5.0 Gearing - A Gambler's Nightmare (Attention: Eric Musco)

[CrypticTrance]

My theory regarding that is, that, first off, they had a plan with a story arc properly developed for KotFE with 10 chapters, plus KotET with 9 chapters (this story arc didn't include that later became KtoFE 10-15 chapters).

In this scenario, no companions would have returned, we would have been left with Lana, Theron, Koth and HK, prob add in SCORPIO.

So I think what happened was that someone brought up that, hey, people will be angry if we don't give back their companions, so probably Bioware sneaked in an extra business case for KotFE chapters 10-15, in case it is approved, with the bait to EA that it will bring in more profits with the continuous subs over 8 months from Ch 10 to 16.

Seems like EA bit the bait, so they butchered the original sleek story arc, and put in those extra chapters to gain more time: to test more of KotET? To develop GC? To come up with Uprisings? We will never know, but Ch 16 was definitely coming later as originally planned, just as KotET, I am betting with a few months both being late.

This has nothing to do with this thread!!!!

[NaiadL]

We represent a 750+ member guild on the Jedi Covenant server. The guild runs 9 weekly raid teams and Friday and Saturday night open guild raids. Its members are also active in pvp and other SWTOR activities.

 

Prior to 5.0, raid team members were dedicated to progression as well as fun*and easy operation runs. People were committed to gearing their toons, honing their skills and tackling and completing the hardest content in the game. If one team member had bad rng on rolls for gear, the team could help them get the gear they were missing to help the team advance. With the advent of 5.0, all that has changed.

 

5.0 brought some good changes, such as the class changes which provided interesting new abilities to many classes. However, 5.0 also brought perhaps the most criticized, frustrating and hostile game change ever to be introduced to an active MMO.

 

In many people's perception, SWTOR can now*be likened to a gambling casino which feeds on people's propensity to seek the chance reward, provided there is intermittent reinforcement to keep them going. Put the money in the slot, pull the handle and see if you get the gear. If not, buy another command boost to feed the hungry SWTOR beast, grind some more and try again. Some people have said that they*consider SWTOR*to be*an unregulated online gambling site and wonder if federal regulators are investigating this aspect of the gaming community.

 

Rather than people gathering to focus on progression raiding, people feel compelled to focus on the grind to potentially get a gear drop that will help them with the harder content. Some people with good rng get multiple drops, while others endure the frustration of not getting a decent drop for perhaps 70 or 80 command ranks. Casual players are often more geared than hard core raiders. A team cannot support its undergeared members because the gear is all rng. Players are also forced to focus on lower level content which they have cleared for years until they can acquire the gear to continue with their progression teams. Some players simply do not have the time to grind the command ranks and will not be able to access the gear they need to continue on their progression teams. For others, the tedium and boredom of the grind is extreme.

 

People who have submitted tickets complaining about the system have reported that they get a generic response that demonstrates no real concern about the situation. Calls to customer service have been met with the recommendation to post a complaint on reddit or other forums to get the attention of SWTOR executives since there is nothing customer service can do to address the situation.

 

5.0, in many people's view, is a system which is frustrating, demeaning to long time raiders, and yet addictive to those with the slightest gambling tendency. Perhaps there should be a SWTOR Anonymous site for those who cannot break away from the grind long enough to tend to personal affairs. The whole system is a travesty to a game that people have played for years and immensely enjoyed because it provided challenging and enjoyable content.

 

The changes announced for January go a small way to address the current level of frustration many players are experiencing. However, the changes are minimal and will not truly fix a system that has been horribly broken. Players are leaving the game and others are contemplating leaving if a big fix is not coming. While casual players may like the new changes because they do not have to do operations to get gear, the reality is that casual players do not need the new gear.

 

In our view, it is imperative that SWTOR substantially address the broken gearing system before there is a mass exodus from the game. Raiders have endured no new operation content for over two plus years. To now strip them of their gear, force them to grind and provide such a small chance of gear is disrespectful and a slap in the face to a community that has paid for and supported this game since inception.

