This is not WoW ... stop trying to make it WoW

[Xploits]

I rarely try and do this. I have been to my fair share of MMO starts and I have been in WOW since the beginning. I'm not a MMO master or fanatic, but I do enjoy them. So Ill share some opinion to try and bring things back around.

 

I started MMO 'swith WOW. I love Blizzard games and have always loved them. WOW started hard. SW looks very similar. WOW had a good story (if you read the quest log), and made a unique universe that lots of people enjoyed into the right MMO. WOW did have an advantage, nothing came out to compete against it. It gave WOW the time it needed to improve and grow. SW has a chance now. WOW is stagnate and Kung-Fu panda's left a bad taste in many a mouth.

 

Add to this that Blizzard was very ambitious to have both hardcore gamers and everyday gamers, WOW became what it is. I have watched AOC fail so hard I lost hope for innovative MMOs, became disappointed when WAR's community gave up on it (it did have many issues and WOW had a good rebound to it), was disappointed with Aions linear Korean grind fee and hard ability to level with no story, felt lackluster when Rift didn't feel like it did anything but tried to force players to rift together..

 

Now here I am in SWTOR, a game I thought I would ignore. I didn't think would meet any muster, and I am having a blast. This game is sweet, it has potential, it has minor issues (maybe glaring to others), but this community has been so much better than others I have seen, BIOWare has been top notch on all the stories I have played through (namely the BH).

 

Here what I say. Let this game grow. It doesn't need LFD, LFR, or other such "necessities" that wow has right now. Bioware I think has done what no other developer has done, and gave an MMO a true story behind it characters.

 

I have never felt stagnate questing, never felt linear, never felt I couldn't find a group. This game is good. This game will get better. Enjoy it now so when we look back at it in 2-3 years we reminisce about "Remember when's...."

 

 

Peace out.

[Vlaxitov]

That is a fallacy. Just because a person isn't playing WoW, doesn't mean that WoW isn't successful.

 

 

.....and that is a false dichotomy so your entire statement is invalid.

 

 

Just because Justin Bieber is sucessful doesen't mean it works for me.

 

The purpose of this entire thread is panhandling for praise on the internets.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Vlaxitov

[Pyretta]

Ye people stop comparing this game to the most succesfull video game the world has ever seen which has ammassed millions of paying customers for the best part of the last decade, this game is nothing like it not meant to be never will be so if you don't like it bugger off an play a game that works and stop complaining here, because bioware couldn't possibly get it wrong the game is perfect in every sense, from the fantastic ui to the intuitive combat system and vast open world immersive zones this game rocks all. Anyone who thinks it should try and take a leaf out of the wow book is wrong if you play wow your a retard I mean seriously *** has blizzard and wow ever done that BW cannot emulate??? Owait..........

 

Chill out folks the game will be compared to WoW whether you like it or not and the sad truth is, no matter how hard it may be for WoW haters to swallow, WoW still delivers in areas that this title cannot hope to match never mind best...YET!

 

Heres hoping it improves but in it's current form it's a beta release at best. Even the sternsest FB will have to admit that when the player base starts dwindling and servers start merging.

 

 

Well you are comparing a game that has been out a little over a week to a game that has been out for ten years. So not a very valid comparison. WoW still sucks. Just because there are or have been a million subscribers does not necessarily mean the game is good. It could mean that a million people just don't know any better.

 

But in a ll seriousness I think we need to give Bioware some time to learn and develop the game further now that it has launched.

[Nafre]

Players like the author of this thread are the reason new MMOs can't be criticized without that player being attacked and ridiculed. The concept is so simple I really don't understand why you can't wrap your head around it. THINK OF ANY OTHER INVENTION OR PROGRESS AND FOLLOW ITS COMPETITORS. Cars are the perfect example. Do you think car companies would survive if they didn't steal the best features of each others cars and adapt them into their own designs? When the general public loves something about a car and that car is successful other car companies take that into consideration. It isn't because they're lame and they wanna cheat, and it doesn't make their product bad... on the contrary it gives the people what they want in a car.

