If you wont make GC Legacy wide now, it will be too late!!

[cyrusramsey]

Maybe they could make it so that you earn buffs to the amount of CxP you earn via your legacy. Like if you reach level 50 on one character you can unlock a legacy wide XP CxP buff, and you can increase that buff as you level further. Maybe one at 50, one at 100, one at 150, so forth and so on. That way if you wanted to level up an alt you could earn CxP at a much higher rate than you did on your first character. It would still require substantial investment into one character, but I don't see why that is a problem given that the system is meant to be an end game system that leads to, eventually, very powerful gear.

 

The problem goes more than one way though. People who purely raid a lot with more than one spec might have a problem, but it's not like people who don't need the best gear, but do require more than what the first tier gives them, can opt for an alternate route.

 

If you spend enough time trying to gear your character in tier 2 or even tier 1 gear, you're most likely going to get tier 3 gear before you're done anyway. This is the fault of the system and players should not be punished for being able to get powerful gear that they're not trying to get.

 

The system is fundamentally flawed for everyone except for those who play only one or maybe two characters, and those who do not actually require any gearing up for whatever content they play. There's no simple fix to this mess.

[majopucik]

The problem goes more than one way though. People who purely raid a lot with more than one spec might have a problem, but it's not like people who don't need the best gear, but do require more than what the first tier gives them, can opt for an alternate route.

 

The thing is this isnt just for the raiders. Even PVPers change toons for a different PVP experience often. Only casual gamers (who seem be the minority in game) use 1 or 2 toons.

[Alec_Fortescue]

One thing I like SWTOR about over WoW is how it was alt-friendly. Needs to go back to that period

[Rheshalea]

The thing is this isnt just for the raiders. Even PVPers change toons for a different PVP experience often. Only casual gamers (who seem be the minority in game) use 1 or 2 toons.

 

Not saying I disagree with the sentiment overall, but ... no wait, I do disagree. In part, at least - the part about casual gamers. (Or maybe I don't quite understand what you mean, that's always a possibility too!)

I consider myself casual, and I have shedloads of alts of various levels. So far only 3 chars at 70, which is mostly because GC is not Legacy wide.

I want to play my alts, but since farming GC is the only "content" available, the thought of not farming GC on my main when I play stresses me out. I wish I could play the character I feel like playing too, not only be able to do what I want to do (which is a different discussion, but since changes are incoming tomorrow I'm not going to talk about that) on one and the same character all the time.

 

I made some suggestions in another thread a few days ago, but it's long since buried... Here's my thoughts concerning Legacy and CXP:

 

CXP

Gaining CXP needs to be Legacy wide. For a lot of players, playing alts is fun. Feeling guilty for playing an alt is NOT fun. Best case scenario here is to have all alts contributing to GC ranks and utilizing the New Crate Opening Experience so any character can access the loot. Gear would be determined depending on the class and spec of the character that opens the Command crate.

Furthermore, CXP gains for different activities need to feel fair. Difficult group content should always reward more than easy solo content, but it still needs to feel worthwhile to do the solo content as well. Again, players should not feel as if their time is badly spent if they don't do WZs on their main character all the time.

[majopucik]

Not saying I disagree with the sentiment overall, but ... no wait, I do disagree. In part, at least - the part about casual gamers. (Or maybe I don't quite understand what you mean, that's always a possibility too!)

I consider myself casual, and I have shedloads of alts of various levels. So far only 3 chars at 70, which is mostly because GC is not Legacy wide.

I want to play my alts, but since farming GC is the only "content" available, the thought of not farming GC on my main when I play stresses me out. I wish I could play the character I feel like playing too, not only be able to do what I want to do (which is a different discussion, but since changes are incoming tomorrow I'm not going to talk about that) on one and the same character all the time.

 

I made some suggestions in another thread a few days ago, but it's long since buried... Here's my thoughts concerning Legacy and CXP:

 

CXP

Gaining CXP needs to be Legacy wide. For a lot of players, playing alts is fun. Feeling guilty for playing an alt is NOT fun. Best case scenario here is to have all alts contributing to GC ranks and utilizing the New Crate Opening Experience so any character can access the loot. Gear would be determined depending on the class and spec of the character that opens the Command crate.