 

Simple fixes could include such things as upping the rate and quality of drops in the command crates, lowering the tier level requirements, and providing guaranteed gear drops on each boss rather than a random drop on some bosses with only one guaranteed drop. Such changes would still provide SWTOR with the financial gain from command boosts, but also provide gear to those players who actually need it to continue with progression raiding.

 

We strongly recommend that SWTOR consult with the GM's of leading guilds on all servers to come up with a*satisfactory and substantive fix to this*situation before people leave the game and it dies.

 

Thank you! Very well said and I agree completely.

 

Our guild is in a situation now where many players have left, and others are basing their decision to leave or not on the upcoming "fixes," but unfortunately we have already lost many members of our raid teams.

 

Most in our guild would like to see the operations gearing returned to what it was prior to 5.0.

 

If there is such a focus on wanting the command boxes to be a major part of the game, then why not put items in the command boxes that players would WANT, rather than trying to force players to grind for the boxes in order to have chances to get gear they NEED to do what they want to do in game?

[Andryah]

Indeed.

 

That said, let's acknowledge that a guild of singularly dedicated raiders has little reason to hang around any more.

 

Let's also acknowledge, however, that if raid-only players were a truly vital segment of the customer base, they simply would not be treated this way.

 

We would not have gone two years without a new op, nor would most of the changes of the last two expansions have been made.

 

Absolutely agree with this assessment.

 

Clearly, once the studio announced no more NiM OPs ever.... the handwriting was pretty well all over the wall. Hardcore OPs guilds and players have simply been ignoring the writing on the wall.. I guess in hopes that things will change in their favor.

 

Most of the members of our guild have been together for years, and for multiple MMOs.. and we long ago learned not to focus too extremely on any single line of content.... because studios can and will mess with content over time... so it's best to diversify play and be adaptable to changes.

[Andryah]

Most in our guild would like to see the operations gearing returned to what it was prior to 5.0.

 

With literally no new OPs in more then two years now.. why on earth would you expect this? Much less really want it... since it's simply rescaled OPs now days?

 

There have been 7 expacs in 5 years with this MMO, and OPs were left behind for more then two years now. Clearly.. the studio knows they will lose progressive raiders who play only to raid.... but have apparently decided that it is OK to let that minority segment move on. Don't have to like it, and many do not... but to deny it is kind of failed logic at this point.

[captsmash]

people keep saying the truth here. Crafted gear is trash compared to set bonus gear period. With bolster you do not need crafted gear for anything except hm ops, and honestly the loss of the set bonus is a loss of dps, ehps, and mitigation. Because of this crafted gear is useless. For the love of god please learn this truth.

 

bump!!!

[dontbeswg]

bump!!!

 

what I don't get is these casuals coming in here and talking like they know the game... stick to your element and admit you're the reason the devs how been allowed to get away with two years without producing a raid!

[dontbeswg]

1) All 5.0 proved is the devs played overwatch rather than developed the game

 

2) This is a failure and..

 

3) shut it down or fix it EAware, because this game is not working anymore.

[TUXs]

People keep saying the truth here. Crafted Gear is trash compared to Set bonus gear PERIOD. With Bolster you do not need crafted gear for anything except HM Ops, and honestly the loss of the set bonus is a loss of DPS, EHPS, and mitigation. because of this crafted gear is USELESS. for the love of god please learn this truth.

EXACTLY lol! Crafted gear is great for players who don't know what they're doing.

[DanNV]

EXACTLY lol! Crafted gear is great for players who don't know what they're doing.

 

That about covers it.

 

Bck to guilds and raid teams, my group only had 5 people show up tonight. We got one other guildie to join in and pugged the other two. The other guildie has terminated his sub and runs out the 25th. Both pugs have terminated and will run out in the next month or so. That's not a good sign for BW from where I'm standing.

[NaiadL]

With literally no new OPs in more then two years now.. why on earth would you expect this? Much less really want it... since it's simply rescaled OPs now days?

