[KotET SPOILERS] Regarding Chapter VIII — Some Dead Characters Must Stay Dead

[Stultophobe]

I already warned that there would be spoilers in the title. If you complain after reading this post, I'll just laugh at you.

 

So there's a lot of salt currently in production over the death of Vette/Torian (Mostly Vette, let's be honest), and rightly so. These characters were near and dear to many of our hearts, especially for the SW and BH.

 

And now, people want the BioWare writers to go dust off the old plot shield and bring them back.

 

And I'm sure they will.

 

This isn't the first time this has been an "issue". During beta, the player was able to kill off his or her own companions in Chapters I-III.

 

And people complained -- presumably because they don't like choices with consequences in a BioWare game. (You've got to be kidding me.)

 

Anyway, I'm writing this post as a writer. And I am here to explain that, when it comes to the business of story-telling, BioWare knows exactly what they're doing. You can criticize game mechanics all you want, but we're not talking about game mechanics. We're talking about story.

 

Let me illustrate the difference:

 

Arcann's boss fight is bugged -> You are upset -> BioWare fixes it

The Item Preview tab is broken -> You are upset -> BioWare fixes it (...or at least I wish they would)

Your favorite companion dies -> You are upset -> BioWare is counting on it

 

You are supposed to be upset. A good story will force you to experience a wide breadth of human emotion. The death of Vette or Torian was the difference between "just another boss fight" and fighting Vaylin. It was meant to poke at whatever sense of invulnerability you may have had; to hammer home the idea that you have something to lose and therefore something to fight for. If someone close to you dies in real life, it doesn't matter how much you beg -- they're dead. You have to live with it. Life would be cheap were this not the case, and so would Vette's/Torian's sacrifice. It would not be compelling. It would not be good storytelling. The manner in which Vette/Torian died is not ambiguous, and does not leave room for their return in a way that does not feel forced.

 

Yes, there is a problem here. But I believe it has more to do with our culture than with BioWare's ability to tell a story. Regardless, the former is not the subject of this post.

 

Vette/Torian should stay dead. Sorry.

 

On a different note, I would very much like to see the next expansion open with a funeral for either of these characters. It doesn't have to be much, but I do agree that there was not adequate closure.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Stultophobe

[MisterBlackJack]

I 100% agree with your post.

[stoopicus]

Agree 100%. The only thing worse than bringing back the victim of that scene would be to somehow write it such that the ghost of Revan is involved in resurrecting them.

[casirabit]

/agreed.

[gaelicvixen]

I also agree.

 

I chose to save Torian for a number of reasons and despite both my personal dislike of Vette and foreknowledge that the one I didn't rescue first would die, her death was still shocking. It was also really well done, and added to the reality of being at war with an enemy who gives no quarter.

[Excise]

I haven't really seen much in the way of calls for Torian or Vette to return.

[Stultophobe]

I haven't really seen much in the way of calls for Torian or Vette to return.

 

Read gen chat on Odessen.

 

This thread was also a response to a forum post.

[JennyFlynn]

I keep misreading your name as 'sl.utophobe' thinking what the hell do you have against sl.uts? sigh.

 

On topic though, I agree with your assessment. It was a gut wrenching choice and seeing it play out, the neck snap.. yikes. Brutal but I wouldn't want either of them revived.

[Stultophobe]

I keep misreading your name as 'sl.utophobe' thinking what the hell do you have against sl.uts? sigh.

 

Dirty, dirty mind.

[Darth_Tempus]

I agree that dead is dead.

 

Didn't make much sense to me though that my character as one of the most powerful force users in the galaxy just stood there and watched it happen

[ShadowOfSonic]

As far as the story goes? Yes, they should absolutely stay dead. Just like everyone else who has died over the course of the story (whether their deaths were due to player decision or otherwise).

 

However, what about people who had Vette or Torian at Influence 50? Remember when Koth left in Ch11? People were upset because [some of them] had him at Influence 50. Same with SCORPIO and Senya. With no way to predict who will die in the story (and not enough non-story comps like HK-51 and Nico to fill all 8 crew skill slots). Like with KotFE, any companions who die or are lost MUST be available at the Odessen terminal for gameplay purposes.

 

TL;DR: Story-wise? They must stay dead. Gameplay-wise? They need to be an option at the Odessen terminal.

[divinecynic]

As far as the story goes? Yes, they should absolutely stay dead. Just like everyone else who has died over the course of the story (whether their deaths were due to player decision or otherwise).

 

However, what about people who had Vette or Torian at Influence 50? Remember when Koth left in Ch11? People were upset because [some of them] had him at Influence 50. Same with SCORPIO and Senya. With no way to predict who will die in the story (and not enough non-story comps like HK-51 and Nico to fill all 8 crew skill slots). Like with KotFE, any companions who die or are lost MUST be available at the Odessen terminal for gameplay purposes.

 

TL;DR: Story-wise? They must stay dead. Gameplay-wise? They need to be an option at the Odessen terminal.

 

Totally agree. That's the whole point of the terminal after all.

[Stultophobe]

I agree that dead is dead.

 

Didn't make much sense to me though that my character as one of the most powerful force users in the galaxy just stood there and watched it happen

 

Vaylin has a greater command of the Force than the player character in terms of physical manipulation. Hard to argue otherwise.

[Stultophobe]

not enough non-story comps like HK-51 and Nico.

 

You only need one. HK-51 was the first comp I gifted to 50 for a reason.

[AngFour]

 

TL;DR: Story-wise? They must stay dead. Gameplay-wise? They need to be an option at the Odessen terminal.

 

They are.

 

There's two separate categories on the terminal now. One for missing Vanilla companions and one for companions lost during KotFE/KotET.

 

My Agent can get SCORPIO, Kaliyo, Senya, and Torian if so chooses. She doesn't, but she COULD. I think you have to finish all of KotET for Torian/Vette to be an option though.

Edited December 6, 2016 by AngFour

[Codedrago]

I agree that dead is dead.

 

Didn't make much sense to me though that my character as one of the most powerful force users in the galaxy just stood there and watched it happen

 

What would your force user of done? Stop time? Even with the force, you can't react to stop an action that occurs INSTANTLY. Especially when from what the scene looks like, Vaylin wasn't going to kill them and just wanted to lure you here.