Furthermore, CXP gains for different activities need to feel fair. Difficult group content should always reward more than easy solo content, but it still needs to feel worthwhile to do the solo content as well. Again, players should not feel as if their time is badly spent if they don't do WZs on their main character all the time.

 

"Casual" is a big category. When I was casual i had 3 toons, 1 Sentinel, 1 Guardian and 1 Assasin. I was only playing my sentinel and Assasin (as my imp character), when i couldnt get pops i went on my Guardian tank. I didnt care about gear, only used crystals to buy gear, no set bonus, no stats no nothing.

 

My rotation was crap and still i did ops and HM FPS, besides that i did dailies weeklies and that was pretty much it, no real goal in the game. Thats how i imagine casuals. There is also the category or RP casual, who does have more alts, but mainly for various RP purposes, so he doesnt have to be top level etc, he just have to have the right clothes.

 

As for the CXP I would like to reformulate your statement about earnings from CXP and also add the fact about "time spent" as you spent significantly more time in an operation than doing a Heroic in group, so that should be a factor too. So that its not like you spend 8 min in a ranked match and get 1142 cxp or spend 1 hour in a NiM ops to get 3000 cxp.

[Rheshalea]

"Casual" is a big category. When I was casual i had 3 toons, 1 Sentinel, 1 Guardian and 1 Assasin. I was only playing my sentinel and Assasin (as my imp character), when i couldnt get pops i went on my Guardian tank. I didnt care about gear, only used crystals to buy gear, no set bonus, no stats no nothing.

 

My rotation was crap and still i did ops and HM FPS, besides that i did dailies weeklies and that was pretty much it, no real goal in the game. Thats how i imagine casuals. There is also the category or RP casual, who does have more alts, but mainly for various RP purposes, so he doesnt have to be top level etc, he just have to have the right clothes.

 

As for the CXP I would like to reformulate your statement about earnings from CXP and also add the fact about "time spent" as you spent significantly more time in an operation than doing a Heroic in group, so that should be a factor too. So that its not like you spend 8 min in a ranked match and get 1142 cxp or spend 1 hour in a NiM ops to get 3000 cxp.

 

Indeed.

There's solos-casuals (me), RP-casuals, small-group casuals, PvP-casuals, Ops-casuals... maybe even time-casuals, who'd be those that do everything but simply don't have time or want to spend all their free time playing this game.

 

As for your second point, I absolutely agree. Furthermore, in Ops there's always a risk you might not kill the bosses and get nothing at all, whereas in PvP you'll get a big bunch of CXP no matter if you win or lose.

[Magira]

 

The real game with an alt friendly perspective as of late is ESO now tbh, the new champ system replaced the crappy old character based Vet system and improved it very much for an alt friendly game

 

Nah, ESO is grinding also. In GW2 you have all 9 classes with best gear und all talents in 1 Hour. Only for PVP of course.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Magira

[majopucik]

Indeed.

There's solos-casuals (me), RP-casuals, small-group casuals, PvP-casuals, Ops-casuals... maybe even time-casuals, who'd be those that do everything but simply don't have time or want to spend all their free time playing this game.

 

As for me i can play only a few times per week and want to get most of it each time. Before it was fine, login at ops time do whats needed get whats wanted and logout. Now its a drag, i login on one toon and try to get GC rank up, no alts no crafting, no nothing, just CXP grind and all that on one toon only.

 

 

As for your second point, I absolutely agree. Furthermore, in Ops there's always a risk you might not kill the bosses and get nothing at all, whereas in PvP you'll get a big bunch of CXP no matter if you win or lose.

 

Exactly, even if u lose a ranked wz, you still can get up to 600 cxp and that for a few minutes of play, I really cannot suggest a system for how to award cxp for ops but one thing would be for certain, they should make the mobs in ops drop CXP, make it an exception, but also protect against farming cause the way its now is simple terrible.

[Jeweledleah]

WOW started becoming alt unfriendly in the new Legion expansion. Back in WOD and MOP the game was very alt friendly. You could gear up a new toon within 2 weeks back in those days. But Legion threw that out the window with the artifact weapon grind.

