please dont over nerf mercs/commandos bw people just arent used to the new dcds

[tavrinDosa]

if you nerf them based on how many people are complaining, thats the wrong movek. these people are the ones prior to patch who tunneled mercs in pvp. since they are used to that and cant do it anymore they are uncomfortable with their playstyle and want you to fix it. but this isnt the right move. dont over nerf, dont.

[Nightkin]

Yes, because history clearly shows us that logic and fairness is what dictates class balance

[Soljin]

if you nerf them based on how many people are complaining, thats the wrong movek. these people are the ones prior to patch who tunneled mercs in pvp. since they are used to that and cant do it anymore they are uncomfortable with their playstyle and want you to fix it. but this isnt the right move. dont over nerf, dont.

 

It's true people have not learned to counter yet and it would be a mistake to remove utilities or skills as some have suggested..

 

A slight numbers adjustment would be fine to whatever end BW feels is needed.

 

Regarding perception....I do believe this plays a large part in the Nerf cries...people are accustomed to killing Mercs fairly easily under focus fire.....

 

Now that they must target swap, stun or even disengage to return later....people are having a hard time getting past the ego wall.....So it makes people angry.

 

If BW decides to adjust the class a bit, so be it. Like I said though they need to avoid removing abilities or utilities because of Nerf calls.....

 

That is exactly what put Merc in a bad place for a very long time....People cried, Bioware nerfed....then people learned where the intterupt button was and Mercs became bottom tier.....

 

Do not make that mistake again Bioware...please address issues with adjustment in increments....at most that is all that is really needed.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Soljin

[Acaelus-Thorne]

It's true people have not learned to counter yet and it would be a mistake to remove utilities or skills as some have suggested..

 

A slight numbers adjustment would be fine to whatever end BW feels is needed.

 

Regarding perception....I do believe this plays a large part in the Nerf cries...people are accustomed to killing Mercs fairly easily under focus fire.....

 

Now that they must target swap, stun or even disengage to return later....people are having a hard time getting past the ego wall.....So it makes people angry.

 

If BW decides to adjust the class a bit, so be it. Like I said though they need to avoid removing abilities or utilities because of Nerf calls.....

 

That is exactly what put Merc in a bad place for a very long time....People cried, Bioware nerfed....then people learned where the intterupt button was and Mercs became bottom tier.....

 

Do not make that mistake again Bioware...please address issues with adjustment in increments....at most that is all that is really needed.

 

I agree. So many of these mercs are broken posts come from bads who don't know how to play their class or learn to counter other classes. Merc could use a slight adjustment but I know no one on my server that competes high end that are saying they are OP. Pay attention and know how to CC and you can still easily shut a merc down. Not as easily as before but that's the whole point they have been broken for so long. It all comes down to player skill. Most pvpers are bad. Most bads complain the loudest. I do hope BW let's this play out before bringing out the nerfed bat

[kissingaiur]

Ok, let's be clear. Mercs in 5.0 in PvP are broken. Absolutely broken. Arguably more broken than any other class prier.

 

Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of plebs out there that complain about class imbalance when it's not warranted but in this case with Mercs in the current 5.0 release, these players are absolutely correct. Mercs need pretty heavy DCD nerfs to put them in line with the other classes in the game.

 

Why? They have single handedly broken solo ranked. My whole guild is active in the solo ranked community and they said it's an absolute nightmare. They get 3-7 Mercs in their games all the time. Every game goes to acid. Our group ranked healer says he doesn't even need to heal Mercs in tank/healer games because their DCDs are just that good. He says when he has Mercs on his team he spends the whole game DPSing because he doesn't need to heal as a healer. These aren't players who don't know what they are doing. These players have been playing solo ranked and group ranked since it was released. We all agree that Mercs have some serious, heavy imbalances that need to be addressed.

 

Another thing that I would like to point out: You think that this is just a PvP issue? I heard there are certain PvE fights where Mercs pull groups of adds (where it use to be a tanks job) then heal to full while reflecting damage back. They are not only messing with PvP negatively, they are also creating unbalanced issues in PvE.

 

If anyone seriously argues that Mercs are balanced in any way now, you are bluntly incorrect. I for one am excited for the upcoming class balance changes. They will being much needed stability within both PvP and PvE communities.

