Please Buff Sorc/Sage DPS

[mmmbuddah]

Not saying plasmatech isn't weak but this is a sorc thread make one for plasmatech.

 

They are trying to say sorcs need to be buffed, and I am saying that plasmatech and pyro need to be addressed LONG before sorcs need to be addressed. Sorry if swimming against the current makes you mad?

[Gramm]

They are trying to say sorcs need to be buffed, and I am saying that plasmatech and pyro need to be addressed LONG before sorcs need to be addressed. Sorry if swimming against the current makes you mad?

 

Not saying plasmatech isn't weak but this is a sorc thread make one for plasmatech.

[mmmbuddah]

Not saying plasmatech isn't weak but this is a sorc thread make one for plasmatech.

 

It was made several times, and people ignore it. So I will post where ever I please. If a dev sees this and they see that no one says anything about otherclasses and specs, then it would be beyond infuriating if sorcs got buffed and VGs didnt.

[Vember]

They are trying to say sorcs need to be buffed, and I am saying that plasmatech and pyro need to be addressed LONG before sorcs need to be addressed. Sorry if swimming against the current makes you mad?

 

Agreed. PT/VG are in a much worse spot than sorcs atm.

[Qwurdilu]

It was made several times, and people ignore it. So I will post where ever I please. If a dev sees this and they see that no one says anything about otherclasses and specs, then it would be beyond infuriating if sorcs got buffed and VGs didnt.

 

id take a powertech dps over a sorc dps anyday for my ranked team. Powertech isnt really bad, its just pyro that falls behind. Tankspecc is toptier, and AP is viable aswell.

[ottffsse]

id take a powertech dps over a sorc dps anyday for my ranked team. Powertech isnt really bad, its just pyro that falls behind. Tankspecc is toptier, and AP is viable aswell.

 

Advanced Prototype is in a descent spot. Not pyrotech of course. But at least Vanguards /PTs have 1 dps discipline which is ok. Both Sorc dps disciplines are at the bottom right now.

[Flusssaeure]

Im sorry, before they touch sorcs, they need to do something about plasmatech / pyro. They are under HALF of the damage of other classes / specs.

 

You realise that the link is broken down in four categorise with different health settings for the dummy and only in one category Plasmatech / Pyrotech is trailing that much? If you look closer you see that for every bracket and every Discipline the indicate the number of parses that was made for this category and Discipline. If you look at the number at the 500.000 Health dummy you see that only one Plasmatech /Pyrotech parse was used to measure this number while other disciplines or other Health settings have tripple digit numbers of parses contibuting to the final numbers. Especially after the 1.500.000 Health dummy and the 2.500.000 Health dummy, where most parses where made, show different results it seems more that the single Plamatech that made the 500.000 Parse didn't know his rotation. Of course you could alwys argue that some screw the numbers but the influence of one bad parse is of course much greater if it is the only parse compared to be one parse out of a three digit number of parses.

 

At both of the most used Health settings both Sorcerer / Sage DPS disciplines and Plasmatech / Pyrotech are the Flop 3. That definitly is something to consider. So while I would agree that Plasmatech / Pyrotech is also in bad shape that Powertech / Vanguard DPS disciplines overall need more attention than Sorcerer / Sage DPS I wouldn't agree after all Sorcerer / Sage DPS disciplines are in bad shape compared to only one Powertech / Vanguard DPS discipline.

[mmmbuddah]

You realise that the link is broken down in four categorise with different health settings for the dummy and only in one category Plasmatech / Pyrotech is trailing that much? If you look closer you see that for every bracket and every Discipline the indicate the number of parses that was made for this category and Discipline. If you look at the number at the 500.000 Health dummy you see that only one Plasmatech /Pyrotech parse was used to measure this number while other disciplines or other Health settings have tripple digit numbers of parses contibuting to the final numbers. Especially after the 1.500.000 Health dummy and the 2.500.000 Health dummy, where most parses where made, show different results it seems more that the single Plamatech that made the 500.000 Parse didn't know his rotation. Of course you could alwys argue that some screw the numbers but the influence of one bad parse is of course much greater if it is the only parse compared to be one parse out of a three digit number of parses.

