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How much CXP do you think you should be getting?


Soul_of_Flames

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you do pvp without a companion...should it reward as much as it does?

That kind of questions just prove how wrong this actual rewarding system is. How to reward different aspects of the game, when diferent aspects of the game are black or white. Playing story has nothing to compare with GSF or PVP. Story mode has nothing to do with Hard / Veteran modes. Since each player is a world on himself, you can't reward fairly to all the players doing very different things. Before 5.0, each aspect of the game had its own rewards, so people knew how to improve through the parts they liked. Now is a mess that can't be fairly adjusted for all the players (they just started nerfing mobs. i am stuck in veteran chapter 7 in kotet and 2 elites are making my repair droid a rich one. Even for a challenge, some combats are stupidly insane and untested. And all i will get from them, if i beat them, are 2 GC XP points LOL. And no, the challenge is not adequated for the reward).

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Agree. Honestly I look forward to the PvP weekly crafting crate *far* more than I do the CXP crates at this point.

 

Exactly. Exactly, exactly, exactly.

 

I don't even look forward to getting the Command crates any more because the drop rate of set bonus gear inside the crates is so low. Plus, it takes so freaking long to get a crate anyway.

 

But the weekly PvP crafting crate? That's a different story! Those mats sell for millions....

 

I had thought this new system would make it not fun to play alts. But instead what it's done is make me just not care about gear (thank God that with the absence of expertise, PvP bolster finally works properly.) Now I play my alts in pvp to get the crafting crate every week, and the Conquest bonuses.

 

/shrug

Edited by Darkbloom
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CXP should be a vanity meter...not a gearing one. CXP should measure how many 'things' you've done, not how many points you've been able to grind. They said one crate an hour, they quite obviously lied as that being a goal because it's literally impossible past level 50 for a 'normal' player.

 

If the drop rates on set bonus gear are going to be as terrible as they are, it really ought to be 2 crates per hour, and that's for a normal player, not the players who mathematically optimize their grind.

 

Either that, or the drop rates need to significantly improve.

 

Remember when we were all saying how disappointing RNG was going to be, and our absolute worst case hypothetical scenarios were so much better than what we have?

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So are you saying that challenge isnt rewarding in and of itself? The only reason you do hm is to get rewards faster? you can do sm 3 times and it is just as good as doing nim once?

 

I do it for both challenge and rewards of course. But the post I quoted heavily implies that the only reward should be the challenge.

That's just sounds like some BS by some people who can't (or simply won't for whatever reason ) do the hm/nim content. Kind of a petty attitude.

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If the drop rates on set bonus gear are going to be as terrible as they are, it really ought to be 2 crates per hour, and that's for a normal player, not the players who mathematically optimize their grind.

 

Either that, or the drop rates need to significantly improve.

 

Remember when we were all saying how disappointing RNG was going to be, and our absolute worst case hypothetical scenarios were so much better than what we have?

It's ridiculous right now. I can only hope that the numbers are so bad for Bioware that EA finally steps in and makes a change, since it's clear Austin has no clue.

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I think, in general terms of course (no way for me to test this)...

 

1 CXP for ANY kill, gather, open or craft action.

10 CXP for any kill silver or above, completion of mission content, completion of gathering missions

100 CXP for killing bosses or completion of hard content and player kills.

 

- Daily cap of 2000 CXP, weekly cap of 10k CXP, reduction of CXP required to level to 100, increase of GC levels to 1000.

- Increase of .02% to base stats for every level of GC gained, up to a max boost of 20%

- Loss of 300 GC levels for every 30 days of inactivity without a sub.

 

This way the system encourages a sub and active playing, but discourages grinding for CXP.

Edited by LordArtemis
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I think, in general terms of course (no way for me to test this)...

 

1 CXP for ANY kill, gather, open or craft action.

10 CXP for any kill silver or above, completion of mission content, completion of gathering missions

100 CXP for killing bosses or completion of hard content and player kills.

 

- Daily cap of 2000 CXP, weekly cap of 10k CXP, reduction of CXP required to level to 100, increase of GC levels to 1000.