 

WoW was never alt friend. it was not as alt unfriendly as Legion, but it was never alt friendly. none of the reputations were account wide. legendaries had to be earned one character at a time. So were attunments back when they existed.

 

people had alts in WoW DESPITE of how alts were treated, not becasue of it. its funny that you say that MoP was alt friendly.... given how rep grind had to be done from scratch on every single character. oh, you mean those buffs to rep gain on alts you could buy? still had to do grind from scratch. still had to earn cloak from scratch. and with WoD - even more so, as the catch up mechanic for legendary ring was very minor for alts specifically. garrizons were character specific. the only things that are genuinely account wide in WoW are mounts and pets. well.. they made flying account wide, but it takes a crapton of effort to earn and is not even available for Legion yet.

 

WoW. was NEVER alt friendly. there's like one achievement that requires.. 2 alts I think? and its just fluff. you were always encouraged to pick a main and stick to them.

 

meanwhile swtor has mechanics in place to encourage you to roll alts. the whole legacy system is based on it. so this expansion is... just sad.

 

SWTOR is NOT WoW. that its trying to be WoW is just... insane. but its not just tyring to be WoW. it tries to be grindier and randomer, while simultaneous providing fraction of a fraction of new content that Legion brought

 

Nah, ESO is grinding also. In GW2 you have all 9 classes with best gear und all talents in 1 Hour. Only for PVP of course.

 

its alt friendlier grind though, at least post one Tamriel. that doesn't feel as much like a grind, since everything genuinely does level Champion system nowadays - account wide system.

 

I haven't been a progression raider in WoW for years, and I don't keep up to date with all the changes they've done since I left that game. So I may be wrong, but...

I haven't heard that the Artifact weapon is the only weapon upgrade in the game.

I haven't heard that raids and/or instances no longer drop any gear.

I haven't heard that the new content in Legion takes only 10-15 hours to play through.

I haven't heard that SWTOR is part of WoW.

 

in Legion (latest expac) artifact weapon IS the only weapon upgrade you can have at max level. however - all other gear STILL drops off content, and unlike CXP - artifact leveling involves zero RNG. merely lots and lots of effort. but as long as you make an effort, you will get all the upgrades you want for it. and incidentaly the whole artifact weapon thing was and IS still controversial topic for WoW . but basically I agree with you, just correcting your assumption about artifact weapon.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Jeweledleah

[omaan]

Thats the reason why i go playing wow after my sub here ends, iam so tired to play SAME OLD CONTENT on SAME CHARACTER CLASS that iam barely "survivng" each day in swtor. Before 5.0 i could do old content but at least on different characters and my main had best gear in game, but now lol i can't gear up even my main so i just can't play my alts, i will be farmed in warzones very long time. I would consider subbing more if this game had legacy wide cxp system but no, bw wants this game dead

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Artifact weapon grind in WOW is not account wide so why should bioware make GC Legacy wide?? Your post is invalid and meaningless.

yes but in wow you can spend resources to infinitely craft Ancient Knowledge whats-their-face and increase your AP gain rate that way. now if there was something like this in swtor it wouldn't be half bad

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Thats the reason why i go playing wow after my sub here ends, iam so tired to play SAME OLD CONTENT on SAME CHARACTER CLASS that iam barely "survivng" each day in swtor. Before 5.0 i could do old content but at least on different characters and my main had best gear in game, but now lol i can't gear up even my main so i just can't play my alts, i will be farmed in warzones very long time. I would consider subbing more if this game had legacy wide cxp system but no, bw wants this game dead

 

let me just warn you, the grind in WoW is not much better. you grind world quest for rep and rewards, you grind Artifact power.....part of why i stopped.... only to have swtor do the same thing only in an even worse way 2 months later LOL

[serenitty]

So people complain the gear drop in crates are terrible so now you want to limit the chances even further by making it legacy wide. Once it reaches what, 300 you get nothing else ever. Edited December 12, 2016 by serenitty

[ivanhedgehog]

Artifact weapon grind in WOW is not account wide so why should bioware make GC Legacy wide?? Your post is invalid and meaningless.

