Galactic Command =/= Battlemaster Bags

[Andryah]

Galactic Command isn't just for raiders. This progression system is for all players at endgame. It's not meant to promote one playstyle over the other, at least that's the intention. As far as PvP gear being too accessible, that's a non-issue as PvP ranked gear (rating 208) was vastly inferior to NiM Op gear (rating 224). What BioWare is doing is placing all players, regardless of their interests, on the same progression path. If anything, this system is merely meant to make things easier to maintain from a development standpoint rather than giving preferential treatment to any demographic of the playerbase.

 

Agreed. And honestly, for a casual theme park MMO.. this is an excellent innovation.

 

I like that you can play any content at 70 and earn toward boxes, IF you are a gear hound. I think it is a progressive move by the studio.

 

Again, you are merely speculating on how you perceive RNG to function with Galactic Command. We don't know all the facts and it's too early to make such frivolous statements until we see the system in action. I know you are going to stick by your numbers and probabilities. However, until we learn how fast we level in Galactic Command, how easy it is to obtain crates, and how much these GCXP daily bonus boosts provide, your remarks are pure speculation based on the RNG you perceive to exist.

 

Agreed.

 

There is RNG and then there is RNG. Not all RNG implementations are bad in MMOs... no matter what some insist.

 

You know that the funny thing about RNG for gear is here? It's a complete distraction from other relevant aspects of the game that players should be focused on and would in fact deserve some decent discussion among players and feedback from the studio. It's like waving a bone in front of a dog.. the dog forgets about every other aspect of what is coming.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Andryah

[Jadescythe]

You know that the funny thing about RNG for gear is here? It's a complete distraction from other relevant aspects of the game that players should be focused on and would in fact deserve some decent discussion among players and feedback from the studio. It's like waving a bone in front of a dog.. the dog forgets about every other aspect of what is coming.

 

Like what? What do you feel we should be discussing instead? Clearly players are fairly content or at least neutral with the other changes coming or we'd see more threads on those issues. I see no reason to be overly positive about what BW may or may not have gotten right and I'm taking the approach you suggest on new innovations. Things like removing drops from content have never been done, so I can't say they are bad until I try them. We are commenting on the feature BW is adding that we already know is horrible and is taking a step backwards in the progression of the game.

[TUXs]

Game design that impacts players that subscribe (or play) primarily for Operations or PvP? Yes, most certainly. Although perhaps ignorant is a better word.

 

The Operations themselves have been great. However the structure around them has been horrible. Most of us are here despite the decision-making in this area, not because of it.

 

I am not knocking the studio or its employees. Nor I do not think it's an intentional slight. It's just that the decision making has consistently shown a lack of understanding of why such players are here. At no point since the stream have I given a moment's thought to the idea that someone from Bioware understands what this type of gearing model means to guilds such as mine and players such as myself. Because I do believe they do not want us to go. And I believe anyone who understands this aspect of MMO gameplay would also understand this model kills our enjoyment of this game. Starting 12/2 we can't raid seriously anymore. We can't do fun stuff anymore. Until when? that's the best part. We don't know.

 

Again, I'm not trying to pick on them. You just asked a simple, probably rhetorical question, but I do not know anyone - I mean, literally anyone - I speak with that wouldn't agree with what I've just said. And I'm pretty sure the studio doesn't understand why. As such, no, I do not believe they have thought through the actual problems this system creates for raiding guilds. Because they do not know what they are.

 

Listen, I can think of 20 people that would be happy to sit down with Eric and discuss the problem. Myself included. These forums are a cesspool and the relevant info gets diluted in moments here. There's nothing of value to be gleaned here. It's just a bunch of people venting or trolling. Anything resembling a constructive conversation is obliterated by post 5.

 

This requires someone to sit down with them and walk them through what actually happens in the day to day and what this means to teams that have played together for 2,3,4 or more years. What this means to players that raid on multiple characters, in multiple guilds and on multiple servers. Players that play multiple characters. The game wont be fun on 12/2 for us. It's over.

 

No, I don't think they understand that. They don't understand how far this pushes players from the content they want to be doing. Players that are serious are going to have to choose between activities they hate and limited raid opportunities. There is no angle from which that is an enjoyable experience for players that PvE seriously, and I suspect my PvP brothers are in the same boat.

 

So, no, I don't think they have thought it through.

