Stealth WZ comm transfer removal = cancel

[IanArgent]

I guess if the changes don't have any negative side effects on you, you could look forward to them. Wish I could say the same.

 

I'm not a founder, I haven't Done It All; and I have an appreciation for how difficult systems design is.

 

That doesn't mean I can't at least intellectually understand where the long-time vets are coming from. OTOH, I also am of the opinion that hobbies that cater primarily to vets die out quickly.

 

I think the issue with being regularly negative or angry on the forums is your posts become noise....

 

People get that overwhelming impression from several of these types of post from the same person and that persons point becomes lost behind their frustration and anger.

 

Honestly people that stay comaposed and articulate their points well have a much greater impact than the bitter kind.

 

That said I have been there....I have more than a few angry posts....

 

I figure my relentlessly optimistic posts get filetered as well, so I try and balance things.

[Soljin]

I'm not a founder, I haven't Done It All; and I have an appreciation for how difficult systems design is.

 

That doesn't mean I can't at least intellectually understand where the long-time vets are coming from. OTOH, I also am of the opinion that hobbies that cater primarily to vets die out quickly.

 

 

 

I figure my relentlessly optimistic posts get filetered as well, so I try and balance things.

 

I am a Founder/Beta tester/Pre-order blah blah blah account created 1st quarter 2009...I heard about this game way before it was officially announced through player rumors in SWG.

 

I have bouts of frustration sure but I am optimistic about 5.0 and Veterans are not getting the shaft they are just mostly very entitled....Lets just call it what it is....

 

Just because you played first does not make you more or less important than any other player. Your contributions to the game community are what will likely define your "place".

 

Granted I am not always happy with BioWares decisions and have more than lost my cool a few times....I eventually cool off and see the other side of their choices.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Soljin

[IanArgent]

I am a Founder/Beta tester/Pre-order blah blah blah account created 1st quarter 2009...I heard about this game way before it was officially announced through player rumors in SWG.

 

I have bouts of frustration sure but I am optimistic about 5.0 and Veterans are not getting the shaft they are just mostly very entitled....Lets just call it what it is....

 

Just because you played first does not make you more or less important than any other player. Your contributions to the game community are what will likely define your "place".

 

Granted I am not always happy with BioWares decisions and have more than lost my cool a few times....I eventually cool off and see the other side of their choices.

 

I do take a fair amount of time to point out that the "veteran user base" is not the be-all and end-all of the entire userbase. The forum population in no way reeflects the game population, and since Bioware takes the choice, every time when they have to, to make choices that benefits new players over veterans, I assume they are of the same opinion as well.

[Soljin]

I figure my relentlessly optimistic posts get filetered as well, so I try and balance things.

 

I find this true when they are not using sound logic or are "blindly" defending a corporation sure....I am no fan of companies like EA and SOE that clearly influence the creative aspects of game design for profit....and when I see potential for that in a decision I will rant...

 

Lets just say I agree that too much of either becomes noise....

Edited October 26, 2016 by Soljin

[AlienEyeTX]

Maybe they weren't really honest when saying they'll convert them into credits, and instead they're going to convert them into cxp.

 

If they made that change, I have to think that they would give us the option to transfer again. They know they made a mistake with the timing, but as long as it converts to credits, it doesn't really matter. Unless someone planned on actually spending the comms.

[Transcendent]

I'm not a founder, I haven't Done It All; and I have an appreciation for how difficult systems design is.

 

That doesn't mean I can't at least intellectually understand where the long-time vets are coming from. OTOH, I also am of the opinion that hobbies that cater primarily to vets die out quickly.

 

I'm also not a founder, I joined when BioWare released promotional footage for EV (it looked great!), this is my first and last MMO that I'll try (I avoided them like the plague prior to this game). Understandably things change over time, and I have zero issues with making the game more accessible for newer players with regards to things like gearing or participation in the content this game has.

 

I'm far from an elitist, sentimental perhaps. I do appreciate the work and effort put into the game, more so from the graphics design side of things and the clever and subtle changes that have been made from expansion to expansion, they definitely bring this game to life. The backend systems were what they were considering the timescales given to implement them, and the fact this was the first foray BioWare Austin had made into the MMO market.

