RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

It's a return to 4.0's endgame gearing system. I think everyone agrees the pace of 4.0 endgame gearing was too rapid, to an extent that it reduced population from boredom. Now we will see if BW can find the right balance going forward. If they can and the casual gear lottery draws in new players, we'll all be complaining because there won't be much left to complain about.

how is this return of 4.0 though??? unassembled tokens drop 100% only on last bosses in raids, and that's 1 token per op rolled between 8 people 0.o.... and as for pvp fragments, we don't know what the exchange ratio is gonna look like

[Kurj]

how is this return of 4.0 though??? unassembled tokens drop 100% only on last bosses in raids, and that's 1 token per op rolled between 8 people 0.o.... and as for pvp fragments, we don't know what the exchange ratio is gonna look like

 

The exchange rate is just like 4.0, where they could tweak the comm costs and awards (which is what they should have done). As for the tokens/unassembled pieces, it depends how they work. If you need 3 specific tokens for a specific piece, then you're still hosed in PVE. If they are just generic tokens, then it's not much different than 4.0.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

The exchange rate is just like 4.0, where they could tweak the comm costs and awards (which is what they should have done). As for the tokens/unassembled pieces, it depends how they work. If you need 3 specific tokens for a specific piece, then you're still hosed in PVE. If they are just generic tokens, then it's not much different than 4.0.

eeee didn't you at least read the notes from the stream? 0.o

 

command crates are still earned from GCranks, and they're still random, BUT every crate drops a command token.

in PvE:

unassembled token (UT) from ops boss + command token from crates = 1 piece of set bonus gear depending what was your UT

 

in PvP:

you get fragments of UT based on win / loss and amount of medals in each ranked or unranked warzone.

X amount of UT fragments = 1 UT (here it is my understanding you get to pick which piece you want)

1 UT + command tokem = 1 piece of set bonus gear.

230 set piece will then have to be upgraded the same way as it was before.

i believe there are also some valor requirements, but i'm not sure what they are exactly.

 

for solo players:

you are welcome to continue playing the SWTOR casino grind or join in on PvE and PvP fun for faster gear lol

Edited December 16, 2016 by Hichitsuki-hime

[Aowin]

what do you think would work well for this inclusion thingie?

 

Quite simply, I think there needs to be a path to gear that isn't related to operations and PvP. It doesn't have to be as quick and efficient, but there should be some sense of determination. As it stands, those who don't PvP and don't run operations are left to the wolves. I do not believe that is right as BioWare is inevitably discriminating against a sizable population of the game. The steps BioWare is making are interesting, but more can be done for the purpose of inclusiveness.

[Bonzenaattori]

Well now you have that with a skewered learning path and gearing process. Enjoy

[Aowin]

Well now you have that with a skewered learning path and gearing process. Enjoy

 

One of the obvious, valid criticisms of this new move is adding clutter and complexity to a system that was meant to be basic and minimalist. What this attempts to achieve, a more defined path to gearing, also creates confusion and inaccessibility to those who may not be familiar with the game. I see this really more as a step backwards then forward, as it attempts to appease some while not really creating a true solution.

 

Now, again, if gear progression is still considerably slow based on how many command tokens this system requires per unassembled piece, there is still hope. I just see what BioWare is doing is confusing progression and they aren't providing any method for non-PvPers and non-raiders, which is problematic.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So many assumptions being made when we still don't know the amount of tokens we need.

 

That is the key to this whole system imo - if it's too high then this system isn't any more beneficial to me than the one we have right now. I still need to do a **** ton of grinding I'm not interested in.

 

See we hear a lot of anti RNG sentiment but really it's the excessive grinding and lack of fresh content that's going to hurt BWA in the pocket. Last year we had 2 forced grinds in a sense which was building the alliance and then DvL - now we've got GC and it's asking to grind the same content for the most part as the previous 2 grinds.

 

They need to remove the ridiculous concept of having to grind just to be able to do the content people want to do. It's clearly not working, player numbers are clearly well down.

 

It's like on one hand they want to fix the issue by putting in gear drops on operations and pvp to an extent then they ruin the entire thing by bloody adding tokens to the mix which means we still have to grind.

