It's not Enough

[Tsetso]

Maybe I'm wrong on how the system works?

 

The way I understood it...each boss will drop some component, even possibly a full piece. Get enough of those components and I can directly buy a piece of gear...right? Like say each boss drops 1 component and I need 10 for a helmet...I need to kill 10 bosses before being guaranteed that helmet, right?

 

And the last boss is always guaranteed to drop an actual piece that we can turn in...right?

 

No, the bosses before the last one will only have a chance of dropping ... random piece. The component system will only work in pvp.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Tsetso

[doelow]

Try the system first. They need to push the changes to live and see how it plays out. People asking for sweeping changes aren't going to get them all at once. The system will be a constant WIP.

[TUXs]

No, the bosses before the last one will only have a chance of dropping ... random piece. The component system will only work in pvp.

Well **** me...

[DawnAskham]

Try the system first. They need to push the changes to live and see how it plays out. People asking for sweeping changes aren't going to get them all at once. The system will be a constant WIP.

 

Which IMO is exactly what they want (and I believe it is being done in a 'string them along as far as possible' way to try and keep their revenue from tanking) - that is to keep people spinning their wheels waiting for, hoping for, and chasing whatever changes they announce while keeping as much of a grind / RNG gate in place while deflecting on questions about new content.

 

Not me - my sub runs out at the end of the month and while I'll keep up with the changes and check back in to see how things are in late January and onward, I'm not paying to grind old content to bring my characters to the same level of power they had against the same old content a month ago.

Edited December 16, 2016 by DawnAskham

[Andryah]

Try the system first. They need to push the changes to live and see how it plays out. People asking for sweeping changes aren't going to get them all at once. The system will be a constant WIP.

 

No disagreement. But what they shared clearly will drive people to game PvP matches as that is the easier path for unassembled items. While PvPer probably love the idea of more people PvPing..... it also means a lot of people trolling the matches for personal gain, rather then actually being there to play good PvP.

 

They need a system of GC where it does not matter what you play... as all content progresses equally, only varying based on risk/difficulty for payouts. That way, people play what they want to play and are less inclined to game one form of content for Cxp rather then playing to actually play the content.

 

I also encourage people not to get overly optimistic about the coming changes until you see actual exchange prices on the vendor.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Andryah

[Sargrith]

The only one lying through their teeth is you - it isn't possible to 'fully gear' three characters in less than 20 crates when just the left side items that can't be dropped in legacy shells take up five slots per character (or 15 crates with perfect RNG, leaving 5 crates to fill 9 slots which can use legacy shells).

 

To be more calm let me start by defending them just as a show of good faith.

 

They aren't a raider. Maybe they had all 208 or mostly 208 gear. Likely not optimized in anyway.

 

They got some green 228 pieces, lots of blue, and a small number of purple. Plus crafting recipes for lots of other pieces (relics, implants, ear pieces, main hands...)

 

It is possible to improve 3 characters in all 208 gear in 20 crates if you take all that into consideration. They might not have any set bonuses, or such but in every honest way they are improved gearwise over what they had.

 

From their pov they geared up. Its not the same for a raider or pvper but for a casual, sure and frankly that is where the command crates actually work. For the casual player looking to get better gear. I am glad they are getting what they want and are happy with the game.

 

I am not looking to take that away from them. I just want ops to be worth running. I want to be rewarded for doing the group content fairly.

[Tsetso]

Well **** me...

 

Well, it's still a set piece so depending on the chance it would either be better to run the whole operation multiple times, or play the lockout game. And of course there will still be schematics and crafted gear. Still 1 piece per raid would probably be worse than making 2 groups and start doing ranked.

[Neshira]

The only one lying through their teeth is you - it isn't possible to 'fully gear' three characters in less than 20 crates when just the left side items that can't be dropped in legacy shells take up five slots per character (or 15 crates with perfect RNG, leaving 5 crates to fill 9 slots which can use legacy shells).

 

You're right, let me amend my statement. Between the crates and crafting I'm fully geared. Only one set piece but I dont' give a crap about set bonuses. I am geared in 230's completely on three toons and that is more than sufficient for my needs.

