Galactic Command =/= Battlemaster Bags

[Aowin]

The announcement of the new endgame progression system known as "Galactic Command" has stirred quite an uproar from the community, and rightfully so. A lot is changing and we don't really know how that will ultimately impact the longevity of the experience.

 

One of the biggest concerns many have with this new way of getting the best gear in the game is the "RNG" mechanic behind it. I've been seeing a lot of folks compare this to battlemaster bags at launch, and to be quite honest that's a horrible comparison. I'll explain why.

 

I was one of the first battlemasters (valor 60) on Shien when the game launched. I was the second player (first republic player) to achieve the battlemaster mount (valor 65) on Shien. I'm probably one of the few PVPers who has been around long enough and actually had to deal with the horrific battlemaster bag system to actually address this issue.

 

I'll tell you why BioWare's new "Galactic Command" RNG is 100% better than battlemaster bags:

 

For one, you are always guaranteed a piece of gear with these galactic command crates. Whereas with the battlemaster bags you had a 25% chance to get a battlemaster commendation, of which you needed multiple commendations to get a piece of battlemaster gear. In other words, you had a 75% chance of getting absolutely nothing opening a bag.

 

Secondly, you can disintegrate any duplicate gear pieces you get, increasing your progress to your next galactic command level and next gear piece. With battlemaster bags, you could only get them once a week as they were tied to the PvP weekly. Thus, it took me many months to actually get a full set of battlemaster gear. That won't be the case with Galactic Command as you can level as much as you want based on how much you play.

 

Is RNG still a questionable means for progression? Sure, I'll agree with that sentiment. However, this is not anywhere as bad as battlemaster bags were at launch. We at least are guaranteed something and we don't have to wait a week to see if we have better luck next time. This system isn't perfect, but it's far from the horrible joke that was PvP progression at launch.

 

It's also worth pointing out that crafters will be able to make gear that is competitive to the best gear in the game. The difference is crafted gear won't have a set piece bonus. So if you happen to have terrible RNG luck, you aren't completely in a situation where you are outclassed and out-geared. That was the case with RNG during launch for PvP.

 

I'm willing to give it a shot and see how this new Galactic Command system works in practice.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Aowin

[peter_plankskull]

So one is crap, the other is crap too, only it's not as bad as its more.. solidly ....and... and ill stop their. So then its okay to have a system that's terrible in function, only if it functions slightly better than a previous crap shoot? Anything to defend precious Bioware now... is it?

[Ligurio]

For one, you are always guaranteed a piece of gear with these galactic command crates.

Being honestly curious : is that sure ?

[Andryah]

People are focused on the RNG aspect . .. but in reality.. it is the actual loot tables behind the RNG that matter.

 

Until I can see the loot itemizations and get a feel for how they parse the loot table.. it's silly to get worked up about RNG.

 

People need to stop reacting and sit down and do some thoughtful analysis on what has been disclosed. There is no evidence that RNG will be harsh here... just that it is RNG.

 

We know loot tables will tune to your advanced class.

We know that for GC.. it's all level 70 access

We know therefore that class appropriate and level appropriate items will drop. We just don't know specifically which one.

We also know that said boxes will drop non gear items as well in the box.. (could include very rare crafting mats)

 

The prudent thing right now is to relax and not project doom and gloom pessimism.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

So one is crap, the other is crap too, only it's not as bad as its more.. solidly ....and... and ill stop their. So then its okay to have a system that's terrible in function, only if it functions slightly better than a previous crap shoot? Anything to defend precious Bioware now... is it?

 

Peter, unless you are on the play test team in Austin, you simply do not know this for sure.

 

And we know that since you posted, you are not on a play test team.

 

It's healthy to be skeptical, but this is a bit much in my opinion..... you are declaring failure in advance of actually getting to play it.

[peter_plankskull]

People are focused on the RNG aspect . .. but in reality.. it is the actual loot tables behind the RNG that matter.

 

Until I can see the loot itemizations and get a feel for how they parse the loot table.. it's silly to get worked up about RNG.

 

People need to stop reacting and sit down and do some thoughtful analysis on what has been disclosed. There is no evidence that RNG will be harsh here... just that it is RNG.

 

We know loot tables will tune to your advanced class.

We know that for GC.. it's all level 70 access

We know therefore that class appropriate and level appropriate items will drop. We just don't know specifically which one.

We also know that said boxes will drop non gear items as well in the box.. (could include very rare crafting mats)

 

The prudent thing right now is to relax and not project doom and gloom pessimism.

 

Just the idea of having a RNG dependent gear system is enough to turn people off, something like that is a god awful system which should never be used. The idea of your progression being dependent on luck should never be a factor, at all, and it was bad before, but it's likely to be far worse now.

 

The prudent thing right now is to relax, have a calm mind, and speak your opinion, regardless if you agree or disagree with the studios movement.

[IanArgent]

Being honestly curious : is that sure ?

 

"Get Command Crates when you level up a rank, these crates have gear, vanity items, and crafting mats"

 

That doesn't say every crate has all 3 types of items; but if it doesn't have "gear plus" there's going to be even more screaming. The comparable boxes (heroic rewards) have "gear plus" regardless of whether it's an alliance box or a leveling gear box.

