To those who think 228 crafted equipment is crap...

[psandak]

He's dead to me now because there's no way I'll do the CXP grind on a toon that was only fun to play once in awhile...it's far too daunting to even think about.

 

On this we agree 100%. I will be leveling my myriad alts to level 66 to get the 8 companions for crew skills and they are done. Only when my guild goes on a conquest (where we actively attempt to win) will these toons ever reach 70 and maybe get some CXP and crates (because we will be running SMOps over and over).

 

I have leveled four characters to 70 thus far: a tank, a healer, and dps on pub and a dps/heals on imp. My healer on Pub is my main.

Edited January 12, 2017 by psandak

[stoopicus]

I have leveled four characters to 70 thus far: a tank, a healer, and dps on pub and a dps/heals on imp. My healer on Pub is my main.

 

It's so funny/sad because this is where I think a lot of people are. I have the five characters I like to PvP and run heroics with at 70, the rest are 65 or 66 and built to stay that way.

 

I love how the new system was supposed to "simplify" things for everyone too, except then you throw in the bizarro world behavior of bolster and end up needing 40+ page threads like Hottie's to unravel the actual behavior to determine the gear you want. And even after doing all that testing, little bombs like the stance behavior affecting bolster like someone mentioned above keep dropping. Awesome.

 

And then there's the move back to crate items being predominately BoP for the rewards. I don't think I remember a more alt-unfriendly expansion for any MMO in a long time. You probably have to go all the way back to the bad old Sony days.

Edited January 13, 2017 by stoopicus

[stoopicus]

So I'm going to correct this because you keep spouting this is true in all cases and it is not. It may be true in most cases but it is certainly not true in all.

 

Since bioware in their infinite wisdom tried to do away with skank tanks, the bolster does not work for these classes. In 4.0, it bolstered based on gear. Now it bolsters based on stance. So if you are a tank for your team that wishes to be in dps gear to put more pressure on healers and other players, you will be severely hindered by the bolster. The difference in gear between 4.0 and now (with crafting) is something like 850 per stat in defense/shield/absorb vs the 300 per stat I currently get bolstered. (Because I'm obviously not in full BiS.)

 

In this case, you will probably want to gear up as fast as possible, otherwise you may as well be playing full tank.

 

Hey, so I just checked this and you're totally right. Thank you very much for pointing this out. Starting out at 70 with no utilities, in Immortal and Veng in the same gear my stats are the same; hitting the bolsterizer, in Veng both Mastery and Power get bolstered much more than in Immortal, and in Immortal, Endurance and so on get bolstered much more. Pretty solid bolster nerf to skank tanks, gear-wise, for gear at the same level.

 

Oh bolster, you special bit of code.

Edited January 13, 2017 by stoopicus

[_Shaddai_]

Hey, so I just checked this and you're totally right. Thank you very much for pointing this out. Starting out at 70 with no utilities, in Immortal and Veng in the same gear my stats are the same; hitting the bolsterizer, in Veng both Mastery and Power get bolstered much more than in Immortal, and in Immortal, Endurance and so on get bolstered much more. Pretty solid bolster nerf to skank tanks, gear-wise, for gear at the same level.

 

Oh bolster, you special bit of code.

 

I sent you a private message about this a bit ago. Figured we could take it there instead of here as to not hijack the thread. I don't think notifications work well on the forums though.

[stoopicus]

I sent you a private message about this a bit ago. Figured we could take it there instead of here as to not hijack the thread. I don't think notifications work well on the forums though.

 

Didn't see it. thanks. I ported this over to the PvP forum as well, probably can use the thread there.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It's so funny/sad because this is where I think a lot of people are. I have the five characters I like to PvP and run heroics with at 70, the rest are 65 or 66 and built to stay that way.

 

I love how the new system was supposed to "simplify" things for everyone too, except then you throw in the bizarro world behavior of bolster and end up needing 40+ page threads like Hottie's to unravel the actual behavior to determine the gear you want. And even after doing all that testing, little bombs like the stance behavior affecting bolster like someone mentioned above keep dropping. Awesome.