 

We don't want this game to be exactly like WoW. If it were exactly like WoW I wouldn't play it. I wouldn't mind driving a lamborghini instead of a corvette, but I'd sure be confused if I jumped in the lamborghini and it didn't have a rear view mirror, a stereo, or a passenger seat.

[AkAseo]

I play both I raid regularly with my guild on wow and play this regularly I am not a fanboi of either title and see pros and cons in both but people are deluded if they think this game in it's current form is anywhere near a wow beater or even competitor.

 

And for every single one of you who is twitching to post "We don't care **** off back to wow and leave us alone" etc etc, then beleive me if every single player who is currently playing this but who still plays wow falls out of love with this and goes back to wow then you WILL be left with a couple hundred thousand subscribers on a handful of servers how much money do you think the ****hawks at EA are going to invest in future content updates etc for a small gp of hardcore nutcases???

 

In order to succedd this game MUST attract and keep paying wow subscribers that my friends is a simple and non negotiable fact, and unless they address some of the issues that these huge swathes of players are pointing out then look forward to f2play in a few months.

 

I don't like it anymore than you do but it is the simple truth.

[AkAseo]

Well you are comparing a game that has been out a little over a week to a game that has been out for ten years. So not a very valid comparison. WoW still sucks. Just because there are or have been a million subscribers does not necessarily mean the game is good. It could mean that a million people just don't know any better.

 

But in a ll seriousness I think we need to give Bioware some time to learn and develop the game further now that it has launched.

 

Even more reason for BW to get it right, another company has already made most of the mistakes for them, they have 10 years of Blizzard patch notes etc to review and see what made poeple happy and what didn't comparing this to wow at realease is delusional this is not 2004 with 2004 technology this is 2011 things have moved on, seriously your argument is like saying jaguars new car might not be as good as bmw's new one but **** me is it better than the one mercedes released 10 years ago it's a nul argument get a grip and listen to yourself lol.

[Tokkii]

Signed and Quoted for truth:)

 

^ this

[Horiizons]

You are correct it isn't WoW... However the key to success would be learning from another's example and building upon it. Take the good, ditch the bad, and make the good even better. Then add in some unique things and go from there.

 

With that being the truth I can absolutely see how people would ask to compare to something they are familiar with and want the features from said familiarity to move with them.

 

To me that isn't frustrating. To me the frustrating part is the "If you don't do this just like <Insert your favourite past MMO and believe me I've seen more I want SWG II then I want WoW in Space> then this game will fail and I'm outta here".

 

100% Agree with this. It's good to compare the two as WoW has a great formula. I know that not all people have come to TOR having played WoW, but ALOT have. We want this game to grow. But in order to do that you have to out-do the other competition.

 

The reason people always compare this to WoW is because Blizzard has been updating that game for the past 7+ years. They have had the time to perfect it, and in most aspects it is, the numbers show. Now if only we can bring those formulas over to TOR (Character abilities and game-play smoothness especially) we could be set up for a great future.

 

TLDR: Crack WoW's game engine and code while keeping the story/world/characters...profit!

[Tarka]

.....and that is a false dichotomy so your entire statement is invalid.

 

 

Just because Justin Bieber is sucessful doesen't mean it works for me.

 

The purpose of this entire thread is panhandling for praise on the internets.

 

Actually, if you read my posts, *I* am not the one who thinks that for one thing to be successful, then nothing else can.

 

However, claiming that something doesn't work in general, whilst it obviously DOES work, is therefore making an incorrect claim or twisting the definition of a word to mean something else, perhaps something more subjective to that persons needs / desires.

 

SWTOR can be successful at the same time as other MMO's can. Why? Because different products appeal to different audiences. Does that mean that those products MUST NOT include features that have been previously established as an expected standard? Certainly not. But it seems that others think that way.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka

[Ryzerion]

Y'all are some little...man I swear to God it doesn't take a WoW fanboy or mmo traditionalist to notice the big azz issue with this game.

[Avrose]

The two main complains I see are this:

 

- WoW players upset that many of their beloved features from that game aren't in SWTOR such as LFD, Macros and what not.

