BadHoneyBadger Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 As many know after 5.0 there will be no more expertise, like it or hate it but what is happening to this gear? I have looked on the forums for an answer and the live streams so if there is a post by a Dev please post it for me to read. Currently I have many 65s on 3 servers (12 Shadowlands, 5 JC, 5 Harb) and most of them are 208 min/maxed. So when I log in on Nov. 29th are all my toons going to be naked? Are the going to be in 208 crappy comm gear without any set bonus? I would think the best course of action would be to turn the old 208 PvP gear into 216 PvE set bonus gear. Before people say something such as "216 PvE gear is harder to get" it really isn't. You can get a majority of it from KP/EV SM which I have cleared with my Bounty Hunter guild 5 Man PT Tank, PT Dps, Merc DPs x2, Merc healer. But has there been any talk from the Devs on this yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) There was a post made by Eric about this. All expertise is going to be removed and expertise Crystals are being converted to Mastery. Edited November 2, 2016 by DarthEnrique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I think this is the post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=897644 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 With the Expertise removed from gear, the question is will they convert that to mastery too. I hope the answer is yes because that would put the gear close to the current higher pve gear. But if they just make it bolster the same, then it won't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaecusMcFly Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) With the Expertise removed from gear, the question is will they convert that to mastery too. I hope the answer is yes because that would put the gear close to the current higher pve gear. But if they just make it bolster the same, then it won't matter I could have sworn I read them already saying Expertise is being changed/added to Mastery. It would be ridiculous if they simply took away Expertise and did not balance the stats accordingly. Edited November 2, 2016 by AlaecusMcFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I could have sworn I read them already saying Expertise is being changed/added to Mastery. It would be ridiculous if they simply took away Expertise and did not balance the stats accordingly. They're only converting expertise to mastery on the crystals. Not the gear, and yes it is ridiculous not converting expertise into mastery and adding that to the gear stats already there, it creates an imbalance right at the start of 5.0 for PvP players. Before anyone says "go get 216 / 220 / 224" gear before 5.0, why the hell would I? That means doing PvE content, not really interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildantics Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 As far as I can tell... No matter what, they will have to edit the gear to remove mastery. I suppose they could do this like 'scryptkiddies' and just let an intern run wild and delete all expertise out of the gear. And sadly I can't say this is beyond their current disregard for pvp players. Or they could take a few dev hours to modify the script to do some addition and supplement the mastery stat of the gear before the expertise is sniped. Yes this has happened before. I think it was when set bonus was moved from shells to armorings. Old pvp gear also had expertise removed and given PVE buffs at the same time. Or maybe they just flat out swapped the 208X* PVP for 208 PVE parts. I forget the actual resolution... Because there was not much meltdown, as it was generally recieved as a positive change. Yeah, bw used to do that sort of thing quite successively... *208 as eg. for the equivalent at that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) How is this even a little bit of a surprise that 208 PvP gear converts to 208 PvE gear? Did anyone think they were going to boost PvP gear to 224? Because that's pretty funny. If No one wants to PvE for 224 prior to 5.0 don't go out of your comfort zone, fine. But if you get the hammer fist from a 224 player first day before you can upgrade your gear....It's not their fault it's yours. I'm sure this will further enrage certain people...So what. It's seriously getting old all the whining and crying. I feel like I'm on these forums with primarily Millennials.... "It's not fair" 'Throws sucker in the dirt' Pfft! Edited November 2, 2016 by Soljin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 If No one wants to PvE for 224 prior to 5.0 don't go out of your comfort zone, fine. But if you get the hammer fist from a 224 player first day before you can upgrade your gear....It's not their fault it's yours. What, for playing a specific type of content? For BioWare not considering bringing all of the gear up to scratch from the first day of the expansion when they remove expertise? How is that the players fault exactly? That's completely on BioWare, not on the player for choosing to play one type of content over another. Has it ever occured to you PvP players don't all like "scripted" fights? I don't, I find that boring. Seems quite a few players thought the very same thing about Chapter 10 of KotFE, scripted forced fights