 

And then there's the move back to crate items being predominately BoP for the rewards. I don't think I remember a more alt-unfriendly expansion for any MMO in a long time. You probably have to go all the way back to the bad old Sony days.

 

The funniest part about PVP bolster was Eric outright stated the idea for PVP would be if you had better gear then you should be getting an advantage...

 

Question:

Will item rating give an advantage over other players with lower item rating gear in Warzones?

 

Answer:

Yup. Having an item rating advantage would mean that you have higher stats. In Warzones especially there would be other factors at play such as any stat optimization and of course individual player skill.

 

Just noticed this one too when finding that:

 

Bonus aside, it is the goal that fastest way to earn CXP will be through the hardest difficulty Operations and Uprisings, along with Ranked Arenas.

 

Yup operations are sooo fast to level GC heh.

 

It's funny how people still choose to believe anything they have to say. This is of course not Eric's fault being he is only the messenger.

[lobstah_rofls]

Since you've been playing since launch, how much mastery/endurance/presence are you getting from datacrons?

 

Particularly since all the old main stats became mastery, the mastery you get from a full datacron set is huuuuuuuge. Don't have the numbers in front of me, but iirc 228 with full mastery datacrons is almost the same amount of mastery as 240 with none.

 

Self quoting as this hasn't been answered yet.

 

When players have same or similar gear and significantly different results, it's more often datacrons rather than player skill, as people tend to forget about them and they are very significant.

[Neshira]

Due to bolster, 228 is fine for PvP, and since bolster is weird, 208 is even better, as noted a few posts above yours.

 

I've stopped worrying about gear for PvP. It hasn't been a problem at all, at least in regs.

 

I wouldn't know, I don't do PVP. I always assume you need the best gear for PVP since those people seem to be whining about that all the time so I've never bothered to try.

[Kawiki]

Self quoting as this hasn't been answered yet.

 

When players have same or similar gear and significantly different results, it's more often datacrons rather than player skill, as people tend to forget about them and they are very significant.

 

I'll disagree with you. Most people that have been playing for any significant amount of time have the vast majority of datacrons. While it could be a factor if you don't have them different results in the same gear level the majority of time comes down to skill.

[Kawiki]

I wouldn't know, I don't do PVP. I always assume you need the best gear for PVP since those people seem to be whining about that all the time so I've never bothered to try.

 

228 is ok to go into regs but you will be at a disadvantage with anyone that has a set bonus or a higher tier gear level. Ranked is a completely different animal and going in to that with no set bonus is a recipe for disaster as it often comes down to small differences in skill/gear.

[TUXs]

It's so funny/sad because this is where I think a lot of people are. I have the five characters I like to PvP and run heroics with at 70, the rest are 65 or 66 and built to stay that way.

It's sad to me...I have NEVER been an alt player...I like my one or two main toons and that's it...but something about 4.0 actually got me to play my alts...a lot actually. I'd switch toons literally every day...I haven't even logged on an alt since 5.0 hit.

[PlasmaJohn]

It's sad to me...I have NEVER been an alt player...I like my one or two main toons and that's it...but something about 4.0 actually got me to play my alts...a lot actually. I'd switch toons literally every day...I haven't even logged on an alt since 5.0 hit.

That stinks. I've tried to focus on my main (IO Merc) but I have a hard time sticking to one character. Consequently her CL is only 50. I keep bouncing between her my Lethality Op, Hatred Sin, and Madness Sorc. I want to bust out my Vengeance Jugg from time to time and I have a new Medicine Op working through DK.

 

#FeelsBadMan

 

I just spent the last week or so grinding out the parts to get them in mostly 230's all augmented (still need relics on two of them). My Sin has a full 6-piece but those are 204's. My Jugg too but she's got two 204's and the other four are 216's. The Op had extremely good luck in her early crates and already has a 2-piece in 230's. My poor sorc, nerfed to oblivion and no luck with the gear.

Edited January 13, 2017 by PlasmaJohn

[lobstah_rofls]

I'll disagree with you. Most people that have been playing for any significant amount of time have the vast majority of datacrons. While it could be a factor if you don't have them different results in the same gear level the majority of time comes down to skill.

