Are CXP boosters a slap in the face?

[Radzkie]

Hahahahaha

 

It's P2W, but why does it matter and why is anyone surprised?

 

This is SWTOR. Look at the state of the game right now. We are paying for a chinese grinder with RNG boxes. LMAO. There's been no new raid for over two years. The last expansion was the smallest expansion I've seen in any AAA MMO.

 

My solace in this game is the story. I'm here for that, and to dip my toe in a few things till I get bored. Everyone else should do the same. No disappointment this way.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Radzkie

[Alexandrozingsw]

 

All the boosts do is gain 25% more experience points. Just the same as any other boost, DvL xp gear, guild boosts.

Everyone has access to them.

 

nope

xp boost is not equal to better gear at same level, only levels you faster

valor boost is not equal to better gear at same level

cxp boost is more chances to get better gear at same level with same activities

[Glower]

Why would they be any worse than XP or Valor boosts?

 

You now, i tell you something... It's a sub based game now, at least after level 70, you don't sell these things in subscription based games.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Glower

[leehambly]

If people are judging any financial outlay in the system for gaining gear as P2W, then its been P2W since XP boosts have been in the CM. The gate to end game gear, which for some reason seems to be the defining factor in this argument, is two fold from a playing perspective: opportunity and availability.

 

Simply, with skills and player ability aside, to be involved in the content that rewarded that gear, ie: Operations, you had to have a character available (ie: no lockouts) and a free space in a group. The free space has never been something you could buy, per se, even though ironically in-game you can them! But essentially that is something you had to make yourself available for...learning the content, getting in a group, etc... but any half decent raider will tell you, its about farming the gear... and to farm gear you need alts... and this is where the P2W has always been there... quick levelling, many multiple alts of the same class, so you can seamlessly fit in, to farm more gear... the parking of characters at certain boss levels, to speed the farming along for other people's alt.... etc etc... and then ofc there are the insta-60 and 65's. These "opportunities" have often been bought.

 

For me, the jury is out on whether it is P2W, simply because you still have to play the game to get into any of those opportunities to gain the loot and for me, that is the defining factor, any return is still dependant primarily on play.

[Fraah]

All the boosts get you something faster. There are unending levels of CXP to go through to gear up. Anything that makes it go faster is a good thing.

 

This is NOT pay to win. IMO. You're still not buying the actual gear and you still have to RNG and grind to get what you need.

 

Yeah, Thank God for Bioware seeing this huge CPX grind and taking pity on us, they saw that someone had set up this horrible system behind their back and have taken pity on us, letting us give them more money to make it a tiny bit less horrible!

 

What's that, Bioware set up this whole system? They calculated CPX boosts into the grind from the very start in order to drain more money from us subs? Don't be silly, no company with any integrity would do something that cynical....

 

Oh and while we can spend days arguing about it, of course there is a basic difference between XP boosters and CXP boosters and you can see it by the fact that no one ever complained when XP boosters were introduced...there I'd a reason for that...

[Rankyn]

Everybody drink!

[AscendingSky]

This is absolutely a slap in the face. This is absolutely pay to win. CXP boosters do not compare to XP boosters. You can get XP boosters FOR FREE just by doing in-game quests. I didn't have to buy a single one to use on my lastest alt.

 

CXP means you can pay money to get more gear faster, to get to higher tiers of gear faster. That is the definition of pay to win. You might not be buying the gear directly, but you're buying the boxes the gear comes in!

Edited December 6, 2016 by AscendingSky

[Severith]

If people are judging any financial outlay in the system for gaining gear as P2W, then its been P2W since XP boosts have been in the CM. The gate to end game gear, which for some reason seems to be the defining factor in this argument, is two fold from a playing perspective: opportunity and availability.

 

Simply, with skills and player ability aside, to be involved in the content that rewarded that gear, ie: Operations, you had to have a character available (ie: no lockouts) and a free space in a group. The free space has never been something you could buy, per se, even though ironically in-game you can them! But essentially that is something you had to make yourself available for...learning the content, getting in a group, etc... but any half decent raider will tell you, its about farming the gear... and to farm gear you need alts... and this is where the P2W has always been there... quick levelling, many multiple alts of the same class, so you can seamlessly fit in, to farm more gear... the parking of characters at certain boss levels, to speed the farming along for other people's alt.... etc etc... and then ofc there are the insta-60 and 65's. These "opportunities" have often been bought.

 

For me, the jury is out on whether it is P2W, simply because you still have to play the game to get into any of those opportunities to gain the loot and for me, that is the defining factor, any return is still dependant primarily on play.

 

You seem to be confused friend. Let me help you.

