.. and the award for Worst MMO Business Model in 2016 goes to ...

[MadCuzBad]

yup swtor star trek gw2 aion and more are no match for LOL dota 2 overwatch WOW and more

 

we don't even come close also easy to see ad twitch

 

 

League of Legends

87,833

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic

256

 

so yea our game is not that populair

 

That's his exact point. The word Star Wars and unpopular generally don't go together. But somehow bioware made that happen.

Edited December 23, 2016 by MadCuzBad

[merovejec]

This thread is just hilarious, every time i see it, it makes me laugh, how stupid can Bioware be?

[MadCuzBad]

This thread is just hilarious, every time i see it, it makes me laugh, how stupid can Bioware be?

 

Have you played 5.0 yet?

[MadCuzBad]

I was Christmas shopping yesterday and went to game stop and game craze two of the biggest game stores in my area. Just for the heck of it I wanted to see what games you could get gift cards for. They literally had about 50 games. Even games like EVE online had them. But in both stores absolutely nothing for SWTOR. Its as if SWTOR doesn't exists. The saddest part of this is when I went to the second store and after looking everywhere in the store for anything SWTOR related and failed I ask the clerk. I said do you have anything like gift cards or anything at all for SWTOR? And the kid looked at me and said "that game is still up and running? I thought that game was closed down." That coming from a game store that is selling gift cards for even games like EVE online.

 

Sad days ahead for SWTOR and sad days are here. How did bioware accomplish ruining this game so badly? What is wrong with you people when a game like EVE has more attention given to it than this Star Wars titled game? And what makes this worse is that Star Wars just had a major movie release a week ago. Shame on you bioware. You should be embarrassed!

[idnewton]

Two things. First, I think it's very important that more people understand that, as the OP put it, this is an award. People are touting this information as fact, when it is really just one site's opinion. And secondly, in my opinion, the MMO with the worst business model should be the one bringing in the least money. That hardly seems debatable. Regardless of whether a model is liked, it can hardly be considered 'bad' if it works, no?

[MadCuzBad]

Two things. First, I think it's very important that more people understand that, as the OP put it, this is an award. People are touting this information as fact, when it is really just one site's opinion. And secondly, in my opinion, the MMO with the worst business model should be the one bringing in the least money. That hardly seems debatable. Regardless of whether a model is liked, it can hardly be considered 'bad' if it works, no?

 

de·ni·al noun /di- ˈ nī(-ə)l, dē-/

 

Definition of DENIAL

 

1 : a psychological defense mechanism in which

confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality

 

2 : refusal to admit the truth or reality

 

3 : refusing to admit the truth or reality of something unpleasant

[idnewton]

de·ni·al noun /di- ˈ nī(-ə)l, dē-/

 

Definition of DENIAL

 

1 : a psychological defense mechanism in which

confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality

 

2 : refusal to admit the truth or reality

 

3 : refusing to admit the truth or reality of something unpleasant

You really seem like the type for open-minded discussion. Edited December 23, 2016 by idnewton

[Tsillah]

You really seem like the type for open-minded discussion.

 

He is. He opens his mind to everybody.

[ivanhedgehog]

Two things. First, I think it's very important that more people understand that, as the OP put it, this is an award. People are touting this information as fact, when it is really just one site's opinion. And secondly, in my opinion, the MMO with the worst business model should be the one bringing in the least money. That hardly seems debatable. Regardless of whether a model is liked, it can hardly be considered 'bad' if it works, no?

 

As a former business owner? any model that drives customers away is a bad one. Is this model bringing in more money with less customers? I find it unlikely.

[MadCuzBad]

As a former business owner? any model that drives customers away is a bad one. Is this model bringing in more money with less customers? I find it unlikely.

 

Its unfortunate that you even have to say what you just said. But unfortunately there is a segment of the forum community that seems a little challenged in the 1 plus 1 equals 2 scenario. But yes, water is H2O and the statement you made is absolutely spot on. But the denial of some is so thick that they are actually challenging whether or not H2O is really actually water or not. They think it might not be. They need proof for you claiming H2O really is what you say it is. Amazing!

