with guard (because it became a effectively 20%) and let sorc overcome his lack of defensives. Sorc dps either needs another dmg. mitigation skill, or his passive healing received needs to be buffed again.

 

In solo ranked they died with the healing bubble nerf and the fact that other classes got massively buffed.

 

As a sentinel main, i can assure you that skilled melees will have about the same uptime on a sorc than on a merc. Id even rate mercs kiting potential higher since hydraulics are more effective than force sprint. The only effective thing to create distance as a sorc is phasewalk which is a onetrick pony on 1min cd. For the remaining time a (skilled) melee will have about 95% uptime.

As a sentinel it feels like the 2.0 days when facing sorcs. They can run, they can hide, they can phasewalk and prolong the fight. But they can never win.

For me, theres only one class worse than sorc and that is juggs. Id even take a powertech over a sorc dps defensive wise any day for my ranked team.

 

If you really think sorcs defensives are even close to sentinel sniper or merc you have some serious perception problems or youre fighting people that bad, they cant break through your force barrier

 

No question that sorc survivability is not up to par with mara, snipers and mercs, but should we buff sorc survivability or nerf mara, snipers and mercs survivability? This DCD arms race needs to stop. If we keep going this path, no one will ever die in a WZ.

 

Even if 5.2 nerfs mara, snipers and mercs survivability, sorc dps will still be useless cuz they substantially lack damage. Buffing dps sorc damage will give them a better shot at being competitive, especially in an organized format. survivability will help, but it wont be enough.

 

On another note, for PvE, sorc dps is pathetic in all respects.

[Qwurdilu]

No question that sorc survivability is not up to par with mara, snipers and mercs, but should we buff sorc survivability or nerf mara, snipers and mercs survivability? This DCD arms race needs to stop. If we keep going this path, no one will ever die in a WZ.

 

Even if 5.2 nerfs mara, snipers and mercs survivability, sorc dps will still be useless cuz they substantially lack damage. Buffing dps sorc damage will give them a better shot at being competitive, especially in an organized format. survivability will help, but it wont be enough.

 

On another note, for PvE, sorc dps is pathetic in all respects.

 

I never said we should buff other classes to merc/sniper/sentinel level, however the vast difference is in defensives and teamutility, not dps output. If a sorc dps could stand still like a merc/sniper and could freecast like those, they could dish out impressive numbers aswell. You can easily go beyond 7k dps on a sorc if they let you freecast.

And if merc had sorc defensives, he had to run and kite like hell too and wouldnt be able to deal any significant damage either. So dmg output is tied very closely to defensives. Thats one reason why snipers wreak havoc in teamranked, their defensives (cc-, pushback-, interruptimmunity) basically allows him to freecast the whole match.

 

So no, sorcs output is very fine for pvp, its the lack of uptime you have in pvp because 95% of the time you cant deal damage because youre busy trying not to die.

 

while i agree that sorc could use some single target dps buff for pve, sorc is definately not pathetic. Hes fully nim viable

[Groncho]

all sorcs should be deleted, they are, and will be, the cancer of this game

[Ottoattack]

I never said we should buff other classes to merc/sniper/sentinel level, however the vast difference is in defensives and teamutility, not dps output. If a sorc dps could stand still like a merc/sniper and could freecast like those, they could dish out impressive numbers aswell. You can easily go beyond 7k dps on a sorc if they let you freecast.

And if merc had sorc defensives, he had to run and kite like hell too and wouldnt be able to deal any significant damage either. So dmg output is tied very closely to defensives. Thats one reason why snipers wreak havoc in teamranked, their defensives (cc-, pushback-, interruptimmunity) basically allows him to freecast the whole match.

 

So no, sorcs output is very fine for pvp, its the lack of uptime you have in pvp because 95% of the time you cant deal damage because youre busy trying not to die.

 

while i agree that sorc could use some single target dps buff for pve, sorc is definately not pathetic. Hes fully nim viable

 

As you described, sniper has the edge as ranged dps and why. It is not the damage potential, it is the ability to perform under pressure is what matters. Sorc is the weakest there. And for the record, mercs as well not doing as great as advertised. Not as bad as sorc, but clearly not as strong as sniper for the same reasons.

 

There is no reason to get derailed too much in PvE, theory crafters and parse analyzers put sorc dps between 10-15% behind. Is it NiM viable? I dunno and I dont care, but it is clearly behind. And this concept of "free casting" applies to everybody. I primarily play combat sentinel. I will do more dps if I am fighting a non moving target that does not CC, kite or an ally of the target taunts me. Surely more than sorc by at least 10%. This is an issue in all game modes.

 

Not only sorc is lagging behind in being capable to fight under pressure. Even free casting they are behind. Do they need a buff in survivability? Maybe, but they surely need a buff in dps.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Ottoattack

[Qwurdilu]

As you described, sniper has the edge as ranged dps and why. It is not the damage potential, it is the ability to perform under pressure is what matters. Sorc is the weakest there. And for the record, mercs as well not doing as great as advertised. Not as bad as sorc, but clearly not as strong as sniper for the same reasons.

 

i completely agree here 100%

 

Even free casting they are behind.

 

i disagree here, a lot. Youre going to struggle to win a dmg. race on combat sentinal with a freecasting sage. Highest i ever got on combat sentinel was these two and im pretty proud of these numbers because its very difficult to achieve those on combat sent.

On sage however, i topped those numbers by far. So i really dont get why people think sage wouldnt be able to dish out annihilating numbers in pvp when freecasting.

 

But still, as you pointed out, under pressure sage output is garbage. For pvp i dont think output should be touched, instead he should get some tools that sniper has, that helps him to perform under pressure.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Qwurdilu

[Janglor]

If you wont tell people who your in game toons are, your opinions are literally worthless. MadCuzBad.

[Wimbleton]

Icykill_, who are you in game?

[Icykill_]

Icykill_, who are you in game?

 

I've got 35 alts, you need to be more specific, lol... but jokes aside, I don't advertise it to the forums or people I don't know.. I've had bad experiences with trolls in the past and had to rename a lot of my toons.

[Icykill_]

HI

I am NOT a lesbian gamer

also sorcs are bads

 

I won't hold that against you

[Gramm]

In my opinion lighting needs a slight buff in dmg and going under pressure. Needs more dmg reduction than heals so it give madness that special snowflake feel. Also something like using cloud mind makes your next cast uninterruptible would be nice too. ( Complements the dmg reduction utility with cloud mind )

 

Madness needs more survivable so heals from dots and force leech needs to be buffed. Force lighting needs some love too. Also buffing Wrath wouldn't hurt. Dot spread is not to bad. Just single target for madness.

 

 

 

A lot of people believe sorcs need a buff either in damage or other areas and for good reasons 5.0 shafted us, but that's all they do say "Sorcs needs a buff" instead of just saying how about making suggestions. I also agree that healing and DCD's arms race is getting out of hand just fyi.

[BraverDre]

Spec heal instead!!

 

We are talking about dps here. Spec heal is not an option for ppl who hate being a healer. Dps specs need to be buffed and its clear af.