Ops in 5.1 - Will unassembled pieces drop from every boss, or just the last boss?

[BenKatarn]

Hey folks,

 

There is some good conversation going on in this thread but I thought I would pop in and explain how it is currently planned to work in 5.1. The last boss of each Operation is guaranteed to drop unassembled pieces of a specific slot (we are still working out how many pieces drop). Each other boss in an Operation has an increasing chance (by boss) to drop any unassembled piece, not a specific slot. For the sake of the example I am about to make, I will use Karagga's Palace.

 

Everything listed below is an example and not necessarily what will be in-game, these are just representative of the way the system will work.

 

1st boss (Bonethrasher) - 20% chance to drop any unassembled piece.

2nd boss (Jarg and Sorno) - 25% chance to drop any unassembled piece.

3rd boss (Foreman Crusher) - 30% chance to drop any unassembled piece.

4th boss (Fabricator) - 35% chance to drop any unassembled piece.

Final boss (Jarg and Sorno) - 100% chance to drop unassembled head piece.

 

Hopefully that clears up any confusion!

 

-eric

 

No, Eric. No.

 

Why must you guys repeat the same mistakes over and over again? Back in 4.0 raiders openly wanted to flog you for Nightmare Mode Operations NOT dropping GUARANTEED 224 gear tokens. Now you're saying that in all Operations only the final boss will definately drop something, with all other bosses only having a CHANCE to drop something?

 

What is the point of this then? Especially if Operations continue to maintain a lockout timer.

 

What is so problematic about maintaining a clear-cut loot table, like we had before? If you really must add some stupid RNG element to Operations, how about a chance to drop an ADDITIONAL piece of gear?

 

Everything else is pointless and you guys really need to step up your game to keep your content (and to some extent, SWTOR itself) relevant to players if you can't manage to develop new content in a reasonable amount of time.

Edited December 21, 2016 by BenKatarn

[KWONRYU]

Yup, I can already see the ninja looting going on. I mean people will form HM runs and the leader will always ninja loot it. Will be a massacre with people giving up on it in the end.

 

People will agree on Free for All, but always a few seconds before boss dies, leader changes to master looter and takes the gear. They really didnt learn from Priority Ops.

 

A change to the system so that you cannot change Loot-settings during combat, and Master Looter cannot change mid-fight during final Op-Boss.

[DarthZaul]

The problem with this system is it makes unassembled tokens too rare and valuable. People will scam, ninja and backstab each other to get them. In 4.0 the paranoia about ninjas was massively disproportionate to the actual amount of ninjas, until people started using methods to protect against ninjas (holding loot rolls till the end) to actually ninja themselves. Also a problem in 4.0 was raid groups had a few regular members and a revolving door of randoms who would play the game for a few weeks then quit, and if these people won tokens they were a complete waste of gear that committed raiders needed. With tokens being so rare, they will be an even bigger waste if some random casual you are never going to see again wins it, but unless you have loot council in the guild, technically he does have equal right to win it.

 

This system could be a disaster unless either every boss drops tokens, or token drops use the Personal Loot system from WoW.

Why can't you just have guaranteed drops, and if you really must slow gearing down then you can set the command token cost a bit higher.

 

"Do NOT add Unassembled Gear tokens back. Make each Ops Boss drop Unassembled Components instead, like in planned PVP changes."

 

Actually that would work too, as long as harder ops drops more components or you would just get EV/KP farming again.

Edited December 21, 2016 by DarthZaul

[Ardarell_Solo]

As pretty much everyone says: Make it guaranteed drops for the first bosses, get rid of those percentages.

 

Otherwise:

 

1. You need to be lucky for the boss to drop a token at all

2. You need to be lucky it's a slot you actually need

3. You need to win the roll for the item in your group

 

Since the end chance is minimal with three steps of RNG that accumulate, your chance of actually getting an item you need from an ops boss that is not a final boss would be near zero.

 

Like this it will not make OPs as the hardest content that requires most preparation, coordination and social skills the most rewarding activity in the game like you said it should be according to your principles of the Command System.

 

If you eliminate 1. from the list above, it's still pretty hard to gear up, since the old system didn't have 2. in it. 3. alone could still drive you nuts, though, if the odds weren't in your favour.

 

1. + 2. + 3. will be one thing only: highly frustrating.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Ardarell_Solo

[merovejec]

A change to the system so that you cannot change Loot-settings during combat, and Master Looter cannot change mid-fight during final Op-Boss.

 

They would have to care or think to implement that.

[merovejec]

Operations continue to maintain a lockout timer.