Edited December 9, 2016 by kissingaiur

[Razortron]

What did you test on the PTS server again? was it class balance? was you all high?

[kvandertulip]

They balance classes mostly based on popularity. Count the number of mercs you see in any given warzone nowadays.

 

They are going to get nerfed.

Edited December 9, 2016 by kvandertulip

[CaptQuazar]

Regarding perception....I do believe this plays a large part in the Nerf cries...people are accustomed to killing Mercs fairly easily under focus fire.....

 

Now that they must target swap, stun or even disengage to return later....people are having a hard time getting past the ego wall.....So it makes people angry.

 

This is the core of the issue right here. People are so used to all piling on the Merc and burning them down through all of their DCDs. Now they have to adopt new tactics. To those that just blindly tunnel Mercs, yeah, they seem OP as hell. To those that know how to counterplay, Mercs are stronger than what they once were, but not OP.

 

I hope the devs understand this better than anyone and don't nerf Mercs back into free-cast heroes.

[omaan]

if you nerf them based on how many people are complaining, thats the wrong movek. these people are the ones prior to patch who tunneled mercs in pvp. since they are used to that and cant do it anymore they are uncomfortable with their playstyle and want you to fix it. but this isnt the right move. dont over nerf, dont.

 

Are you really that dumb? Or you just think about yourselve? It's now much easier to kill a tank or a healer under guard than to kill even unguarded merc and you think it's normal?

[Jherad]

It does give me a little joy that some of the people complaining hardest about mercs right now main operatives. (Not that they've *ever* been OP themselves imho, but they've always been a PITA for me)

 

For me, the best thing of all this has been running 4s, and seeing people reevaluate which class they focus first. It was almost always mercs or snipers first - now they're down the list a ways after juggs and PTs. Whatever changes in the coming days and weeks, I hope that stays.

 

Are you really that dumb? Or you just think about yourselve? It's now much easier to kill a tank or a healer under guard than to kill even unguarded merc and you think it's normal?

 

Only if both the healer and tank are functionally retarded.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Jherad

[AmarantKando]

I just hope they don't nerf merc heals aswell...

[xxIncubixx]

vanguard which is a melee class since sometime, has 2 defensive abilities... one is laughable at best. Commando which is a ranged dps has reactive shield (same as vanguard) better adrenaline rush, 6 sec imune, heals, much more DPS and 30 meters... GG . Bioware logic Edited December 9, 2016 by xxIncubixx

[Jherad]

vanguard which is a melee class since sometime, has 2 defensive abilities... one is laughable at best. Commando which is a ranged dps has reactive shield (same as vanguard) better adrenaline rush, 6 sec imune, heals, much more DPS and 30 meters... GG . Bioware logic

 

For the longest time, VGs had the better overall defences before utilities, and as a result they were much, much more capable in ranked. They are still completely unreliant on channels to bring their DPS (and burst) to bear, which is why if they're able to keep the mando in range a good VG will win a melee fight (as they should).

 

Higher health pools often end up hurting those classes which rely on extreme burst within CC windows to win however, which is why some Vanguards/PTs and Scoundrels/Ops feel like they've got the short end of the stick. Combat sents and mercs not so much because they also have pretty good sustained.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Jherad

[Neulwen]

They shouldn't be over-nerfed, but they do definitely need a nerf. They have ridiculously too much survivability, compared to other classes. Just remove the new shield, for starters. Edited December 10, 2016 by Neulwen

[xxIncubixx]

For the longest time, VGs had the better overall defences before utilities, and as a result they were much, much more capable in ranked. They are still completely unreliant on channels to bring their DPS (and burst) to bear, which is why if they're able to keep the mando in range a good VG will win a melee fight (as they should).

 

Higher health pools often end up hurting those classes which rely on extreme burst within CC windows to win however, which is why some Vanguards/PTs and Scoundrels/Ops feel like they've got the short end of the stick. Combat sents and mercs not so much because they also have pretty good sustained.

 

what? after 5.0 vanguard win against comando... i want some of what you are smoking... better dps overall HIGHER BURST better defensive cooldowns, better mobility and range sure if the comando doesnt have a brain i guess

Edited December 10, 2016 by xxIncubixx

[ButterflyCactus]

There are GOOD players that are complaining about mercs/mandos. It's 2 weeks into 5.0 and saying that people aren't used to them yet is undermining a lot of good players' ability to adapt to new changes. It's not a matter of "Oh I understand how these dcds work so therefore I shouldn't have any problem adapting to it." Of course they're easy to understand. The problem is that no class has a good way of countering these dcds when up against good mandos/mercs.