 

There have been 7 expacs in 5 years with this MMO, and OPs were left behind for more then two years now. Clearly.. the studio knows they will lose progressive raiders who play only to raid.... but have apparently decided that it is OK to let that minority segment move on. Don't have to like it, and many do not... but to deny it is kind of failed logic at this point.

 

True points. Sadly, many don't expect it and that is why many have left or are about to leave. It is more of a hope now, as some of our raid members said they would not leave or they would come back if that (operations gearing returned to pre 5.0) happened.

 

Not all who left were only raiders, many played other aspects of the game and liked SWTOR, but that was their primary activity. We did have some newer players joining our raid teams who did need the gear, plus many players (including myself) with a lot of alts to gear, so we could play various roles. We were still working on the hard mode operations and hoped to move on to the NIM.

 

That said, that is one of the main things that is so frustrating about the grind they introduced, that it is all to get back to doing old scaled content. No one is really interested in grinding just to be able to go back to the old content they were already doing.

 

No one minded so much before, even though many hoped for new operations (not really thinking we would get any at this point), because it was fun to get together with friends and raid, along with helping our newer players get the hang of the operations.

 

Many of our guild members who left liked SWTOR and participated in other aspects of the game, but were not interested in grinding just to go back to doing what it was they wanted to do, the old scaled operations.

Edited January 4, 2017 by NaiadL

[StrawberryTawnny]

As a gaming raider, and a proud woman gamer this is my favorite game by far. I have been a part of this game and a non-stop subscriber from the beginning. I think they have slowly and consistently decided to forget about us and our needs. I am not a eloquent writer I wish I could put in better words how much I love raiding in this game, how loyal my friends and I have been to this game, how many people I have met and how close we have become. Now it seems this game is dying and people are on edge about it. You don't get gear. First their own mess up with raiding made it too easy to get gear and they punish us for it. Now they want to make it take forever to get gear doing the same stuff we have done for 5 yrs. Basically without a choice of subscribing oh yes and if you want command xp before you are 90 you have to buy boosts to do this. This is just crazy. they need to put better gear in the raids at the least and get us new raids and hopefully new raids more consistently at best. Also some of the comments about not needing set pieces you are clearly not clearing raid content or hard NIM content with 228 which are not better than 224's. My GM wrote the OP and I thank her for doing so. It needed to be said. Also how excited they seem to be about content later on this year well that is ridiculous this should have been done way before now and later this year come on. IF it sold cartel coins it would be done this month!!!!!! Edited January 4, 2017 by StrawberryTawnny

[Warlord_Maliken]

As a pvp'er and someone who plays a lot , i dont mind the system.

 

But yeah this game is very much like an unregulated online gambling casino. Both with the cartel market and the command rank system. I wouldn't be surprised if they got sued to hell for it. Its kind of sad to have the star wars name attached to it, brings the franchise down. But its a bit nuanced - i mean, swtor's cutscene experience is 10/10.

 

SwtoR cutscenes are 10/10 and its star wars, so that combo REALLY can get you hooked. Once hooked, you probably wont really want to continue playing the game very long @ max level, but thats why theres a hook! Its not like world of warcraft where they have high valued synapse gameplay with tons of content.

 

SO, i believe the company stoops to the 'casino' styled end game we see with CommandRank & CartelMareket. I'm not too much of a sucker for either but i do see it and its kind of disturbing.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Warlord_Maliken

[Cashkrusher]

It is truely a sad time when I see how some non-raiders think that this system works. Clearly it doesn't work and let me give you a view on how my Comand rank leveling has gone. I am on 3 of my guilds raid teams and fill in when needed for others since I am the GM. I am at Command rank 214 with 2 pieces of gear from tier 2, Now well into tier 3 I have 1 piece. The drop rate has been approx. every 54 to 60 Command ranks for gear pieces. The crates drop more useless jawa scrap, empty gear shells that should be in the cartel market and not crates, pets and useless crap. At this rate of drop I will have to be well into command rank 1000 to even be close to a full set of gear.

