Musco opens 4 crates at level 90+ ZERO set gear

[Zhedzaban]

There is nothing minor about RNG end game gearing. That is also not a new concept. It's never good for the gamer. Only the "house" as you continue to pull that slot machine handle.

 

There is nothing minor about such little new content. Not having a lot of content at end game is nothing new to SWTOR either. They learned that lesson at launch or at least should have.

 

The open minded time has long past.

 

But you (and others) have been close minded about the changes since they were announced. You have quickly condemned the game before trying it. Who knows, you may be right and it all sucks and I'll hate it. But until I have a chance to experience the changes first hand I'll keep an open mind. It's called being reasonable.

[Quraswren]

Sorry, but Bioware are too busy giving you the space PvP, monthly updates and making old content relevant again like you asked for to do any of the above.

 

And like I said, your dilusional mind seems to have skewed things like bw does.

 

We did ask for space pvp but that was only part of it. It was asked to be wide open and free flight, not instances. Another bw mistake.

 

Another warping of what players asked for was monthly updates but again, not just story. bw and gamers learned log again story would never last long enough.

 

As far as making old relevant content. They took some minority concept and pushed it through like a ton of gamers wanted it when the reality is, few gamers want old content. They pay for new content. Old content is and always will be historically disliked by mmo gamers. It shows a massive laziness in the game developers and designers. Kinda like what was thought about SWTOR when down leveling was brought in to pretend we had something new.

 

Again, another evil genie version of what was asked for instead of what was really asked for.

 

But you (and others) have been close minded about the changes since they were announced. You have quickly condemned the game before trying it. Who knows, you may be right and it all sucks and I'll hate it. But until I have a chance to experience the changes first hand I'll keep an open mind. It's called being reasonable.

 

Why would anyone be open minded about RNG. If you are a gamer at all you know of RNG and just how bad it can be. There is no adjustment bw can make that turns RNG good or acceptable. Of course gamers would be closed minded to that kind of change. We're gamers. We have seen all kinds of RNG over the years. SWTOR will be no different as it will be stacked against you. Thats why they use it in the first place.

 

It should be condemned as we had a perfectly acceptable gearing system that should have been adapted to command rankings.

 

There isn't a single aspect of RNG end game gearing that entertaining at this point in SWTOR life cycle.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Quraswren

[AshenK]

But you (and others) have been close minded about the changes since they were announced. You have quickly condemned the game before trying it. Who knows, you may be right and it all sucks and I'll hate it. But until I have a chance to experience the changes first hand I'll keep an open mind. It's called being reasonable.

you don't get it do you.

 

bioware has shown that they do not care about the community who has been here. they slap us in the face time after time and its not just bioware others are doing it too. its high time we put an end to this we are the community and we have the power.

 

stop buying cartel stuff.

 

stop paying a monthly sub.

 

start demanding real end game content and updates to bring this game more in line with the great old mmos like wow and swg.

[Zhedzaban]

Guess we can be glad Swtor didn't decide to put legendaries into the game like WoW, ha

 

True that! Finally got my first legendary last week and it was for the wrong spec

 

As horrid as the rng is for wow, I still managed to gear my main enough for heroic raiding without too much difficulty and just playing the game. The "end of the world" wailing from some forum posters here make me laugh.

[Zhedzaban]

Why would anyone be open minded about RNG. If you are a gamer at all you know of RNG and just how bad it can be. There is no adjustment bw can make that turns RNG good or acceptable. Of course gamers would be closed minded to that kind of change. WE're gamers. We have seen all kinds of RNG over the years. SWTOR will be no different as it will be staked against you. Thats why they use it in the first place.

 

It should be condemned as we had a perfectly acceptable gearing system that should have been adapted to command rankings.

 

There isn't a single aspect of RNG end game gearing that entertaining at this point in SWTOR life cycle.

 

A few months ago I would have agreed with you completely. But having played wow Legion and experienced its rng, my fears are not as profound as everyone else. Do I like it? Not really, but I can work with it and as long as I enjoy the game I don't really notice it tbh.