[Jamtas]

Two things. First, I think it's very important that more people understand that, as the OP put it, this is an award. People are touting this information as fact, when it is really just one site's opinion. And secondly, in my opinion, the MMO with the worst business model should be the one bringing in the least money. That hardly seems debatable. Regardless of whether a model is liked, it can hardly be considered 'bad' if it works, no?

 

It is also the opinion of a site that BW chose to lead off the quotes for it's accolades trailer. Surely it can't be that fringe of a site in this genre if they included it as one of 3 reviews. And if it is a fringe/poor review site, then what does it say about this game that they had to use the snippet praise quote on the story from a site who just blasted them vs another publication of higher status?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

yup swtor star trek gw2 aion and more are no match for LOL dota 2 overwatch WOW and more

 

we don't even come close also easy to see ad twitch

 

 

League of Legends

87,833

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic

256

 

so yea our game is not that populair

 

Perhaps I misunderstood but I thought the implication that the Star wars IP was less popular.

If the reference is to this game in particular then the statement that was made needs to be tidied up as I wouldn't disagree so much then but the entire Star Wars IP? It's arguably one of, if not the biggest in the world.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Two things. First, I think it's very important that more people understand that, as the OP put it, this is an award. People are touting this information as fact, when it is really just one site's opinion. And secondly, in my opinion, the MMO with the worst business model should be the one bringing in the least money. That hardly seems debatable. Regardless of whether a model is liked, it can hardly be considered 'bad' if it works, no?

 

The problem is we don't know what MMOs make the most profit. We get an arguable concept of revenue from the likes of superdata but without anyone so far "subbed" to their data able to sense check the list they put up I personally don't trust it ( i.e. where do the likes of FF14 and ESO rank - do all companies report data to superdata to make it accurat rankings etc. ).

 

You are right in that it is indeed a website based on opinion but this negative attitude towards this game is becoming ( if not already has become ) popular opinion instead of just a "screaming minority" as some would point out.

 

I don't buy the minority argument anymore either because when pushed those that make it cannot offer up anything of consequence to show that this is the case and in reality the majority of players are actually happy with 5.0 and the business model BWA has adopted.

 

Also within the bounds of this topic I pointed out a few other points I thought were part of the bad business model of 2016 for this game so it's not all about the award and "F2P" which got a lot of focus on that site.

 

I guess lastly in terms of statistics we know player numbers took a huge dive around February and they never really recovered. EA's only really mention of SWToR this financial year was to say it's the major contributor of a 1 million reduction in subscription revenue. Those alone for me point towards a fairly failed business model ( imo of course, I don't know where they set their targets ) for this year especially when compared to other years.

[Jinook_Phi]

It amazes me how many people have commented on this thread without (obviously) even bothering to read the linked post. Which means you're not so much interested in engaging in dialog per what the OP originally posted, as you are spouting off random stuff and/or hearing your own voice.

 

The linked article zeroes specifically in on MMOs that exploit player bases (the worst). I'm a long time MMO dude, was in early BETA for this and Galaxies, as well as other non-SW licenses. SWTOR is by far the most broken, exploitive MMO Ive ever played. But what other options do I have for a SW MMO? None. And they know this.

 

Although the article does not go into measuring "brand equity", it should, because thats where SWTOR gets hurt the most by their actions. The company culture, the people they choose to employ, have always had a "play the game we want you to play" mentality. And I have never, NOT ONCE in five years, gotten good customer service. Its never once happened. For awhile there, I was on EA's site and they solved some TOR problems. Again, all this impacts the "brand" of TOR and thus their business model.

 

But back to the linked articel. I wrote a long post on this, blasting them for all the same reasons in Jan of 2016: https://moviepilot.com/posts/3737329

 

There are a lot of really good things about the game, but the bad massively outweighs the good. So I "visit" the game every now and then, to enjoy the experience, then Im gone for long periods of time.

 

I really hope Disney wakes the heck up and intervenes, because this does not help their brand, either.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Jinook_Phi

[Aeristash]

Yet if it weren't for F2P attracting players in the first place when the game was on it's way out shortly after launch you wouldn't be here spouting this vitriol.

 

There is no counter you have produced to show how this game didn't have one of the worst business models of 2016.

