Devs You MESSED up this MMO even MORE with TOKEN SYSTEM!

[Christie_Swift]

What you proposed in twitch on 12.15 was confusing and CONVOLUTED.

 

Why add more GRIND to a system that is already grindy? Why solo players or casuals have to adjust to those who only do OPS/PvPs? This is ridiculous in choosing one play style over the other.

 

We ALL hate RNG but the solution is NOT to add more grind to it. For same goal now you would have to work 2X as much? or be still stuck with RNG? Dont you think this is fair for your playerbase and you will definitely alienate some (solo players, casuals, OPs/PvP players). Why do you make such an imperfect system that put an odds players against each other?

 

Best solution is just either roll back completely to before 5.0 and admit your screw up or bring Unassembled Gear drops from anything NOT just OPS/PvP.

[HelinCarnate]

You really have no idea what you are talking about. You still have the same grind with 5.0 but soon you will also be able to get additional gear with pvp vendors and by doing ops. That is LESS of a grind. It may not be perfect or what we wanted but it is a step in the right direction.

[LordTurin]

Yup. Solo players get to keep doing exactly what they've been doing, which for them is an improvement over 4.0, as in 4.0 they had no way of getting top tier gear. Raiders and pvpers though will now at least be able to plan on what pieces they need, and can work as a group to get them.

[StarkHelsing]

The amount of people screaming now are those who don't seem to understand this new update at all. ¬_¬ How does an update that offers less grind, mess it up more?

 

I'll say it again. It's like the people here haven't actually played a MMO before. SWTOR 4.0 Gearing was easy, it was taking candy from a baby - easy. Now people have to actually put 'effort' into gearing folks are devolving into angry gremlins.

 

This system does not NEED rolling back. Adapt, plan ahead, put effort in or just scream more.

Edited December 16, 2016 by StarkHelsing

[Tsillah]

Nothing changes for solo players with these changes. Absolutely nothing.

[Ryenke]

The amount of people screaming now are those who don't seem to understand this new update at all. ¬_¬ How does an update that offers less grind, mess it up more?

 

This system does not NEED rolling back. Adapt, plan ahead, put effort in or just scream more.

 

It doesn't offer less grind for PVE. Same grind unless you have a dedicated op group to farm the last boss.

 

As for "Adapt, plan ahead..." I couldn't agree more. I adapted. I unsubbed. lol, don't really think that was what BW was looking for in the new system tho.

[Nmyownworld]

Nothing changes for solo players with these changes. Absolutely nothing.

^This. Every playstyle still needs to grind out CXP. Solo players grind for Command crates. PvPers and Raiders grind for Command tokens, which are also granted to solo players.

[casirabit]

Here we go again. They make some changes, yet people still complain.

 

I don't do a lot of operations, but understand where the people who do operations are coming from. I don't see this as a double grind. If you don't do operations or even pvp nothing changes for you. You still do the command the same way. Even pvp or operation individuals still have to advance their command ranks.

 

All they did was add an additonal way for operations individuals and pvp players to gear their characters. Not a big deal, or at least not to me.

[Jedi_riches]

Nothing changes for solo players with these changes. Absolutely nothing.

 

I think that's the problem, pre fix everyone said it was a bad system, its still a bad system. Yet somehow those players now don't care the system is bad because their gearing issues are sorted. But GC has not been fixed.

[Tsillah]

Here we go again. They make some changes, yet people still complain.

 

I don't do a lot of operations, but understand where the people who do operations are coming from. I don't see this as a double grind. If you don't do operations or even pvp nothing changes for you. You still do the command the same way. Even pvp or operation individuals still have to advance their command ranks.

 

All they did was add an additonal way for operations individuals and pvp players to gear their characters. Not a big deal, or at least not to me.

 

People who call it a double grind are clueless. I am just worried it doesn't quite go far enough for what it would need to be. I do think it's close however.

[LordTurin]

People who call it a double grind are clueless. I am just worried it doesn't quite go far enough for what it would need to be. I do think it's close however.

 

Yup, and even the RNG is still a step up for solo players over 4.0, who didn't have a way to get top tier gear at all.

 

Honestly, this sounds pretty good; if a little convoluted (theres like 2 or 3 new currencies being added in right? That's a little weird...). I'll mostly be waiting for details though, and if they don't announce new group content in January, I'll be seriously rethinking my sub at that point anyway.

[Tsillah]

Yup, and even the RNG is still a step up for solo players over 4.0, who didn't have a way to get top tier gear at all.

 

Honestly, this sounds pretty good; if a little convoluted (theres like 2 or 3 new currencies being added in right? That's a little weird...). I'll mostly be waiting for details though, and if they don't announce new group content in January, I'll be seriously rethinking my sub at that point anyway.