[Quraswren]

A few months ago I would have agreed with you completely. But having played wow Legion and experienced its rng, my fears are not as profound as everyone else.

 

After playing wow my worries stayed in place. RNG really is just some bad design and it's just not used for gamers. Only the business.

 

Do I like it? Not really, but I can work with it and as long as I enjoy the game I don't really notice it tbh.

 

So you tolerate it? Thats fine, we all tolerate many things. RNG is just something I have disliked ever since we used to get Shamen gear in BWL and Alliance couldn't even be Shamen at the time. The RNG in wow is pretty bad in my eyes.

 

RNG gearing after the gearing system SWTOR had is idiocy on BWs part. They could have adjusted the current gearing system into command ranks as GC that has potential. RNG does not.

[Swtorevolution]

You have quickly condemned the game before trying it.

 

Eloquently put.

 

And like I said, your dilusional mind seems to have skewed things like bw does.

 

We did ask for space pvp but that was only part of it. It was asked to be wide open and free flight, not instances. Another bw mistake.

 

It is wide open and free flight.

 

Another warping of what players asked for was monthly updates but again, not just story. bw and gamers learned log again story would never last long enough.

 

Which is asking for more than what Bioware has the resources to produce.

 

As far as making old relevant content. They took some minority concept and pushed it through like a ton of gamers wanted it when the reality is, few gamers want old content.

 

Hard to get specific numbers on how many players want what, when you're just looking at forum posts.

 

Old content is and always will be historically disliked by mmo gamers.

 

No, just by millennials.

 

There isn't a single aspect of RNG end game gearing that entertaining at this point in SWTOR life cycle.

 

I'm looking forward to not knowing what I'm going to get in my command crates.

 

you don't get it do you.

 

bioware has shown that they do not care about the community who has been here. they slap us in the face time after time and its not just bioware others are doing it too. its high time we put an end to this we are the community and we have the power.

 

stop buying cartel stuff.

 

stop paying a monthly sub.

 

start demanding real end game content and updates to bring this game more in line with the great old mmos like wow and swg.

 

If Bioware doesn't care about the community as you say, what good would it do to stop paying them? Wouldn't they just shut the whole game down instead of suddenly having a change of heart?

[Quraswren]

It is wide open and free flight.

 

Seems you don't actually play it then. It has a rather small playing field.

 

Which is asking for more than what Bioware has the resources to produce.

Then they didn't actually fullfill that request did they? Seem you are mistake again. Kind alike the majority of that list you posted. Asked for things that didn't get done. And it doesn't seem to big a request or past their resources since they did do both for SoR. What happened? They get lazy?

 

Hard to get specific numbers on how many players want what, when you're just looking at forum posts.

Who needs numbers when it's historically accurate gamers hate old content and hate it when game companies try to spin old as new.

 

No, just by millennials.

Actually damn near everyone but a small few I'd bet.. I'd wager few like to pay money month to month to see old content again and again. Kinda why SWTOR is suffering a bit in subs now. Too much old, not enough new. Gamers hate old content pushed as something new to do as they should.

 

I'm looking forward to not knowing what I'm going to get in my command crates.

Some like to gamble. After having the gearing system SWTOR has had for years and how well it worked. It's not something I'm looking forward to. There are no redeeming aspects about RNG gearing.

 

 

 

If Bioware doesn't care about the community as you say, what good would it do to stop paying them? Wouldn't they just shut the whole game down instead of suddenly having a change of heart?

 

Big business getting in the way of good gaming along with greed. That usually keeps things pushed till the very last drop is squeezed out.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Quraswren

[Exly]

But you (and others) have been close minded about the changes since they were announced. You have quickly condemned the game before trying it. Who knows, you may be right and it all sucks and I'll hate it. But until I have a chance to experience the changes first hand I'll keep an open mind. It's called being reasonable.

 

I never tried stepping out of an airlock into the cold hard vacuum of space while naked either, but I am pretty sure that if I did, things would end badly for me. Does that make me close minded for not wanting to try it before deciding whether or not I would like doing that?