 

**** grinding.

[Kurj]

in PvE:

unassembled token (UT) from ops boss + command token from crates = 1 piece of set bonus gear depending what was your UT

lol

 

That's what I couldn't tell from the summary of the LiveStream. If the token drops are generic (i.e., you can decide which slot you want to upgrade), i think that would work. If not, I agree, PVEers are going to be hosed.

[Jamtas]

So many assumptions being made when we still don't know the amount of tokens we need.

 

That is the key to this whole system imo - if it's too high then this system isn't any more beneficial to me than the one we have right now. I still need to do a **** ton of grinding I'm not interested in.

 

See we hear a lot of anti RNG sentiment but really it's the excessive grinding and lack of fresh content that's going to hurt BWA in the pocket. Last year we had 2 forced grinds in a sense which was building the alliance and then DvL - now we've got GC and it's asking to grind the same content for the most part as the previous 2 grinds.

 

They need to remove the ridiculous concept of having to grind just to be able to do the content people want to do. It's clearly not working, player numbers are clearly well down.

 

It's like on one hand they want to fix the issue by putting in gear drops on operations and pvp to an extent then they ruin the entire thing by bloody adding tokens to the mix which means we still have to grind.

 

**** grinding.

 

The catch is grinding old content again. If new content was the grind, I think it would be a better situation. But asking players to grind after 4.0 old content grind, DVL old content grind and now GC old content grind with 5 new heroics add in called uprisings.

The old content has been milked to death. Can't just keep giving new rewards and more credits to grind the same old stuff while they work on developing CM pack after CM pack.

[Quraswren]

So many assumptions being made when we still don't know the amount of tokens we need.

 

That is the key to this whole system imo - if it's too high then this system isn't any more beneficial to me than the one we have right now. I still need to do a **** ton of grinding I'm not interested in.

 

See we hear a lot of anti RNG sentiment but really it's the excessive grinding and lack of fresh content that's going to hurt BWA in the pocket. Last year we had 2 forced grinds in a sense which was building the alliance and then DvL - now we've got GC and it's asking to grind the same content for the most part as the previous 2 grinds.

 

They need to remove the ridiculous concept of having to grind just to be able to do the content people want to do. It's clearly not working, player numbers are clearly well down.

 

It's like on one hand they want to fix the issue by putting in gear drops on operations and pvp to an extent then they ruin the entire thing by bloody adding tokens to the mix which means we still have to grind.

 

**** grinding.

 

Agreed very much. It's a combination of a number of things bw needs to fix before things get better. The massive grind is a problem. HAving to do that grind on old content with nothing new except uprisings is and was a terrible idea from the moment bw put it on paper. RNG to top all that off just made it even worse. Now bw adds in a new convoluted system to help gearing somewhat but it does nothing but lead back to the grind and given bws past, the cost of command tokens will be high because they do not want anyone to really escape the massive grind of GC and they want to make sure you still have to rely on GC and crates.

 

I'm telling you there is a CO leak in their building.

 

The catch is grinding old content again. If new content was the grind, I think it would be a better situation. SNIP.....

 

If we never agree on anything else know that we can agree on this. That is just one catch to bws problems with all this.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The catch is grinding old content again. If new content was the grind, I think it would be a better situation. But asking players to grind after 4.0 old content grind, DVL old content grind and now GC old content grind with 5 new heroics add in called uprisings.

The old content has been milked to death. Can't just keep giving new rewards and more credits to grind the same old stuff while they work on developing CM pack after CM pack.

 

Exactly. 4.0 wasn't much better with star fortresses either - they were all more or less the same but at that point they hadn't put quite as much "events/features" into making us grind the old content.