 

The problems this game has? They are by the by. As long as players enjoy it, then it serves its purpose. It's when the changes have longer reaching implications that don't factor in all of the different playstyles, that's where my concerns lay. The population on quite a few servers is not healthy, I've had first hand experience of this going from TRE over to the French and German servers to do the DvL event (just because). Any changes that I feel will have a further negative push on long term populations? I'll definitely speak out on them. The RNG gearing is one of those changes.

 

I could be wrong. I know it'll at least reduce the population by one though. Me. Perhaps I'm biased

[IanArgent]

I'm also not a founder, I joined when BioWare released promotional footage for EV (it looked great!), this is my first and last MMO that I'll try (I avoided them like the plague prior to this game). Understandably things change over time, and I have zero issues with making the game more accessible for newer players with regards to things like gearing or participation in the content this game has.

 

I'm far from an elitist, sentimental perhaps. I do appreciate the work and effort put into the game, more so from the graphics design side of things and the clever and subtle changes that have been made from expansion to expansion, they definitely bring this game to life. The backend systems were what they were considering the timescales given to implement them, and the fact this was the first foray BioWare Austin had made into the MMO market.

 

The problems this game has? They are by the by. As long as players enjoy it, then it serves its purpose. It's when the changes have longer reaching implications that don't factor in all of the different playstyles, that's where my concerns lay. The population on quite a few servers is not healthy, I've had first hand experience of this going from TRE over to the French and German servers to do the DvL event (just because). Any changes that I feel will have a further negative push on long term populations? I'll definitely speak out on them. The RNG gearing is one of those changes.

 

I could be wrong. I know it'll at least reduce the population by one though. Me. Perhaps I'm biased

 

That there is pretty uch one of the reasons I stay active on the forums, at least to explain why they might be doing things; to keep people's optimism up. This game does not have a lot of margin, gratuitously pissing people off is a Bad Idea. I jsut try and explain why the choices might not be gratuitous.

[TUXs]

Last of many straws?

Exactly. It's not THE reason...few people have a single reason for quitting...but this is just ANOTHER reason to move on.

[Soljin]

Exactly. It's not THE reason...few people have a single reason for quitting...but this is just ANOTHER reason to move on.

 

The longer the game exists the more reasons there will be to leave...its inevitable. Funny thing about negatives is that people harbor them even after they are no longer relevant to the current game....On the flip side the many things in game those same people really enjoy don't likely get much press on the forums.....

 

The only real question on the table for people discussing leaving is have you learned enough about 5.0 to be certain you will no longer enjoy playing the game after its launch.

 

If you don't know for certain and bail out of some misguided idea that you are getting revenge in some way you will likely end up disappointed.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Soljin

[TUXs]

The only real question on the table for people discussing leaving is have you learned enough about 5.0 to be certain you will no longer enjoy playing the game after its launch.

Some people have.

[Viperswhip]

Maybe they weren't really honest when saying they'll convert them into credits, and instead they're going to convert them into cxp.

 

I have, oh I don't know, close to max wcs on my lowbie pvp character and I transferred all the rest of my comms to her on Monday, she's like level 45? I won't play her during double exp, she has her ship, but otherwise I've not played anything other than pvp.

[PlasmaJohn]

The only real question on the table for people discussing leaving is have you learned enough about 5.0 to be certain you will no longer enjoy playing the game after its launch.

I am here by default. I don't have a lot of other options for sci-fi themed PvE group content. The game I do progression raiding in is struggling and doesn't offer much else that I haven't done to death. This is my something else.

 

The new gearing system bothers me on an intellectual basis but has little real direct effect on how I want to play the game: casual raiding. Unfortunately it's having a very real effect on a guild I am part of so even though I can personally ignore the attempt at becoming a Korean grinder I may lose the people I depend on for the casual raiding I want to do.

 

Scratch that, I know we're going to lose people because they're opting for GTHO now that Preferreds are unwelcome here.

[TX_Angel]

Last of many straws? I'm looking forward to the new changes, but I'm not unaware of the legitimate complaints of people who aren't like me. TX_Angel is a little more strident and abrasive than some others, but there are good points offered.

 

Are you calling me salty?

 

Think of me as the online version of Mr. Wonderful, some people think I'm mean, I'm really not, I just tell it like it is...

 

And yes, I DO think I could do a better job, but EA wouldn't pay me what I'd require... I'm honestly shocked at the piss-poor pay of lead developers in the game industry, no wonder we get so many bug filled games rushed out at the last minute, there is a serious lack of professionalism in the game business.

