RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

You are incorrect, there are at least three ways of moving out of Group C which rely on player agency:

C1 - Players unsub and stop receiving any gear and stop playing. Each player that does so reduces the size of Group C.

C2 - Players unsub and stop receiving any gear. They continue to play [as preferred], gaining credits, but no GC crates. With credits, they can purchase the gear of their choice from the GTN. Again, this decreases the size of Group C.

C3 - Players continue to play and eventually get better gear. For any *finite* number of rolls, this isn't guaranteed, but if BW (as they have said they would) monitors the situation and takes action, players eventually move out of Group C.

C4 - Players in Group C never die, the universe (and the game) doesn't end, so every nonzero chance event eventually occurs.

 

to escape unlucky RNG:

-->stop playing - if i was gonna do that, i'd already done so don't you think?

--> unsub & play F2P (pref) - with how many restrictions there are on F2P it's simple cancer. it was that way when i started playing and i only had to play for a week or 2 or realize that no i didn't want to play with that many restrictions going on lol. also the cap on credit limit for F2P and pref i believe is quite small.....

-->spend millions on buying gear off the GTN - well yeah... if i had 100mil+ it MIGHT be a valid option, except not all of us are good at making money, so certainly not everyone can actually AFFORD buying gear of the GTN.

--> just continue on - well, at a certain point bad luck will annoy you to hell though... and yes they do say they're monitoring the situation and thinking about ways to improve.... i wonder how they didn't manage to realize this would happen before it happened? i mean there was the PTS period.... and it's common sense to know that for every lucky person there would be AT LEAST one unlucky one.... and hten again they keep saying they are thinking about new group content all the time... doesn't mean we actually see that much of that group content lol.

 

:D:D

then again that's just my opinion:D:D:D

[ivanhedgehog]

ever since i started playing this game, i've always wondered..... what is it exactly that makes this or that person a troll? like do i tell that the person i'm arguing with is in fact trolling me? 0.o

 

someone that doesnt really believe the position they are pushing, just trying to work people up, push their buttons.

They can generally never be shown they are wrong no matter how much evidence is shown that proves them wrong. They arent interested in the actual argument, just in arguing.

[Khevar]

You are such a pessimist, Khevar, I'm going to switch over to @AowinIsRight just as soon as I get my Tier 3 set.

I think want a t-shirt with that on it.

 

Edit: On second thought, it's a bit wordy. How about: "Khevar: Pessimist"?

Edited December 13, 2016 by Khevar

[Tsillah]

ever since i started playing this game, i've always wondered..... what is it exactly that makes this or that person a troll? like do i tell that the person i'm arguing with is in fact trolling me? 0.o

 

Good morning.

 

Well trolling is tricky. By itself a troll is someone who writes things specifically meant to provoke people into anger and basically is picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight.

 

This can be done by stating falsehoods as if they wer facts just to rile people up or to accuse people of things they didn't do at all for example.

 

What makes it tricky is the question of intent. When someone says something outrageous that provokes people, was this simply to provoke and pick a fight or does this person really believe it. And this is what can make it very difficult to distinguish trolls from people who staunchly and stubbornly maintain things that cannot be correct.

 

In the case of Aowin here there is this difficulty. In the back of my mind I still consider the possibility that he might be trolling, but I think that he is simply unable to negotiate. He will not move from his position even if it's clear he's flat out wrong about some things. I suspect that even though being wrong about something doesn't actually mean it devaluates his opinion as such, he probably fears it does and therefore he cannot budge. He is unwilling to admit obvious fallacies for fear of having to even slightly adapt his thoughts.

 

When he accuses the "whiners" (that is an emotional, subjective term by the way) of wanting to have BiS in 10 days or are "crying" (another emotional, subjective term) over that, he is factually wrong. It may even be that he doesn't know what BiS gear is. Some people believe that a piece of gear is BiS when it has a set bonus, but Best in Slot means the best available in the game. That would now be the legendary gear that I suspect doesn't even drop in tier 1 and tier 2 gear boxes. So not only is he using emotional stabs, which could be considered troll like behaviour, he is also presenting falsehoods as facts. He also is unable to see the topic from another player type's point of view. Anyone who tries to prove that someone is wrong about what they like and want in the entertainment business lacks a certain amount of empathy.