I wish I could be as eloquent as you

 

This is damn near a PERFECT post!!!

[CorellianWannabe]

You know that the funny thing about RNG for gear is here? It's a complete distraction from other relevant aspects of the game that players should be focused on and would in fact deserve some decent discussion among players and feedback from the studio.

 

What should be discussed-the focus on cartel dress-up? The lack of choices mattering in their 'epic' story? Changes that would merit a ban because they haven't been released yet?

 

As someone that flounced over RNG how can you say it's a good thing? Was the apparent ease of gearing in ops/warzones simply intolerable to EA and needed to be dramatically slowed with an xp cap- and RNG on top of that? Will tanks be ecstatic to earn ever more pieces of dps gear so they can 'off-dps' instead of their preferred role and keep logging in in the hope that 'maybe the level I earn from grinding this week will give me the piece I want'?

 

Apparently no restrictions and shiny companions aren't enough of an incentive for subscribers for EA, so now the entire endgame structure is built around them.

Edited October 19, 2016 by CorellianWannabe

[Nempo]

What should be discussed-the focus on cartel dress-up? The lack of choices mattering in their 'epic' story? Changes that would merit a ban because they haven't been released yet?

 

As someone that flounced over RNG how can you say it's a good thing? Was the apparent ease of gearing in ops/warzones simply intolerable to EA and needed to be dramatically slowed with an xp cap- and RNG on top of that? Will tanks be ecstatic to earn ever more pieces of dps gear so they can 'off-dps' instead of their preferred role and keep logging in in the hope that 'maybe the level I earn from grinding this week will give me the piece I want'?

 

Apparently no restrictions and shiny companions aren't enough of an incentive for subscribers for EA, so now the entire endgame structure is built around them.

 

Ah, someone showing they didn't read how the crates will work. If you are specced as a tank, you only get tank gear drops. Same with DPS and Healers. The boxes are tied to your spec...thus if your spec has that little purple shield on it...only tank gear will drop for you...not a single piece of DPS gear. That is the intent behind it...so you only get relevant gear.

[Tsetso]

Ah, someone showing they didn't read how the crates will work. If you are specced as a tank, you only get tank gear drops. Same with DPS and Healers. The boxes are tied to your spec...thus if your spec has that little purple shield on it...only tank gear will drop for you...not a single piece of DPS gear. That is the intent behind it...so you only get relevant gear.

 

That's not true. Eric himself confirmed that the drops would be based on AC, not discipline.

[Khevar]

Ah, someone showing they didn't read how the crates will work. If you are specced as a tank, you only get tank gear drops. Same with DPS and Healers. The boxes are tied to your spec...thus if your spec has that little purple shield on it...only tank gear will drop for you...not a single piece of DPS gear. That is the intent behind it...so you only get relevant gear.

This is not correct.

 

Please see Eric's quote here:

I'll take a crack at these!

...

• It is based on Advanced Class, not Discipline.
  

...

Tank / dps are two different disciplines in the same advanced class. Healer / dps are two different disciplines in the same advanced class.

[TUXs]

This is not correct.

 

Please see Eric's quote here:

 

Tank / dps are two different disciplines in the same advanced class. Healer / dps are two different disciplines in the same advanced class.

Which means that just by design, about half the pieces you get, could be worthless to you...once you start getting some 'good gear', your odds will continue to drop.

 

This also hurts when you have a player who wants to run something on his DPS GS, but you need a tank so he switches to his Guardian. Currently, he'll still get a piece of gear he can use on his GS (via Legacy), but that won't be the case after the update.

[IanArgent]

Andryah, Aowin; I've spend over a year crossing verbal swords with TUXs, Gabigool, and Jadescythe, and others like them, since the early run-up to 4.0. I'm even mostly arguing that we need to wait and see what BW hasn't told us yet about how the system is going to work; because we don't have a full and complete view of the system, even if we do go looking in unofficial news sites.

 

What I'm agreeing with them on, though, is that there are many potential points of failure implicit in the design of the new system as-described. My arguments about wait and see are all "if they reduce the effect of the RNG (essentially, make it nearly optional), then it won't matter. "

 

Anecdote from 15 years ago - the MtG designers, with the best of intentions, knew that cards like the dual lands, and the Black Lotus, and the Moxes, were overpowered. They assumed that the "RNG" mechanic of their rarity would make them "balanced."