 

This game has a beautiful business model. They've gotten rid of passes and locked end game gear, operations, warzones & artifacts beyond a paywall as well as developed a grind system with a pay to progress quicker system to boot. They have taken a step back from catering to the freeloaders and restructured their entire model around their subscription base. Their money makers. If people want to enjoy the game to the fullest, they need to keep putting money in the developers pockets so they can keep providing the game to that same extent. This is an excellent money making model to make the game more self sustainable and bring in the profit. The only people this business model is bad for is the people who didn't want to pay in the first place. But the freeloaders don't matter, so it's all good. Bioware shouldn't have been overextending itself trying to provide for moochers anyway. That's money leaving their pocket, not coming in.

[Jamtas]

This game has a beautiful business model. They've gotten rid of passes and locked end game gear, operations, warzones & artifacts beyond a paywall as well as developed a grind system with a pay to progress quicker system to boot. They have taken a step back from catering to the freeloaders and restructured their entire model around their subscription base. Their money makers. If people want to enjoy the game to the fullest, they need to keep putting money in the developers pockets so they can keep providing the game to that same extent. This is an excellent money making model to make the game more self sustainable and bring in the profit. The only people this business model is bad for is the people who didn't want to pay in the first place. But the freeloaders don't matter, so it's all good. Bioware shouldn't have been overextending itself trying to provide for moochers anyway. That's money leaving their pocket, not coming in.

 

I've been a paying subscriber without lapse since Beta. I am no set to no longer be a subscriber as of Jan 2nd. I would say from my perspective, this new business model and system is not an improvement to the game. And I'll predict that within a few months, there will be GC passes to open up end game to preferred once again as they will need additional revenue to replace those leaving.

[MadCuzBad]

But the freeloaders don't matter, so it's all good. Bioware shouldn't have been overextending itself trying to provide for moochers anyway. That's money leaving their pocket, not coming in.

 

What rock have you been under? These are not F2P people on the forums and in the major guilds quitting this game by the bus load. Those are people who pay a subscription to this game. Some of which have been subbing for 5 years that are quitting. What planet are you living on anyways?

 

F2P people cant even post on these forums and your running around screaming and yelling about freeloaders? Good gosh man are you trolling or are you really that clueless? Absolutely and totally amazing. I hope your a troll because if your not I really truly feel bad for you.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This game has a beautiful business model. They've gotten rid of passes

 

Cutting off a revenue stream is a "beautiful business model"? Ok heh, if you say so, let's continue.

 

 

and locked end game gear, operations, warzones & artifacts beyond a paywall as well as developed a grind system with a pay to progress quicker system to boot.

 

Which would have been a decent idea had they not alienated so much of their customer base in the first place with a lack of new content for those game types and also the mess that GC gearing is to the majority of players.

 

Thus the net result is even less people for those that do sub to play the group content with. I can't speak for anyone else but myself on this but I play on harbinger in the apac primetime timezone and here we are ~4 weeks into the expansion and the only thing I can get to pop is uprisings. Rarely now do I EVER see LFG for operations and yes that's been bad all year but it's actually managed to get worse. Usually on the back of an expansion the group content is easier to join due to more people around doing it but not this time.

 

Thus that is my experience and from that ( and there are factors like the GC and just being utterly disillusioned by the madness that is "Ben Irvings visions of the game" ) I choose to not re-sub and thus fheir business model has failed to retain my subscription. Will there business model replace my sub with someone else who wouldn't have subbed if we didn't get these changes you mention above? I highly doubt it and there are no statistics showing a growing population ( plenty to show a declining though ) so I don't see any success from the direction you are lauding.

 

 

They have taken a step back from catering to the freeloaders and restructured their entire model around their subscription base. Their money makers. If people want to enjoy the game to the fullest, they need to keep putting money in the developers pockets so they can keep providing the game to that same extent

.

 

This isn't a business we are investing in. It's a *********** game. I can't believe people keep spouting this nonsense like it's going to keep the game afloat.

If people have fun in the game they are likely to want to pay for it, if they don't then they won't. It's really that simple.

This whole "keep paying anyway, support the developers because its swtor so they can hopefully make content you want" is ludicrous ... who keeps paying for something even though they may no longer be enjoying it?

 

This is an excellent money making model to make the game more self sustainable and bring in the profit. The only people this business model is bad for is the people who didn't want to pay in the first place. But the freeloaders don't matter, so it's all good. Bioware shouldn't have been overextending itself trying to provide for moochers anyway. That's money leaving their pocket, not coming in.

