Why all the hate?

[Narrowsws]

I get it people are frustrated. I myself left some time before anarchy storyline. Around that time they provided a generous boost to companions health. However not was all well in the Kingdom, a group of anti fun people set out to destroy the nerf, by complaining day and night here. The Dev's caved. I lost interest shortly after.

 

I warned people the nerf on companions ..would cause people to lost interest. However the chapters are great. I enjoy the solo play. I like being able to dive into each chapter without the need for an elite group each time. I can progress naturally through the story on my own.

 

I'd noticed though. People almost daily seem to be discouraged. I understand RNG sucks or more PVP content. Take it from someone who left before majority of chapters were installed. The game itself has improved. It may not be perfect. It's much better then it was at launch.

[Xo-Lara]

Everyone plays the game for different reasons and has a different experience. It might be good for your game play goals in the game but it's not for the people that are unhappy now. Ask all the disgruntled people what the problem is and you get a variety of answers. Each person plays the game to get something a little different out of it.

 

The companions are fine for me, but the game feels like it being made for only one playstyle, one I don't have fun with. I play for the fluff stuff and that is getting gated and cut out hard. No amount of ops or pvp will fix this for me, but I'm just as unhappy with the state of things as the people who hate GC or the lack of new ops.

 

MMOs should be a place where people who play differently can inhabit the same game. SWTOR, on the other hand, feels more and more like there is only Bioware Approved play. Don't you dare try to have fun any other way. This is why I will probably be gone after the next maintenance. I will probably lose forum access. Buying a sub for a game I'm not interested in anymore makes no sense.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Xo-Lara

[RahaylaCora]

Everyone plays the game for different reasons and has a different experience. It might be good for your game play goals in the game but it's not for the people that are unhappy now. Ask all the disgruntled people what the problem is and you get a variety of answers. Each person plays the game to get something a little different out of it.

 

The companions are fine for me, but the game feels like it being made for only one playstyle, one I don't have fun with. I play for the fluff stuff and that is getting gated and cut out hard. No amount of ops or pvp will fix this for me, but I'm just as unhappy with the state of things as the people who hate GC or the lack of new ops.

 

MMOs should be a place where people who play differently can inhabit the same game. SWTOR, on the other hand, feels more and more like there is only Bioware Approved play. Don't you dare try to have fun any other way. This is why I will probably be gone after the next maintenance. I will probably lose forum access. Buying a sub for a game I'm not interested in anymore makes no sense.

That is the bottom line. If a player likes the game in actual state, good for him. But also put a lot of players out of the fun. Bioware Austin don't understand it as nobody in Austin plays the game for fun. it is just a job.

[DarthDymond]

Alice: "I want a multiplayer-focused game"

Bob: "I want a story-focused game"

Chris: "I want a multiplayer-focused game"

Donna: "I want a story-focused game"

 

BW: [Focuses their game significantly more on story than multiplayer.]

 

Alice: "Well, guess this game isn't meant for me. That's cool, I'll go play something else. But I do want to let BW know that if they make it more multiplayer-focused, I'd consider coming back."

 

Bob: [Happily plays the game]

 

Chris: "I am personally offended that they made a game that isn't catered to my own tastes! BW should be ashamed of the utter disrespect they have for the property and the arrogance they are showing by not making a game that suits my preferences. Clearly they just don't care at all or else they'd be making the game the way I want it to be. Rawr!"

 

Donna: [To both Alice and Chris equally] "How dare you say anything bad about this perfect-perfect-perfect game! Rawr!"

 

[Chris and Donna fight back-and-forth on the forums ad nauseam]

 

(Rinse and repeat with "I like the Zakuul story" / "I don't like the Zakuul story"; "I hate Galactic Command" / "I don't mind Galactic Command"; "I like chocolate ice cream" / "I like strawberry ice cream"; etc.)

Edited January 14, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Xo-Lara]

While the above does represent a lot of the problem. Bioware has a slightly different problem in that they had a better balance which they have quite thoroughly destroyed. There will always be unhappy people, but it doesn't have to be as many as their are now.

 

Bioware lured players in with the promise of options then systematically removed or hamstrung those options. Now you have a bunch of players in a game they didn't come to play and weren't told they would be playing upfront. It's not fun for them, which causes discontent. Further, most unhappy players remember when they still had fun.

 

This leads to people complaining that Bioware destroyed their own product because those players remember when Bioware had met a variety of needs much better. It's not like they were 5 years in and still trying to figure out whether or not they had players who liked different playstyles.

 

Someone within Bioware management decided to rip the rug from under players for their own personal vision and now players who don't fit into that vision are upset. Their money was taken in addition to having the rug ripped from under them. BUT, the most vocal complainers complain because they still want the game. They don't want to leave. So now they are stuck with two options, either campaign for change or walk off.

 

Both are disagreeable, but only one stands a chance, however remote, of seeing a return to having fun in SWTOR.

[jedimasterjac]

Alice: "I want a multiplayer-focused game"

Bob: "I want a story-focused game"

Chris: "I want a multiplayer-focused game"

Donna: "I want a story-focused game"

 

BW: [Focuses their game significantly more on story than multiplayer.]