- Increase of .0012% to base stats for every level of GC gained, up to a max boost of 25%

- Loss of 300 GC levels for every 30 days of inactivity without a sub.

 

This way the system encourages a sub and active playing, but discourages grinding for CXP.

Geezus...you'd make GC levels the new "must have loot". I am in favor of encouraging subs and continued play, but that 25% boost to stats is too much...no bonus should ever exceed 5% for anything and even that is too much imo...I refer it when the reward players with "stuff", not better stats.

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- Increase of .0012% to base stats for every level of GC gained, up to a max boost of 25%

- Loss of 300 GC levels for every 30 days of inactivity without a sub.

 

 

^^ Both of these are very bad ideas in my view.

 

The answer to the thread question is pretty straight forward: as originally promised by the studio... grant Cxp for effort on content such that you essentially are able to achieve a minimum of one level per hour of content play that rewards Cxp. Higher risk, large group content should reward more, but the one hour per level should be the floor payout for play.

 

They can effect this through a combination of adjusting Cxp payouts in a more intelligent and thoughtful manner + lower the Cxp leveling curve in some combination that achieves the above.

 

A lot of players are really worked up about the "grind... and ignore other rather careless settings in GC at launch. For example.. they appear to have made every mission or event completion reward exactly 20 Cxp. Regardless if it is a story mission, or a heroic, or a snowball, etc, etc. 20Cxp seems to be a pre-filled default in their entire system, and apparently nobody is actually looking at making thoughtful settings for Cxp... unless/until they observe or have reported some form of "exploited play" (meaning nothing more nefarious then... not intended) by players.

 

Setting proper Cxp pacing is not rocket science. All they had to do was assemble a focused and small beta team and give various members the assignment to play through specific content so that the studio could log it and then measure pace of progress in Cxp... then tune and adjust to meet their alleged "1 hour average per level". No signs at all that they did this prior to launch. No signs at all yet that they did this after launch either.

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Fair enough on the concerns about boosts, but hear me out on this.

 

I see this system as a horizontal progression system past level cap...one that can remain in place regardless of the current cap. This allows a player to continue to progress their character past the cap, past the max gear level, etc.

 

Just as it does with gear, it provides a base stat boost. In my eyes it is no different than providing another tier of gear, but the difference is you can lose it over time if you do not sub.

 

IMO...just mine mind you...it is a good sub promotion tool.

 

Also, my numbers were wrong, originally set for 20000 GC levels. At 1000 levels, that would only provide a boost of about 1.2 percent.

 

I propose this instead, and changed my original post.

 

Increase of .02% to base stats for every level of GC gained, up to a max boost of 20%

 

Note that at the current 300 level that would translate to only a 6 percent boost in stats.

Edited by LordArtemis
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There are three basic questions:

 

does BW want us to participate in ALL content, or just the content they want us to participate in?

 

i.e. right now running the Fractured Uprising is the most efficient CXP/time in game. it was heroics to start (specifically killing golds), then KP Trash, now Fractured. the former two were nerfed but Fractured has not been...yet. Bioware could be encouraging us to participate in Uprisings and therefore creating a confirmation bias in favor of Uprisings: "See EA lots of people are playing Uprisings! we did good by introducing them." Yet if Fractured was not the best CXP/time most of us would NOT be running it over and over.

 

does BW want us to group up in end game?

 

If all activities were made equal CXP/time how would that impact group activities (uprisings, FPs, PvP, GSF, Ops)? In 4.x the reason people grouped up for heroics was because the credits rewards were higher based on the number of group members and it was an exponential growth not linear; groups of four got more credits from running one set of heroics than a single player would get running four sets of heroics. If BW wants us to group then there has to be a tangible benefit AKA better CXP for grouping than soloing.

does BW want us to even attempt "more challenging" content?

 

Ideally, players should want to do more challenging content simply for the challenge not the rewards it generates, but we do not live in an ideal world; people want extrinsic rewards on top of the intrinsic value. Therefore to encourage us to participate in Veteran Modes and Master Modes of content, that content needs to produce more CXP than Story Mode content.