 

WOW actually makes new content. Your post is invalid and meaningless

[ivanhedgehog]

So people complain the gear drop in crates are terrible so now you want to limit the chances even further by making it legacy wide. Once it reaches what, 300 you get nothing else ever.

 

once you hit 300 you get a new box every time you level but the number 300 does not increment. you continue to get new boxes though.

[serenitty]

once you hit 300 you get a new box every time you level but the number 300 does not increment. you continue to get new boxes though.

Ok, I did not know that.

[DawnAskham]

Artifact weapon grind in WOW is not account wide so why should bioware make GC Legacy wide?? Your post is invalid and meaningless.

 

Gear gains (e.g. getting a box, similar to AP) should not be account wide, but gaining GC levels which determine which rating of gear your RNG box might contain should be account wide.

 

And AP in WoW is different than GC in that the rewards are deterministic (gain a rank, earn a skill point) and not driven by RNG, as well as AP gains are tied to AK (artifact knowledge), which while not account based, has a catch up mechanism that helps players catch up their AP.

 

Not to mention as others have said, the vast majority of gear in WoW still drops from known sources, with higher difficulty / more challenging content dropping higher levels of gear.

 

And of course the big difference is WoW actually has new content, from all new open world areas to new dungeons to new raids, so all the gains in gearing or AP in WoW are done playing fresh content, not stale years old content.

Edited December 12, 2016 by DawnAskham

[Hichitsuki-hime]

and wow. first they make us do all of the game for DvL. now they're doing it on a bigger scale for the GC ranks ./engage headbang mode:D:D

[Andryah]

and wow. first they make us do all of the game for DvL. now they're doing it on a bigger scale for the GC ranks ./engage headbang mode:D:D

 

DvL was voluntary. Nobody was forced in any way to do it. Most players did as much of it as they wanted and then stopped. If you felt you were actually forced to do the whole thing, or any of it, you miscalculated reality here, or perhaps too easily chase carrots.

 

GC pretty much is as well. You can get decent gear without ever earning a point of Cxp if you choose. And as time goes on, you will also be able to progress that gear without earning a point of Cxp too. The only thing truly locked behind Cxp is set bonus gear in three tiers.

 

228s and even 230s are readily available in game, and in another month or two higher items will be too... as the player economy will fill the game in gear under the current GC until such time as they get it tuned right. Of course this is not the most optimal approach for some, but it IS a workable approach. Crafters are your friend in 5.0. If you don't have any crafter friends, or are not crafting self-sufficient, you can buy them from the GTN, or go make some friends in game.

 

And players who have done the math have concluded that until some changes are made to GC.... they will not grind Cxp and will instead keep their old set bonus gear and upgrade the mod/enhancement slots and move forward until better gear drops for them (either from crates or from the GTN).

 

We have a whole year with this expac before the next one... no need to be fully capped on gear in a few weeks. I get that their is desire, but the actual need is pretty marginal. Want and need are two completely different things in the equation.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Andryah

[Hichitsuki-hime]

DvL was voluntary. Nobody was forced in any way to do it.

 

GC pretty much is as well. You can get decent gear without ever earning a point of Cxp if you choose. And as time goes on, you will also be able to progress that gear without earning a point of Cxp too. The only thing truly locked behind Cxp is set bonus gear in three tiers. 228s and even 230s are readily available, and in another month or two higher items will be too... as the player economy will fill the game in gear under the current GC until such time as they get it tuned right. Of course this is not the most optimal approach for some, but it IS a workable approach.

And players who have done the math have concluded that until some changes are made to GC.... they will not grind Cxp and will instead keep their old set bonus gear and upgrade the mod/enhancement slots and move forward.