 

MMOs don't start when you make your character. An MMO really starts when you hit max level. Yep. That's when you actually start doing stuff that matters. Everything before then is fluff. In an mmo, a veteran players generally spend about 5% to 10% of their time leveling their characters, and the remaining 90%-95% of their time doing stuff at max level. There are exceptions, like people who just make alt after alt, or people like myself who intentionally make lower level characters who avoid exp and enjoy the game that way, but they are the minority.

 

The grind begins at max level. That's the truth of an mmo.

 

SWTOR is especially geared toward this philosophy. They give you free character tokens for level 60 and 65 characters. They have 12X exp days. The legacy system has 25+ passive perks to increase experience points gains. Joining a guild increases it even further.

 

In case you haven't figured it out yet, here is the simple truth. EXP IS NOT A PROBLEM IN SWTOR. You can take a toon from level 1-70 in a weekend.

 

Right now, COMMAND POINTS ARE A MAJOR PROBLEM IN SWTOR.

 

You see the difference between a exp booster and a command booster yet?

[leehambly]

You seem to be confused friend. Let me help you.

 

MMOs don't start when you make your character. An MMO really starts when you hit max level. Yep. That's when you actually start doing stuff that matters. Everything before then is fluff. In an mmo, a veteran players generally spend about 5% to 10% of their time leveling their characters, and the remaining 90%-95% of their time doing stuff at max level. There are exceptions, like people who just make alt after alt, or people like myself who intentionally make lower level characters who avoid exp and enjoy the game that way, but they are the minority.

 

The grind begins at max level. That's the truth of an mmo.

 

SWTOR is especially geared toward this philosophy. They give you free character tokens for level 60 and 65 characters. They have 12X exp days. The legacy system has 25+ passive perks to increase experience points gains. Joining a guild increases it even further.

 

In case you haven't figured it out yet, here is the simple truth. EXP IS NOT A PROBLEM IN SWTOR. You can take a toon from level 1-70 in a weekend.

 

Right now, COMMAND POINTS ARE A MAJOR PROBLEM IN SWTOR.

 

You see the difference between a exp booster and a command booster yet?

 

I don't appreciate the tone but I will leave that there.

So, you agree, getting those alt characters to an end game ready state in as quick and easy a fashion as possible is what it is/was all about. Having farm-ready alts... sod the 5-10% game time spent on levelling... how about 0%? There is no difference. This is nothing new. You are simply looking for reasons, you don't need reasons.

 

When XP boosts first were available, the levelling was nowhere near as quick as now. Not in the slightest. It was still a pain to grind up new alts, XP boosts were invaluable for assisting in that. Pithy patronising remarks are great and everything, but I'd rather have the memory of the game.

 

Likewise, in 4.0 it was possible to buy operations ready characters - you could be in end game content looting this gear within an hour of creating your account. How is that not P2W under these terms?

Edited December 6, 2016 by leehambly

[JennyFlynn]

While the term "slap in the face" tends to tickle my gag reflexes, I do somewhat agree. I saw the CM boosts coming from a mile away, pretty sure they even mentioned it during the live stream but what irks me right now is the timing of it. All weekend long we've had a storm of threads regarding the gold mob CXP nerf and come Monday they respond with adding the boost packs to the CM. That part just kinda bugs me and seems poorly timed on their part. Well, properly timed for them in a way but it feels dirty.

[JabbaWabbA]

If people are judging any financial outlay in the system for gaining gear as P2W, then its been P2W since XP boosts have been in the CM. The gate to end game gear, which for some reason seems to be the defining factor in this argument, is two fold from a playing perspective: opportunity and availability.

 

incorrect. regular xp boosts do not increase the rate at which you acquire gear boxes

[Darth_Advent]

I wouldn't call it a slap in the face just because we knew ahead of time from developer streams and musco posts that it was coming well in advance.

 

The existence of paid CXP boosts, however, is still questionable. One might only be paying for more chances in the same time period to gamble for endgame gear, but it's never before been true that we could pay for quicker access to BiS unless you count subscriptions lifting the operations cap.

[leehambly]

incorrect. regular xp boosts do not increase the rate at which you acquire gear boxes

 

They would speed up your ability to be involved in yet another operation run... ie: another chance at a /roll. Its the same... maybe less return on direct investment, but its no different.

 

Instant level 60 Operations ready characters of course, are definitely in the same category. I've been in group's that have spent time gearing day 1 newbs. This isn't new.

[ConradLionhart]

No I was actually thinking that we need it for specific content.

 

Like CXP booster for story, flashpoints, uprisings, etc. Like the xp boost for specific content.