 

You haven't actually justified that argument what so ever. People have to pay to do end content so therefore it's a great business model? Sorry that doesn't wash and if they continue to bleed players and subs it proves it's a bloody stupid business model.

 

Funnily enough the majority of this thread at least and the link in question state the business model BWA follow is indeed a poor one. In this thread these are paying customers so wouldn't it stand to reason that if the people paying you money don't agree with your business model and are likely to stop paying you money then you should probably revise said business model?

[Tsillah]

Cutting off a revenue stream is a "beautiful business model"? Ok heh, if you say so, let's continue.

 

You know, it may seem like a weird thing to say, but I really am just hoping this guy is a troll.

[ivanhedgehog]

This game has a beautiful business model. They've gotten rid of passes and locked end game gear, operations, warzones & artifacts beyond a paywall as well as developed a grind system with a pay to progress quicker system to boot. They have taken a step back from catering to the freeloaders and restructured their entire model around their subscription base. Their money makers. If people want to enjoy the game to the fullest, they need to keep putting money in the developers pockets so they can keep providing the game to that same extent. This is an excellent money making model to make the game more self sustainable and bring in the profit. The only people this business model is bad for is the people who didn't want to pay in the first place. But the freeloaders don't matter, so it's all good. Bioware shouldn't have been overextending itself trying to provide for moochers anyway. That's money leaving their pocket, not coming in.

 

Bioware has been the freeloaders, not putting out content and riding on the subscribers backs. that seems to be ending as the paying public seems to be unwilling to pay for a no new content mmo.

[Darkside]

Bioware has been the freeloaders, not putting out content and riding on the subscribers backs. that seems to be ending as the paying public seems to be unwilling to pay for a no new content mmo.

 

I hate to say it, cause I truly want this game to succeed, but I hope the subscriber loss finally reaches a critical mass, so as to force Bioware to change. I know it might be asking for a lot, but they really need to see what they are doing is not okay, and that it is solely the Star Wars ip that is keeping them afloat. It has made them incredibly lazy and condescending to the player base.

[Aeristash]

Cutting off a revenue stream is a "beautiful business model"? Ok heh, if you say so, let's continue.

 

Not cutting off, shoring up. The passes were a sub deterrent since pref and f2p could simply buy them through a third party on the gtm if they wanted to experience the content or simply settle for their weekly allotment. Subs didn't even have to purchase them since they could just use their monthly allowance to purchase them for next to nothing. Now that all of that is behind a pay gate, those players are now forced to sub for the whole enchilada, ensuring no middle men cut into profits as well as a profit increase.

 

 

 

 

Which would have been a decent idea had they not alienated so much of their customer base in the first place with a lack of new content for those game types and also the mess that GC gearing is to the majority of players.

 

Thus the net result is even less people for those that do sub to play the group content with. I can't speak for anyone else but myself on this but I play on harbinger in the apac primetime timezone and here we are ~4 weeks into the expansion and the only thing I can get to pop is uprisings. Rarely now do I EVER see LFG for operations and yes that's been bad all year but it's actually managed to get worse. Usually on the back of an expansion the group content is easier to join due to more people around doing it but not this time.

 

Group content has been in an unhealthy state for years, but that's less Bioware's fault and more the players. The reason they introduced a story mode and made 4+ heroics soloable was because people were complaining they wanted to do the content solo without dealing with the rushing/Spacebar!! squealing/gearing requirements/negativity of other players. The community asked for more personal space, bioware provided and then they got bipolar that they had no more reason to group like they wanted in the first place. Before that, flashpoints, ops, warzones and gsf were popping near without pause. Especially Kuat drive yards.

 

Thus that is my experience and from that ( and there are factors like the GC and just being utterly disillusioned by the madness that is "Ben Irvings visions of the game" ) I choose to not re-sub and thus fheir business model has failed to retain my subscription. Will there business model replace my sub with someone else who wouldn't have subbed if we didn't get these changes you mention above? I highly doubt it and there are no statistics showing a growing population ( plenty to show a declining though ) so I don't see any success from the direction you are lauding.

 

Give it time. It hasn't been yet a month since these new changes were introduced. When people get hungry enough to scratch that star wars itch or play gated content, they'll pay. And that's the beauty of it.