We have a whole year with this expac before the next one... no need to be fully capped on gear in a few weeks. I get that their is desire, but the actual need is pretty marginal. Want and need are two completely different things in the equation.

well okay, with DvL i guess it is true, i just wanted to get my achievs lol.

but with GC, well........ if you mean crafted gear, not all of us have spare millions. I don't really consider blue and green stuff to be gear really... well at least not GOOD gear lol. and well, since i do have full 224s with full SB, upgrades for me would be at least 230 purple set bonus lol. sooo if i want to upgrade, i NEED to grind. and now how much i am willing to grind, it really depends on the grind. if there was new stuff to do i certainly wouldn't mind it as much. as it is though, it's not working out too well lol

[Tsillah]

well okay, with DvL i guess it is true, i just wanted to get my achievs lol.

but with GC, well........ if you mean crafted gear, not all of us have spare millions. I don't really consider blue and green stuff to be gear really... well at least not GOOD gear lol. and well, since i do have full 224s with full SB, upgrades for me would be at least 230 purple set bonus lol. sooo if i want to upgrade, i NEED to grind. and now how much i am willing to grind, it really depends on the grind. if there was new stuff to do i certainly wouldn't mind it as much. as it is though, it's not working out too well lol

 

Nobody is forced to log in and play either. His points are not adding anything because in the end it's not about what's needed but what people experience as fun or not since this is a computer game. Trying to prove that something is not needed, doesn't suddenly make it fun again.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Tsillah

[Theeko]

Nah, ESO is grinding also. In GW2 you have all 9 classes with best gear und all talents in 1 Hour. Only for PVP of course.

 

the new Champ system is account wide, what is grindy about that? Any character can add xp to it and level it up

[Andryah]

well okay, with DvL i guess it is true, i just wanted to get my achievs lol.

 

AND.. they removed the achievements! A bad move in my view, but it's their game not mine.. so I accept it "as is"

 

but with GC, well........ if you mean crafted gear, not all of us have spare millions. I don't really consider blue and green stuff to be gear really... well at least not GOOD gear lol. and well, since i do have full 224s with full SB, upgrades for me would be at least 230 purple set bonus lol. sooo if i want to upgrade, i NEED to grind. and now how much i am willing to grind, it really depends on the grind. if there was new stuff to do i certainly wouldn't mind it as much. as it is though, it's not working out too well lol

 

Yes, primarily crafted gear... and 228s are not that expensive if you are a patient shopper, except for augment slots and augments (but this will change over time). They even drop as random drop in game (I have gotten three of them since 5.0 went live, just leveling up characters to 70). 230s are expensive right now, but that too will come down over time, and frankly... not that much difference between 228s and 230s right now.

 

And yes, if you do not craft.. you do have to purchase.... but you also can make plenty of credits to cover the full cost of 228s within a week given how many ways there are to generate credits now days.

 

Our guild did a full scale ramp-up and manufacture of 228s+ augs for the entire guild, and many alts, in about a week. We are fine for now and can play forward and wait on the many needed adjustments to GC.

[Andryah]

Nobody is forced to log in and play either. His points are useless because in the end it's not about what's needed but what people experience as fun or not since this is a computer game. Trying to prove that something is not needed, doesn't suddenly make it fun again.

 

Trying to prove that getting your top end gear in a few weeks = fun is also not applicable. Too many people are falling for that line of reasoning and hence are getting really frustrated right now because the look at it as the only way to move forward in game. That is simply NOT true unless/until good gear drops like candy in game.

 

But hey.... every player gets to decide for themselves what they want to do and what is fun, and how to go about the fun part. But to state that my points are useless is biased on your part. I am simply giving suggestions to help players that want to be helped to find ways to bypass the grind for the time being until the studio gets GC properly tuned and with safeguards for set bonus.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Andryah

[LordArtemis]

I don't think it needs to be made legacy wide IF it was designed as a post cap horizontal progression system, as I suspect.

 

HOWEVER, putting end game armor in the system on a pure RNG basis was not a wise move IMO.

 

I would propose the following changes should be made to the system to make it more palatable to end game players.

 

1) Substantially increase the amount of CXP paid out from all sources.

2) Reduce the amount of CXP needed to level, especially the first 100 levels.

3) Reduce the weekly cap SUBSTANTIALLY to discourage abuse.

4) Incorporate a feature into the current system that will allow any tier armor piece to be converted into a token instead of destroyed for CXP, and open a vendor on Odessen for purchase of missing armor pieces.

 

Finally, I strongly recommend they make two further changes to the system....

 

1) Give players some kind of boost for each level, similar to class buffs. Something like .015 percent boost to secondary stats for every command level achieved.

2) Either move the level cap for the command system to 5000 levels or eliminate the cap entirely.