 

You simply can't argue with the numbers. 228 with full datacrons has about as much mastery as 240 with none. It's a huge difference. You simply can't ignore them and have a meaningful comparison.

 

That much mastery will take ~30 minutes off a solo heroic Star Fortress run and be the difference between the Voss Exarch killing your companion and then you, and you crushing the Voss Exarch.

 

Most long term players are not particularly good, they are just average. They are 'good' and 'skilled' compared to people who whether new or long term, never learned their basic rotations or skill priorities aka how to play. Even doing ops doesn't mean someone is a good player as gear and familiarity with the gimmicks carries most ops players through all but the progression level.

 

Most players who have learned the basics are all about the same in skill level which is why the gear progression system works as it does and seemingly little improvements like going from 228 to 230 level gear makes a significant difference.

[casirabit]

You simply can't argue with the numbers. 228 with full datacrons has about as much mastery as 240 with none. It's a huge difference. You simply can't ignore them and have a meaningful comparison.

 

That much mastery will take ~30 minutes off a solo heroic Star Fortress run and be the difference between the Voss Exarch killing your companion and then you, and you crushing the Voss Exarch.

 

Most long term players are not particularly good, they are just average. They are 'good' and 'skilled' compared to people who whether new or long term, never learned their basic rotations or skill priorities aka how to play. Even doing ops doesn't mean someone is a good player as gear and familiarity with the gimmicks carries most ops players through all but the progression level.

 

Most players who have learned the basics are all about the same in skill level which is why the gear progression system works as it does and seemingly little improvements like going from 228 to 230 level gear makes a significant difference.

 

Going to have to disagree with you here. My boyfriend does not have all the datacrons but was able to solo the Star Fortress Heroic (and not the solo one) when it first came out. Skill and knowledge of mechanics can make a big difference in some situations.

Edited January 13, 2017 by casirabit

[stoopicus]

Going to have to disagree with you here. My boyfriend does not have all the datacrons but was able to solo the Star Fortress Heroic (and not the solo one) when it first came out. Skill and knowledge of mechanics can make a big difference in some situations.

 

Me too, but his point is still valid - the built-in boost to Mastery would make a reasonably challenging fight much easier.

 

The Voss one is harder than many of the others (the Exarch has the heal on that one).

Edited January 13, 2017 by stoopicus

[lobstah_rofls]

^^^ Thank you.

 

Going to have to disagree with you here. My boyfriend does not have all the datacrons but was able to solo the Star Fortress Heroic (and not the solo one) when it first came out. Skill and knowledge of mechanics can make a big difference in some situations.

 

When it first came out, companions were still godly, remember? Then they were nerfed. Then they were buffed but to nowhere near as powerful as when KoTFE came out.

 

You also don't say what kind of gear he had. Of course people were soloing them. I've soloed all of them. The question is what gear can you do it in. There was a huge difference between soloing them in 216 raid gear and 208 story gear. Some classes/players could do it in 208 story gear even after the companion nerf. There was also a big difference between 216/220 crafted/comms gear and 216/220 raid gear, with 216 raid gear being better than 220 crafted/comms.

 

Complicating matters is that the best players are progression raiders but they have the best gear, so don't generally try to do things like the experiment the OP in this thread tried.

Edited January 14, 2017 by lobstah_rofls

[casirabit]

^^^ Thank you.

 

 

 

When it first came out, companions were still godly, remember? Then they were nerfed. Then they were buffed but to nowhere near as powerful as when KoTFE came out.

 

You also don't say what kind of gear he had. Of course people were soloing them. I've soloed all of them. The question is what gear can you do it in. There was a huge difference between soloing them in 216 raid gear and 208 story gear. Some classes/players could do it in 208 story gear even after the companion nerf. There was also a big difference between 216/220 crafted/comms gear and 216/220 raid gear, with 216 raid gear being better than 220 crafted/comms.

 

Complicating matters is that the best players are progression raiders but they have the best gear, so don't generally try to do things like experiment the OP in this thread tried.