 

- MMO Traditionalist upset that this game is very solo heavy

 

considering I level up my social skills can execute mission faster and get more exp per hour with friends in party I call you on solo heavy.

 

This is not a solo heavy game it just runs good solo.

[DannyInternets]

Well you are comparing a game that has been out a little over a week to a game that has been out for ten years. So not a very valid comparison. WoW still sucks. Just because there are or have been a million subscribers does not necessarily mean the game is good. It could mean that a million people just don't know any better.

 

But in a ll seriousness I think we need to give Bioware some time to learn and develop the game further now that it has launched.

 

Right, because Bioware just coded this game from start to finish last week. They certainly didn't spend the last 5 years working on the game and learning from other successful MMOs. Surely it's just a coincidence that this game looks and plays whole lot like WoW.

Edited December 28, 2011 by DannyInternets

[Riodan]

You are correct it isn't WoW... However the key to success would be learning from another's example and building upon it. Take the good, ditch the bad, and make the good even better. Then add in some unique things and go from there.

 

With that being the truth I can absolutely see how people would ask to compare to something they are familiar with and want the features from said familiarity to move with them.

 

To me that isn't frustrating. To me the frustrating part is the "If you don't do this just like <Insert your favourite past MMO and believe me I've seen more I want SWG II then I want WoW in Space> then this game will fail and I'm outta here".

 

See, that's part of the industry's problem right now, I mean to some degree your right, learning from another's examples and building on it does help. However, just how many different ways can you make a popular feature unique to one game title before it just starts to look and feel ridiculous? I've seen dozens of skill systems, talent trees, mail systems, crafting systems, but at the end of the day, they are either too complex, not complex enough, or just simply exist with little to no real entertainment value whatsoever.

 

Truth be told, if this game was to start feeling like WoW in space, I'd probably leave myself. I left World of Warcraft for a reason, don't bring that nonsense over here. That doesn't mean you can't put in a few features that resemble stuff WoW has, quite a bit of what they have came from other MMOs anyways. Just make sure you implement it cleanly and without the WoW feel to it.. heh..

[DigitalDreamz]

How is a game with 10 million subscribers dying and becoming F2P? O.o

 

10 million subs at $15 a month ... is a lot of money. I'd kill, literally *********** destroy someone, for that kind of money.

 

Also, SWTOR lacking 'basic' MMO features isn't a good thing ... Nor should it be justified.

 

How can you justify the current 'lack' of basic features? I'd love to hear some proper answers.

 

Alright I'm sorry I have to pick on you, not trying to fight but have to clear some things up.

 

Your facts are off. The geography of WoWs playerbase is spread out. You see "10 million players" and automatically think it's all here in the U.S paying the same amount.

 

--A recent datamining shown WoW has roughly 2 million to 2.2 million in the U.S. Another 2 million or so in Europe and South America combined. The rest is spread out in Asia where they pay literally pennies to the dollar to play.

 

--WoW does create a sizeable revenue but Blizzard as a company employs hundreds of people, not to mention the taxes the corporation has to pay, projects such as Titan, Diablo 3 and MoP, server and bandwidth cost, etc etc. Their outlays are enormous.

 

--Yes WoW has a F2P model:

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/28/world-of-warcraft-goes-free-to-play-until-characters-hit-level-2/

 

--Lastly WoW is not the most successful MMO ever. The most successful MMO has 230 million accounts, asian farm MMO. They get 20+ million users A DAY!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Farm

 

--Another popular MMO in Asia peaked at 19 million:

 

http://pc.ign.com/articles/925/925099p1.html

 

--Aion in the U.S has about 1 million subscibers. In Asia they're climbing up close to 4 million. Not bad but according to WoW folk the game is dead, but as you can see with proof it's doing quite well for itself.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion:_The_Tower_of_Eternity

 

--They are all pay to play models.