 

Yeah the group content announcement will be important I think. I am not yet convinced of their 5.1 plans but I will say it's at least a big step in the right direction. I just have to decide for myself if I believe it will meet my wishes as a gamer. Nobody's asking for perfection but I just need it to actually feel exciting again to log in.

 

New cool content will definitely help though.

[DarthSpuds]

Yup. Solo players get to keep doing exactly what they've been doing, which for them is an improvement over 4.0, as in 4.0 they had no way of getting top tier gear. Raiders and pvpers though will now at least be able to plan on what pieces they need, and can work as a group to get them.

 

I reject the idea that GC/RNG is an improvement for Solo players.

 

OK, so theoretically at least, if they want to grind for a year, they may get a few pieces of a BiS Set-Bonus set. But the chances are overwhelmingly that they won't.

 

I've opened close on 20 crates so far on my main, and I have not had ONE single bit of gear that was good enough to replace what I am already using. And I am a player for whom 99.9% of my total play time in SWtOR has been Solo.

 

In fact out of all of the crates I have opened I have had just two useful drops - schematics; EVERYTHING else was trash.

 

I'll grind all year long to earn enough tokens to let me buy the exact set of gear I want, even if that gear is one or two tiers below the BiS gear Raiders are aiming for. Because as long as I can see that every grind session is a tangible step towards my desired end-point then there is some, even if very little, merit to that grind.

 

There is no such merit to a system based purely on chance.

 

I will not even log in to play a game whose sole method of rewarding my effort is some crap RNG mechanic designed solely to stretch out the life-span of already very stale three year old content. I have too much respect for myself to do that, and I have even more respect for my money to waste it on such an abject failure of game design.

 

The more I have thought about this issue over the last few days, and especially after that car-crash failure of a "steady the ship" live stream last night, and I have concluded that if players want that BiS gear then the only viable option for them to get it is to man up and play the content that rewards it.

 

Because these failed attempts at systems that will allow everyone to feel special enough to have BiS gear but at the same time stretch things out interminably so as to at least try and extend the life of the game are just ruining the whole gaming experience.

 

All The Best

[Wayshuba]

The amount of people screaming now are those who don't seem to understand this new update at all. ¬_¬ How does an update that offers less grind, mess it up more?

 

No one can make this claim right now as we do not know what those gear pieces will cost in Command Tokens. Ben had made a comment earlier that after your had gone through 200 CxP levels or something.

 

No one thought the RNG drops were going to be as bad as they are prior to 5.0 dropping. They are worse than even the biggest skeptics imagined.

 

Everyone believed what Eric said when he mentioned getting a crate an hour. That was another complete lie. Higher tiers will take 5-10 hours PER CRATE.

 

So, forgive me if I am very skeptical that BW is going to do anything with this that is less grindy and works in players favor. Remember, they don't think the RNG or the grind is the problem. Just you need to get a specific piece at some point. Well if the grind isn't a problem to them, do not, in any way shape or form, think this is going to be less grindy.

 

If these gear pieces cost 50 tokens PLUS the drop from the Op. It is MORE grind than you have today.

 

And right now, the way they have been nerfing CxP, I would be willing to bet this system is going to be painfully grindy as well.

 

Remember, this is all BW has to hang their hat on keeping people subbed until next fall. After the content in January, nothing is coming for a while.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Wayshuba

[jimmorrisson]

More CXP

More Tokens

No Green Gear

Less Grind

[fatsi]

Solo players won't be effected by these changes. They will only make PvP and Ops more appealing. You will still be able to get everything you are getting now from the Command Crates.

[DethEater]

I think the changes they are making are positive, but for me personally they aren't enough.

 

I love making and playing alts, I usually play solo, and occasionally do ops when I'm on and can/want to get into groups, and pvp. I like to do it all. In that order (of preference). IMO this did nothing/very little to help the alt lover play-style.

 

They have done nothing but add grind since 4.0 (grindy alliance system & now galactic command) and for me this has pushed it over the top. Because of my preferred play style (alts and solo) I will have a hard time doing ops and pvp (which I also enjoy semi-regularly) because it takes too long to grind for the gear and not even just the gear, the levels to obtain the better gear too.

 

I only got 3-4 of my 30ish toons to 65 in the last expansion because replaying the story more than a couple of times was boring and the thought of grinding alliance was painful. With an even increased grind just to get to the point where I can get decent gear from the crates, more than one (if that) geared toon is highly unlikely. Galactic Command (especially with 300 slow grindy levels that determine the level of gear you MIGHT receive) should not have even been considered as a character specific system.

 

For a game that started so alt friendly and with the different stories almost making alts a must I am very disappointed with the grindy path that SWTOR is going down.