 

Previously I was running in all 190 gear because it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to get anything better when I don't do Ops more than once a week. Why? My guild runs them once a week. I'm on a dead server and most people who do ops would immediately kick someone geared in 190's. You need good gear to do ops to get good gear. How is that a fair system? Now at least I have a shot.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Neshira

[doelow]

Which IMO is exactly what they want (and I believe it is being done in a 'string them along as far as possible' way to try and keep their revenue from tanking) - that is to keep people spinning their wheels waiting for, hoping for, and chasing whatever changes they announce while keeping as much of a grind / RNG gate in place while deflecting on questions about new content.

 

Not me - my sub runs out at the end of the month and while I'll keep up with the changes and check back in to see how things are in late January and onward, I'm not paying to grind old content to bring my characters to the same level of power they had against the same old content a month ago.

 

Well, naturally they want you to stay subbed. That's why the system is designed to be so "grindy". Them slowly altering the system through patches isn't some nefarious plot though. It's just smart design. You have a totally new system that changes the reward cycle of the game and alters in-game player patterns drastically. You push it out. You watch. Then you modify from there via patches.

 

GC itself was the "bomb" that got dropped after a bit of testing. They aren't going to drop new bombs with each patch, because constantly altering the system in huge ways would introduce more problems faster than they could address it. And yes, there will always be people who simply do not like it and want it removed. Total removal will not be coming any time soon methinks. If they can't ever get it to a reasonable place where the dissenters are a real minority then maybe late next year/next expansion they will axe it. Who knows, they might axe it no matter what next expansion. Might just be a thing they want to do for one expansion like WoW does with things like the garrison/artifact/farm. Blizzard introduces new systems all the time then just abandons them after much tweaking.

[Sargrith]

You're right, let me amend my statement. Between the crates and crafting I'm fully geared. Only one set piece but I dont' give a crap about set bonuses. I am geared in 230's completely on three toons and that is more than sufficient for my needs.

 

Previously I was running in all 190 gear because it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to get anything better when I don't do Ops more than once a week. Why? My guild runs them once a week. I'm on a dead server and most people who do ops would immediately kick someone geared in 190's. You need good gear to do ops to get good gear. How is that a fair system? Now at least I have a shot.

 

Your statement was fair from your PoV. Theirs was from their's if a bit harsh.

 

Do you understand though why a raider and PvPer might not be happy with what you have gear wise? Set bonuses are pretty nice, and can really be a big deal. I have many fully 220/224 set bonus built characters, getting a green 228....well the armoring is worthless to me, the mod usually as well as it is usually a lettered mod (suboptimally statted) maybe the enchant matters....but not likely. 230 blues...same. Purple set pieces are great. Purple relic...maybe if its the right relic. There are purple relics I wouldn't change to even from a 220 to a 230 just because its doing the wrong thing.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

hei it took me 44 boxes to get a single upgrade lol and then i got second set piece at box #48, so i'm really annoyed (than again, i'm in full BiS 224s for both my healing and my DPS set, so green and blue crap doesn't count as an upgrade lol). RNG gearing should just be scrapped from ANY game.... but... are they really going to rollback the entire system they JUST came out with? naaah i don't think so. so i'm not expecting it. and yes a lot of people are making sense, when i consider that i'd still be playing the RNG game against my ops team... i'm happy i kept the shells of my set pieces so i can pvp a lot (even though i do suck at it quite a lot) and upgrade them as soon as possible when 5.1 comes out hehe x.x will certainly be faster than grinding 50+ more levels lol.

it's just i'll admit i'm tired of the raids we have, they're all 2-5 year old content and honestly i'd rather pvp with a few guildies than pug ops again... until they actually make a new raid lol. cause you can only roll through the same content so many times before you eventually get bored lol. i suppose that's why i'm not trying to poke them with a pitchfork for only giving us a chance at gear from bosses before the last one lol. :D... or maybe it's the pain meds >.>