[TX_Angel]

Cripes, you get more belligerent by the day. He wasn't defending anything, just making a point that you're gonna have to re-gear with the expansion anyway.

 

I'm getting old, maybe I should start yelling "damm kids get off my lawn!"

 

I'm just sad about what the game could have been, had the 2.0 to 3.0 era been continued, had faction stories been continued... but alas, that ship has sailed...

[PlasmaJohn]

And yes, I DO think I could do a better job, but EA wouldn't pay me what I'd require... I'm honestly shocked at the piss-poor pay of lead developers in the game industry, no wonder we get so many bug filled games rushed out at the last minute, there is a serious lack of professionalism in the game business.

Another greybeard harshing on Full Sail U? *high five's*

[TX_Angel]

So TL;DR:

Coms are worthless. They will be credits. It does NOT matter if it's all on one toon, all over toons, or in a legacy bank. They're being taken out of game.

So unless you & the OP can give me a good legitimate reason as to why this was a reason to quit, I'll say the same thing I have been saying about this matter. It's stupid, but it's also stupid to throw a fit over it.

 

Credits to many are worthless, I have more than I can ever spend...

 

I can't use the credits to buy CXP and I'm not grinding gear again on old content...

 

If I can't get geared up in a week when 5.0 drops, I'm not going to at all....

[TX_Angel]

I have bouts of frustration sure but I am optimistic about 5.0

 

Serious question... why? There isn't anything in 5.0 to be optimistic about, other than some more chapters of some poorly written single player instanced story...

 

What, SF 2.0? I did all 6 of those SF Heroics the first week they came out and never looked back, they were fun once, but boring as snot, they should never have had a solo mode, makes them dull...

[TX_Angel]

I do take a fair amount of time to point out that the "veteran user base" is not the be-all and end-all of the entire userbase. The forum population in no way reeflects the game population, and since Bioware takes the choice, every time when they have to, to make choices that benefits new players over veterans, I assume they are of the same opinion as well.

 

Two thoughts:

 

1. It costs less to keep a current customer than it does to get a new one.

 

2. How well is that really working out for Bioware? I see largely empty servers, even Harby isn't that great these days.

[TX_Angel]

The longer the game exists the more reasons there will be to leave...its inevitable.

 

If there was actual new content coming out with each x.0 release, I could look past it all...

 

We haven't had an expansion since 3.0, everything since has been a single player game (or at least 95% of it has been).

 

Make another expansion like 2.0 and I would have more reasons to stay.

[Rolodome]

I mean, it wasn't stealth, but it was abrupt. It kinda felt like Eric walked into work that day and somebody said, "Oh by the way, we're removing the legacy transfer status of warzone commendations. Go make a post about it. Kthnx."

 

Maybe it'll come out from what the conversion ends up as that there was sneaky reason for it. Maybe I'll be eating my words and digesting them slowly over a thousand years. But who knows.

 

Either way, it looks bad from our perspective.

[TX_Angel]

Another greybeard harshing on Full Sail U? *high five's*

 

*ugg*

 

Let me just say that learning to develop computer programs is about more than learning to code... Computer Science is not about programming, it is about theory and thinking...

 

Then there is the business side, which is about more than spreadsheets and MBAs as well, it is about understanding customers and people at a human level. People are emotional creatures, not metrics in a database. The lack of communication on the WZ comms is an example of a waste of goodwill for nothing. Had a month's notice been given, far less complaining would be happening. Some would, but there would be some defenders saying, "hey, we got a ton of notice!" and I would understand that.

 

If we had 3 months notice that comms and crystals would convert to credits, then we could play and plan accordingly. The issue, too often, is NOT the changes being made, but the lack of notice of those changes.

[Jadescythe]

I think BW should give more than 24 hour notice for any change, but in the case of the OP, it isn't even a problem. If you were planning on distributing the comms prior to 5.0, then who cares if you can no longer do that? They are just going to convert to credits when 5.0 hits (or before), so transfer the credits after they convert. Or alternatively, if you were going to hit credit caps, transfer credits now to accommodate the influx of credits when they are converted.

 

The only people impacted by this change are players who wanted to transfer WZ comms to get 204/208 gear to use for the next month and it really sucks that the option to do so is gone with little notice.

[Viperswhip]

Maybe they are trying to kill the game, Disney may want to revoke the rights from EA because Disney is well loved and EA is one of the most hated companies in America lol (only by people who don't read the news). Oops, I will get the thread locked.