[icemoneyboi]

Do people even watch the livestream before sooking on the forums?

 

This is a huge improvement.

 

This will make it less grindy.

 

In 4.0 solo players had no way to get top gear now they do.

 

This new addition to the system will give something extra for solo players with their tokens - probably cosmetic.

 

It is better!

[Andryah]

The amount of people screaming now are those who don't seem to understand this new update at all. ¬_¬ How does an update that offers less grind, mess it up more?

 

I'll say it again. It's like the people here haven't actually played a MMO before. SWTOR 4.0 Gearing was easy, it was taking candy from a baby - easy. Now people have to actually put 'effort' into gearing folks are devolving into angry gremlins.

 

This system does not NEED rolling back. Adapt, plan ahead, put effort in or just scream more.

 

We simply don't know yet, until we see the prices on the vendor for exchanges of tokens if this is more, or less, or the same amount of grindy. I would advise against getting your hopes up until we all see the vendor in late January, or the studio discloses in advance the vendor details.

 

That said.. this is some improvement as it provides a safeguard via the vendor and players can check prices on the vendor and then calculate the likely effort and then decide to grind or not grind.

 

A rollback of the idea is not needed, but more work on the total system IS.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Andryah

[Wayshuba]

Do people even watch the livestream before sooking on the forums?

 

This is a huge improvement.

 

This will make it less grindy.

 

In 4.0 solo players had no way to get top gear now they do.

 

This new addition to the system will give something extra for solo players with their tokens - probably cosmetic.

 

It is better!

 

I watched the whole livestream. See my post above. You cannot make this claim right now at all. BW does not see the grind as an issue, only the grind all alts. So the answer was to make Command Tokens legacy wide. Other than that, they straight out said the don't know how much the gear is going to cost. Until that is known, no one at all can make the claim the game will become less grindy.

[Hebruixe]

I think that's the problem, pre fix everyone said it was a bad system, its still a bad system. Yet somehow those players now don't care the system is bad because their gearing issues are sorted. But GC has not been fixed.

 

Exactly. Raiders got a special favor. Can you blame the rest of us for feeling a bit of envy?

[ImmortalLowlife]

Exactly. Raiders got a special favor. Can you blame the rest of us for feeling a bit of envy?

 

Ok....I don't really see the problem. As an avid solo player I've never needed the top gear in the game. I'm damn near indestructible in my 216 gear (with 208 augments I crafted myself) & my lvl 25 influence companion healing. I've held my own tanking the occasional HM FP (mainly fallen emperor for Guildies needing the HK part), I've taken out legendary bounties by myself and barely broke a sweat, and I've lost the GodBot in solo FP's and not even noticed.

 

With the 5.0 RGN grind I've gotten gear that showed slightly better stats, but never even used it because it wasn't modifiable, and mine looked better. I occasionally do lowbie PvP, and I'm probally never gonna do an OP, so I really have no need to worry about "set bonuses".

 

So why all the uproar from "casual solo players" about not getting the best gear stats in game?

Edited December 16, 2016 by ImmortalLowlife

[Tsillah]

Exactly. Raiders got a special favor. Can you blame the rest of us for feeling a bit of envy?

 

Yep, I can blame you for that. You get a way to get the same gear and even better (legendary) in GC and you begrudge people who actually beat challenging content for being rewarded for that.

 

That's really just sad and greedy.

[eriksarcasm]

Ok....I don't really see the problem. As an avid solo player I've never needed the top gear in the game. I'm damn near indestructible in my 216 gear (with 208 augments I crafted myself) & my lvl 25 influence companion healing. I've held my own tanking the occasional HM FP (mainly fallen emperor for Guildies needing the HK part), I've taken out legendary bounties by myself and barely broke a sweat, and I've lost the GodBot in solo FP's and not even noticed.

 

With the 5.0 RGN grind I've gotten gear that showed slightly better stats, but never even used it because it wasn't modifiable, and mine looked better. I occasionally do lowbie PvP, and I'm probally never gonna do an OP, so I really have no need to worry about "set bonuses".

 

So why all the uproar from "casual solo players" about not getting the best gear stats in game?

 

For some, doing something for the sake of doing ist isn't enough. Gear, even if it's not "needed", acts as a prize of sorts for continued play. "Casual", like most things, isn't a strict definition. I consider myself "hard casual" because I sub, run lots of alts, and occasionally dabble in group stuff, but mostly run solo. That said there's still some "need" for better gear for solo stuff. My example: the Star Fortresses I keep trying to solo.

[xXOmniChaosXx]

Exactly. Raiders got a special favor. Can you blame the rest of us for feeling a bit of envy?

 

Come back to us when you don't get solo content for 2+ years