 

Some things are so obvious as to their outcome that it is not necessary to try them first, and rng gearing is one of those things. Using math to model the system, a set of statistical probabilities can be found that will predict a range of likely outcomes. You don't need to actually experience the changes to know that they suck, you just have to put a little thought into it.

[Zhedzaban]

you don't get it do you.

 

bioware has shown that they do not care about the community who has been here. they slap us in the face time after time and its not just bioware others are doing it too. its high time we put an end to this we are the community and we have the power.

 

stop buying cartel stuff.

 

stop paying a monthly sub.

 

start demanding real end game content and updates to bring this game more in line with the great old mmos like wow and swg.

 

Dude please, listen to yourself.

 

BW do not slap people in the face. They create a product that people will either consume or don't. We are guests in their game, and we are free to leave at any time.

 

To stop supporting the game financially will just see it die, nothing more. If we all take your advice, we might as well pack our bags now and move on.

 

Swtor launched as a wow clone, and failed miserably. Why play a wow clone when you can just play wow. BWs only hope was to take swtor in a different direction and try to hold a niche audience, which it has. Seriously, if BW listened to half the people on these forums the game would have folded years ago.

[Zhedzaban]

I never tried stepping out of an airlock into the cold hard vacuum of space while naked either, but I am pretty sure that if I did, things would end badly for me. Does that make me close minded for not wanting to try it before deciding whether or not I would like doing that?

 

Some things are so obvious as to their outcome that it is not necessary to try them first, and rng gearing is one of those things. Using math to model the system, a set of statistical probabilities can be found that will predict a range of likely outcomes. You don't need to actually experience the changes to know that they suck, you just have to put a little thought into it.

 

No your wrong. you are confusing what is fact with what is your perception. Come back to me a month after the game launches and I'll be more open to your opinion. Until then everything is just perception bias.

 

But even if you are totally correct, and the new system is horrible and the rng is too unforgiving, BW can always tweak it or worse case scenario go back to a traditional gearing system. My bet is, an overwhelmingly large number of players will accept the changes and just play. My perception bias is based on playing wow legion the last few months and seeing players response to rng first hand.

[Quraswren]

No your wrong. you are confusing what is fact with what is your perception. Come back to me a month after the game launches and I'll be more open to your opinion. Until then everything is just perception bias.

 

Actually not entirely true. It's not just perception. You can do a little bit of math and get a damn good educated idea about how RNG in SWTOR will be. Hell, looking at what musco got at level 90 should concern you as it is.

 

My bet is, an overwhelmingly large number of players will accept the changes and just play.

After years of the system we had and moving to RNG end game gearing now. I'm going ot disagree with you there. I'm thinking the opposite.

 

My perception bias is based on playing wow legion the last few months and seeing players response to rng first hand.

 

My perception of legion gearing suck because of the RNG on so much. Hell, if I read just the forums it would look like this:

More RNG loot in Legion. {insert bad word]

Lets play a casino -Legion rng gearing loot

PLEASE no more RNG items in Legion

RNG based, where you are praying to the almighty RNGeesus

Legion: More RNG!!!

Rng gear stats in legion

 

All negative. There is a reason gamers hate and dislike RNG gearing. there isn't a reason to be opened minded about something we know how it works and why it's used.

[Zhedzaban]

My perception of legion gearing suck because of the RNG on so much. Hell, if I read just the forums it would look like this:

More RNG loot in Legion. {insert bad word]

Lets play a casino -Legion rng gearing loot

PLEASE no more RNG items in Legion

RNG based, where you are praying to the almighty RNGeesus

Legion: More RNG!!!

Rng gear stats in legion

 

All negative. There is a reason gamers hate and dislike RNG gearing. there isn't a reason to be opened minded about something we know how it works and why it's used.