 

Is anyone going to argue that, at some point, a complete set of end-game gear is not only sufficient but necessary to play top-tier content? (The arguable point is only where the point at which that switches from sufficient to necessary). That is the sticking point of RNG. You can say all you like that "it won't be that bad," etc. But when it comes down to it, it's down to the roll of the dice whether you get the gear you need, and without robust anti-RNG mechanisms (that already exist for gear drops,via the non-traditional treasure distribution methods and the "fixed" drop sites - between the two oif them, with help from your friends, you can be guaranteed to get the piece you need to move up), this will fail some people.

 

There is a declared anti-RNG mechanic; the disintegrate button. But until we know how much CXP we get for disintegrating something, we cannot judge how effective that mechanic will be. And as someone pointed out to me, if it's effective, as-designed, it will also be an extremely effective power-leveling mechanism for command level, possibly an overpowering one. The more effective an anti-RNG mechanic it is, the more effective a power-leveling mechanic it is, possibly fatally so. Or possibly not, and the design intent is that one should always disintegrate non-max-level gear to accelerate CXP gains. In which case, why bother? (This is a problem that currently exists in-game with the missions that drop a choice of gear or crystals - it's always better to take the crystals, because you can use them "forever" at end-game, whereas you will outlevel the item drop).

Edited October 19, 2016 by IanArgent

[Primarch_PWnD]

Agreed. And honestly, for a casual theme park MMO.. this is an excellent innovation.

 

I like that you can play any content at 70 and earn toward boxes, IF you are a gear hound. I think it is a progressive move by the studio.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

There is RNG and then there is RNG. Not all RNG implementations are bad in MMOs... no matter what some insist.

 

You know that the funny thing about RNG for gear is here? It's a complete distraction from other relevant aspects of the game that players should be focused on and would in fact deserve some decent discussion among players and feedback from the studio. It's like waving a bone in front of a dog.. the dog forgets about every other aspect of what is coming.

 

 

I don't think this is "progressive" or "innovative". Remember, RNG has been done in this game, which makes this "regressive" if you want to assign an adjective to it.

 

Regardless of how Battlemaster bags were implemented, the bottom line was that it was the RNG that was the problem.

 

Not even the pace at which we gear ourselves will be under our control anymore. It's entirely possible that my tank will have a full set of dps gear before getting his tank gear. It's also possible that I'll be sitting on 5 duplicate sets of boots while I still need half of my set. How many different stat combinations are there for earpieces? I need a particular one, but even if I get lucky and an earpiece drops, it's still only got a 1 in 10 chance of being the one I need. Same with the implants. The complete and utter lack of control when it comes to RNG is the issue, regardless of their goals in doing it.

 

Taking it one step further, I like to add some dps mods/enhancements to my tank gear for pvp. Now I have to wait and hope RNG drops me even more of what I need to be able to happily play. And isn't the "happily play" the important part of a game? If part of a game is making people frustrated or miserable, isn't it logical to change that part of the game? Once upon a time they realized this, and mitigated all the gear grinds in the game. I just don't understand why they're bringing it back knowing that people didn't like it in the first place.

 

This system takes all the control out of our hands. I doesn't matter what I need to complete my set, all I can do is cross my fingers while I keep grinding away. I play the game because it's fun, not because there's gear to grind. Re-adding a gear grind takes away the fun.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Primarch_PWnD

[TUXs]

I don't think this is "progressive" or "innovative". Remember, RNG has been done in this game, which makes this "regressive" if you want to assign an adjective to it.

 

Regardless of how Battlemaster bags were implemented, the bottom line was that it was the RNG that was the problem.

 

Not even the pace at which we gear ourselves will be under our control anymore. It's entirely possible that my tank will have a full set of dps gear before getting his tank gear. It's also possible that I'll be sitting on 5 duplicate sets of boots while I still need half of my set. How many different stat combinations are there for earpieces? I need a particular one, but even if I get lucky and an earpiece drops, it's still only got a 1 in 10 chance of being the one I need. Same with the implants. The complete and utter lack of control when it comes to RNG is the issue, regardless of their goals in doing it.