 

The short of this is, if BW wants us to group up and/or do more challenging content then those activities need to produce more CXP than solo and/or story mode content. If BW does not care what we do (as long as we pay to do it :p), then ALL activities should be CXP/time equal: spend an hour running a story chapter should be the same as taking that same time to run uprisings over and over...should be the same as running an operation for an hour...

 

ALL that being said, IMO the amount of CXP/time should be what Veteran Fractured offers. Vet Fractured should not not be nerfed, everything else should be brought up to that level of CXP/time.

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I admit I created my original list without actually knowing 90% of the current reward rates.

 

However, I also created my original list with an intentional leaning towards arbitrary numbers.

 

I valued each thing based on effort required vs time required. And I didn't mathematically check anything because that wasn't my intention for the discussion.

 

Anyway, I wanna make an updated version:

 

 

First thing to note is that its each level is approximately 4500 CXP (earlier tier ones closer to 4k, higher tier threes closer to 5k).

 

Secondly, It's important to note the drop rates on items in command crates and how the limited amount of gear being distributed is impacting the availability of capable players to run group content.

 

Thirdly, you need to consider the gear requirement for the activities you are mainly focusing on doing; IE if you just run solo content, you don't need hard mode rated gear.

 

Finally, you need to remember the side missions and types of enemies within the content you're doing also play a factor in the amount of CXP you gain. It's not just the turn-in that nets you the final total for your effort. (For example, Flashpoints and Operations have a number of champion level enemies that add up to quite a bit of CXP at the end of the run in addition to the turn-in reward.)

 

CXP Pack values based on information found on Dulfy.net ( http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/swtor-galactic-command-guide-2_thumb.jpg )

Defeating Opponents:

5 CXP per Elite enemy

25 CXP per Champion enemy

 

Exploration:

Small Security Chests should randomly drop green CXP grant consumables (Tiny, Very Small or Small)

Large Security Chests should randomly drop blue CXP grant consumables.

 

Crew Skills:

1 CXP per item you craft. Add 0.5 CXP per increased difficulty. (Grey rating = 1 CXP, Green = 1.5, etc)

1 CXP per crew skill mission multiplied by the grade of the mission. (Grade 1 = 1 CXP, Grade 10 = 10 CXP)

 

Solo Missions:

-25 CXP for a "Generic" mission turn-in. (Otherwise not specifically listed here)

x2 for a Heroic turn-in.

-250 CXP per completing "Planetary Missions" through Galactic Command.

\\~500 CXP for a planet with 5 Heroic missions ~ 20 minutes

\\\~1,500 CXP in an hour of similar content.

 

100 CXP for [solo] Eternal Championship

50 CXP for [solo+] Eternal Championship

100CXP / 200 CXP / 300 CXP per Weekly Eternal Championship turn-ins

\\700 CXP for [solo] and Weekly missions ~ 20 minutes *one-time per week per toon

 

PvP Missions (I have yet to try rated since 5.0, so I don't know if you earn more CXP per match than you do in unranked. I'm going to assume yes.):

(Match rewards are approximated since it changes with medals)

-700 CXP for a completed unranked match.

- +200 CXP for winning a completed unranked match.

\\~4,500 CXP an hour assuming constant 12min matches and winning each one.

 

-800 CXP for completed ranked match.

- +300 CXP for winning a completed ranked match.

\\~5,500 CXP an hour assuming constant 12min matches and winning each one.

 

50 CXP for unranked PvP Daily turn-in.

500 CXP for unranked PvP Weekly turn-in.

200 CXP for ranked PvP Daily turn-in

800 CXP for ranked PvP Weekly turn-in

 

-700 CXP for completed GSF match

- +300 CXP for winning a completed GSF match

\\~5,000 CXP an hour assuming constant 12min matches and winning each one.

 

-50 CXP for GSF Daily turn-in

-600 CXP for GSF Weekly turn-in

 

Story Chapters (15-30 minute solo content)

200 CXP per chapter completion.

x1 CXP multiplier for Story difficulty

x2 CXP multiplier for Veteran difficulty

x3 CXP multiplier for Master difficulty

 

Uprisings (10-20 minute group content):

300 CXP per Uprising completion

x1 CXP for Story Difficulty + Very Small CXP Pack from last boss

x2 CXP for Veteran Difficulty + Small CXP Pack from last boss

x3 CXP for Master Difficulty (if they ever add that) + Medium CXP Pack from last boss

\\~800 CXP for one Veteran Uprising; ~3,200 CXP per hour at 15min each.