Edited December 16, 2016 by Hichitsuki-hime

[Sargrith]

hei it took me 44 boxes to get a single upgrade lol and then i got second set piece at box #48, so i'm really annoyed (than again, i'm in full BiS 224s for both my healing and my DPS set, so green and blue crap doesn't count as an upgrade lol). RNG gearing should just be scrapped from ANY game.... but... are they really going to rollback the entire system they JUST came out with? naaah i don't think so. so i'm not expecting it. and yes a lot of people are making sense, when i consider that i'd still be playing the RNG game against my ops team... i'm happy i kept the shells of my set pieces so i can pvp a lot (even though i do suck at it quite a lot) and upgrade them as soon as possible when 5.1 comes out hehe x.x will certainly be faster than grinding 50+ more levels lol.

it's just i'll admit i'm tired of the raids we have, they're all 2-5 year old content and honestly i'd rather pvp with a few guildies than pug ops again... until they actually make a new raid lol. cause you can only roll through the same content so many times before you eventually get bored lol. i suppose that's why i'm not trying to poke them with a pitchfork for only giving us a chance at gear from bosses before the last one lol. :D... or maybe it's the pain meds >.>

 

I will start with saying I am sorry for saying you were acting like a white knight. It was wrong. I was wrong to do it.

 

I actually am more fired up not for myself but for my guild. I PvP a ton, have 7 or 8 characters with a valor over 70. I will not have an issue gearing up with these changes. But my guild does not for the most part PvP. We get together twice a week to raid. Already the more casual are falling behind and its getting worse. Making gear a given in raids would help them out and keep them playing. In 4.0 we could just pass gear to them, no worries. We played to enjoy it together. I could go a month without a gear upgrade as long as everyone was geared enough to try HM TFB we were fine. But now....I don't know if we will see HM ops in a long time. Already they are frustrated struggling to do what we've been doing for 5 years. Adding the drop to each op boss will make a huge difference to us. Adding it to just the last boss doesn't move the needle in a meaningful way.

 

I care less about what the devs will do and more about what they should do. They should fix the system, not patch it poorly.

[Wayshuba]

Exactly, they can keep the GC system for those who actually like it and for those non-end game players to gear. But all we want is to be able to gear like we did in Operations in 4.0, nothing more nothing less and they already know how 4.0 worked so what's the issue?

 

Forgeting about the gearing issues I want to respond to your comment about "what the issue is".

 

You just had an "expansion". Most MMO expansions usually consist of some new element for all different types of players - so in this case story, planetary exploring with new quests, FPs, OPs and WZs. Like they did with both RoTHC and SoR. Usually a new system incorporated - that also adds some grind (such a LOTRO with legendary weapons in Mines of Moria and Skirmishes in Shadows of Angmar) and, occasionally a new class to the game.

 

That being said, when you step back and look outside of just the story of the last two years there has been a miniscule amount of other content released - 1 new WZ, 1 new arena and the EC arena in Zakuul. That is it.

 

Now, when KotFE dropped, we had a gear reset based on going to level 65. We had no new content that required that gear reset, no new challenges put in front of us that needed it. Then we had the DvL event which got everyone playing alts and a lot of old content. Now 5.0 drops and we now get the SECOND gear reset with very little (1.5 hours worth) of new group content. In other words, most everything in the game as far as group content has now been played to death.

 

So, the GC system is simple. There is so little new content they have tried for the second time to further extend playing all the same old content. I honestly tried when the expansion launched but then finally realized WHY? They have reset my gear on me two times now just for me to grind to get to play the same old content again. How long do they think they can keep someones attention giving them yet another treadmill just to play the same old stuff.

 

It was then that I realized there is really a lot of still unplayed (by me at least) MMO content out there - just not in SWTOR anymore. So I signed up for the ten day trial for TSW. Played it for three days, and bought the Ultimate Edition and 90 days worth of membership (so I have four months since the UE comes with a month too). Now I am actually having fun again and experiencing the challenge of conquering content I have never seen.

 

I really didn't (and don't) want to leave SWTOR. But the combination of the appalling lack of content for a game you pay monthly for and the complete arrogance of the people running this title has finally had me have enough. I thought BW had learned that lesson in the v1.0 era, but apparently the old saying from George Santayana is true - "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Edited December 16, 2016 by Wayshuba

[DuckKing]

I'd be completely ok with the system if RNG didn't cast such a large shadow over it. Like the "I want to believe" poster in Mulder's office from X-Files that it may be possible, in theory at least, for Bioware to program its software so that it manipulates the outcome from an RNG and "rigs" the crates in their favor to get us to spend more time in their game and grind more. It's the perfect time sink that I don't want to be a part of.