 

Taking it one step further, I like to add some dps mods/enhancements to my tank gear for pvp. Now I have to wait and hope RNG drops me even more of what I need to be able to happily play. And isn't the "happily play" the important part of a game? If part of a game is making people frustrated or miserable, isn't it logical to change that part of the game? Once upon a time they realized this, and mitigated all the gear grinds in the game. I just don't understand why they're bringing it back knowing that people didn't like it in the first place.

 

This system takes all the control out of our hands. I doesn't matter what I need to complete my set, all I can do is cross my fingers while I keep grinding away. I play the game because it's fun, not because there's gear to grind. Re-adding a gear grind takes away the fun.

Very well stated!!! I'd use this as my signature, but it exceeds the character limit

[Jadescythe]

There is a declared anti-RNG mechanic; the disintegrate button. But until we know how much CXP we get for disintegrating something, we cannot judge how effective that mechanic will be. And as someone pointed out to me, if it's effective, as-designed, it will also be an extremely effective power-leveling mechanism for command level, possibly an overpowering one. The more effective an anti-RNG mechanic it is, the more effective a power-leveling mechanic it is, possibly fatally so. Or possibly not, and the design intent is that one should always disintegrate non-max-level gear to accelerate CXP gains. In which case, why bother? (This is a problem that currently exists in-game with the missions that drop a choice of gear or crystals - it's always better to take the crystals, because you can use them "forever" at end-game, whereas you will outlevel the item drop).

 

This is my problem with the system. Why leave the speed of gearing up to RNG, even with a mechanic that guarantees (which this system doesn't technically do) a certain rate of progression? If you want it to take 500 heroics, 30 flashpoints, 2 operations, and the KotET story to reach max level, then do it. Don't make that the requirement with the chance of getting gear faster by being really lucky or you'll just alienate the unlucky players.

[Andryah]

Andryah, Aowin; I've spend over a year crossing verbal swords with TUXs, Gabigool, and Jadescythe, and others like them, since the early run-up to 4.0. I'm even mostly arguing that we need to wait and see what BW hasn't told us yet about how the system is going to work; because we don't have a full and complete view of the system, even if we do go looking in unofficial news sites.

 

What I'm agreeing with them on, though, is that there are many potential points of failure implicit in the design of the new system as-described. My arguments about wait and see are all "if they reduce the effect of the RNG (essentially, make it nearly optional), then it won't matter. "

All of which could in fact be contrived and never happen.

 

Setting aside the fact that RNG is being deliberately misrepresented by some in order to promote their usual negative narrative, in the absence of actual facts .....

 

......just let all the negative pre-judgmental rhetoric in the forum just run and run and doom on anyone who offers counterpoints and encourages players to wait and actually play something before condemning? Pat them on the back and buy in to their rhetoric. Forum discussion is only open to negative narratives targeted against the studio?

 

Interesting.

 

Again.. RNG is not the issue with drops.. it's the loot tables. Done right and they work great. Done wrong and they fail. RNG is simply a numerical component in a formula working in conjunction with a loot table. Clearly.. the loot table design for BattleMaster gear was flawed and in no way resembles what they are doing in GC boxes. Clearly, comparing the Alliance Crates to GC boxes is both a misdirection and incorrect because Alliance crates are large loot table driven with ZERO consideration of class or discipline.

 

What has been disclosed so far is that GC boxes will work based on filtering for your AC and hence narrows the randomness significantly. Yet some people insist GC boxes will be BattleMaster boxes all over again. And when that gets objective push back they shift to compaing to Alliance Crates. Next it will be some other RNG disaster they can recall from the past and run that theater performance.

 

The only issue I can see with GC boxes is that they appear, at this point in time, to ignore Discipline filtering. Honestly, while I think filtering should include Discipline filtering... its certainly not a disaster if they don't. Why? Because you do not tune for discipline from the armor mod (which carries the set bonus that everyone insists is critical), and it's simple to adjust the mod or enhancement slots to custom tune to your discipline or preference (which only even applies for the most difficult end game uses to begin with).

 

This drama over RNG is not only misplaced, it is making a mountain out of a molehill in advance of actually playing. Typical for this forum population though... so no real surprise here. The forum will just double down on the toxic rhetoric until they have something else to wrap in toxic rhetoric. They also will try to silence anyone that disagrees with them, as they always do. All we need to get off the RNG rampage is for the studio to say something, anything, that the armchair designers don't like.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I don't think this is "progressive" or "innovative". Remember, RNG has been done in this game, which makes this "regressive" if you want to assign an adjective to it.