 

As for January's bandaid fix that will only guarantee gear piece tokens at last boss that need to be combined with command rank tokens it's use is minimal at best. This means that raid teams will have little wiggle room for fill ins unless the guild as a whole has progressed far enough in command rank to have those tokens. The ability of being able to find fill ins for a particular role has suffered since it will take years to get all our alts to a command rank high enough for those command tokens or gear.

 

The story is cute and lots of people have enjoyed it but the story doesn't change, once you did it on one toon it will be the same on another. The ball has been severely dropped on the content of this game and needs to be fixed asap before it is too late. They want us to believe the changes take time yet in the blink of an eye they shut the servers down immediately when their cartel market is affected. Let's face it money talks!!! If we hit them where it hurts in their wallet or bank account then fixes will happen and happen fast. We all need to ban together to demand a fix before its too late and this game we all have grown to love dies................

Edited January 4, 2017 by Cashkrusher

[Drexzil]

couldn't agree more.

[captsmash]

That said, that is one of the main things that is so frustrating about the grind they introduced, that it is all to get back to doing old scaled content. No one is really interested in grinding just to be able to go back to the old content they were already doing.

 

No one minded so much before, even though many hoped for new operations (not really thinking we would get any at this point), because it was fun to get together with friends and raid, along with helping our newer players get the hang of the operations.

 

Well said. I agree with this as well. When you were clearing the harder content Operations with relative ease and now you're forced to run repeated runs of Eternity Vault HM and Karaga's Palace HM just to get the same old CmD crates and crafting materials that everyone already has and agrees are complete wastes of time, it's not even worth it.

 

Why carry on doing the same thing, alas at a much lower level. Sure make the Operations harder, okay, but at least give some incentive for doing the content. You've made a large part of the game unrewarding and basically made the Lord of the Sith you've spent hours and hours getting to the highest level possible, only to knock them back to a Lvl 1 Sorc with a lighting blast and a single saber strike. Perfect (hopefully you can detect my loathing sarcasm here)!

[Vember]

EXACTLY lol! Crafted gear is great for players who don't know what they're doing.

 

Actually....people that know what they're doing can utilize crafted gear. The ones that don't would rather complain on the forums.

 

Not that I completely disagree with the OP, but Nempo and Andryah have valid points. My guild is also running old endgame content in crafted gear. You people are massively exaggerating the benefit that set bonuses provide.

[DrJAWz]

I'll believe it only when your supposedly 750 members come to this thread.

 

Do you know how they (EA, Bioware) measure a happy subscriber compared with an unhappy subscriber? Yeah, I don't know either. Fact is, if your guild is that big and subscribing to the content, they show they are happy with the game.

 

The Guild is Holocron on the Jedi Covenant server. they have 254 qualifying accounts, and over 750 toons in guild. and this forum thread is full of guild member response, additional comments, and support from non-guildies also.

 

EA/Bioware measure our happiness through the surveys they send to us, and by reading content in these forums. just because I have paid to play a game doesn't mean I am satisfied with it, nor does it mean that I will continue to pay for it if I do not enjoy it going forward. The goal of the original post is to bring awareness to the development team that reads these posts, that we as a player base want to support them, but will ultimately stop doing so if they fail to provide us with content that we enjoy (new 8-16 man operations with veteran and master level difficulty), and if they continue to use command crates as the main way to gear up for the content then they have shot themselves in the foot to the point where the game will bleed out and die.

[TUXs]

That about covers it.

 

Bck to guilds and raid teams, my group only had 5 people show up tonight. We got one other guildie to join in and pugged the other two. The other guildie has terminated his sub and runs out the 25th. Both pugs have terminated and will run out in the next month or so. That's not a good sign for BW from where I'm standing.

Not a good sign at all. We used to have 40+ people in Mumble...last night we had 7...

 

If Bioware doesn't care, then that's fine...it is what it is. If they DO care, they need to move their asses and fix this cluster ****!

[TUXs]

You people are massively exaggerating the benefit that set bonuses provide.