 

Alice: "Well, guess this game isn't meant for me. That's cool, I'll go play something else. But I do want to let BW know that if they make it more multiplayer-focused, I'd consider coming back."

 

Bob: [Happily plays the game]

 

Chris: "I am personally offended that they made a game that isn't catered to my own tastes! BW should be ashamed of the utter disrespect they have for the property and the arrogance they are showing by not making a game that suits my preferences. Clearly they just don't care at all or else they'd be making the game the way I want it to be. Rawr!"

 

Donna: [To both Alice and Chris equally] "How dare you say anything bad about this perfect-perfect-perfect game! Rawr!"

 

[Chris and Donna fight back-and-forth on the forums ad nauseam]

 

(Rinse and repeat with "I like the Zakuul story" / "I don't like the Zakuul story"; "I hate Galactic Command" / "I don't mind Galactic Command"; "I like chocolate ice cream" / "I like strawberry ice cream"; etc.)

 

Or, alternatively:

 

"I am upset that this game which I have invested over $800 in no longer provides content except for one portion of the game. I find it offensive that the game was marketed and sold as an MMO, while the latest expansions have done very much to minimize the 'massively multiplayer' aspect. Although I understand other players enjoy the solo aspect of the game, it is ridiculous and disrespectful to loyal subscribers and supporters of the game that the developers can not work to cater to many different subgroups."

[Theeko]

It's also quite amusing how they managed to screw with every aspect of the game from Pvp to Collectors.

[Xo-Lara]

Amusing isn't the word I'd use for it.

[PrincessShAmy]

Alice: "I want a multiplayer-focused game"

Bob: "I want a story-focused game"

Chris: "I want a multiplayer-focused game"

Donna: "I want a story-focused game"

 

BW: [Focuses their game significantly more on story than multiplayer.]

 

Alice: "Well, guess this game isn't meant for me. That's cool, I'll go play something else. But I do want to let BW know that if they make it more multiplayer-focused, I'd consider coming back."

 

Bob: [Happily plays the game]

 

Chris: "I am personally offended that they made a game that isn't catered to my own tastes! BW should be ashamed of the utter disrespect they have for the property and the arrogance they are showing by not making a game that suits my preferences. Clearly they just don't care at all or else they'd be making the game the way I want it to be. Rawr!"

 

Donna: [To both Alice and Chris equally] "How dare you say anything bad about this perfect-perfect-perfect game! Rawr!"

 

[Chris and Donna fight back-and-forth on the forums ad nauseam]

 

(Rinse and repeat with "I like the Zakuul story" / "I don't like the Zakuul story"; "I hate Galactic Command" / "I don't mind Galactic Command"; "I like chocolate ice cream" / "I like strawberry ice cream"; etc.)

 

This sums things up so perfectly! For me, it is like this:

 

I like to play solo because I can do my own thing.

 

I enjoy grouping up with others because I am a social person. "Group content" has a much broader definition for me - it includes 4 people, 8 people, Flashpoints, Operations, PvP, Conquest.

 

My love for a handful of characters that I have created are what keep me in the game. I just want to be able to play them. And since I don't binge on content, it isn't old for me even after four years. Do I like or agree with all that Bioware has done? Absolutely not. However, I will continue to sub until the game shuts down.

 

We all play for our own reasons. I don't know how it would be possible to make a majority of people happy.

[Andryah]

Simple answer to the question really.......

 

Expressions of hatred are what fuel much of the social expression on the internet, particularly where digital games are concerned.

 

You cannot reason with it. Why? Because it is an unreasonable response to a frustration. Some people are simply unreasonable, or looking for their 15 minutes of fame on the interent.

 

You can offer contrasting narratives to help less hateful people see through the hatred. This counteracts some of the chaos from all the hatred as it helps less informed player avoid falling into the hate .. but it also makes you a target for hatred as well. Some people don't like their hatred questioned or contrasted, and will then make you their target for their hate and frustration. So if you go this route, you need to be dispassionate and detached from the hatred, even when agreeing with the expressed frustrations.

 

TL;DR: some people never learned how to manage their frustrations in a positive manner.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Andryah

[Xo-Lara]

While some people never learned to behave themselves online, part of the hate is a backlash against being told one isn't experiencing the loss of fun one is clearly experiencing. They wouldn't bother to post on the forum if they were busy having fun in game, so they did in fact stop having fun somewhere along the line.

 

Players and devs a like can avoid fueling the backlash by acknowledging they can't tell another player what their subjective experience is. Saying another person should just drop their issues because you personally are not that attached to the concept just fuels that frustration. A little empathy would go farther than trying to win arguments then calling someone unreasoning because winning arguments leads nowhere.

 

By all means point out that someone's manners are lacking or that they are attacking other players, but acknowledge that they have valid reasons for feeling upset even if you disagree with the expression.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Xo-Lara
spelling issues

[Narrowsws]

I understand the game needs improvement. It much much better then when it first launch. We didn't have command center that awarded you gear based on chapters. It's fun you can play a boosted person then jump right into the story. These chapters didn't exist when I left. I spent nearly ten hours straight when I got back just playing through the story. While I understand they're is hate and anger, is it really that bad? I think not.