 

Regardless of how Battlemaster bags were implemented, the bottom line was that it was the RNG that was the problem.

 

RNG is not the issue, loot table design and filtering is the issue, and it's not nearly as tragic as some of you are pretending. I'm sure the studio knows this, which is why they are not commenting on all the foaming at the mouth over RNG.

 

Stop promoting BattleMaster RNG as = GC RNG. They are clearly very different.

 

IF you actually want to engage in productive discussion with the studio.... focus on the need for filtering on the loot tables that mitigate repeat drops of the same item. Focus on filtering to include Discipline (even though a player can change Discipline at any time and could undercut their gear in the process. If you just want to be negative for the sake of negativity.. then by all means double down on the fiction.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Andryah

[Shwarzchild]

RNG is not the issue, loot table design and filtering is the issue. I'm sure the studio knows this, which is why they are not commenting on all the foaming at the mouth over RNG.

 

Stop promoting BattleMaster RNG as = GC RNG. They are clearly very different.

 

IF you actually want to engage in productive discussion with the studio.... focus on the need for filtering on the loot tables that mitigate repeat drops of the same item. Focus on filtering to include Discipline (even though a player can change Discipline at any time and could undercut their gear in the process. If you just want to be negative for the sake of negativity.. then by all means double down on the fiction.

 

I am still utterly dumb founded on how you can support this. It's almost like you'll think of any way possible to paint the best possible picture regarding this. Rng is the problem. More over advanced class specific filtering is the problem. Moreover it not being legacy is a problem. All things totally already said that we can point to as fact. I almost believe if someone slaps a Star Wars title on something they will have cart Blanche access to your wallet and you'll be like yup! Everything is wonderful! Nobody that dislikes this could possibly be right. They are all morons! You have absolutely confounded me with your stance.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Shwarzchild

[Jadescythe]

This drama over RNG is not only misplaced, it is making a mountain out of a molehill in advance of actually playing. Typical for this forum population though... so no real surprise here. The forum will just double down on the toxic rhetoric until they have something else to wrap in toxic rhetoric. They also will try to silence anyone that disagrees with them, as they always do. All we need to get off the RNG rampage is for the studio to say something, anything, that the armchair designers don't like.

 

Who is being toxic other than your posts calling everyone else toxic?

 

All you've said is that you are willing to tolerate RNG depending on how much there is without taking numerous factors into consideration. Ok, so we know the gear will work for your AC. Any AC with 2 roles automatically has a 50% chance of getting something related to their discipline right off the bat. Then we have to consider that even if you get a piece for your discipline, it may not have the stats allocated the way you want as there are usually 2+ versions of each piece, so take another 50% there. Now we have to account for getting duplicate pieces as you continue to get more gear. And you can see how the odds continue to stack against you with the RNG process.

 

Honestly, anything short of choosing the piece they give me when I earn one (like what happens today in PvP and end game PvE), is a step backwards for the game.

[TUXs]

Who is being toxic other than your posts calling everyone else toxic?

So true lol.

[Andryah]

I am still utterly dumb founded on how you can support this. It's almost like you'll think of any way possible to paint the best possible picture regarding this. Rng is the problem. More over advanced class specific filtering is the problem. Moreover it not being legacy is a problem. All things totally already said that we can point to as fact. I almost believe if someone slaps a Star Wars title on something they will have cart Blanche access to your wallet and you'll be like yup! Everything is wonderful! Nobody that dislikes this could possibly be right. They are all morons! You have absolutely confounded me with your stance.

 

I'm sorry... are you of the position that GC boxes do in fact = BattleMaster boxes [the topic of this thread]? if so.. we are at an impasse because you are ignoring known facts.

 

Setting aside your desire to attack me for expressing an opinion.. I have been quite clear about the adjustments I think they should make to the loot table filtering, while also noting that if they don't it's certainly not the tragedy some are portraying.

 

Here.. let me be clear through recap since you are either ignoring what I have said in multiple threads on the same topic or willfully choosing conflict as an approach to discussion.....

 

1) I support them adding Discipline filtering to account for tank/dps/healer secondary stat differences.

2) I also support some form of filtering to mitigate RNG dropping the same item multiple times. though this largely defeats the purpose of RNG other then to randomize the order in which you receive your needed 14 items. So I don't think they will do this. They might do it in some modified form.. where after X drops of the same item, they block that item by filtering.