 

300 CXP for Story Weekly turn-in

300 CXP for Veteran Weekly turn-in (intentionally the same as SM due to the weekly's requirements)

 

Flashpoints (15-45 minute group content):

250 CXP per Flashpoint completion

x1 CXP for Solo Difficulty + Very Small CXP pack from last boss

x2 CXP for Veteran Difficulty + Medium CXP Pack from all bosses

x3 CXP for Master Difficulty + Large CXP Pack from all bosses

\\~1,350 CXP per Master Flashpoint and ~3,240 CXP an hour on Master Difficulty at 25m each.

 

200 CXP for Veteran Weekly turn-in

300 CXP for Master Weekly turn-in

 

Operations (30-90 minute group content):

250 CXP (EV and KP) turn-in

500 CXP (For all other ops) turn-in

x1 CXP for Story Difficulty + very small CXP Pack from all bosses (small for last boss)

x2 CXP for Veteran Difficulty + small CXP Pack from all bosses (medium for last boss)

x3 CXP for Master Difficulty + medium CXP Pack from all bosses (large for last boss)

\\~3,800 CXP for completing an ~40min EV in Veteran mode

\\\~4,300 CXP for any other Veteran ops (other than KP)

 

-Bonus "Money" bosses should drop a single CXP pack relative to the difficulty mode of the phase that is rolled upon by the group.

 

 

I increased the numbers considerably from my original post. The reason being because I realized that the amount of actually useful gear received from command crates is minimal and only serves to hind content progression. One lucky person is held back by two or three unlucky people if they want to run group content that requires everyone involved.

 

That's why I think the amount of CXP gained should be increased exponentially, as seen above in the list I just provided. I'm going to edit my original post with this list.

 

Again, this is all personal conjecture and I insist other people make their own lists. A proper discussion on this can serve as adequate feedback for future CXP gains.

Edited by Soul_of_Flames
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Fair enough on the concerns about boosts, but hear me out on this.

 

I see this system as a horizontal progression system past level cap...one that can remain in place regardless of the current cap. This allows a player to continue to progress their character past the cap, past the max gear level, etc.

 

Just as it does with gear, it provides a base stat boost. In my eyes it is no different than providing another tier of gear, but the difference is you can lose it over time if you do not sub.

 

IMO...just mine mind you...it is a good sub promotion tool.

 

Also, my numbers were wrong, originally set for 20000 GC levels. At 1000 levels, that would only provide a boost of about 1.2 percent.

 

I propose this instead, and changed my original post.

 

Increase of .02% to base stats for every level of GC gained, up to a max boost of 20%

 

Note that at the current 300 level that would translate to only a 6 percent boost in stats.

 

I feel you should start gaining cxp at level 50, have it put in escrow until 70. This would help newer players and new characters of older players and kind of cushion the end game wall. CXP should see a dramatic raise, bring it to a box per hour for anything you do, not just pvp or gsf. Once people get discouraged with this it will be hard to bring them back in.

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That brings up the question, do you play more difficult content for the rewards or for the challenge?

 

People do it for both, of course.

 

is challenge its own reward?

 

No, of course not, except in the most esoteric sense. This question itself is typically posed by people that do not do endgame content at all, otherwise they would know the answer before asking it. People that seriously advocate this position should be ignored or perhaps mocked, because they are condescendingly trivializing the goals of people that put out a large amount of effort to achieve those goals.

 

And I say that as someone who hasn't raided in years and has no desire to.

 

Next question?

Edited by stoopicus
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-Bonus "Money" bosses should drop a single CXP pack relative to the difficulty mode of the phase that is rolled upon by the group.

 

 

I increased the numbers considerably from my original post. The reason being because I realized that the amount of actually useful gear received from command crates is minimal and only serves to hind content progression. One lucky person is held back by two or three unlucky people if they want to run group content that requires everyone involved.