 

At both of the most used Health settings both Sorcerer / Sage DPS disciplines and Plasmatech / Pyrotech are the Flop 3. That definitly is something to consider. So while I would agree that Plasmatech / Pyrotech is also in bad shape that Powertech / Vanguard DPS disciplines overall need more attention than Sorcerer / Sage DPS I wouldn't agree after all Sorcerer / Sage DPS disciplines are in bad shape compared to only one Powertech / Vanguard DPS discipline.

 

The thing is though, sorcerers have survivability. PTs have none atm. So while sorcs dps might be slightly lower than the rest, they can at least survive. VGs cannot. And plasmatech is especially bad off because we lost our 7 missiles, and for some reason at some point they went to Tactics. BW seems to not realize that dot specs need to survive longer than burst specs.....

[verfallen]

soo took my sorc out for a spin today.

 

 

Been murdering them left and right with marauder, sniper, merc and sin, but I have to say I did better than I tought I would.

 

Granted, sorc has been my main from 1.0 to 3.0, very active in 4.0 but for raid group needs I had switched to marauder, and however, it was still my pvp main.

 

I'll be talking from a Lightning PoV, since its the spec I use, haven't done madness in pvp since I dislike the playstyle for WZ, even when it was the OPdness.

 

In an arena, my dps was very low because I had to keep running around to avoid 2 sin, but I did keep better pressure than I tought on the team, and lost them dps trying to focus me down. It allowed the other dps to free cast longer.

 

Its actually very good at kiting melee, especially if you choose the right utilities, and it wouldnt take much for it to be pretty good as the kiting rdps.

 

That said, there is one thing that is kinda annoying, is the spacing of the utilities

 

Utilities that are currently a must:

-Surging Speed

-Emersion

-Force Mobility

-Backlash

 

So it means you have very little choice in the last 2 tier. You could consider dumping backlash for something else (Corrupted Barrier imo isnt worth it since the massive nerf. it might be worth it if they brought back the static barrier at 2%, but as it is, its useless imo, and 4% of enduring bastion won't save you nor buy you much time). Instant-WW can be dead useful, thats what I'd go for.

 

But really what is going to keep you alive is range and self-healing.

 

I'm going to go with the idea that MORE defensives to face tank like a merc isnt the way to go, expect those will go anyway.

 

 

Now about lightning:

 

Currently its a spec that can put an impressive ammount of damage on a target under polarity shift, and keep moving around fast as it do it with little to no dps loss. Another ranged wont be able to kite a lightning sorc, and its a challenge even for good assassin to stay on target of one that plays their card right. (deception can low slash your get away, however). I've topped the 8vs8 dps board a few times (altough keep in mind I'm a type of player that plays objectives a bit more than the average dps. I like winning more than I like being the top dps). The built in AoE with Chain Lightning helped a bit in some fight where people got in a cluster.

 

I haven't seen a merc or mando that really was good at its class, however I did see some slingers that weren't bad. What I've said in a previous post held true.

 

There was no way for me to engage straight. The disparity between the survival tool of the slinger and the sorc are too great. While in no way I am suggesting that sorc should be able to facetank a slinger, the kiting, LoSing and self-healing was time consuming, and delayed enough so help could come (was guarding east on novare coast) but I had 0 chance of dealing with the situation myself.

 

First, the healing for dps spec needs to be streamlined. While hiding behind a wall and frantically casting Dark Heal can work to some point, even to the force-friendly lightning it gets VERY taxing to do it more than once force wise. Merc and operative can heal themselves to a similar rate without getting into too much trouble.

 

It could be simply something like the healing tree Dark Concentration (makes Dark Heal cost no force and be instant) but that also boost the healing it does, or lowering the cooldown of Unnatural preservation to 18 seconds baseline for the dps specs.

 

So while it does need some loving, it would be kinda easy to go overboard and create "the new merc" here, its not as bad as I tought.

 

And its still great fun, when its not an arena that is. Its challenging, but even if it was 100% sure a good slinger was going to end me my butt sooner or later, I was able to make it MUCH later than I tought I would be able to, and with some team mates, you dont need a lot of peeling to get left alone from the sheer fact you are hard to pin down, and be extremely annoying at applying your burst.