 

Have you got that... or do I need to make it even clearer somehow?

Edited October 19, 2016 by Andryah

[TUXs]

1) I support them adding Discipline filtering to account for tank/dps/healer secondary stat differences.

2) I also support some form of filtering to mitigate RNG dropping the same item multiple times. though this largely defeats the purpose of RNG other then to randomize the order in which you receive your needed 14 items.

The problem with #1 is, sometimes you need that healer stat on your DPS toon to get BiS.

The problem with #2 is, sometimes you need 2 boots because the glove stats are not optimized.

 

Try as hard as you want, but there is NO good way to spin RNG.

[Jadescythe]

Here.. let me be clear through recap since you are either ignoring what I have said in multiple threads on the same topic or willfully choosing conflict as an approach to discussion.....

 

1) I support them adding Discipline filtering to account for tank/dps/healer secondary stat differences.

2) I also support some form of filtering to mitigate RNG dropping the same item multiple times. though this largely defeats the purpose of RNG other then to randomize the order in which you receive your needed 14 items.

 

Ok, I don't get it. How can this be your position while you complain about all the people saying the same thing? We're all fine with this system as long as we aren't relying on RNG to determine if we get gear or not, so let's all be friends?

[Shwarzchild]

I'm sorry... are you of the position that GC boxes do in fact = BattleMaster boxes [the topic of this thread]? if so.. we are at an impasse because you are ignoring known facts.

 

Setting aside your desire to attack me for expressing an opinion.. I have been quite clear about the adjustments I think they should make to the loot table filtering, while also noting that if they don't it's certainly not the tragedy some are portraying.

 

Here.. let me be clear through recap since you are either ignoring what I have said in multiple threads on the same topic or willfully choosing conflict as an approach to discussion.....

 

1) I support them adding Discipline filtering to account for tank/dps/healer secondary stat differences.

2) I also support some form of filtering to mitigate RNG dropping the same item multiple times. though this largely defeats the purpose of RNG other then to randomize the order in which you receive your needed 14 items.

 

Have you got that... or do I need to make it even clearer somehow?

 

So you support things that the system doesn't have. Gotcha. If only I could live

On what I think things should have instead of what they actually have. Are you positive it's me who is ignoring facts?

 

And yes this rng system, as currently stated, uses the same principle that the batemaster bags used So they are absolutely comparable.

[IanArgent]

This is my problem with the system. Why leave the speed of gearing up to RNG, even with a mechanic that guarantees (which this system doesn't technically do) a certain rate of progression? If you want it to take 500 heroics, 30 flashpoints, 2 operations, and the KotET story to reach max level, then do it. Don't make that the requirement with the chance of getting gear faster by being really lucky or you'll just alienate the unlucky players.

 

For the entertainment value, basically. There are people who do and will love an RNG box, for the "what's inside of it" factor; and for the non-gear items, I think it's OK to leave that up to an RNG. I'm also approaching this from a "they can twist the dials, but not change the actual mechanics" POV. We're getting random boxes, what can still be done to offset the issue.

 

All of which could in fact be contrived and never happen.

 

The part where, unless there is a way to completely avoid the RNG entirely, at some point your ability to participate in content that requires top-shelf gear is dependent on the RNG producing the item you need. That's not contrived, at some point this will happen. I've pointed out a couple of ways the existing design as-described can still be flexed to avoid this eventuality. But unless you can open a box and get the single piece you need out of it, guaranteed, then your ability to participate in certain content is gated by the RNG, at some point.

 

What has been disclosed so far is that GC boxes will work based on filtering for your AC and hence narrows the randomness significantly. Yet some people insist GC boxes will be BattleMaster boxes all over again. And when that gets objective push back they shift to compaing to Alliance Crates. Next it will be some other RNG disaster they can recall from the past and run that theater performance.

 

The only issue I can see with GC boxes is that they appear, at this point in time, to ignore Discipline filtering. Honestly, while I think filtering should include Discipline filtering... its certainly not a disaster if they don't. Why? Because you do not tune for discipline from the armor mod (which carries the set bonus that everyone insists is critical), and it's simple to adjust the mod or enhancement slots to custom tune to your discipline or preference (which only even applies for the most difficult end game uses to begin with).