 

 

 

 

This isn't a business we are investing in. It's a *********** game. I can't believe people keep spouting this nonsense like it's going to keep the game afloat.

If people have fun in the game they are likely to want to pay for it, if they don't then they won't. It's really that simple.

This whole "keep paying anyway, support the developers because its swtor so they can hopefully make content you want" is ludicrous ... who keeps paying for something even though they may no longer be enjoying it?

 

No, it's a business. EA didn't pour over 1 million dollars into this game just to make people happy. They invested in this project because the Star wars IP is a cash cow and they figured they were going to get a good portion of that sweet milk. From the consumers point of view, it's about being entertained but from the boardrooms point of view it's about making that do-re-mi. They make an entertaining game, people throw money at them to participate in that entertainment and they further enhance upon their initial design with more content . That is the business. the more money they get, the more content they can provide, the better the game gets, rinse & repeat.

 

 

 

You haven't actually justified that argument what so ever. People have to pay to do end content so therefore it's a great business model? Sorry that doesn't wash and if they continue to bleed players and subs it proves it's a bloody stupid business model.

 

Funnily enough the majority of this thread at least and the link in question state the business model BWA follow is indeed a poor one. In this thread these are paying customers so wouldn't it stand to reason that if the people paying you money don't agree with your business model and are likely to stop paying you money then you should probably revise said business model?

 

Of course they have to pay. Why wouldn't they? That content wasn't made on nunnery donations and well wishes. That content was made with the money their subscribers provided to validate their time in making that content. There are no free meals. You want to eat at the table, put your money down and pay for your plate.They're lucky that they get to do any content without paying. As for any revisions-- well they know their metrics. The forum is a vocal percentage of the player population but hardly the majority.

[Jamtas]

snip

 

But you can't all of the sudden introduce that pay gate for end game content with 2+ year old content. Release a new operation and then go this method- that would have been a smart business move.

And uprisings are not the repeatable end game content to keep people subscribed. (Nor do they require a sub to play once you've unlocked KOTET through one month of sub.) Getting gear is the only reason to subscribe now. And getting new gear to do 2+ year old content through a $15 monthly subscription is going to be a failing endeavor. Releasing more uprisings (story version of a planet side quest) and giving adds/bosses more health to replay same KOTFE/KOTET story chapters is again, not new.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Jamtas

[Aeristash]

But you can't all of the sudden introduce that pay gate for end game content with 2+ year old content. Release a new operation and then go this method- that would have been a smart business move.

And uprisings are not the repeatable end game content to keep people subscribed. (Nor do they require a sub to play once you've unlocked KOTET through one month of sub.) Getting gear is the only reason to subscribe now. And getting new gear to do 2+ year old content through a $15 monthly subscription is going to be a failing endeavor. Releasing more uprisings (story version of a planet side quest) and giving adds/bosses more health to replay same KOTFE/KOTET story chapters is again, not new.

 

I don't disagree at all that it's rather late in the game to be doing this but at the same time I do think there should've been and should be and should always be a pay gate there. The game has needed money for a long time and if people can get content without paying a dime for it, they won't. If they can avoid the sub to get into operations and warzones by just grinding for in-game credits without having to lighten their wallet, they will. Bioware seems to be seeing now that if they want to make the game more profitable and self sufficient, they're going to have to herd their consumers into pay gates. Otherwise they'll keep running at a loss. It's practices like this why low quality games like PW and MU have stayed in the money for over a decade with massive consumer bases. I'm not saying SWTOR should make someone pay near 5000$ for the best armor in game like PW but gating the best gear behind a sub is a step in the right direction.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Aeristash

[ekwalizer]

I hate to say it, cause I truly want this game to succeed, but I hope the subscriber loss finally reaches a critical mass, so as to force Bioware to change. I know it might be asking for a lot, but they really need to see what they are doing is not okay, and that it is solely the Star Wars ip that is keeping them afloat. It has made them incredibly lazy and condescending to the player base.

 

The critical mass loss of the SWG community didn't convince SOE to undo the NGE. I have seen little from Bioware/EA to suggest they will recognize their error either. Remember, to them, *we* are the problem for not wanting to play the game they way they want us to play it.