 

Well my boyfriend had good gear, as we both have been playing since launch so we know to make sure we have the right gear. He is also a Jedi Guardian, tank. I have laughed at times when I hear people say that a Jedi Guardian can't do this or that. I tell him and he goes out and does it just to prove them wrong.

 

The point I am trying to make is some people don't need all the datacrons if they know what they are doing. I have ran across people who have all the datacrons and still can't do it. Just last week we both did two uprisings and one group was great and then there was the second one, I shiver thinking about how many times we winded wiping because the one dps would not even stay out of stupid (circles). Even with all the datacrons that will not help a person like that.

[Baraxis]

Well my boyfriend had good gear, as we both have been playing since launch so we know to make sure we have the right gear. He is also a Jedi Guardian, tank. I have laughed at times when I hear people say that a Jedi Guardian can't do this or that. I tell him and he goes out and does it just to prove them wrong.

 

The point I am trying to make is some people don't need all the datacrons if they know what they are doing. I have ran across people who have all the datacrons and still can't do it. Just last week we both did two uprisings and one group was great and then there was the second one, I shiver thinking about how many times we winded wiping because the one dps would not even stay out of stupid (circles). Even with all the datacrons that will not help a person like that.

 

If a DPS dieing wipes the party in an Uprising, then the "party" has a nasty problem not the idiot who cant stay out of stupid. A tank with a solid healer or high influence companion can solo those. I have zero Ops gear, as in never had it, and I run SM uprisings with T7 at influence 27.

 

Gear does matter, but intelligence matters more.

 

Also chalk me up with the "228 crafter gang". Augged out Armormech 228 gear is the staple for all my 70s. Screw Galactic command.

[Andryah]

Gear does matter, but intelligence matters more.

 

This comment is extremely important in the discussion in my view.

 

Why? Because I honestly feel some players got used to easy access to over-powered gear for their actual day to day needs, and have now become reliant on gear rather then skill and intelligence.

 

We see it all the time in the forum...... player X makes a post complaining that they cannot beat NPC Y and that it needs a nerfing... when in reality... a dozen other players will engage them in converstation about the issue and find that player X was not making good use of his class skills, not timing interrupts, not moving to avoid damage pools, not using the proper companion role for their class and the encounter needs, etc. etc. etc.

 

Which brings us back to a common theme that is becoming more and more apparent in this forum ---> Play smarter, not harder.

 

Of course if you are not going to play smart.. then you need gear over-powered to the encounter you are trying to gimp play your way through.

[fatsi]

All crafted relics are crap, even 240 ones. Simply because they don't provide people with a certain stat. For example, crafted Focused Retribution relics do not grant critical stat. The loss is substantial, because you would need to make up for it with enhancements or augments. So, even 220 Exarch relics are better than 228 ones.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This comment is extremely important in the discussion in my view.

 

Why? Because I honestly feel some players got used to easy access to over-powered gear for their actual day to day needs, and have now become reliant on gear rather then skill and intelligence.

 

We see it all the time in the forum...... player X makes a post complaining that they cannot beat NPC Y and that it needs a nerfing... when in reality... a dozen other players will engage them in converstation about the issue and find that player X was not making good use of his class skills, not timing interrupts, not moving to avoid damage pools, not using the proper companion role for their class and the encounter needs, etc. etc. etc.

 

Which brings us back to a common theme that is becoming more and more apparent in this forum ---> Play smarter, not harder.

 

Of course if you are not going to play smart.. then you need gear over-powered to the encounter you are trying to gimp play your way through.

 

^ This seems to be a rather uneducated opinion from someone with little experience in progression raiding.

 

"easy access to over-powered gear" pfft, way to show off your ignorance though.

 

Post smarter, not harder.

[Halinalle]

All crafted relics are crap, even 240 ones. Simply because they don't provide people with a certain stat. For example, crafted Focused Retribution relics do not grant critical stat. The loss is substantial, because you would need to make up for it with enhancements or augments. So, even 220 Exarch relics are better than 228 ones.

 

Kinda pointless to go over 40-41%.