Stop hating on the devs!

[CaioAguiar]

Sure thing pal, i'm gonna PAY for a a game and be cool with anything and not complain when they destroy it and have no respect for the customer. I lost things on this roll back > money, items, conquest, command levels.

 

They haven't said a single word about compensation, and you want me to not hate them?]

 

You sound like it's not your money that pays your subscription.

[Celise]

Note how this thread and others like it won't be moved to off topic...

 

it will be moved off-topic most likely because it is not actually constructive to the game discussion. the usual pattern in most of these threads: self-destructive comments, trolling and one sided ignorant answers posing as logical reasoning and so on.

[cyrusramsey]

SWTOR is not a religion, political group or non profit organization. It is not a family member or close friend. It is a consumer product design to elicit profit.

 

It is therefore subject to the same kind of scrutiny and feedback that any for profit consumer product would be subject to in an open MMO market. I would even contend that this kind of feedback is vital to the products long term health and profitability.

 

So, keep the complaints and/or praise coming. Ignore the OP, and similar silly comments.

 

^ This.

 

I believe it shouldn't be made personal, there have been cases where people have gone too far, but for the most part I see people genuinely trying to convey how they experience aspects of the game, what they like, what they don't like.

 

While it might be unpleasant for a developer to see a large crowd complain about the new feature they're so very proud of, they wouldn't know there were people with a problem if nobody spoke up.

 

It's up to BW to decide how to act on it, but we should be giving our opinions.

[DarthSpuds]

Hating the RNG has got nothing to do with hating devs, in fact the only ones to blame are the management for approving the idea and the lead developer for thinking of the idea, the rest of the devs and staff are there to do the job to develop, they can't be held responsible for what their management chooses to do. they have a job like a lot of other people and they got to pay the bills as well.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with it.

 

There's a thing called "personal responsibility" and there's another thing called "professional integrity".

 

The former means I take responsibility for what I do, even if told to do it by "higher ups".

The latter means that at times, I am forced to say No to those higher ups.

 

Edmund Burke once said that "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

 

I contend that "all that is necessary for the triumph of mediocrity is that good men say nothing".

 

Any Developer worthy of the title when faced with the outline for 5.0 would have stood up and said "hang on, that's madness, its utter rubbish and the players will not stand for it".

 

And before you ask, yes I have done it, twice in working life - I've stood up and said "No, not doing that, it's wrong and it will not work", and in both cases I was fully prepared to take the consequences and in both cases I was subsequently proven to be right.

 

Professional Integrity, it is the death of corporate mediocrity.

 

All The Best

[JennyFlynn]

I do not think anyone is deliberately hating on the devs or waking up thinking "Gee, what will I do today? Oh hey, I think I will go onto the SWTOR forums and spew some hatred at Ben/Eric/Tait!". People have genuine concerns and grievances which they're more than free to express.

 

You know what would be worse? If no one had the care or energy left to even complain anymore. To be angry, to be upset. That is when it gets really bad but while people are still passionate enough to spew their discontent, there's a chance so let them. Some times harsh words and criticism are a necessary evil, something that needs to happen. A wake up call while we pray they hear it for once.

 

And I know it's not just Eric or Ben solely who said "Hey lets add some ridiculous RNG metrics to this system!" but they are the people chosen to represent BW in Live Streams and here on the forums so yes, our feedback will be aimed at them as they are our line of communication.

[GGblazed]

Look guys! I get that people hate tha RNG gearing! The galactic command system people seem to be okay with but I expected people to hate the RNG and that's fine! Get mad at them for the RNG.

 

BUT STOP! hating on them for ever other thing! for example the amount ofpeople in the thread about the rollback that are threatening to unsub because of it!

 

BUGS HAPPEN!

 

these things happens sometimes out of the devs control so get a grip and learn that sometimes things don't always go as you plan, I know you hate it, but don't you think the devs hate the rollback issue also?

 

Give them a break and give them time to fix it without your constand threats! ALSO! give them time to actually do their live stream tomorrow and in January before you start shouting insults once again.

 

if anything is gonna drive players from the game its the community!

 

see you have got it all wrong i dont hate the devs because of the rng system of gear i hate the devs becuase their fckn stupid *** fixes to exploits somone exploits the roll back the entire fckn server cause of a few pple ...

[Celise]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with it.

 

There's a thing called "personal responsibility" and there's another thing called "professional integrity".