 

Anything that is RNG is a bit slimy and unethical from my point of view at least. Anyways... it seems like it's not going away and if Bioware sees any success in it, than they for sure won't change it. Just my thoughts.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I will start with saying I am sorry for saying you were acting like a white knight. It was wrong. I was wrong to do it.

 

I actually am more fired up not for myself but for my guild. I PvP a ton, have 7 or 8 characters with a valor over 70. I will not have an issue gearing up with these changes. But my guild does not for the most part PvP. We get together twice a week to raid. Already the more casual are falling behind and its getting worse. Making gear a given in raids would help them out and keep them playing. In 4.0 we could just pass gear to them, no worries. We played to enjoy it together. I could go a month without a gear upgrade as long as everyone was geared enough to try HM TFB we were fine. But now....I don't know if we will see HM ops in a long time. Already they are frustrated struggling to do what we've been doing for 5 years. Adding the drop to each op boss will make a huge difference to us. Adding it to just the last boss doesn't move the needle in a meaningful way.

 

I care less about what the devs will do and more about what they should do. They should fix the system, not patch it poorly.

well hei, first time for everything. for me - first time i was called a white knight :eek: ./shudder

 

that aside, i can see how that might suck for your guild and indeed a lot of guilds and players out there. BUT: that has always existed, gearing method aside, there were always people who could get full sets of gear in a week and those who got left in the dust steaming and biting their nails.

 

the sentence "Already the more casual are falling behind and its getting worse." is not really accurate. it's not the more casual really, it's the LESS LUCKY lol. some people can get half a set out of 7 boxes, others will get 1-2 pieces out of 50, and that is exactly the issue we've been arguing about since the day 5.0 dropped. and yes i've seen a lot of bring back unassembled tokens to the ops and i'd love to see that happen. HOWEVER, since there is no expertise now, we have the same gear for PvE and PvP. that means, that the rate people gear at should be roughly the same. And ON TOP of that, we have casual solo players and newbies, there's a lot of those guys lol, and they don't necessarily even do ops or pvp, so it's them that this whole change was aimed at (or at least that's what Aowin has been maintaining for the last 130 pages of his thread, and i can't really see any other reason for this change, outside of them being busy / lazy to do more content for us to grind through lol)

 

But, i can't believe i'm saying this, cause 4.0 was the only expansion i actually got a set of full BiS gear, let alone 2, it was WAY TOO FAST. the fact that KP and EV were in rotation of the highlighted priority ops, made the gearing ridiculously easy. so no, i don't think reverting to 4.0 is a good idea or an idea they will go with lol

[PlasmaJohn]

the sentence "Already the more casual are falling behind and its getting worse." is not really accurate. it's not the more casual really, it's the LESS LUCKY lol.

The less times you pull the lever the less chances you'll have to get gear. I think what he meant was the people that don't play as much as others are falling behind in GC ranks. This is going to be felt even harder when the people that play a ton are well into Tier 2 while those that don't are still struggling through Tier 1.

 

While luck is a factor it's not the only factor. The insane grind is discouraging and burning folks out. The announced change really doesn't help all that much particularly if a team prefers more difficult content because this system barely helps gear speed.

 

RNG is the nasty insult on top of the severe injury of the Grind.

[doelow]

Forgeting about the gearing issues I want to respond to your comment about "what the issue is".

 

You just had an "expansion". Most MMO expansions usually consist of some new element for all different types of players - so in this case story, planetary exploring with new quests, FPs, OPs and WZs. Like they did with both RoTHC and SoR. Usually a new system incorporated - that also adds some grind (such a LOTRO with legendary weapons in Mines of Moria and Skirmishes in Shadows of Angmar) and, occasionally a new class to the game.

 

That being said, when you step back and look outside of just the story of the last two years there has been a miniscule amount of other content released - 1 new WZ, 1 new arena and the EC arena in Zakuul. That is it.

 

Now, when KotFE dropped, we had a gear reset based on going to level 65. We had no new content that required that gear reset, no new challenges put in front of us that needed it. Then we had the DvL event which got everyone playing alts and a lot of old content. Now 5.0 drops and we now get the SECOND gear reset with very little (1.5 hours worth) of new group content. In other words, most everything in the game as far as group content has now been played to death.