 

I'm not arguing that everyone loves rng. It's self evident that most people hate it including me. My point is that players accept it for what it is and keep playing. Some do it grudgingly, others learn to cope with it. But never forget, gearing your toon is only part of the overall mmo experience. If rng is enough to make you want to unsub, then there probably wasn't much keeping you here in the first place.

[TrixxieTriss]

Citation required.

 

It's not a better system for casuals. It's not a worse system either. Currently casuals (and all players for that matter) are limited by what difficulty ops they can do. In 5.0 they'll only be limited by time.

 

And yes I was talking about the ability to do SM ops. And unless there's some massive difference in layout between SM and HM/NiM ops that I'm not aware of, they aren't missing out on anything by just doing SM ops.

 

What do you mean by citation, are you the forum police now. Am I not allowed to voice my contempt or opinion. I did nor break any rules by what I said.

 

You also still missed my point. But I'm not going to argue with you about that. You don't understand and I'm not going to bash my head against the wall explaining the basic concept of why this new system is bad and why the old was better.

[TrixxieTriss]

People asked free roam space pve and got space pvp.

Actually don't remember anyone ask monthly story chapters and old content to be relevant in level cap.

People asked more class stories, new group content and new events. Updates to legacy system and new daily areas and planets.

BW has been taking too long to introduce features players asked, some of those features are nothing people asked and after short time they are just abandoned.

 

And they even did the space pvp badly. Lots of us wanted something like the old X-Wing vs Tie Fighter and we expected both joystick and game pad support.

[TrixxieTriss]

No no I'm pretty sure the forum did ask for everything I posted.

 

But how much of the forum community asked for it? Was there a couple of threads? Because there were way more threads and posts about space pve and not pvp.

[Quraswren]

I'm not arguing that everyone loves rng. It's self evident that most people hate it including me. My point is that players accept it for what it is and keep playing. Some do it grudgingly, others learn to cope with it.

 

Having to push gamers to tolerate the game is never a good place to design from. Thats what RNG gearing will do given where we are coming from and how we have been gearing for years.

 

SWTOR isn't strong enough to design from, lets hope players just tolerate it.

 

But never forget, gearing your toon is only part of the overall mmo experience. If rng is enough to make you want to unsub, then there probably wasn't much keeping you here in the first place.

 

Given that after story, gearing is a massive carrot on a stick for the largest number of MMO gamers. It better be more than a tolerance experience. WOW can pull it off because it hits those other pillars very well but from my experience, there still leaving because of RNG gearing once content is done. The carrot is to random.

 

Gear is a massive hook to keep gamers going. SWTOR sure as hades doesn't have enough new content to do it come this expansion and bw wants to rely on hope the tolerate RNG gearing. It's mindbogglingly stupid at this point in SWTOR.

[Andryah]

What do you mean by citation, are you the forum police now. Am I not allowed to voice my contempt or opinion.

 

Do you understand what the common term in gaming forums "citation needed" means? It means when you make hyperbolic statements, and do not clearly declare them to be your contemptuous opinion, it is prudent if you want to be taken seriously to cite supporting evidence.

 

However, since you have now clarified that you are simply expressing an opinion of contempt for the game... no further action required on your part. got it... you were simply expressing your contempt for the game in an opinion based comment with clear distortions to help reflect your level of contempt.

 

Please proceed, as I am sure you still have at least have a stomach full of contempt left to share with us all.

[TrixxieTriss]

I've been reading these forums nearly every day for years.

 

If anyone asked for space pvp they were a small minority compared to the people asking for off-rails space pve. Still waiting for that.

 

People did ask for more frequent updates, but I never saw a single person ask for episodic story. Content releases have never been only yearly. Before the conversion to f2p they were planning to bring out the content of RotHC in chunks about every 2 months, but they scrapped that and lumped everything into one xpac. We got a few nice small content releases with Czerka, Kuat & Oricon. SoR had the 4 flashpoint lead up and then the Ziost follow up. I'm sure most people would be thrilled if we got small content patches like those again. Everyone got something in a reasonably timely manner. People weren't unhappy with KotFE because of the pacing, they were unhappy because they were used to an expansion having something for everyone, if not at launch, then soon after in a smaller content patch.