 

The former means I take responsibility for what I do, even if told to do it by "higher ups".

The latter means that at times, I am forced to say No to those higher ups.

 

Edmund Burke once said that "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

 

I contend that "all that is necessary for the triumph of mediocrity is that good men say nothing".

 

Any Developer worthy of the title when faced with the outline for 5.0 would have stood up and said "hang on, that's madness, its utter rubbish and the players will not stand for it".

 

And before you ask, yes I have done it, twice in working life - I've stood up and said "No, not doing that, it's wrong and it will not work", and in both cases I was fully prepared to take the consequences and in both cases I was subsequently proven to be right.

 

Professional Integrity, it is the death of corporate mediocrity.

 

All The Best

 

your professional integrity doesn't mean much if your boss has no place for your no answer which is quickly followed by a p45/pink slip. be careful who you work for..

[LordArtemis]

^ This.

 

I believe it shouldn't be made personal, there have been cases where people have gone too far, but for the most part I see people genuinely trying to convey how they experience aspects of the game, what they like, what they don't like.

 

While it might be unpleasant for a developer to see a large crowd complain about the new feature they're so very proud of, they wouldn't know there were people with a problem if nobody spoke up.

 

It's up to BW to decide how to act on it, but we should be giving our opinions.

 

Exaclly. There is no need to get emotional over it on either side IMO, but the feedback is vital to the games health IMO.

[DarthSpuds]

your professional integrity doesn't mean much if your boss has no place for your no answer which is quickly followed by a p45/pink slip. be careful who you work for..

 

Yup, I know.

 

In one of the cases I was within a matter of weeks constructively dismissed, and then 2 weeks after that an audit by an external partner highlighted that what I had said was correct, the company was doing it wrong, they lost 2 multi-million £ contracts and were fined for being in breach of contract to those external partners.

 

Personally I don't want to work for a boss who is so insecure and so dismissive of my expertise that they'd sack me for pointing out they were doing it wrong.

 

99.999999% of the time "doing it right" is the most cost effective way of doing things.

 

Because if you do it wrong not only did you incur the costs of doing it wrong, at some point down the line you'll have to shoulder the costs of putting it right.

 

It is quicker, cheaper, more efficient and builds a better reputation if you just do it right first time.

 

All The Best

[keitzy]

I've lost so much in the server roll back.

5 million in purple grade 5 trophy gifts on getting a companion to level 50 which he is back at level 4 again,

4million in augment kit sales.

3 alacrity augments that sold.

2 ranks for the specialists in my odessen base.

300+ each of the level 10 Archeology node materials from gathering on darvanis.

3 Galactic Command ranks.

A piece of blue gear that was an upgrade to my 228 boots.

A Veteran mode chapter and the acheivement.

A pvp weekly and pvp daily.

A 46 hilt schematic.

A Void Catalyst crafting mat.

10k points in conquest.

 

And no compensation!!!!!!!!

 

So yeah I am really freakin angry at them atm. That's a lot of hard work down the drain. I already unsubbed but am trying to get my monies worth by still playing, still holding my breath they will fix the game. I don't even think I can continue playing anymore.

Edited December 7, 2016 by keitzy

[Celise]

Yup, I know.

 

In one of the cases I was within a matter of weeks constructively dismissed, and then 2 weeks after that an audit by an external partner highlighted that what I had said was correct, the company was doing it wrong, they lost 2 multi-million £ contracts and were fined for being in breach of contract to those external partners.

 

Personally I don't want to work for a boss who is so insecure and so dismissive of my expertise that they'd sack me for pointing out they were doing it wrong.

 

99.999999% of the time "doing it right" is the most cost effective way of doing things.

 

Because if you do it wrong not only did you incur the costs of doing it wrong, at some point down the line you'll have to shoulder the costs of putting it right.

 

It is quicker, cheaper, more efficient and builds a better reputation if you just do it right first time.

 

All The Best

 

perhaps, but not everyone will see things the same way you might and vice versa. sometimes it's better not to say anything and watch what happens, at least you can't be held to account for someone elses errors and when that audit comes.

 

however your professional integrity goes both ways, you may see that saying "no" is a good thing, but it could make you hard to sell to new employers if you use your former employers as a reference and they said that you ended up saying no to completing your job despite the audit, that could be an important thing that may turn away an employer from you if they found out you are picky about what you do while working.