 

Tastes and likes are not scientific so there is nothing to be proven. You might be surprised that people like certain things as I am surprised people might like this RNG thing, but I realise and accept this and do not try to tell them they are wrong. I am just telling BWA that I do not like it and will not play the game like this. I have stated various times that I am happy for those who like it enough to play it.

 

Now from my point of view, the current cadence is that SWTOR gets a new expansion about once a year. So when I have about 20 characters I'd like to gear up, I have to look at what I can do in a year's time. If it takes me two weeks to gear a toon in baseline optimised 230 gear then I need 40 weeks to complete this.

 

If it is two months per character (as it looks now) without the guarantee that it will even happen. I will not be able to gear up more than 6 characters.

 

So from my point of view, 2 weeks of playing a fair amount of hours, say 30+ per week should result in a character being geared because my preferred activity in SWTOR is gearing my characters. As per the RNG set up in GC, I will not be able to achieve what I would like to achieve. So I won't play it.

 

As soon as people start calling that bull because I don't need to gear up 20 characters, they are automatically missing the point. It's what I like to do. Games are not about need but want. It's game. And if the game changes to the point that you cannot do what you like to do anymore even though you could do it before, then it stops. There is nothing to discuss.

 

Also this idea that critical people hate everything since KotFE and want the game to fail are all generalisations. There are a couple of people who may have said that, but I certainly never did and many other posts I saw are the same. They don't like the lengthy RNG process but don't have a problem with the general set up and often like the KotET story. So again falsehoods.

 

So when it's clear that I don't want SWTOR to die, that I like the KotET and just really don't like the RNG gearing in the current way, then why do people like him insist on those points? Especially this Furh guy was strong on that.

 

I do not know for sure if these guys are trolling or just too stubborn to admit they could've overgeneralised or made statements that were incorrect. I also don't know why Aowin can keep insisting that he knows the will of BWA. He doesn't seem to be understanding the difference between knowing and believing and therefore rejects the mere possibility that his interpretation could be wrong.

 

It's this stubborness in the face of facts and reality that makes him look like a troll because it infuriates people for obvious reasons. But is he a troll by design or his he simply unable to admit even the smallest mistake?

 

He said something about people needing to get back on topic because the discussion was fruitful up to then. It wasn't. People were stuck in their camps, repeating themselves. That's not fruitful unless you want to include bitter fruits. The thread needed comic relief simply because it wasn't going anywhere, just in circles. I woulldn't mind if he explained why he thinks this thread was fruitful when people were just trying to get to 1000 posts. I'd actually really like to know if he sees something positive there, because I am open to that. Just not expecting him to come up with anything that holds any water.

[JennyFlynn]

-wall of truths-

 

I'm just gonna slap a massive 'like' sticker onto your chest and move on.

[Frenesi]

ever since i started playing this game, i've always wondered..... what is it exactly that makes this or that person a troll? like do i tell that the person i'm arguing with is in fact trolling me? 0.o

 

It's about intentions mostly. Some people disagree with something because they actually believe it's wrong, and are ready to defend their position till the second coming. Trolls disagree just for the sake of it, to produce argument with no purpose, annoy people and/or practice intellectual superiority.

 

"Fat" trolling is pretty obvious - it's usually good old "you all suck" in different forms. "Thin" trolling is often indistinguishable from genuine argument. However, since troll doesn't aim to ACTUALLY have discussion, he often employs specific tactics to keep argument going, like:

 

Ignoring opponent's counterpoints to statements

Twisting and turning opponent's words against him

Suddenly changing subject to derail discussion, only to tell opponent to stop derailing discussion 4 comments later

Calling opponents on making assumptions...

 

Oh for ****s sake, do I need to describe this entire thread?

[eartharioch]

I think want a t-shirt with that on it.

 

Edit: On second thought, it's a bit wordy. How about: "Khevar: Pessimist"?

 

You can have either one you want. Here's what to do:

1) Get a blank T-shirt

2) Put it in a box

3) Open the box when Group C is empty

 

I predict a 100% chance that the T-shirt will say whatever you want it to say. Caveat, opening the box early may cause unpredictable results. Welcome to the new world of "Everything I say is true unless you can prove me false." Debating is *so* much easier this way.

[Khevar]

3) Open the box when Group C is empty

I almost spit water on my keyboard ...