 

Now we have so everything feels old - surely a few new planets with daily areas wouldn't have gone a miss? Chuck some faction grind in there with the other grind to the new content and all of a sudden it's not quite as bad.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

That's what I couldn't tell from the summary of the LiveStream. If the token drops are generic (i.e., you can decide which slot you want to upgrade), i think that would work. If not, I agree, PVEers are going to be hosed.

nope, it's for a SPECIFIC piece of gear. Like Eric said: if Revan drops the headpiece, that's what u need to kill in order to get that headpiece lol.... eh, my bad, chance to ROLL on the headpiece x.x

Edited December 17, 2016 by Hichitsuki-hime

[Aowin]

nope, it's for a SPECIFIC piece of gear. Like Eric said: if Revan drops the headpiece, that's what u need to kill in order to get that headpiece lol.... eh, my bad, chance to ROLL on the headpiece x.x

 

This is good as BioWare still understands the importance of slowing down gear progression. Allow people to get the BiS gear too soon and then there will be even more complaints that there is nothing to do. The entire reason time sinks and "grinding" exist in MMOs is to provide the developers time to create new content so that players aren't constantly complaining about not having anything. Of course, some players will be impossible to please as they want new content 24/7. BioWare will have to please as many players as possible, which is what matters in the end anyway.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This is good as BioWare still understands the importance of slowing down gear progression. Allow people to get the BiS gear too soon and then there will be even more complaints that there is nothing to do. The entire reason time sinks and "grinding" exist in MMOs is to provide the developers time to create new content so that players aren't constantly complaining about not having anything. Of course, some players will be impossible to please as they want new content 24/7. BioWare will have to please as many players as possible, which is what matters in the end anyway.

 

Complaints there is nothing to do come from the FACT the only new things to do at end game are uprisings. Those are so quick and easy to master they are almost already old hat for those grinding through.

Beyond that the newest end game content ( aside from star fortress/EC which I don't count as end game content personally ) we have is now over 2 years old.

 

People don't complain about nothing to do because they gear too fast, they complain because there is literally nothing new and fun to do.

 

It's views like yours that BWA seem to share and have brought this game to the sorry state we currently find it in.

 

The only positive I can take from a thread like this is 99% of people disagree with you.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

gah, i'm vibrating with effort not to yell out spoilers >.> :D

 

it's .... a.... SPOILERRRRRRRRRR!!!

 

[Zasszz]

It's views like yours that BWA seem to share and have brought this game to the sorry state we currently find it in.

 

The only positive I can take from a thread like this is 99% of people disagree with you.

Both of them dont care. No amount of feedback or logic and reason will change their minds. Its like talking to a wall.

[Aowin]

The only positive I can take from a thread like this is 99% of people disagree with you.

 

It will truly be a eye-opening day for you once you realize you do not represent "99%" of players in this game. Honestly, if that were truly the case no one would be playing this game right now. Again, if the experience this game offers is not to your liking, you have no one but yourself to blame for sticking around. Any rational person who is not having fun would have left years ago.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

It will truly be a eye-opening day for you once you realize you do not represent "99%" of players in this game. Honestly, if that were truly the case no one would be playing this game right now. Again, if the experience this game offers is not to your liking, you have no one but yourself to blame for sticking around. Any rational person who is not having fun would have left years ago.

until january patch i feel i'll be doing minimal G.C. effort lol and trying to figure out if i can play the secret world..... all those zombies damn it >.> lol

oho oh oh oh i watched Rogue one, so awesome, much better than ep7 in my opinion:)

 

It's ... a ... ... SPOILER!!!

 

[Aowin]

until january patch i feel i'll be doing minimal G.C. effort lol and trying to figure out if i can play the secret world..... all those zombies damn it >.> lol

oho oh oh oh i watched Rogue one, so awesome, much better than ep7 in my opinion:)

 

It's ... a ... ... SPOILER!!!

 

That's your prerogative. There is plenty of other things to do other than just grinding gear in SWTOR.

 

Considering TFA was a copy/paste of ANH, Rogue One being better wasn't exactly a difficult task. All of the prequels were better than TFA. At least they were original films (whether you love or hate Jar Jar Binks).

[gabigool]

People don't complain about nothing to do because they gear too fast, they complain because there is literally nothing new and fun to do.

 

The fact that this even needs to be explained is scary.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It will truly be a eye-opening day for you once you realize you do not represent "99%" of players in this game. Honestly, if that were truly the case no one would be playing this game right now. Again, if the experience this game offers is not to your liking, you have no one but yourself to blame for sticking around. Any rational person who is not having fun would have left years ago.

 

You clearly have not paid a lot of attention to this thread then and noted the 99% of posters disagreeing with you. I MIGHT be slightly exaggerating but only by 9% give or take, feel free to do a count though chief.