[dr_mike]

Two in the last 24 hours if i'm not mistaken.

 

^^This is what concerns me. I;ve been playing all this time and finally maxed out the Rishi rep. Am I going to lose that?

 

I;ve gotten a few xmas tips already. That gog sale is looking mighty good right around now....

 

I've lost so much in the server roll back.

 

Just saw that. Lovely.

Edited December 7, 2016 by dr_mike

[martinbaker]

I'm sure the devs are big boys and girls and understand that people get upset when they drop the ball so comprehensively. They are professionals, or I assume they are professionals.

 

It's not like the reaction was unexpected - the beta testers no doubt told them it was not a smart idea, the community told them it was not a smart idea when they announced it. If they hadnt been living in a self imposed bubble of secrecy we could have told them how not smart it was earlier even. It wasnt a smart idea when they did a very similar system in 1.0 release, it wasnt a smart idea when their competitors tried it (but with actual content to sweeten the pill).

 

They are grown ups and should be able to take responsibility for ignoring all the big red flashing lights and plowing ahead anyway. I believe they had ample time to mentally prepare themselves.

[-Highsteel-]

I don't hate the DEVS, I pity them. As an Ironworker, my job is to build, in a sense like them. When the job is done I like to look back and go, I built that and feel proud. I'm pretty sure no DEV, has looked back at this game and felt proud. Everyone needs a job, so I don't blame them for not rocking the boat; pretty sure they are told not to engage us on issues either. Lawyers - Accountants - VP's of EA are creating this game, DEVS are stuck in the middle.

 

But yeah, DEVS, 5.0 - straight garbage, story is okay, everything else - junk. It's a WalMart Tier item you're making for EA.

[psikofunkster]

To the White Knight: FYI Develops are working right now not spending their time reading stupid threads. Edited December 7, 2016 by psikofunkster

[scardera]

the devs are killing the game at this rate swtor will not see 2018

[Andryah]

SWTOR is not a religion, political group or non profit organization. It is not a family member or close friend. It is a consumer product design to elicit profit.

 

It is therefore subject to the same kind of scrutiny and feedback that any for profit consumer product would be subject to in an open MMO market. I would even contend that this kind of feedback is vital to the products long term health and profitability.

 

So, keep the complaints and/or praise coming. Ignore the OP, and similar silly comments.

 

So, you are condoning hating on the devs? Nice.

 

There is a difference between giving constructive feedback and expressing concerns, and outright hateful drive by comments that serve no purpose other then to vent emotions. The first is fine, the second is not.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Andryah

[psikofunkster]

the devs are killing the game at this rate swtor will not see 2018

 

and there you go...that's what i've been suspecting since the last 2 operations ravs and tos were bugged and not fix until the next year... Killing the game little by little.

Edited December 8, 2016 by psikofunkster

[Andryah]

I do not think anyone is deliberately hating on the devs ...

 

You need to read more carefully then. Because there is a lot of hateful rhetoric directed at the devs in this forum right now. I stay out of most of it, because any attempt to reason with people just makes them turn and direct their hateful rhetoric at you as well.

 

People want their pound of flesh, and since it is an internet forum.. the best they can do is drive by hate posts.

Some people feel it's justified because they are frustrated. They are not justified.. and need to find more mature ways to manage their frustrations.

 

There are issues with 5.0 right now, and I have shared the view that a lot of it needs to be addressed. But what is not needed is the hyperbolic rhetoric of hate at the studio, or fellow players.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Andryah

[Eshvara]

You need to read more carefully then. Because there is a lot of hateful rhetoric directed at the devs in this forum right now. I stay out of most of it, because any attempt to reason with people just makes them turn and direct their hateful rhetoric at you as well.

 

Some people feel it's justified because they are frustrated. They are not justified.. and need to find more mature ways to manage their frustrations. People want their pound of flesh, and since it is an internet forum.. the best they can do is drive by hate posts.

 

While I agree with you, you can't really blame people for having had enough of this piss poor management of the game.

Lack of communication, poor decisions and a deal with it attitude isn't going to make anyone happy.

I try to be as reasonable as I can, but i can't blame people for being sour.

 

I'm not hating on the devs though, but they do need to shape the fck up. This isn't ok.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Eshvara

[Yyrmega]

Look guys! I get that people hate tha RNG gearing! The galactic command system people seem to be okay with but I expected people to hate the RNG and that's fine! Get mad at them for the RNG.