 

I hope we can earn it in-game.

[Tsillah]

I don't like the term "slap in the face" because it's been overused, but I do agree to the general sentiment behind it.

 

Now, before 5.0 went live we didn't know yet how bad the drop rates were of proper endgame gear. Then we found out. Then they also nerfed CXP for gold mobs from 10 to 1.

 

So you tell me, when you kill a gold mob and get 1 CXP and you have a boost on so it's 1.2 CXP which is rounded down to 1 CXP. So it gains you nothing. This means it's another indirect nerf to heroics especially.

 

For other activities it will work better but the drop rates are so poor, that people who want to get a set of gear together will feel almost like they have to buy CXP boosters. I suspect they will sell well on the GTN as such.

 

Also it devaluates the meaning of a sub, because the sub gives you acces to the endgame system but it you'll need to spend more, a lot more on these boosts if you want to progress at a decent rate.

 

So all in all, it's a giant rip off in my view. Clearly this system was not made to improve the game but to find a new way to milk the paying customers. So yeah, in that sense it is a 'slap in the face' for paying customers.

 

And because of the low drop rate in the current system, it does reek strongly of pay2win. It isn't 100% pay2win to me but it's close enough for me to not like it.

[leehambly]

Now, before 5.0 went live we didn't know yet how bad the drop rates were of proper endgame gear. Then we found out. Then they also nerfed CXP for gold mobs from 10 to 1.

 

....

 

And because of the low drop rate in the current system, it does reek strongly of pay2win. It isn't 100% pay2win to me but it's close enough for me to not like it.

 

Do you know if the drop rate is different in the different tiers?

[Severith]

I don't appreciate the tone but I will leave that there.

So, you agree, getting those alt characters to an end game ready state in as quick and easy a fashion as possible is what it is/was all about. Having farm-ready alts... sod the 5-10% game time spent on levelling... how about 0%? There is no difference. This is nothing new. You are simply looking for reasons, you don't need reasons.

 

When XP boosts first were available, the levelling was nowhere near as quick as now. Not in the slightest. It was still a pain to grind up new alts, XP boosts were invaluable for assisting in that. Pithy patronising remarks are great and everything, but I'd rather have the memory of the game.

 

Likewise, in 4.0 it was possible to buy operations ready characters - you could be in end game content looting this gear within an hour of creating your account. How is that not P2W under these terms?

 

No, I don't agree with "getting those alt characters to an end game ready state in as quick and easy a fashion as possible is what it is/was all about" because it happened quickly, easily, and inevitably. I was clear in stating that the game actually begins after you're done leveling. Even at vanilla launch, people were max level in a few days. If you had trouble leveling back then, that's on you, it wasn't the general experience.

 

At the 4.0 launch subscribers were all given a free level 60 token. Then exp boosts were given out for people completing story chapters. I literally don't know anyone from 4.0 that didn't have at least 3-4 65th level characters.

 

As it has been pointed out earlier in this thread, even if exp boosts were a major advantage, their usefulness is finite. You're going to hit max level, sooner than later. Command boosts are items that you'll need to continually buy and use, even past command level 300, in order to gear up competitively.

 

Don't compare apples to oranges and then use that as a foundation for further arguments while not expecting some "tone". But I will leave that there.

[leehambly]

No, I don't agree with "getting those alt characters to an end game ready state in as quick and easy a fashion as possible is what it is/was all about" because it happened quickly, easily, and inevitably. I was clear in stating that the game actually begins after you're done leveling. Even at vanilla launch, people were max level in a few days. If you had trouble leveling back then, that's on you, it wasn't the general experience.

 

At the 4.0 launch subscribers were all given a free level 60 token. Then exp boosts were given out for people completing story chapters. I literally don't know anyone from 4.0 that didn't have at least 3-4 65th level characters.

 

As it has been pointed out earlier in this thread, even if exp boosts were a major advantage, their usefulness is finite. You're going to hit max level, sooner than later. Command boosts are items that you'll need to continually buy and use, even past command level 300, in order to gear up competitively.

 

Don't compare apples to oranges and then use that as a foundation for further arguments while not expecting some "tone". But I will leave that there.

 

Paint the past of the game in whatever colour you like...

 

Simply, the gate on end game gear was lockouts on your characters. Having more, however you got them gave you an advantage. Being able to buy these from the CM or being able to speed that process through boosts is nothing new. CXP boosts are extremely similar on a transaction level.

I'm not judging it one way or the other... but they are much the same. "Paid for" opportunities, as is being a sub vs F2P/Pref. It has always been there.