 

So its survivable, done right, but the surviving while under pressure can use some loving, as other class will keep the pressure on you, even when you try to turn the table on them.

Edited March 4, 2017 by verfallen

[Qwurdilu]

Its actually very good at kiting melee, especially if you choose the right utilities, and it wouldnt take much for it to be pretty good as the kiting rdps.

 

I doubt thats assuming equal skillevel. Given your experience on the class you can undoubtfull prevail against average joes, however in ranked environment with properly skilled melees you stand no chance. I know because i am a sentinel main, and theres nothing a sorc can do to escape. Theres phasewalk and barrier that buys some time, but it cant win you the fight since youre unable to do damage through this.

 

I agree with you that lighnting can be fun these days, but that is due the current meta. You barely see any melees, and skilled melees are even more rare. So in regular warzones run&hide works very, very good. Breaking LOS and heal to full works 99% of the time nowadays because 99% of the opposing team is range themself, so no one bothers to track you down.

However this doesnt include it works against decent teams that actually try to track you down. Once you have a mark above your head and enemy team has some players with movement youre running into serious problems. You will still be able to survive some decent time, but your output will massivly decrease. Thats the major problem of dps sorc, under pressure you cant do anything. Thats why hes not viable for ranked at moment, whenever you get tunneled, you cant do dmg.

Also the current range meta is good for lightning because there are not many interrupts flying around and youre the most vulnerable class to those.

 

Theres a easy QOL fix that would help lightning a ton.

The lvl 64 talent "lighnting bolt increases your dmg. reduction by 3% stacks up to 3 times lasts 10 seconds".

Make it nonstackable but 9% and increase the duration to 30 seconds.

Right now its actually shizphrenic, if you have that buff youre tanky enough to prevail, however once focused down you often lose all stacks because all that kiting and beeing ccd makes it fall off. And whenever that buff is gone, youre into deep troubles. So while freecasting you have the dmg reduction needed, but whenever youre under attack you lose your defensive. Its been always obvious to me that the guy designing this was a pve guy, because that utlities works there with no issues at all. However, in pvp that buff falls off way to often plus you dont get stacks fast enough in a ranked situation.

 

Dear developers: plus points if you add 9% melee and range defense to that utility, it would also help a lot.

 

Oh what am i talking here, as if they were reading this lol

[verfallen]

Yes you pretty much reach the point I made on the post. I can kite, but my dps suffer under pressure, and the "self-heal" obviously means I cut myself from all dps.

 

For comparison, the anti-focus of the sorc pretty much CCs you, has 1 extra minute of cooldown compared to merc.

 

For healers, its balanced. It effectively save you, and give you some immunity AFTER it with enduring bastion where you can top yourself off.

 

Not so much with lightning.

 

Thats if an electronet didnt prevent you from using it.

 

I'd like to see how the average merc would react if upon activating polarity shift, a sorc would deactivate their rocket out, responsive safeguard and energy shield for 9 seconds. This is currently what electronet does. It removes their kiting, AND their oh-**** button, unless they use their precious cc breaker on it.

 

 

There are a lot of ways to approach the situation, but the class does need way to either mitigate damage more efficiently, to heal themselves without losing that much dps. Or a slight dps lost might be acceptable if the class had plenty to spare, which it currently does not. I've seen my TBs hit most target in the 10-15k range, with near full 240 (left side is still not really great, but the rest is in full 240, and implants are 240 mk-4.

 

Some feature of the sniper and merc should also be toned down in 5.2 I expect, which would help bring more balance between the ranged dps specs (where as stated, you have 0 hope of coming out on top against a sniper that has the same 35m range as you have as lightning (and 30m as madness, you are done for), and with the current self-healing the spec has while keeping pressure you need some hard kiting and LoSing against it, and it might not be enough. The impressive mobility and anti-kiting they have also make it very hard to keep doing it for long.

 

Surprisingly enough, the mercs are easier to deal with than a sniper, unless the sniper is REALLY poorly played, at least, again, as lightning with the small extra range, it IS effectively possible to kite a merc to its death, especially if out of cooldowns.