[IanArgent]

Are you calling me salty?

 

Think of me as the online version of Mr. Wonderful, some people think I'm mean, I'm really not, I just tell it like it is...

 

And yes, I DO think I could do a better job, but EA wouldn't pay me what I'd require... I'm honestly shocked at the piss-poor pay of lead developers in the game industry, no wonder we get so many bug filled games rushed out at the last minute, there is a serious lack of professionalism in the game business.

 

Nah - not calling you salty (much). You've got good arguments, and valid complaints. A little more argumentative than some, but I've been known to be argumentative myself, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Gaming company pay is peanuts because the gaming market isn't all that lucrative. It's a hobby, making hobby money. There's a lot of gamers, but games aren't mission-critical to the ones who have money, and the ones to whom it is mission critical, they don't have that kind of money. Thus, poor pay. I make a comfortable living not necessarily because of what I do, but because of who I do it for.

 

Two thoughts:

 

1. It costs less to keep a current customer than it does to get a new one.

 

2. How well is that really working out for Bioware? I see largely empty servers, even Harby isn't that great these days.

 

I see that a lot, but it ignores that there is a "half-life" of any participant in a hobby. Any one particular hobbyist has an unknown lifespan in the hobby; but staistically, you know (or you better know) half your participants will be gone by point Y, and half of the rest will be gone by point Z, etc. Established hobby businesses tell their veterans to take a long walk off a short pier all the time, in proper attempts to get new customers. They hope the veterans stick around as part of that "new customer base," but every time a new console comes out, or a new rules set for a tabletop game, or a new game in an established series that won't run on older hardware, the old customers are being told exactly how much value they have vs new ones. (I don't currently work in the hobby gaming industry, but I used to work in the computer gaming industry, my wife did a lot of work for various tabletop companies in the heyday of the OGL RPG renaissance, most of which are still in business, and as a longtime gaming hobbyist, I tend to follow the industry thinking, so I keep up on things).

 

By rebuilding the current SWTOR in the way they have, I could argue they're trying to avoid utterly rejecting their veterans. You still have all your old characters, most of your personal out of game skills will transfer, you'll still have the oodles of credits and all the cosmetic unlocks, etc. If they had spent the equivalent development time since 3.0 dropped on a SWTOR 2; you'd keep none of that. You;d have a shiny new game, running on a shiny new engine; and nothing from the old one (or maybe a pittance of a "loyalty bonus," a mount of two, a shiny title, and the memories of what SWTOR 1 was).

 

BW thinks there's more money in refurbishing SWTOR than in building anew, or entering MX mode. (This is not MX mode - MX mode would be reshuffling the existing mechanics of bosses and remixing them into "new" flashpoints and ops, with slightly bigger numbers; and not changing the underlying game mechanics at all. Maybe chipping away at the bugtracker report from time to time. No new game modes, no major changes to economy and gear distribution. )

[PlasmaJohn]

Gaming company pay is peanuts because the gaming market isn't all that lucrative. It's a hobby, making hobby money. There's a lot of gamers, but games aren't mission-critical to the ones who have money, and the ones to whom it is mission critical, they don't have that kind of money. Thus, poor pay. I make a comfortable living not necessarily because of what I do, but because of who I do it for.

When done right computer games are extremely lucrative. The problem is that by-and-large they've been horribly mismanaged by both the money folks that don't understand game design and game developers that operate like startups from the Internet's boom-era (let's try this... *next year rolls around*, let's try this...).

 

MMO's are a monster of another level. My crack about Full Sail... You've got these kids making their little browser games in Unity that don't have the first clue how to design stuff to run as an enterprise level operation. Game companies flat out refuse to hire anybody outside of their own little clique so they're super short on the operational expertise and development discipline needed to make sure these games don't roll over and die at the slightest bit of stress.

 

Game developers are paid peanuts because there's a huge supply of dumb kids who'll do 80-hour weeks for next to nothing. And the game companies have certainly gotten what they paid for: Games started with enthusiasm and Red Bull fueled exuberance with sod-all for discipline. Source code control, what's that? ewww, ain't no time for that. Detailed design? Uh.. .oh here on the back of my hand.

 

Those same games are "polished" when the money folks come down and demand a release. The Red Bull the polishers have consumed has finally taken its toll and the burn out is in full swing while what's left of the team grind through the death march to launch.