Edited December 13, 2016 by Khevar

[eartharioch]

I think want a t-shirt with that on it.

 

Alternately: How about #JoshuaWasRight

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Good morning.

Well trolling is tricky...*snip*

He said something about people needing to get back on topic because the discussion was fruitful up to then. It wasn't. People were stuck in their camps, repeating themselves. That's not fruitful unless you want to include bitter fruits. The thread needed comic relief simply because it wasn't going anywhere, just in circles. I wouldn't mind if he explained why he thinks this thread was fruitful when people were just trying to get to 1000 posts. I'd actually really like to know if he sees something positive there, because I am open to that. Just not expecting him to come up with anything that holds any water.

 

Good morning to you too =) thank you very much for explanation =) Having read the post i'm also unsure if we're being trolled or just unlucky to have an opponent who's very unyielding in his stance and unwilling to allow the other point of view to be as anything other than an annoyance lol.:D

 

as far as RNG and dealing with RNG i think it would work out well like this.

---> instead of specific set pieces we should have unassembled tokens drop from crate. just like pieces drop now, but with the ability to decide which SB we want =)

---> allow HM and NiM raids to drop SB tokens instead of CXP;

---> let PvPers earn some sort of tokens that can be cashed in for unassembled SB piece.

this way you can get SB from raids, or PvP or if neither is your thing or you want some variety you can still grind your GC ranks :D

 

or alternatively allow tier 1 pieces to be bought for X amount of credits once your command rank goes into tier 2; tier 2 pieces would be available when you're tier 3. and at rank 300 you are able to buy tier 3 pieces :D:D

 

either one of those solutions would allow to overcome mega-bad RNG lol. and be a bit more alt-friendly :D

Edited December 13, 2016 by Hichitsuki-hime

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I use the term "trool" for this...troll+tool

hmmmm that kinda makes sense i guess. though, i wouldn't really say tool applies in this case, he does show a good written language most times and unlike Furh for example doesn't quite look down on people as much (again this is an opinion that formed reading his posts in our RNG threads cauldron. and more often than not that guy is quite snappish towards others. i might have formed a false opinion there of course and if so i apologize. just comparing the 2 lol).:D

 

P.S.:: i do like your sig btw

Edited December 13, 2016 by Hichitsuki-hime

[Hichitsuki-hime]

eee wow. instead of editing my post, i accidentally quoted it x.x kill me now lol. :D:D Edited December 13, 2016 by Hichitsuki-hime

[eartharioch]

hmmmm that kinda makes sense i guess. though, i wouldn't really say tool applies in this case, he does show a good written language most times and unlike Furh for example doesn't quite look down on people as much (again this is an opinion that formed reading his posts in our RNG threads cauldron. and more often than not that guy is quite snappish towards others. i might have formed a false opinion there of course and if so i apologize. just comparing the 2 lol).

 

I guess it depends on how you use "tool"... I don't associate the word with a lack of intelligence per se, but rather a lack of independent will, more akin to "corporate stooge" or "corporate shill". Aowin's drivel, while grammatically correct and polite, is pretty much what I would expect from somebody spouting a party line. He flat out ignores any and every intelligent, rational objection to what he says and simply restates "his" "opinion" as if moving a few words around can change their meaning. See also, "True Believer"

Edited December 13, 2016 by eartharioch

[Frenesi]

Apparently, religious faith will be replaced not by science, as many feared, but by corporate devotion.

 

Cyberpunk is upon us!

[eartharioch]

P.S.:: i do like your sig btw

 

First time I've ever seen that, but no regrets...other than I spent 15 minutes trying to find out if there was a real Dr. Rhapsody so I could add a link to the original in my sig.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

First time I've ever seen that, but no regrets...other than I spent 15 minutes trying to find out if there was a real Dr. Rhapsody so I could add a link to the original in my sig.

lol no clue i just remembered the song being in that show :D ... so was there?

[eartharioch]

lol no clue i just remembered the song being in that show :D ... so was there?

Not that I could find, but check out my updated signature...

Edited December 13, 2016 by eartharioch

[Aowin]

So, anybody wants to make fun of Aowin, now that, according to Bioware, RNG system is not so perfect, or should we just let this die?