 

 

As far as the MMO functionality I can only provide my anecdotal evidence:

 

--Going through starter area my Imperial Agent I had to group for:

 

"The man with the steel voice" ( 3 quests )

"Factory Recall" ( 3 quests )

 

--The starter planet Hutta there was a total of 100+ people at one time. People everywhere questing and planet chat was filled with the usual banter. After the group quests I finished up on Hutta and left the planet.

 

--Next I flew to the the Imperial Fleet. Again other players scattered throughout and general chat active. As a matter of fact I was doing some warzones where I met some really cool people and got a guild invite!

 

--Got the quest to do Black Talon, found three others to do Black Talon. Talked about either killing the captain or letting him live and killing the traitors ambassador. ( I elected for him to go to prison, my sith counterparts disagreed ).

 

--So I'm rather confused what you mean by "basic MMO features". I did group quests, flashpoints and warzones. Saw many people throughout each planet and chat was filled. So I'm unsure what you mean, it is very much an MMO to me.

Edited December 28, 2011 by DigitalDreamz

[Tarka]

See, that's part of the industry's problem right now, I mean to some degree your right, learning from another's examples and building on it does help. However, just how many different ways can you make a popular feature unique to one game title before it just starts to look and feel ridiculous? I've seen dozens of skill systems, talent trees, mail systems, crafting systems, but at the end of the day, they are either too complex, not complex enough, or just simply exist with little to no real entertainment value whatsoever.

 

Truth be told, if this game was to start feeling like WoW in space, I'd probably leave myself. I left World of Warcraft for a reason, don't bring that nonsense over here. That doesn't mean you can't put in a few features that resemble stuff WoW has, quite a bit of what they have came from other MMOs anyways. Just make sure you implement it cleanly and without the WoW feel to it.. heh..

 

Agreed. Which is why it is plain boneheaded to NOT actually take inspiration from elements in other MMO's, such an a functioning and user friendly GTN UI system.

 

I mean, who in their right mind thinks that it's better to force users to choose categories BEFORE they can do a name search?

[Pyretta]

Even more reason for BW to get it right, another company has already made most of the mistakes for them, they have 10 years of Blizzard patch notes etc to review and see what made poeple happy and what didn't comparing this to wow at realease is delusional this is not 2004 with 2004 technology this is 2011 things have moved on, seriously your argument is like saying jaguars new car might not be as good as bmw's new one but **** me is it better than the one mercedes released 10 years ago it's a nul argument get a grip and listen to yourself lol.

 

Perhaps, but sometimes people want to make mistakes for themselves. It could take them in a completely different direction then WoW went. As you said these are different times. This is a different game and we are all different players then we were back in '04.

[Pyretta]

Right, because Bioware just coded this game from start to finish last week. They certainly didn't spend the last 5 years working on the game and learning from other successful MMOs. Surely it's just a coincidence that this game looks and plays whole lot like WoW.

 

You can say that about nearly every MMO on the market. EQ2, Rift, AoC, LoTR... Ect.

 

They all pretty much act, look and feel the samish.

[Tarka]

--Yes WoW has a F2P model:

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/28/world-of-warcraft-goes-free-to-play-until-characters-hit-level-2/.

 

I think you need to differentiate between an "unlimited" (in terms of time) trial, and an MMO built on top of a F2P model.

 

Now, yes, players can indeed play to level 20 without paying a dime. But they cannot play beyond that for free. Therefore a major portion of the game is locked out from the player. So one could argue that WoW isn't actually running on an F2P model.

 

Fact is, WoW isn't running on an F2P business model. Blizzard have said that they have no intention of doing that (obviously whilst the income remains good).

Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka

[Cranberries]

-snip-

--So I'm rather confused what you mean by "basic MMO features". I did group quests, flashpoints and warzones. Saw many people throughout each planet and chat was filled. So I'm unsure what you mean, it is very much an MMO to me.

 

Combat logging

UI customisation

Smooth combat

 

3 things which are integral part and the technical skeleton of an MMOs gameplay. From these 3 you can do pretty much anything you like with the game and, to an extent, it will be good. You add in combat logging and make an impossible to beat boss, people will realises it's impossible (due to the logs proving it) and thus can report it.