[mike_carton]

...

Ask yourself, how often do you use your instant self heal (Unnatural Preservation for Sorc)? It's off CD every 30secs (25sec if you take Unnatural Vigor) and I spam it religiously even if I'm close to full health. With the right utilities this ability can save your butt. With the ones I pick it increases your defence for 15% for 6 and can increase its healing by 30%.

..

 

Thanks for the detailed response. Just read it in full, hence the delay in acknowledging it.

[BraverDre]

Sorc dps needs buff. Clear af.

[Earlchaos]

wat

 

http://imgur.com/LIQOyhk

 

Absolutely, one BG (maybe with lots of Zerg, some healers, our sorc in the middle) proves, that you're right, nerf Sorcs, they're imba.

 

On the other hand there's something like that: http://ixparse.com/rating/?boss=27&mode=HM&size=8M&type=DPS&class=&order=rating&dir=d

 

Which shows that sorc in PvE is the fifth wheel nobody wants because he sucks so hard but that's only stats of tens of thousands of raids. I'm almost sure you're right. Or trolling.

 

Cheers

[BraverDre]

Buff sorcs dps. Dps is way too low for NiM content

[Terrimando]

At least for PvE, bump it by 15% just to be on par with others.

 

PvP - meh, needs more defensive cooldowns or more self-healing, its' very squishy and not viable.

[ottffsse]

Absolutely, one BG (maybe with lots of Zerg, some healers, our sorc in the middle) proves, that you're right, nerf Sorcs, they're imba.

 

On the other hand there's something like that: http://ixparse.com/rating/?boss=27&mode=HM&size=8M&type=DPS&class=&order=rating&dir=d

 

Which shows that sorc in PvE is the fifth wheel nobody wants because he sucks so hard but that's only stats of tens of thousands of raids. I'm almost sure you're right. Or trolling.

 

Cheers

 

 

That's a damning example there considering Malaphar is an "add" heavy fight where sorcs should at least pull their weight.

 

I think (I do not have the log anymore) but I pulled over 9 or even 9.5K on that fight with my Balance Sage when I did it hm in 5.0 but still the Ruffian and the Watchman in the group were pulling 10K.

 

But the next boss (sword squadron) forget it...won't get more than 6.5K with a sorc.

Edited March 7, 2017 by ottffsse

[ottffsse]

Meh after looking at parses and doing some myself here are my suggested buffs (unless you want to just scale up damage on abilities effective but does not change fundumentals what makes these classes unique and interesting)

 

just some ideas

For both classes:

-increase crit chance under polarity shift anywhere from 10-20% helps with burst in both cases

 

For Lighting:

 

-Chain Lightning should also reapply Affliction in Aoe if one target is affected by it -helps it's lackluster aoe somewhat

 

-Chance procs of double strikes on certain abilities (flash and bolt) should be increased - again potential for scarier burst

 

For Madness:

 

-Throw/ lightning damage should be increased 15% - like you can't move when channeling this so please make it worthwhile while getting hammered with tracer missiles etc?

 

-Demolish should spread with Death field (read it did not now not sure but it should)

 

-If target under Aflliction Force Leech should auto crit in addition to the damage buff currently - lightning already has this with TBlast why not madness, I mean any good player in PvP knows to interrupt Force Leech anyways

 

-Refund/ build more force under throw/lightning channel - madness resource management is atrocious right now

 

-in general dots tic for too low damage they should be buffed (maybe only increase dot damage if several different dots are stacked on target ie affliction, weaken mind, demolish so it does not get out of hand and you still have to "build up" dps on target(s) - if you are a dot spec your sustain has to be actually threatening in arenas to put pressure on tank/heal block)

 

yeah

[BraverDre]

Meh after looking at parses and doing some myself here are my suggested buffs (unless you want to just scale up damage on abilities effective but does not change fundumentals what makes these classes unique and interesting)

 

just some ideas

For both classes:

-increase crit chance under polarity shift anywhere from 10-20% helps with burst in both cases

 

For Lighting:

 

-Chain Lightning should also reapply Affliction in Aoe if one target is affected by it -helps it's lackluster aoe somewhat

 

-Chance procs of double strikes on certain abilities (flash and bolt) should be increased - again potential for scarier burst

 

For Madness:

 

-Throw/ lightning damage should be increased 15% - like you can't move when channeling this so please make it worthwhile while getting hammered with tracer missiles etc?