 

That's why I think the amount of CXP gained should be increased exponentially, as seen above in the list I just provided. I'm going to edit my original post with this list.

 

Again, this is all personal conjecture and I insist other people make their own lists. A proper discussion on this can serve as adequate feedback for future CXP gains.

 

Except the problem is the idea of CXP is fundamentally flawed, just as the whole RNG basis for crates is. You can make CXP work in general if you retool the entire guiding premise, which means getting rid of the crates altogether.

 

I hate to bring up GW2 again, except that the endgame Mastery system looks like it was the "inspiration" for GC. What it had that GC doesn't is a selector. You pick what ability you channel your endgame experience toward, so if you want to be the best glider in all the universe, you can. If you want to earn some other ability first, you can choose to do so.

 

What I'd suggest is a selector toward what pieces you need or care about. Personally, I couldn't give a crap about set bonus as a solo/story player. But I'd love to have the increased stats. I don't have boots yet, so I pick "boots" from said fictional interface, and set my slider toward "non-set bonus." The non-bonus item would take half the CXP of the set item to earn. I'd get the boots, then move on to chest-- or whatever. Once all pieces in the first tier set are earned, the player "levels up" to a second tier, then third. This gives the player full agency and goals to work toward. It avoids duplicated effort, which I think every player hates.

 

I have no idea what Bioware's thinking with a gearing/grind curve in general, so suggesting CXP modifiers based on existing values is more speculation than I'm willing to indulge at the moment.

 

I'd suggest as a compensatory measure for the set bonus cost that higher difficulty stuff earns double rewards.

 

Or you can make crates work by switching toward a time basis, and a tier-up bonus based on difficulty, since this seems so important to raiders, etc.

 

The system as is, though, is so bad that it's impossible to modify fairly. I'd kill to have crystals and tiered comms-type gear back so I don't have to go through the whole GC rigamarole.

 

Disclaimer: I accidentally disintegrated something I could use last night, because I forgot which alt I was on :( It took forever to earn since I'm a story player, so the loss feels even worse. My hatred for the system is at an all-time high right now, so pardon the extreme bitterness.

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I am fine with the amount and/or rate of CXP I can generally get but 300 levels when it's not legacy wide is crazy. 90 levels of ilvl230 gear? I mean come on, that is ridiculous. At level 30 or 45 at most, I should unlock a vendor that lets me buy 230 gear. As it stands, most people will be gearing from the market board anyway.

 

"How many licks does it take?" "I never made it without buying." I had a full 230 set by like GC level 15 because why bother waiting to see how long it takes. At GC ~30 I have 3 set bonus pieces so I am one of the "lucky ones" but I'm also gradually just buying 240 gear already anyway.

 

Punchline to that having 3 set bonus pieces thing? They're on my lightning sorc. Ba dum bum!

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CXP Rewards SHOULD be based on time it takes to do it. Not difficulty of said content.

 

Everyones time is equally as important as the next, someone should not be penalised because of HOW they choose to play the game. They may not have the TIME to deal with lower rewards due to work, family, RL commitments ( caring for sick or special needs or anything the fact is you just don't know ).

 

What I would be ok with is ops bosses and HM flashpoint bosses having a chance to drop the items, for those who actually like doing that content.

 

I'll admit, some of the stuff I have read in this thread so far as made me bristle somewhat.

 

Stop penalizing people for playing a GAME... that's for enjoyment and entertainment... in the way that they find the most enjoyable or suits their lifestyle better.

 

The argument that people like to do 'easy content' because its easy is an old one. A lot of solo players actually like the challenge of seeing what they CAN solo. Other people do just like to casually cruise through and there is nothing at all wrong with that. different strokes for different folks. SHOULD NOT HAVE A PENALTY. That mind set is back with the original MMO's ever created and it needs to go. Time for a new ERA of gaming.

 

Your way is no more special then someone else's, please stop thinking it is.

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All i know is that I was galactic command rank 25 when I logged on tonight. I did a planetary quest activity because it had the bonus (though I suspect I got the same cxp as if it didn't have the bonus), I did a gsf match and I did a random veteran flashpoint. After all that I was... galactic command rank 25. I still needed about 500 cxp to hit 26. That pretty much killed my playing desire for a while. If it takes so much effort and activities to go from 25 to 26, what will going from 105 to 106 be like?
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People do it for both, of course.