[Zhiroc]

Personally, I don't mind them at all. Probably wouldn't buy any though. I don't really care if people who have more time or money can get their gear faster. Doesn't affect my play at all. Edited December 6, 2016 by Zhiroc

[nhsknudsen]

Yes they are and we knew they would come, they had already been mentioned before in some stream.

 

That we, as players and consumers, are still here is the real slap in the face.

 

I've already unsubbed, running out of sub time soon. I won't be resubbing.

[Severith]

Paint the past of the game in whatever colour you like...

 

Simply, the gate on end game gear was lockouts on your characters. Having more, however you got them gave you an advantage. Being able to buy these from the CM or being able to speed that process through boosts is nothing new. CXP boosts are extremely similar on a transaction level.

I'm not judging it one way or the other... but they are much the same. "Paid for" opportunities, as is being a sub vs F2P/Pref. It has always been there.

 

I painted with facts. There were people who were level 50 in two days after the EA launch in vanilla. General population reach 50th on their first character within the first week. Exp was not a problem.

 

Simply, the large part of the supposed advantage gained by doing operations with multiple alts was negated by the fact that you had to gear those alts. Not doing so would force your team mates to carry you, and they suffer from the same lockouts that you do. The advantage, when all is said and done, was minimal.

 

I'm judging it one way. You're comparing something unnecessary and finitely useful for leveling with something that is necessary and infinitely useful in terms of competitive end game gearing. It is not the same.

[TyrionGraphiste]

Can't you earn them in the game?

 

You can't get it while playing, you have to pay to get it.

[leehambly]

I painted with facts. There were people who were level 50 in two days after the EA launch in vanilla. General population reach 50th on their first character within the first week. Exp was not a problem.

 

Simply, the large part of the supposed advantage gained by doing operations with multiple alts was negated by the fact that you had to gear those alts. Not doing so would force your team mates to carry you, and they suffer from the same lockouts that you do. The advantage, when all is said and done, was minimal.

 

I'm judging it one way. You're comparing something unnecessary and finitely useful for leveling with something that is necessary and infinitely useful in terms of competitive end game gearing. It is not the same.

 

Ok, the general population was at 50 within the first week? No, not this game dude. Some other game you are thinking about there. In the first week of this game, most people spent most of their time queueing to get in. Sorry, but you are talking rubbish.

 

When farming, you stopped (ie: your opportunities to loot were limited on a weekly basis) when you hit the lockouts. Gear was never a problem, not since the legacy gear has been available. And team mates who carry you is what guilds are all about. Having 4 lockouts when the rest of your group has 5 means you can buy that extra lockout with just 2000 cc, or go off and burn another ops ready char quickly so you can join them in the next week.

 

On the basis of a simple transaction viewed as: Hours spent versus reward opportunities available... its fairly simple. XP Boosts would have had an impact on some players (not all, but definitely some and definitely end game raiders), instant 60 chars definitely have had and CXP boosts will do.

 

Should not have to spoon feed this to you, you are apparently an experienced end gamer... and what do I know.

Edited December 6, 2016 by leehambly

[Alexandrozingsw]

I bought one, and is not much useful if you dont do pvp or uprisings constantly with a premade group non stop for the time that is active (ie fast content with good cxp/time ratio ).

for anything else you spend more time finishing the mission/heroic/daily/flashpoint/operation than gaining cxp so in the end my experience was like meh.

traditional xp boosts are constant this ones are functional at the end of the activity. (with the original 10cxp fro elites would be different but now 125% of 1 its rounded to 1)

as I see it this may open the door to a unbalanced pvp stage, like people group queuing and let the other team win fast to cash the cxp and then queue again until the desired cxp level. maybe a new type of win trading?

anyway with so many differences in gear and lots of pvers doing pvp I saw its hard to know if the team is really bad or want to lose fast

[leehambly]

I bought one, and is not much useful if you dont do pvp or uprisings constantly with a premade group non stop for the time that is active (ie fast content with good cxp/time ratio ).

for anything else you spend more time finishing the mission/heroic/daily/flashpoint/operation than gaining cxp so in the end my experience was like meh.

traditional xp boosts are constant this ones are functional at the end of the activity. (with the original 10cxp fro elites would be different but now 125% of 1 its rounded to 1)

as I see it this may open the door to a unbalanced pvp stage, like people group queuing and let the other team win fast to cash the cxp and then queue again until the desired cxp level. maybe a new type of win trading?

anyway with so many differences in gear and lots of pvers doing pvp I saw its hard to know if the team is really bad or want to lose fast

 

The understanding is that you will hoard the boss level cxp drops, then pop one of these, and pop the lot of your hoard. Maximise the benefit.

Edited December 6, 2016 by leehambly