 

-Demolish should spread with Death field (read it did not now not sure but it should)

 

-If target under Aflliction Force Leech should auto crit in addition to the damage buff currently - lightning already has this with TBlast why not madness, I mean any good player in PvP knows to interrupt Force Leech anyways

 

-Refund/ build more force under throw/lightning channel - madness resource management is atrocious right now

 

-in general dots tic for too low damage they should be buffed (maybe only increase dot damage if several different dots are stacked on target ie affliction, weaken mind, demolish so it does not get out of hand and you still have to "build up" dps on target(s) - if you are a dot spec your sustain has to be actually threatening in arenas to put pressure on tank/heal block)

 

yeah

 

100% agreed

[trabble]

Meh after looking at parses and doing some myself here are my suggested buffs (unless you want to just scale up damage on abilities effective but does not change fundumentals what makes these classes unique and interesting)

 

just some ideas

For both classes:

-increase crit chance under polarity shift anywhere from 10-20% helps with burst in both cases

 

For Lighting:

 

-Chain Lightning should also reapply Affliction in Aoe if one target is affected by it -helps it's lackluster aoe somewhat

 

-Chance procs of double strikes on certain abilities (flash and bolt) should be increased - again potential for scarier burst

 

For Madness:

 

-Throw/ lightning damage should be increased 15% - like you can't move when channeling this so please make it worthwhile while getting hammered with tracer missiles etc?

 

-Demolish should spread with Death field (read it did not now not sure but it should)

 

-If target under Aflliction Force Leech should auto crit in addition to the damage buff currently - lightning already has this with TBlast why not madness, I mean any good player in PvP knows to interrupt Force Leech anyways

 

-Refund/ build more force under throw/lightning channel - madness resource management is atrocious right now

 

-in general dots tic for too low damage they should be buffed (maybe only increase dot damage if several different dots are stacked on target ie affliction, weaken mind, demolish so it does not get out of hand and you still have to "build up" dps on target(s) - if you are a dot spec your sustain has to be actually threatening in arenas to put pressure on tank/heal block)

 

yeah

 

very good ideas. i hope the devs will look into it for 5.2

[BraverDre]

Devs need to buff sorc dps specs in 5.2 because its dpa is too low for ranked pvp. People who says *oo sorc have good survivability* just don't play pvp ranked as a dps Edited March 14, 2017 by BraverDre

[BraverDre]

We need sorc dps buff in 5.2

[adayamothrawn]

Dunno how many threads have called for a buff by now, but steady wins the race.

 

I am a lightning sorc with BiS on the left side and 240/242 gear/full set bonus. It annoys the hell out of me when I see folks doing 20-30k against me in a wz at times when the maximum amount I've seen for me is 14k normally and 20k once on a completely undergeared enemy. It can't be that we can only dole out half the damage, not when you're T3.

 

So, yes, devs: Please buff sorcs in 5.2. This ain't fun.

[BraverDre]

Agreed. I feel the same. I have full 242 and I can do 4 mills damage when i play regular warzone against new players bt spreading my useless dots but when i play solo ranked, all i can is kite hard and hope for the best. When I want to play group ranked, nobody want a sorc dps in their team. Pve is even worse. 8.6k dps on lightning with a bug and like 7.5k madness when other classes do 10k without even trying hard. 1 vs 1 sorc sxxx buuble just delayes ur death, defensive moves got nerfed dps got nerfed. If they dont buff it in 5.2 i quit cuz the game is no fun anymore for a sorc player Edited March 19, 2017 by BraverDre

[BraverDre]

It needs to be buffed its a fact. I am planning to unsub just because 5.0 nerf ruined the class for ranked pvp and NiM pve. 5.2 - LAST HOPE Edited March 19, 2017 by BraverDre