 

Thanks though for one of my two favorite "I can't hold an argument to defend this game" responses when people criticize it - yes it's the "if you don't like it quit" argument everyone.

Yes, Aowin's argumentative ability in defense of this game has finally reached that utmost of low levels. What a shame.

[LordArtemis]

To be fair, I would guess that a very large group of players have at least a few complaints, and a sizable group quite a few though they continue to play.

 

I think that is the case with almost all online games, and this game is no exception.

 

I strongly doubt that the majority of players exist in bliss in this game. It has quite a bit of room for improvement across the board IMO.

 

However, it is also fair to say that the game is likely seen as quite a bit better than it was at launch at this point. Despite those that choose to deny the actual truth of the matter, most evidence supports the contention that the original design of this game was a failure in this market...that much is undeniable. Bioware has all but admitted this outright. And the original dev teams obvious arrogance did not help matters IMO.

 

But those days are long gone. They have demonstrated, from time to time, that they DO listen to the community on occasion. I would expect this was one of those times.

 

But like always, BIoware will likely put their own personal spin on any changes they make. Sometimes that creates issues in and of itself...I hope this will not turn out to be one of those times.

Edited December 18, 2016 by LordArtemis

[Aowin]

...

 

The point is no game is perfect. There will always be that one person who isn't pleased with something. The fact is many players will continue to play regardless of the recent changes. Some in this thread would have you believe the entire game is leaving, and that's just not reality. Most players are content and will continue to play the game.

 

RNG is here to stay. That's not going away. I know that's unsettling for some on these boards, but that's the new norm in SWTOR. BioWare is making tweaks and additions, but they aren't going to outright remove anything.

[Wayshuba]

The point is no game is perfect. There will always be that one person who isn't pleased with something. The fact is many players will continue to play regardless of the recent changes. Some in this thread would have you believe the entire game is leaving, and that's just not reality. Most players are content and will continue to play the game.

 

RNG is here to stay. That's not going away. I know that's unsettling for some on these boards, but that's the new norm in SWTOR. BioWare is making tweaks and additions, but they aren't going to outright remove anything.

 

Really. You do know this game had RNG in the v1.0-v1.6 era? You do know that the same arguments you are making now were made back then? You do know over 75% of players left the game then and BW was in very serious trouble as a result?

 

So. I will stick with the history of this game. We had a mass exodus in this game in the period mentioned above because of two main things - lack of end game content (what BW calls the Elder Game) and the RNG gearing in that period (which they had completely eliminated by v1.6). I don't think it is her to stay at all. I think BW is going to continue to put duct tape on it for a bit, but as the players keep bleeding, they will eventually come around to the exact same point they did before. As for the end game content, we are in the same boat but now it is lack of NEW end game content in over 2 years.

 

The only question is will they survive to that point. They don't have F2P to save them this time.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Wayshuba

[Aowin]

Really. You do know this game had RNG in the v1.0-v1.6 era? You do know that the same arguments you are making now were made back then? You do know over 75% of players left the game then and BW was in very serious trouble as a result?

 

So. I will stick with the history of this game. We had a mass exodus in this game in the period mentioned above because of two main things - lack of end game content (what BW calls the Elder Game) and the RNG gearing in that period (which they had completely eliminated by v1.6). I don't think it is her to stay at all. I think BW is going to continue to put duct tape on it for a bit, but as the players keep bleeding, they will eventually come around to the exact same point they did before. As for the end game content, we are in the same boat but now it is lack of NEW end game content in over 2 years.

 

The only question is will they survive to that point. They don't have F2P to save them this time.

 

75% of the player base left because they finished the story and the only endgame at launch was one broken operation. 75% of the player base did not leave because of RNG.

 

SWTOR has plenty of endgame content now unlike at launch. It may not be new for you, but it's new for plenty of newcomers and late adopters. KOTFE was the most successful expansion SWTOR has had and KOTET is very much following that same model. I don't think BioWare has anything to worry about, considering raiders left years ago and were only a small portion of the player base. Any raiders still here are beating a dead horse and hoping for content that isn't coming.

 

Galactic Command is here to stay. All you can expect or tweaks and alterations. Don't expect features to just be removed since a vocal minority does not agree with the system.