[AkAseo]

Wow currently holds 72.3% market share of the PAYING mmo subscribers with the rest split up between all the other mmo's a lot of the subscribers to those are also wow subscribers so the numbers are a little fuzzy.

 

There are only so many mmo subscribers in the world, anyone who thinks that in order to succeed this game does not need to first attract and then most importantly retain a huge chunk of wow's market share is seriously deluded, all the **** off and go back to wow commenst are ridiculous, if everyone does that then this title is doomed from the start. I for one do not want this game to be wow I am heart sick of wow I been playing the same game for years and years I want a change I WANT this game to succeed but given the shoddy state of some elements of the game it is not delivering, doesn't matter if it's better than wow 1.0.1 that is not the competition the competition is wow in it's current form.

 

I will continue to play I like the game I just hopethey address some of the glaring issues or it will be pandas for me I'm afraid.

[flunkorg]

You are correct it isn't WoW... However the key to success would be learning from another's example and building upon it.

 

Just because WoW has a certain feature doesn't mean that said certain feature is actually any good.

Do you really think everything blizzard has added to WoW has only made it better?

Edited December 28, 2011 by flunkorg

[Baizak]

Not quite...see they want a specific version of WoW mainly either WoW Classic or TBC. This same roaming band of gamers goes from MMO to MMO all predicting doom and whining about the very same thing. Honestly I have seen some of the posters with the exact same names make the exact same post on the RIFT, DCUO, STO and AOC forums.

 

They will be here for a couple more weeks then like the Borg will move on to attempt to assimilate the next MMO.

 

Sad? Yes

Does it ever work? No so much anymore.

 

QFT. I have never seen it explained better. You summed it up quite nicely sir/mam Kudos.

[AkAseo]

Perhaps, but sometimes people want to make mistakes for themselves. It could take them in a completely different direction then WoW went. As you said these are different times. This is a different game and we are all different players then we were back in '04.

 

Which is an angle I both admire and respect as a Gamer, unfortunately my friend the shareholders and money men at EA will most definately NOT see it this way, if they don't get it right and get it right fast they will milk it dry and move on that is the EA way.

[Saltybill]

So far just about every complaint thread I've seen has been from WoW players complaining that SWTOR isn't more like WoW.

 

Get over it.

 

This is not meant to be WoW. If you can't handle that go back to WoW, find another game or make your own.

 

let me make one thing clear here... true it's not wow, but it's the next big (maybe) MMO and that directly competes with wow. people have limited time and money, so when it comes down to it, there will be a choice. also, many players came from wow, being that it is their first mmo experience, such as myself. so comparisons are not only inevitable, but also very valid when you think about it.

 

HOWEVER, people have different tastes and I think the biggest issue folks have is that it's a scifi and not fantasy... and some people have a hard time with that.

 

as for me... well, I've played wow for a LONG time, even did a webcomic about it for a while, but then I heard the call of the Empire and I'm a swtor convert thru and thru! so don't worry so much about people making comparisons, they just don't have anything else to compare it with, however what you need to do is nit pick their statements down to the nuts and bolts and try to get what it is they're wanting/complaining about... which will mostly end up with "it's scifi and not fantasy".

[mommabear]

I have just gone through several pages of posts, quotes, and responses. It started out as a smile, then progressively got worse and I giggled, laughed, snorted, and about fell out of my chair.

 

So what if someone compares games.

 

So what if they say AH (Auction House from WoW) or even goes so far as to call it a WW (Wentworth from City of X).

 

Does it really make your game play any less fun?

 

I have played (or still play): CoX, L2, Aion, and WoW.

I just started SWTOR last night.

 

The only real thing I can find that is ultimately the exact same thing within all of these games is the fact that their perspective forums will always have people griping about something so trivial that it will inevitably get others in an uproar and varying degrees of defensive when the topic at hand really is not that important...

 

...but I guess I needed to come in and check it out for myself to see just how similar the games really are.

 

Thanks for proving a point, OP.

 

Cya in game.

Edited December 28, 2011 by mommabear