[AllisonLightning]

Are you really that dumb? Or you just think about yourselve? It's now much easier to kill a tank or a healer under guard than to kill even unguarded merc and you think it's normal?

 

I shouldn't be able to kill a Corruption Sorcerer easier than a DPS mercenary but that's what is happening. If I'm doing my tank- I guard a Mercenary/Commando because it's the most effective payoff. I lucked in the other day and while I'm good at my main, it was an arena and my teammates were all Mercs- it was such an easy win that I was almost falling asleep and the other team had a healer.

 

They are broken. I get they needed a boost but it's broken the entire AC so much so that the overreaction nerf is going to break it worse than they had it in 4.0. That's the real issue and anyone on a DPS sorcerer knows that. They were never DPS OP, just versatile and good at slipping away and jack of all trades but people couldn't deal. That's knowing mechanics and how to shut them down. I'm sorry but if that was too difficult for people, then why would this AC be a special case?

 

Note: I back away when the orange shield goes up.

Edited December 10, 2016 by AllisonLightning

[Pietrastor]

Seems to me many are just mad they lost "free merc/mando kill". Edited December 10, 2016 by Pietrastor

[nogoodtomedead]

As a Merc main, I agree that some adjustments are needed. But I would caution against strong nerfs. This class needed these abilities and as someone mentioned above, Mercs/Mandos have always been #1 on the kill order prior to 5.0.

 

There is a new learning curve, if players would simply learn to adapt and learn what to watch for, Then those "self heals" aren't worth much.

[Campaigner]

This just in:

Teams of mercenaries are net-locking people into unsubscribing!

 

Devs already working on taking away their burst and turning them into another gimmick class like dps operative.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Campaigner

[Volxen]

Ok, let's be clear. Mercs in 5.0 in PvP are broken. Absolutely broken. Arguably more broken than any other class prier.

 

Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of plebs out there that complain about class imbalance when it's not warranted but in this case with Mercs in the current 5.0 release, these players are absolutely correct. Mercs need pretty heavy DCD nerfs to put them in line with the other classes in the game.

 

Why? They have single handedly broken solo ranked. My whole guild is active in the solo ranked community and they said it's an absolute nightmare. They get 3-7 Mercs in their games all the time. Every game goes to acid. Our group ranked healer says he doesn't even need to heal Mercs in tank/healer games because their DCDs are just that good. He says when he has Mercs on his team he spends the whole game DPSing because he doesn't need to heal as a healer. These aren't players who don't know what they are doing. These players have been playing solo ranked and group ranked since it was released. We all agree that Mercs have some serious, heavy imbalances that need to be addressed.

 

Another thing that I would like to point out: You think that this is just a PvP issue? I heard there are certain PvE fights where Mercs pull groups of adds (where it use to be a tanks job) then heal to full while reflecting damage back. They are not only messing with PvP negatively, they are also creating unbalanced issues in PvE.

 

If anyone seriously argues that Mercs are balanced in any way now, you are bluntly incorrect. I for one am excited for the upcoming class balance changes. They will being much needed stability within both PvP and PvE communities.

 

No, mercs aren’t the problem in solo ranked. The major problem with solo ranked is the fact that assassin/juggernaut/powertech DPS can guard. A team with one or two DPS who can guard has a massive advantage over a team with no DPS who can guard. As a pub player on the harbinger, a lot of the solo ranked matches I get thrown into consist of 3 DPS and 1 healer on each side. I often get placed into matches with compositions like 1 assassin DPS, 1 juggernaut DPS, 1 merc DPS, and 1 sorc healer vs 1 sentinel DPS, 1 commando DPS, 1 gunslinger DPS, and 1 sage healer. In such matches, both the merc DPS and the sorc healer will be guarded, so our team has to try and burst down both the assassin DPS and the juggernaut DPS before we can even begin to kill their healer. Whereas all of their DPS can immediately start focusing our healer, since we have no DPS capable of guarding. It's essentially a guaranteed win for the imps, unless they make a major mistake.