 

This is the thing you have to be lucky for the gear piece to drop (up to last boss), has to be something you miss, have to win the roll and if not, you are screwed as you are locked out of the ops and its over.

 

Sure you can use alts, but those may not be geared, I mean we arent talking about SM operations which will drop 230 stuff, but HMs even NiMs, you cant pug NiMs, maybe HMs but again we face the problem of lockout, so in the end at the end of the week we will be there wil lockouts on all your geared toons, hours and hours spent and no gear received due to RNG and bad rolls.

 

Its just sad what stupid things they can come up with.

[mad_freeman]

 

 

Final boss (Jarg and Sorno) - 100% chance to drop unassembled head piece.

 

 

 

you still wonderng if devs know what they do with game, think better

[Kazyon]

Add me to the list of people baffled by the thought process here.

 

"Hmm, they really don't like the random gearing. Let's fix it by adding more random gearing!"

 

:rak_02:

[Soljin]

The changes are not even close to acceptable. Remove RnG from Gearing...Is it that difficult to understand?

 

Dump the Unassembled gear piece concept, Leave the Guaranteed tokens in boxes and add a surplus of the same tokens to bosses in Operations and FPs enough to account for a piece of gear (All bosses). Raids can choose to either distribute the tokens evenly or give them all to a specific player to gear them up quickly.

 

By your own words we don't need another currency, Especially a currency that holds the RnG gate in place.

 

Bioware, we are here because you didn't listen, now you are saying you are listening...and then you prove via proposed remedies you are not in fact listening.

 

 

The question is simple...Is Bioware so desperate to add a ridiculous RnG grind to this game to increase subscription retention that they will risk tanking the game? Right now it appears they are because they are clinging to RnG like a dog to a bone...

 

I Really, Really want this game to succeed.. I would like nothing more than to be excited to log in and play every day because I want a decent Star Wars MMORPG. So because of this IP I am on your side! Why are you not on mine?

Edited December 21, 2016 by Soljin

[TUXs]

That's brilliant Eric.

 

You guys are offsetting the outcry against RNG by adding another layer of RNG.

 

Well played.

No kidding...the level of disconnect is unbelievable.

[Sargrith]

No kidding...the level of disconnect is unbelievable.

 

It would be funny if it wasn't harming the game we all love so much.

[EricMusco]

Quick question, which Op is this? I don't ever recall running one with repeating bosses in the same Op. Perhaps you meant:

 

Final boss (Karraga) - 100% chance to drop unassembled head piece

 

and not

 

Final boss (Jarg and Sorno) - 100% chance to drop unassembled head piece

 

Jarg and Sorno staged a military coup and now run Karagga's Palace! I'm kidding, of course.

 

It was a copy/paste error on my part when I was making the bullets. Thank you for catching the error, I have corrected it.

 

-eric

[gabigool]

Jarg and Sorno staged a military coup and now run Karagga's Palace! I'm kidding, of course.

 

It was a copy/paste error on my part when I was making the bullets. Thank you for catching the error, I have corrected it.

 

-eric

 

Phew.

[TUXs]

It would be funny if it wasn't harming the game we all love so much.

It really is...and this time, people are leaving for good. They aren't waiting for January and they don't care what promises are made then...they've reached their tipping point and they're moving on. There's something different this time...people are sick of being played, and I can't blame them...too many empty promises.

[Divona]

 

1st boss (Bonethrasher) - 20% chance to drop any unassembled piece.

2nd boss (Jarg and Sorno) - 25% chance to drop any unassembled piece.

3rd boss (Foreman Crusher) - 30% chance to drop any unassembled piece.

4th boss (Fabricator) - 35% chance to drop any unassembled piece.

Final boss (Karagga) - 100% chance to drop unassembled head piece.

 

Hopefully that clears up any confusion!

 

-eric

 

Thanks for this post.

 

So lets take community version of this.

 

You work for Bioware. You do some work daily and each day you participate work related activity so you have following outcome as rewards:

 

There are rank for each title depending how long you have worked at Bioware.

 

1st reward (apprentice) - 20% chance to get salary for your work on that day

2nd reward (knight) - 25% chance to get salary for your work on that day

3rd reward (elite) - 30% chance to get salary for your work on that day

4th reward (master) - 35% chance to get salary for your work on that day

Final reward (grand master) - 100% chance or guaranteed to get full salary and possibly a bonus for your work on that day.

 

Ranks are determined how long you have worked in company. So the longer you have worked for Bioware the higher rank you are and better chances for salary.

 

Think its very nice and motivative system to push forward!