 

 

 

No, of course not, except in the most esoteric sense. This question itself is typically posed by people that do not do endgame content at all, otherwise they would know the answer before asking it. People that seriously advocate this position should be ignored or perhaps mocked, because they are condescendingly trivializing the goals of people that put out a large amount of effort to achieve those goals.

 

And I say that as someone who hasn't raided in years and has no desire to.

 

Next question?

 

if you kill 5 bosses in df sm and someone else killed the same 5 bosses in df hm, havent you killed the same 5 bosses? you showed more skill but didnt kill any more opponents than the other guy. Beating these bosses is mainly knowing the steps and timing. running your rotation properly. It isnt like you cured cancer. The devs already measure cxp by time spent. reward time spent and go on from there.

 

someone that struggles to complete sm may very well put every bit of effort that you put into nim, they just arent as good at it as you are. GC grind rewards persistence rather than skill, thats what a grind is all about.

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CXP Rewards SHOULD be based on time it takes to do it. Not difficulty of said content.

 

Everyones time is equally as important as the next, someone should not be penalised because of HOW they choose to play the game. They may not have the TIME to deal with lower rewards due to work, family, RL commitments ( caring for sick or special needs or anything the fact is you just don't know ).

 

What I would be ok with is ops bosses and HM flashpoint bosses having a chance to drop the items, for those who actually like doing that content.

 

I'll admit, some of the stuff I have read in this thread so far as made me bristle somewhat.

 

Stop penalizing people for playing a GAME... that's for enjoyment and entertainment... in the way that they find the most enjoyable or suits their lifestyle better.

 

The argument that people like to do 'easy content' because its easy is an old one. A lot of solo players actually like the challenge of seeing what they CAN solo. Other people do just like to casually cruise through and there is nothing at all wrong with that. different strokes for different folks. SHOULD NOT HAVE A PENALTY. That mind set is back with the original MMO's ever created and it needs to go. Time for a new ERA of gaming.

 

Your way is no more special then someone else's, please stop thinking it is.

I can rebut everything you said using the exact same points. It's a game. Games have rules in which you abide by in order to succeed. If you're playing chess, you don't whine about how you should be winning because you put the same amount of time in as the person who is beating you.

 

Basing everything solely on the time put in is an incredibly flawed and entitled argument. For example, lets say I log in and idle on fleet for 3 hours just talking in general chat. That's what I like to do and that's how I like to enjoy this game. Now, do you honestly think its fair for me to be able to get the same amount of rewards as people who use that same amount of time honing their skills and tackling the toughest stuff the game has to offer?

 

People keep throwing the word "penalized" around like it means something. You are not being penalized for choosing to do content that rewards you with less. It's YOUR DECISION to do the lower rewarding content. And the people doing the higher rewarding content have absolutely no impact on what YOU choose to do. Therefore you are not being penalized for anything. You only think you are because you're assuming your entitled to all the game's rewards. And when something comes up that's "too hard" or "too social" for you, you take that as them locking you out of what is rightfully yours.

 

But no. If you don't put the effort in, you don't get the rewards out. It's as simple as that. And no amount of time in game is going to change that simple fact.

 

If anyone is being penalized, it would be the people who try their best to do the hardest stuff only to watch as all their effort is neglected and ignored when the game rewards them with the same "participation" rewards as the people who just happened to log in.

 

Now, look, I enjoy solo content. In fact, I enjoy trying to solo group content just to see if I can do it. Just yesterday, actually, I managed to solo a story mode uprising. Doing it solo obviously took more time to do than with a group since it wasn't designed to be played that way. On top of that, I only got the reward for completing what I completed. It was incredibly time inefficient, when it came to CXP rewards. But that wasn't the reason I did it, nor did I care about the CXP rewards. I did it just to see if I could do it and I did. But you don't see me whining that I didn't get the same rewards as the people who do group up and do the same uprising in a harder difficulty mode.

Edited by Soul_of_Flames
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