[Xo-Lara]

Keep in mind that you are trying to judge someone else's subjective experience, by your own experience. That's not always a one to one comparison. For you might not be that bad, but you also might not see reason for it because the parts of the game you are enjoying haven't been changed in way that stops you from having fun yet. You can't fully judge an experience you haven't necessarily had.

 

I don't worry about GC because I don't have access to it, I don't want to grind, and it has nothing for me. There is no need to concern myself with it, but I can still empathize with the players that do. I can see how the system undercuts them even if it doesn't undercut me.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Xo-Lara

[Radzkie]

They wouldn't bother to post on the forum if they were busy having fun in game, so they did in fact stop having fun somewhere along the line.

 

This is so incredibly wrong and for some reason this belief seems to be widespread on these forums.

 

Back in the day when I hardcore raided here, I loved the **** out of this game. I was a mega fanboy AND I went to these forums on the daily. Most of my guild did. We enjoyed all the epeen fights with other raiders on my server forum, class forums to discuss changes, general discussion, etc... pretty much posted in every forum on here.

 

I was never a white knight, but I was a happy customer and a happy forum-er.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Radzkie

[Xo-Lara]

We are talking in the context of posting hate. So are you saying you loved the game then came back to the forum to post hate everywhere? That makes no sense. Edited January 14, 2017 by Xo-Lara
misunderstood previous post

[Radzkie]

edit: you edited your post so now I have to edit my reply.

You understood my reply before editing your post but here:

 

I was happy with the game and ALWAYS having fun, but sometimes there were little things I didn't like. Nerfs to classes and raids etc. I sometimes posted "hate" aka valid criticism that some people get offended over.

 

I enjoy forums so I play games while posting on their forums.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Radzkie

[Xo-Lara]

Yeah, because the context of the thread was the hate but I suspect that your original post wasn't.

[Radzkie]

Edited

 

tl;dr not all people are black and white. People can enjoy some parts of a game and dislike others.

 

Also there are people who enjoy forums in general. I can be in game waiting on a raid, flashpoint or uprising, putting up items on the market, have nextflix playing and be tabbing out once in awhile to post on the forum. Having fun with certain parts of the game, while complaining aka "hating on" others.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Radzkie

[Xo-Lara]

There is a big difference between complaining and the kind of all consuming flood-the-forum-with-complaint-threads hate that comes with major Bioware setbacks. That's usually the "hating" that gets the most backlash from people who don't share the view. To my understanding, that was the kind this thread was about.

 

To illustrate, you are talking about liking a shirt and complaining about the color and I'm talking about hating a whole clothes line and picketing outside of the shirt company's corporate offices. Those aren't the same or equivalent.

 

Now if you are the kind of person to picket just because you hate a minor aspect of one facet of the game then that's one thing, but the threads that have been garnering the most attention from both side have have been about major features.

[Radzkie]

From my experience White Knights don't know the difference. Anything negative = "hate" to them. Dunno if the OP is one, but I still cannot be exactly sure what kind of "hate" he was talking about. The OP is not that clear.

 

Edit: by the way, im am not a fanboy anymore. I could be considered a hater or whatever because I've lost faith in the devs.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Radzkie

[Narrowsws]

From my experience White Knights don't know the difference. Anything negative = "hate" to them. Dunno if the OP is one.

 

Edit: by the way, im am not a fanboy anymore. I could be considered a hater or whatever because I've lost faith in the devs.

 

That's not true. They're are valid things to complain about. Maybe its the language and tone, for example:

 

Person: Oh I hate the game..why didn't the Devs do what I asked..now they're game will be a flaming burn out. I will write every few days how game is dying, even though they gave us chapters.

 

People seem to get really really carried away when talking about the future. Of course, there are valid things to discuss. Like how PVP needs more content more often or end game raiding situation or even RNG though its random.

 

People seem to really get caught up sometimes I think I'm reading a horror story novel.

[Radzkie]

Wait... whats not true in my post? Edited January 14, 2017 by Radzkie

[Narrowsws]

Wait... whats not true in my post?

 

I don't mean you when I say this person. I'm just making up a random post. Most of the time I silently read the forums, its just this hostile reaction. It's not just disagreeing with someone. It's going further. It's claiming game will fail. It's just very very detailed explaining how game will crash and burn and predictions for the future. All doom and gloom.

[Radzkie]

Oh, you meant you're not a white knight and you see the difference. I understand now.

[Narrowsws]

Oh, you meant you're not a white knight and you see the difference. I understand now.

 

Of course. There are very very valid things to discuss. When I first came to this game. Tons of stuff like graphics, interface it, The constant nerfing and buffing. There are almost an endless list. I could make complaints about. I do understand difference "voicing a complaint" to "hostile ************"

 

I suppose, I am having fun with the chapters. I just don't get why some people are not more happy. Those chapters are a ton of new content. I never played. Yes like end game raiding could use a major boost.