For casual players, sure. Set bonus or not, they won't likely know the difference. For players who do understand it, it's a HUGE benefit, especially in PvP. The reduction in defensive cooldowns has gotten my team a win MANY times.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

For casual players, sure. Set bonus or not, they won't likely know the difference. For players who do understand it, it's a HUGE benefit, especially in PvP. The reduction in defensive cooldowns has gotten my team a win MANY times.

 

These are the people who run Story Ops and have never cleared the real HM/NiM content. I haven't cleared everything in HM yet (Ravagers/ToS) due to the team focusing on the other raids first, but set bonuses do make a huge difference in dps check bosses. Anyone who says otherwise is either running with a team getting carried or lying.

Edited January 4, 2017 by ZETA_SCORPII

[Vaerah]

For casual players, sure. Set bonus or not, they won't likely know the difference. For players who do understand it, it's a HUGE benefit, especially in PvP. The reduction in defensive cooldowns has gotten my team a win MANY times.

 

Exactly! I have played a lot of ranked team PvP in the past. Some set boni were just "meh", but some were almost "part" of the class, a must have. In example, bonuses that would make a resource starved class suddenly competitive, others that would yield to +20% damage for some seconds (useful on my burst classes) and so on.

 

Mix-mashing PvP and PvE gear and gating PvP gear behind months of RNG attempts is the catastrophe nowadays only rookies companies do. Sad to see BW actually worked the right way for years, just to "return rookie" at 5.0.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Vaerah

[Bullmark]

Players have been conditioned to be rewarded with loot for completing a game activity. With 5.0, crystals/comms were taken away, gear that could be bought for crystals/comms were taken away, set piece gear was taken out of ops, and all players are left with is a chance lootbox, which for most most part, contains vendor trash a majority of the time. NOT FUN.

 

Devs need to reverse course before the entire ship sinks, and fast.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Bullmark

[skozsert]

/signed

[DrJAWz]

Actually....people that know what they're doing can utilize crafted gear. The ones that don't would rather complain on the forums.

 

Not that I completely disagree with the OP, but Nempo and Andryah have valid points. My guild is also running old endgame content in crafted gear. You people are massively exaggerating the benefit that set bonuses provide.

 

crafting mods and enhancements to optimize gear and provide a boost in stats while keeping "old" armorings containing a set bonus is and will always be a thing. That practice is not new with 5.0. The bonus a set piece provides is valuable to the point where it can give you the added crit shot needed to beat enrage timers, or provide energy to squeeze out that extra heal to save the tank from the sudden spike damage, or provide a better cooldown to enable you keep your rotation going and not losing the threat generated to keep the boss from moving to the raid. If a set piece bonus was not a valuable addition to the game the developers would not have included them, and they would not evolve them with different expansions to fit the desired balance and raid requirements.

 

As for non set pieces like ear, implant, and relics... operations level drops have always been better than comms gear and crafted gear. (except in some tanking classes, which could argue endurance vs. mitigation). Having these pieces only available through a random crate drop with so much rng is flat out obnoxious.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Also on Jedi Covenant, which from experience used to be the most active raiding server on the East Coast. It may still be, considering most people have been moving to Harbinger from all the servers.

 

However, unlike most people here, I came for the story and stayed for Galactic Starfighter, although I'm a HM/NiM raidier.

 

Why not reimplement this system 100% back to the golden age of 2.0-2.9 and use Galactic Command as a way for all players to access top tier gear.

 

THANK YOU! I have been saying this since BEFORE Galactic Command went live.

 

Some form of acknowledgment of our ideas and specific reasons as to why or not they are plausible is part of sub cost IMO because unhappy players means unsubbing and that means no money, so I've come to the conclusion 5.0 is the last xpac here to milk profits.

 

I came to that conclusion when I first saw what the ending of the story was for this expansion. Agreed.

 

I DO NOT WANT THIS GAME TO END.

 

I don't either. Although as soon as my friends unsub, I'm going to be gone too, since I'll have no reason left to play.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited January 4, 2017 by FlavivsAetivs