 

Set bonus is carried by armor plates that cannot be crafted. You can only get them by the dictates of the RNG. Today's game design says set bonus is carried by an armor plate that is slot-locked. No matter what the threshold is for anyone to "need" set bonus (and, recall, that I've argued that set bonus should be available simply for being max level, and other people have argued that you only need it for >SM-level PvE content), at some point you need "set bonus." With unavoidable RNG, you have a point at which your ability to progress to that content is gated by RNG.

 

Even if that point is as the l33test raiders have proposed, and you only "need" set bonus to defeat Revan in ToS, or I am correct that there are players who "need" set bonus to participate in Story Mode content; the point still remains that you can be in a situation where if you had it, you could participate, but if it doesn't drop in this crate, you can't. This is not something amenable to fixing by changing (fixed) drop rates, you need other mechanisms. Which mostly don't exist today.

 

This drama over RNG is not only misplaced, it is making a mountain out of a molehill in advance of actually playing. Typical for this forum population though... so no real surprise here. The forum will just double down on the toxic rhetoric until they have something else to wrap in toxic rhetoric. They also will try to silence anyone that disagrees with them, as they always do. All we need to get off the RNG rampage is for the studio to say something, anything, that the armchair designers don't like.

 

There are plenty of places RNG is appropriate. Getting must-have gear is not one of them. Until and unless "set bonus" is moved into the classes and out of the realm of "drop tables only," RNG is an inappropriate mechanic for obtaining it.

 

(If crafters could make set bonus gear, that would also be fine)

[Andryah]

And yes this rng system, as currently stated, uses the same principle that the batemaster bags used So they are absolutely comparable.

 

NO.. they are not.

 

For GC boxes, the closest equivalent in game RNG box mechanic we have is Heroic boxes (minus the choice of Tank or DPS/Heal box). Having used those boxes on multiple alts over the last year, I can personally state that they work pretty well, even though they are RNG based. Why? Because they filter for your class and your level... so the actual loot table for any given character is very narrow and hence while you can get some repeat drops... you generally can keep your gear set close to level appropriate as you run Heroics.

 

BattleMaster boxes were failures on multiple levels, and I have yet to see a repeat of that methodology since.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Set bonus is carried by armor plates that cannot be crafted. You can only get them by the dictates of the RNG.

 

Agreed.

 

And.. you have a 1 in 14 chance on each box to get exactly the armor piece you want. That is if the box drops only one piece of armor (we don't know on that yet). Then you can either pull it and put in moddable armor, or use the armor and simply change out the mod or enhancement if you wish, to refine for Discipline/Preference.

 

Given how I have seen Heroic boxes work with essentially the same 1 in 14 chance (7.14%) ... they worked pretty well with a narrow filter approach.

 

The issue of wanting Tank vs DPS or Healer drops is not impacted by the armor slot. That is a separate, and less important challenge... given that what most people covet are those set bonuses tagged by the armor slot.

 

Statistically, a player will have at least one of each item for their AC by the time they have opened the 30th box. Of course RNG can be either harsh or friendly.. so some will do better and others will do worse.

 

Now, I know that people want the approach taken with OPs. But they are forgetting that they will have access to many more boxes then they will ever need as they level GC, AND they have many ways to earn points.. not just through OPs. IF the boxes were an OPs only point of reward, I would agree with people wanting the OP approach to gear rewards... but it's not what they are doing, and I think some people are failing to look at the whole picture.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Andryah

[phalczen]

I have to admit, that seeing Musco's posts today confirming that

1) Everyone in the group will get a CXP trophy from each boss kill

2) Trash, and adds, for the most part, since they are mostly Golds, will also award CXP

 

that I do feel better about the rate at which we'll be earning the crates. The problems and pitfalls of the system remain, and as you get higher in rank your chances of getting something you need go down pretty significantly, as I've demonstrated.

 

It may not be accurate to say that the crates will be flowing like water, but it does seem like doing an operation, between trash, adds, bosses, and the Weekly, will net a decent amount of CXP, especially if its a highlighted activity for the day.

 

It will certainly be more palatable to raiders and pvp'ers alike if set bonus items from the new command crates will stack with pre-5.0 pve or pvp set bonuses.

 

Regardless of what I perceive to be good news from Musco today, it still doesn't answer concerns about pvp'ers though. Will CXP be awarded just as readily from unranked warzones as a story mode operation?