 

Comments like this are pointless, offensive, and detrimental towards the actual issue. Nothing about Galactic Command or RNG is inherently bad or wrong. BioWare, as we've always known, was going to make adjustments and tweaks. This has been something we have been aware of since the original post. I happen to agree there should be some "finality" in which we obtain gear. I just do not agree with the rhetoric that we need to "roll things back" because many have claimed 4.0 was "perfect."

 

So please, if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all. Anything that does not comport with the ToS will be addressed and handled by moderators. This is basic manners, folks. We are all here for the same thing. Lets act like decent individuals and not resort to petty remarks.

[Kawiki]

Comments like this are pointless, offensive, and detrimental towards the actual issue. Nothing about Galactic Command or RNG is inherently bad or wrong. BioWare, as we've always known, was going to make adjustments and tweaks. This has been something we have been aware of since the original post. I happen to agree there should be some "finality" in which we obtain gear. I just do not agree with the rhetoric that we need to "roll things back" because many have claimed 4.0 was "perfect."

 

So please, if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all. Anything that does not comport with the ToS will be addressed and handled by moderators. This is basic manners, folks. We are all here for the same thing. Lets act like decent individuals and not resort to petty remarks.

 

LOL. I hope you are in politics. If not, you should be.

[curulz]

You can have either one you want. Here's what to do:

1) Get a blank T-shirt

2) Put it in a box

3) Open the box when Group C is empty:(

 

1. Cut a hole in a box

2. Put some junk in that box

3. Make em open the box

 

That's the way they do it, BioWare Junk in a Box!

[Hichitsuki-hime]

LOL. I hope you are in politics. If not, you should be.

careful, he might report u for being rude lol

but lol. piggy farm 5CXP per mob down from 20. at the same time you get 20 CXP per snow-covered parcel. Soo like.... what was the point of changing one with the other? 0.o to add another RNG thing?:D

[Frenesi]

Comments like this are pointless, offensive, and detrimental towards the actual issue. Nothing about Galactic Command or RNG is inherently bad or wrong. BioWare, as we've always known, was going to make adjustments and tweaks. This has been something we have been aware of since the original post. I happen to agree there should be some "finality" in which we obtain gear. I just do not agree with the rhetoric that we need to "roll things back" because many have claimed 4.0 was "perfect."

 

So please, if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all. Anything that does not comport with the ToS will be addressed and handled by moderators. This is basic manners, folks. We are all here for the same thing. Lets act like decent individuals and not resort to petty remarks.

 

Oh please. Any discussion died at page 20. After that it was just rehearsing the same thing over and over.

 

Also, are you really that unable to take a joke? Wow. You take those forums way too serious.

[Khevar]

@Aowin,

 

In case you missed this, it bears repeating. As it specifically speaks to the premise of this thread, which is in favor of the RNG nature of Galactic Command.

What I care about is the preservation of Galactic Command and the continued commitment to slowing down gear progression considerably.

For what it's worth, I don't personally have a problem with the general idea behind Galactic Command. The idea that one is not limited to a specific set of activities to obtain good gear is, in my opinion, worth preserving.

 

Now, as far as slowing down gear progression considerably, I'm willing assume purely for for the sake of the argument that this is a desirable goal.

 

HOWEVER, this leads me to point out the fact that GC being accompanied by RNG will result in 3 distinct groups:

 

1. Group A will obtain gear at Bioware's target rate.

2. Group B will obtain gear MUCH FASTER due to "lucky dice rolls:"

3. Group C will obtain gear MUCH SLOWER due to "unlucky dice rolls"

 

And note, there is no player agency involved in moving out of Group C.

 

It doesn't matter if they become a more skilled player. It doesn't matter if they change their primary role from dps to healer or tank. It doesn't matter if they read class guides, or practice. They're just unlucky, and there's nothing to be done.

 

Meanwhile, the Group A players are gearing up "too" fast. Suddenly this theoretically desirable goal of "slowing down gear progression" goes out the window (for that group).

 

This is not a desirable situation.

[Vember]

So, if someone disagrees with you then that person is automatically a troll?

 

imo, Aowin has been articulate and civil in expressing his opinions. So, attacking him because you don't like his ideas/opinions is only saying a lot about yourselves.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Vember]

inb4; "Well actually I did predict they would make changes to the system in the future.. blah blah blah meoooow zoom."

 

He did, many times, we all did. Just goes to show you guys don't actually read what he posts before you start slamming him.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Vember