 

The imps in solo ranked understand this all too well, which is why 99.99999% of solo ranked games consist of at least one assassin DPS or juggernaut DPS who guards (actually, in most of my solo ranked matches lately two of the three DPS on the imp side are usually assassin or juggernaut). I see far, far more assassins and juggernauts in solo ranked than I do mercs. Unfortunately the pubs on harbinger have not caught on to just how game changing guard is in solo ranked, so the majority of the matches I get thrown into are unbalanced, with the imps having 1-2 guards and our side having none. I still try to enjoy solo ranked as much as I can, but it would be 100000000X more enjoyable if they would lock guard to the tanking discipline.

 

Mercs may be stronger than they have ever been before, but the impact that they have on the outcome of solo ranked matches vastly pales in comparison to the impact that guard has on the outcome of solo ranked matches.

[Tharianus]

It does give me a little joy that some of the people complaining hardest about mercs right now main operatives. (Not that they've *ever* been OP themselves imho, but they've always been a PITA for me)

 

For me, the best thing of all this has been running 4s, and seeing people reevaluate which class they focus first. It was almost always mercs or snipers first - now they're down the list a ways after juggs and PTs. Whatever changes in the coming days and weeks, I hope that stays.

 

 

 

Only if both the healer and tank are functionally retarded.

 

Same for me - feels bad for all those crybabis.

I never cried over the years.

 

Anyway I was able to play on par pre 5.0 with an underperforming class and now I enjoy it even more to face tank those people like Sorcs did in the past.

 

I mentioned that mercs got too much defs now but it is not worse like smash times / dot sin times or other Meta periods.

 

Slight ajustments and everything is fine.

 

People who say "they are totally broken" have absolutely no clue about this class in general.

 

Edit: people who are crying are just too lazy to adapt or have to learn to deal with the current Meta game.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Tharianus

[Nightkin]

No, mercs aren’t the problem in solo ranked. The major problem with solo ranked is the fact that assassin/juggernaut/powertech DPS can guard. A team with one or two DPS who can guard has a massive advantage over a team with no DPS who can guard. As a pub player on the harbinger, a lot of the solo ranked matches I get thrown into consist of 3 DPS and 1 healer on each side. I often get placed into matches with compositions like 1 assassin DPS, 1 juggernaut DPS, 1 merc DPS, and 1 sorc healer vs 1 sentinel DPS, 1 commando DPS, 1 gunslinger DPS, and 1 sage healer. In such matches, both the merc DPS and the sorc healer will be guarded, so our team has to try and burst down both the assassin DPS and the juggernaut DPS before we can even begin to kill their healer. Whereas all of their DPS can immediately start focusing our healer, since we have no DPS capable of guarding. It's essentially a guaranteed win for the imps, unless they make a major mistake.

 

The imps in solo ranked understand this all too well, which is why 99.99999% of solo ranked games consist of at least one assassin DPS or juggernaut DPS who guards (actually, in most of my solo ranked matches lately two of the three DPS on the imp side are usually assassin or juggernaut). I see far, far more assassins and juggernauts in solo ranked than I do mercs. Unfortunately the pubs on harbinger have not caught on to just how game changing guard is in solo ranked, so the majority of the matches I get thrown into are unbalanced, with the imps having 1-2 guards and our side having none. I still try to enjoy solo ranked as much as I can, but it would be 100000000X more enjoyable if they would lock guard to the tanking discipline.

 

Mercs may be stronger than they have ever been before, but the impact that they have on the outcome of solo ranked matches vastly pales in comparison to the impact that guard has on the outcome of solo ranked matches.

Most accurate view of solo ranked i have seen so far

[Nightkin]

Ok, let's be clear. Mercs in 5.0 in PvP are broken. Absolutely broken. Arguably more broken than any other class prier.

 

Why? They have single handedly broken solo ranked

 

If mercs are such GODS of PvP now and break solo ranked every time they join...then how come they are currently second LAST on the leaderboards?

 

Jugs, Sorcs, Assassins, Snipers, Powertechs all have higher rating, some have considerably higher then the highest merc. Operative is last but only a few points behind the merc leader.

 

I find that funny, and i kinda feel like it renders your judgement to be utter BS

[Larzi]

They are ranked poorly because a lot of non pvpers are using the class to earn quick CXP. should be obvious.

 

Nerf the damage output if the DCDs remain.

 

40k crits + 90k instant self heals = BROKEN