 

BUT STOP! hating on them for ever other thing! for example the amount ofpeople in the thread about the rollback that are threatening to unsub because of it!

 

BUGS HAPPEN!

 

these things happens sometimes out of the devs control so get a grip and learn that sometimes things don't always go as you plan, I know you hate it, but don't you think the devs hate the rollback issue also?

 

Give them a break and give them time to fix it without your constand threats! ALSO! give them time to actually do their live stream tomorrow and in January before you start shouting insults once again.

 

if anything is gonna drive players from the game its the community!

 

I agree with all your points. Some people here are downright insulting the development team and that is totally unacceptable.

 

But be warned, the community will attack you, even say that you are doing pro-positivity PROPAGANDA

 

Just when you thought you had heard it all...

[AscendingSky]

While I agree with you, you can't really blame people for having had enough of this piss poor management of the game.

Lack of communication, poor decisions and a deal with it attitude isn't going to make anyone happy.

I try to be as reasonable as I can, but i can't blame people for being sour.

 

I'm not hating on the devs though, but they do need to shape the fck up. This isn't ok.

 

The white knights need to realize there's a difference between hating a person and hating a product. A lot of people on these forums hate a lot of aspects of a product (TOR), and are expressing themselves appropriately. Many are threatening to quit using the product. However, no one is threatening the devs; the worst I've seen people say about them is that they are incompetent at their jobs, and that is directly related to the fact they're putting out a crap product.

 

If anyone was actually threatening the devs, or directing personal hatred or harassment at them, then I'd be the first to condemn it. But all anyone is doing right now is criticizing what they see as a shoddy product. If a game developer can't handle negative feedback about their game on a forum, they should find another line of work.

Edited December 8, 2016 by AscendingSky

[JennyFlynn]

You need to read more carefully then. Because there is a lot of hateful rhetoric directed at the devs in this forum right now. I stay out of most of it, because any attempt to reason with people just makes them turn and direct their hateful rhetoric at you as well.

 

People want their pound of flesh, and since it is an internet forum.. the best they can do is drive by hate posts.

Some people feel it's justified because they are frustrated. They are not justified.. and need to find more mature ways to manage their frustrations.

 

There are issues with 5.0 right now, and I have shared the view that a lot of it needs to be addressed. But what is not needed is the hyperbolic rhetoric of hate at the studio, or fellow players.

 

I may have missed something here and there in that case. I've seen anger, I've seen people say the devs need to get their act together (though less politely) but I don't think I've spotted pure hatred or if I did, simply didn't perceive it as such.

 

I've personally been rather annoyed with Charles' responses where Companions are concerned but I do not actually hate the man; I'm sure he's a perfectly nice guy out in the real world.

 

I just cannot fathom any normal and decent human being actually being hateful over this, towards other human beings. Aggravation, upset, frustration, that much I can understand but actual hatred? Guess I'm naive.

Edited December 8, 2016 by JennyFlynn

[Andryah]

While I agree with you, you can't really blame people for having had enough of this piss poor management of the game.

Lack of communication, poor decisions and a deal with it attitude isn't going to make anyone happy.

I try to be as reasonable as I can, but i can't blame people for being sour.

 

No disagreement that the devs need to do better. They do.

 

But going all hyperbolic and hateful in forum posts directed at the devs IS NOT the way to manage ones frustrations, much less to persuade the studio in any way. It does not help get key points on issues across to the dev team, as the hateful rhetoric probably just gets ignored. Plus, it tends to drown out forum members trying to actually convey issues and ideas to the studio in a calm and rational manner.

[Eshvara]

The white knights need to realize there's a difference between hating a person and hating a product. A lot of people on these forums hate a lot of aspects of a product (TOR), and are expressing themselves appropriately. Many are threatening to quit using the product. However, no one is threatening the devs; the worst I've seen people say about them is that they are incompetent at their jobs, and that is directly related to the fact they're putting out a crap product.

 

If anyone was actually threatening the devs, or directing personal hatred or harassment at them, then I'd be the first to condemn it. But all anyone is doing right now is criticizing what they see as a shoddy product. If a game developer can't handle negative feedback about their game on a forum, they should find another line of work.

 

I basically agree, people may not always be polite, but I'm not noticing hatred either.