 

And I never saw anyone ask for level-sync, let alone enough people asking for it for it to be a priority for limited resources. The people who enjoyed the old content enjoyed it just fine without level sync. The people who were tired of the old content weren't going to be re-invigorated by being sync'd.

 

You know what I have seen people asking for a lot?

 

New raids and to a lesser extent new flashpoints.

8v8 ranked pvp.

Server mergers or cross server queuing.

Customizations &/or gear slots for KotFE companions.

A hood-toggle.

Chat-bubbles & chair sitting.

Gear tabs.

Advance class reset.

Gender change.

Toys as a learnable skill.

Body tattoos.

Traditional Jedi Robes

Credit bank.

A return to open planets.

Shorten the respawn on key mobs for heroics.

Weapons in outfit designer.

 

Nailed it in one. Every major topic but two, pvp class balance and people cheating.

[Andryah]

It's mindbogglingly stupid at this point in SWTOR.

 

What is?

 

Your continuing to pay to play this MMO you despise so much?

 

Yes yes.. I read your entire rant, and I understand why this game bugs you so much. You have been very clear... for a while now.

 

I find it interesting that you still want to play it even though it makes you want to pull your eyes out of their sockets.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Andryah

[AlienEyeTX]

I'm not arguing that everyone loves rng. It's self evident that most people hate it including me. My point is that players accept it for what it is and keep playing. Some do it grudgingly, others learn to cope with it. But never forget, gearing your toon is only part of the overall mmo experience. If rng is enough to make you want to unsub, then there probably wasn't much keeping you here in the first place.

 

And that right there is a major part of their problem. There isn't much keeping folks around these days.

[TrixxieTriss]

What's most surprising is to see the many, on any other day, levelheaded posters go wacko in this thread.

 

Lots of emotion and out rage at Bioware. It spills into the forums when people stick up for them or don't listen to why it's a problem for the majority of players. They think as long as they are happy in their own little world, then there is no problem and antagonise people with ledgitmate concerns. Some people feed off that and just want to argue and see how upset people can get. Add that to the already volatile rage at Bioware and people's emotions explode.

[Andryah]

But you (and others) have been close minded about the changes since they were announced. You have quickly condemned the game before trying it. Who knows, you may be right and it all sucks and I'll hate it. But until I have a chance to experience the changes first hand I'll keep an open mind. It's called being reasonable.

 

You probably know this already, but you are wasting you time. He has no desire to listen, just to vent. You are fueling his venting by trying to talk him down.

 

It's prelaunch season on the forums. It's like this every year. The particular focus of the ranting changes with what the studio does or does not do... but it remains the ranty season where people prejudge and condemn something they have yet to play. It is not unique to the SWTOR forum either... it's pretty common in every MMO forum.

 

Gaming forums are aggregators of player opinion... mostly negative opinions.... because human nature (particularly in the age of social media) would rather find things to complain about over any other expression. It is what it is.

[Andryah]

Lots of emotion and out rage at Bioware. It spills into the forums when people stick up for them or don't listen to why it's a problem for the majority of players. They think as long as they are happy in their own little world, then there is no problem and antagonise people with ledgitmate concerns. Some people feed off that and just want to argue and see how upset people can get. Add that to the already volatile rage at Bioware and people's emotions explode.

 

What is cute here is you railing about someone objecting to your opinions, or expressing different opinions ... when you do exactly the same thing.

 

What? other forum members are not allowed to express their opinions if you do not agree with them?

 

It IS a game. Why is it necessary to express "volatile rage" (your words) about a game? It's not like there are not a lot of other choices in the market. You are a self declared PvPer... so I'm really not sure why you are playing this MMO when there are a number of others that actually cater more to your preferred play style.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Andryah

[DanNV]

And that right there is a major part of their problem. There isn't much keeping folks around these days.

 

Exactly. And an overly long grind to try to get gear you areb't even guaranteed to get is going to drive even more away.