can be boring. That isn't a player fault though, it's an inherent design flaw. If the AI was decent and not so scripted it would be a different story, some other games have pretty decent mob AI that makes the fights more of a challenge. Definitely not a player fault though, have to disagree with you on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_plankskull Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Definitely not a player fault though, have to disagree with you on that one. You can fail your way into PVP gear getting rewarded through losses and virtually nothing in a match. Regardless of how easy sm ops can be, you still need to be somewhat competent, or have semi competent people, to finish it together with only a glimmer of hope of getting gear. The PVP grind is significantly shorter and easy, however, imo, they should still be converted giving some in game use instead of being left alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 There has been no official statement for the stat conversion of any PvP gear except color crystals (which are being replaced by +41 Mastery). If it were me, I'd replace the 204/208 PvP items with "equivalent" 216 PvE for the 204 PvP and either 220 or 224 PvE for the 208 PvP; so that PvP-equipped players will be on the same level as PvE-equipped players. Distant second option would be to put in a bolster in PvP to bring everyone up to 220-equivalent stats, but that's a distant second option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_plankskull Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 There has been no official statement for the stat conversion of any PvP gear except color crystals (which are being replaced by +41 Mastery). If it were me, I'd replace the 204/208 PvP items with "equivalent" 216 PvE for the 204 PvP and either 220 or 224 PvE for the 208 PvP; so that PvP-equipped players will be on the same level as PvE-equipped players. Distant second option would be to put in a bolster in PvP to bring everyone up to 220-equivalent stats, but that's a distant second option. Eww.... no. There is no way 208 pvp gear should be equivalent to 220, let alone 224. It is far easier to obtain PVP gear as you're getting your own reward at the end of a match, the same is not true for operations, and unlike operations which is a pass or fail thing, you can afk in pvp getting dailies done eventually "earning" your gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 You can fail your way into PVP gear getting rewarded through losses and virtually nothing in a match. Regardless of how easy sm ops can be, you still need to be somewhat competent, or have semi competent people, to finish it together with only a glimmer of hope of getting gear. The PVP grind is significantly shorter and easy, however, imo, they should still be converted giving some in game use instead of being left alone. You could fail your way through an operation and get geared by being carried. Likewise you could run story and heroics / weeklies and just gear yourself in 216 gear without a set bonus. PvP is no different aside from requiring other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Eww.... no. Did you really say that? lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_plankskull Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 You could fail your way through an operation and get geared by being carried. Likewise you could run story and heroics / weeklies and just gear yourself in 216 gear without a set bonus. PvP is no different aside from requiring other players. The disparity of the amount you can fail and get carried through a operation is far smaller than it is in PVP. It takes seven other people pulling the slack of dead weight and gets more intensive with a lost person in operations, for pvp it does get increasingly harder as well, but not to the amount it does in operations, and regardless of a win or loss, you still get rewarded one way or another. Not to mention I want to see someone get a full on carry in a hard mode operation outside of EV/KP. Yeah you could be on the bottom of the board, but you still need to carry a significant amount of weight in order to not wipe the group, not so for PVP. Not to mention 204/208 pvp gear is better than 216 gear without set bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 204 PvP gear is "tier 1" group gear for PvP. 208 PvP gear is the highest "tier" of PvP gear; there is no middle ground. They both carry set bonus, so replacing them with the "craftable" inter-tier gear is a no-go. It's not a great solution to remap them to "tier 1" and "tier 2"/"tier 3" raid gear, but without doing it that way, the PvP players will be disadvantaged when compared with the raiders, and will have a valid complaint. If they're merging the P{vP and PVE gear chains, then the PvP gear should map to the equivalent PvE tiers. (For the record, I have very little 208 PvP gear, I think maybe a mainhand or two, and I'm not sure about that. I have maybe 3 or 4 sets of PvP gear in total, and at least one of those sets is not complete to 2018 Expertise - I'm missing some left-hand-side PvP gear) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_plankskull Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 It's not a great solution to remap them to "tier 1" and "tier 2"/"tier 3" raid gear, but without doing it that way, the PvP players will be disadvantaged when compared with the raiders, and will have a valid complaint. If they're merging the P{vP and PVE gear chains, then the PvP gear should map to the equivalent PvE tiers. It's by far the easier means to get gear both in terms of difficulty and time spent... I suppose that would be the drawback for taking the easy route. No I don't have a vendetta against pvp players, and if gearing up took as long as it did raiding, I would vouch for it being converted into something worth while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 They're only converting expertise to mastery on the crystals. Not the gear, and yes it is ridiculous not converting expertise into mastery and adding that to the gear stats already there, it creates an imbalance right at the start of 5.0 for PvP players. Before anyone says "go get 216 / 220 / 224" gear before 5.0, why the hell would I? That means doing PvE content, not really interested. Wait lol, so...they're not bumping 208 gear up to like 220 stats?? They've got to....they can't leave it in such a **** place...there's no way they're that dimwitted...not when PvPers will still want to PvP, despite 5.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Wait lol, so...they're not bumping 208 gear up to like 220 stats?? They've got to....they can't leave it in such a **** place...there's no way they're that dimwitted...not when PvPers will still want to PvP, despite 5.0. Wanna bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Wanna bet? Sadly....no, because I can see it happening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 It's by far the easier means to get gear both in terms of difficulty and time spent... I suppose that would be the drawback for taking the easy route. No I don't have a vendetta against pvp players, and if gearing up took as long as it did raiding, I would vouch for it being converted into something worth while. It's not going to matter for very long, and gear acquisition will have radically changed when the whole system goes live, anyway. What went before doesn't matter. Regardless of the time it took to get theme, 204 PvP gear is the lower tier of PvP gear, and 208 is the highest tier of PvP gear. PvP players could not have gotten better PvP gear than 208 PvP. Unless the gear is remapped to be equivalent to same-tier PvE gear, PvP players will find themselves at a disadvantage against PvE-geared players at 5.0 launch. The "fairness" has nothing to do with time spent and everything to do with stat-equality after 5.0 drops. (Which was why my "second option" was a bolster). PvP players could not get better PvP gear; that didn't matter when PvP gear carried Expertise to offset the improved stats of PvE gear, but after 5.0 drops, if the stats don't change, PvP characters will be at a disadvantage to PvE characters. (They might even be at a disadvantage to characters wearing crafted gear). This is the same kind of thinking that led me to propose that Veteran/Master level content have a bolster that slowly decayed so that PvE players who are currently working Hard/NiM content can continue to work on that content while they gear up to the new gear tiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Sadly....no, because I can see it happening... Aww! TUXs backs down... was looking forward to seeing where this was going to go... had popcorn and everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_plankskull Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 What went before doesn't matter. Regardless of the time it took to get them, 204 PvP gear is the lower tier of PvP gear, and 208 is the highest tier of PvP gear. PvP players could not have gotten better PvP gear than 208 PvP. Unless the gear is remapped to be equivalent to same-tier PvE gear, PvP players will find themselves at a disadvantage against PvE-geared players at 5.0 launch. The "fairness" has nothing to do with time spent and everything to do with stat-equality after 5.0 drops. (Which was why my "second option" was a bolster). PvP players could not get better PvP gear; that didn't matter when PvP gear carried Expertise to offset the improved stats of PvE gear, but after 5.0 drops, if the stats don't change, PvP characters will be at a disadvantage to PvE characters. (They might even be at a disadvantage to characters wearing crafted gear). I will still argue about the fairness of time spent grinding being significantly less than another should be enough to deter this change from happening, but the second part of your argument swindles my decision a bit... so.... how about 216 then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I will still argue about the fairness of time spent grinding being significantly less than another should be enough to deter this change from happening, but the second part of your argument swindles my decision a bit... so.... how about 216 then ? *grabs popcorn* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_plankskull Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 *grabs popcorn* By the way I Pmed Eric about that "sig" if it's acceptable or not so I don't find out the hard way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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