 

So, the GC system is simple. There is so little new content they have tried for the second time to further extend playing all the same old content. I honestly tried when the expansion launched but then finally realized WHY? They have reset my gear on me two times now just for me to grind to get to play the same old content again. How long do they think they can keep someones attention giving them yet another treadmill just to play the same old stuff.

 

It was then that I realized there is really a lot of still unplayed (by me at least) MMO content out there - just not in SWTOR anymore. So I signed up for the ten day trial for TSW. Played it for three days, and bought the Ultimate Edition and 90 days worth of membership (so I have four months since the UE comes with a month too). Now I am actually having fun again and experiencing the challenge of conquering content I have never seen.

 

I really didn't (and don't) want to leave SWTOR. But the combination of the appalling lack of content for a game you pay monthly for and the complete arrogance of the people running this title has finally had me have enough. I thought BW had learned that lesson in the v1.0 era, but apparently the old saying from George Santayana is true - "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

The Secret World is fantastic and everyone should play it for at least a few months. Fantastic, fantastic game. I don't even think they have gamble crates in their cash shop either... at least not last time I played. FunCom seems perpetually under threat of going bankrupt though. The game itself will probably be something of a cult classic among MMO players one day. Just really fantastic and unique.

[Tsetso]

RNG is the nasty insult on top of the severe injury of the Grind.

 

Couldn't say it better.

[AshlaBoga]

The Secret World is fantastic and everyone should play it for at least a few months. Fantastic, fantastic game. I don't even think they have gamble crates in their cash shop either... at least not last time I played. FunCom seems perpetually under threat of going bankrupt though. The game itself will probably be something of a cult classic among MMO players one day. Just really fantastic and unique.

 

Best story and dialogue of any mmo yet made.

 

But the combat just bored me until the halfway point.

 

It wasn't until I'd made my first deck that I enjoyed any of the combat. So many players played for 20 hours and then left.

 

But yeah the missions are awesome.

 

Morse Code, in-game spy cameras, Dance battles, magical musical instruments, poem clues.... that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[doelow]

Best story and dialogue of any mmo yet made.

 

But the combat just bored me until the halfway point.

 

It wasn't until I'd made my first deck that I enjoyed any of the combat. So many players played for 20 hours and then left.

 

But yeah the missions are awesome.

 

Morse Code, in-game spy cameras, Dance battles, magical musical instruments, poem clues.... that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

I really found myself going down the rabbit hole with the lore. Great community too. I met so many weird people who played. It was nice. The most memorable mission for me was early on in the game at the hotel in Kingsmouth where you follow the trail of that occultist across the world.

 

The culmination of that was a trip!

[Hichitsuki-hime]

The Secret World is fantastic and everyone should play it for at least a few months. Fantastic, fantastic game. I don't even think they have gamble crates in their cash shop either... at least not last time I played. FunCom seems perpetually under threat of going bankrupt though. The game itself will probably be something of a cult classic among MMO players one day. Just really fantastic and unique.

 

do i have to sub to it? and are the nasty zombies always gonna be there? cause ewwwww ZOMBIES!!

[Tsetso]

do i have to sub to it? and are the nasty zombies always gonna be there? cause ewwwww ZOMBIES!!

 

I believe it's f2p, but you got some nice perks for subbing.

[doelow]

do i have to sub to it? and are the nasty zombies always gonna be there? cause ewwwww ZOMBIES!!

 

It's B2P on Steam. The zombies are just one of many things lurking in the dark of the "secret world".

[Tsillah]

I've made thread about my thoughts but in the short of it I also feel it's not going quite far enough and I would be happier with every boss dropping unassembled tokens.

 

For the rest it seems like a pretty comprehensive approach I will say. It's more than I expected but stops just short of where I would want it to be.

 

I don't suppose they can put the dropped boss mechanics back into SM again to make em more fun again?

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I don't suppose they can put the dropped boss mechanics back into SM again to make em more fun again?

 

lol hon, but that will make it too hard for them newbies

though damn i do miss blowing people up in dread fortress >.>:D:D