Edited December 21, 2016 by Divona

[Sargrith]

It really is...and this time, people are leaving for good. They aren't waiting for January and they don't care what promises are made then...they've reached their tipping point and they're moving on. There's something different this time...people are sick of being played, and I can't blame them...too many empty promises.

 

I know and its why this needs to be dealt with right away. I only see as an option to really prove they are listiening a complete removal of relying on the galactic crate system for gear. For now back to 4.0 while far from perfect it is far better then this mess. I don't want to loose any more guildies and in game friends over their version of listening and humility.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Oh ****! I thought ALL bosses were gonna drop an unassembled piece at random and just the last boss was a guaranteed type of drop (helm, gauntlets, etc). The news isn't as good as I understood sadly. Edited December 21, 2016 by ZETA_SCORPII

[Soljin]

Jarg and Sorno staged a military coup and now run Karagga's Palace! I'm kidding, of course.

 

It was a copy/paste error on my part when I was making the bullets. Thank you for catching the error, I have corrected it.

 

-eric

 

Eric,

 

If the Unassembled gear pieces/Component (AKA re-skinned RnG model) goes live this game will continue to decline in subscriptions.

 

What we need is One gear currency (a single token type) that is acquirable from PvP participation, Operations bosses and participation and also Galactic Command crates. This currency needs to be legacy bound and each tier of gear will require increased amounts of the (single gear currency token).

 

The additional layer being proposed (Unassembled gear pieces/Components) serves only to maintain RnG and gear gating while also increasing the potential for Ninja type loot practices.

 

Since RnG is the reason for recent public outcries I am confident that an additional layer of RnG (Unassembled gear pieces/Components) is/are not the answer.

[Arthuriuan]

Oh ****! I thought ALL bosses were gonna drop an unassembled piece at random and just the last boss was a guaranteed type of drop (helm, gauntlets, etc). The news isn't as good as I understood sadly.

 

Well, you know BioWare and their love of lame RNG rules. Now, roll 3d6 for initiative....

 

aww, you rolled less than 12...no loot for you!

[benzodiazepine]

Jarg and Sorno staged a military coup and now run Karagga's Palace!

 

Look guys, new content relevant to ops!

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Well, you know BioWare and their love of lame RNG rules. Now, roll 3d6 for initiative....

 

aww, you rolled less than 12...no loot for you!

 

[lokimogor]

For all you doom sayers, please explain why my guild roster has exploded by 30+ subs. I'm not in a large guild, we don't want to be a large guild, but we've always recruited fun folks and theres a lot more of them out there. We are not seeing a decline in our guild at all, we've had folks come back from 2 year hiatuses. The general conclusion is folks seem to be angry about not being able to ravager glitch their way into full gear within 2 weeks

[TUXs]

For all you doom sayers, please explain why my guild roster has exploded by 30+ subs. I'm not in a large guild, we don't want to be a large guild, but we've always recruited fun folks and theres a lot more of them out there. We are not seeing a decline in our guild at all, we've had folks come back from 2 year hiatuses. The general conclusion is folks seem to be angry about not being able to ravager glitch their way into full gear within 2 weeks

You're very fortunate. What server and what guild is that exactly?

 

And how did you glitch Ravager gear in 2-weeks exactly? It was chest only.

[Divona]

For all you doom sayers, please explain why my guild roster has exploded by 30+ subs. I'm not in a large guild, we don't want to be a large guild, but we've always recruited fun folks and theres a lot more of them out there. We are not seeing a decline in our guild at all, we've had folks come back from 2 year hiatuses. The general conclusion is folks seem to be angry about not being able to ravager glitch their way into full gear within 2 weeks

 

There are different groups of people playing this game. No one with common sense would say doom this or that.

Those who have taken big breaks from this game can enjoy doing those story missions and few new FP's. No no opses past 2 years so nothing new on this part.

If returning players are happy to pay subscription for most part solo and story gameplay then they are welcome to do so. Those who have played this game since launch and wanted to endgame or even new bigger group content didnt get this. Instead they got random gearing even at endgame if they would want to try hardest modes again.

 

Are the new returning players big spenders also buying CM stuff? I doubt that. But if players are happy with current gearing and running same content over and over again then Bioware has done excellent job using old graphics engine and content with just new gear rating and rng. Smart business man is not that who invests a lot for new stuff but that man who recycles old things to make more profit than investing more into new stuff.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Divona

[lokimogor]

You're very fortunate. What server and what guild is that exactly?

 

And how did you glitch Ravager gear in 2-weeks exactly? It was chest only.

 

Harbinger and I'm not giving out my guild info here. Seems bit pervy of you. The fact is the forum dwellers those who post routinely are the most negative of a games population.