 

The answer is, as with a lot of this, "wait and see."

[Andryah]

"Get Command Crates when you level up a rank, these crates have gear, vanity items, and crafting mats"

 

That doesn't say every crate has all 3 types of items; but if it doesn't have "gear plus" there's going to be even more screaming. The comparable boxes (heroic rewards) have "gear plus" regardless of whether it's an alliance box or a leveling gear box.

 

The answer is, as with a lot of this, "wait and see."

 

I'm going to bet that they follow their established model for CM boxes, DvL boxes, and Heroic drop boxes.

[peter_plankskull]

Peter, unless you are on the play test team in Austin, you simply do not know this for sure.

 

And we know that since you posted, you are not on a play test team.

 

It's healthy to be skeptical, but this is a bit much in my opinion..... you are declaring failure in advance of actually getting to play it.

 

Any form of RNG system to progress is bad, no matter what. Their are some considerations to be done with most updates, but this is one we have had for years in gaming, and no one likes it, at all, hence why almost everything RNG is merely cosmetic now. The studio, just like anyone else, can make mistakes, it's our job to make sure they don't implement bad systems like this while not barraging them with insults, however, they need to be told they messed up at times. Were all human, it's inevitable, and okay, but defending them at every turn, much like barraging them, isn't going to fix anything.

[Ligurio]

We know loot tables will tune to your advanced class.

We know therefore that class appropriate and level appropriate items will drop. We just don't know specifically which one.

 

A character use 14 items : ear, 2 implants, 2 relics, main hand, off hand and 7 armor pieces.

Let's say that you only need 2 of the same implant and that a dps and a healer use the same weapons, off hands, earpieces, implants and relics.

A loot table tuned to the commando would have 20 items : earpiece, one implant, one main weapon, one off hand, 2 relics and 2 sets of 7 armor pieces.

 

That means that for my commando healer, every crate will have 7/20 items I don't want and don't need. Sure that's a better rate than the 25% for battlemaster. Forgive me if I'm still not that happy.

 

And that's worse for the advanced class with tank and dps disciplines.

[Andryah]

Any form of RNG system to progress is bad, no matter what.

 

Opinion presented as fact.

 

MMOs are crammed full of RNG on so many aspects/things that in fact DO impact player progress. RNG can hand you your backside in an encounter in spite of the best efforts of player or team of players. If you are a crafter, then you are always at the mercy of RNG. If you run crew missions, you are owned by RNG. It goes on and on.

 

Personally, I am neutral on the RNG issue.. until I see it work in 5.0. None of us have enough information yet to condemn OR validate. If you stay on the condemnation path, then expect contrasting opinions.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

A character use 14 items : ear, 2 implants, 2 relics, main hand, off hand and 7 armor pieces.

Let's say that you only need 2 of the same implant and that a dps and a healer use the same weapons, off hands, earpieces, implants and relics.

A loot table tuned to the commando would have 20 items : earpiece, one implant, one main weapon, one off hand, 2 relics and 2 sets of 7 armor pieces.

 

That means that for my commando healer, every crate will have 7/20 items I don't want and don't need. Sure that's a better rate than the 25% for battlemaster. Forgive me if I'm still not that happy.

 

And that's worse for the advanced class with tank and dps disciplines.

 

We don't know for sure yet, but they may in fact have an adaptive-formula in the loot table. We know they do for class and level, so why not for gear itemization as well (taking into account what you already have one)? I'm not saying they do, I am just saying they have demonstrated the ability to do so since 4.0 released. We have to wait and see how it works, in my view, rather then adopt a scorched earth approach based on limited information so far.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Andryah

[peter_plankskull]

If you stay on the condemnation path, then expect contrasting opinions.

 

Not gonna lie... I got a chuckle here. Not to mention... to be fair... this thread was in validation for the update, given, mine was also "condemnation" and a reactant to the supposed endless cycle, but I suppose I could of approached it better.

 

To have something reliant on luck, rather than skill, is bad imo. Yes, it's in past games I have played and in this one, but not to such a large degree as it will be in the further patch.

[IanArgent]

I'm going to bet that they follow their established model for CM boxes, DvL boxes, and Heroic drop boxes.

 

Which are all "gear plus" (with the caveat that CM/DvL/Alliance crates may have non-gear cosmetic items in the "gear" slot, because everything they drop is "cosmetic")

[Andryah]

We do know one thing for sure.. there will be no BattleMaster drops in the loot table.

[IanArgent]

We do know one thing for sure.. there will be no BattleMaster drops in the loot table.

 

Which is a shame, I'd love 85 tons of assault 'mech to punt puny recon walkers with.

[CorellianWannabe]

 

MMOs are crammed full of RNG on so many aspects/things that in fact DO impact player progress. RNG can hand you your backside in an encounter in spite of the best efforts of player or team of players. If you are a crafter, then you are always at the mercy of RNG. If you run crew missions, you are owned by RNG. It goes on and on.

 

Really? If I craft blue stims I'm at the mercy of RNG? I foolishly thought it was guaranteed.

[Andryah]

Really? If I craft blue stims I'm at the mercy of RNG? I foolishly thought it was guaranteed.

 

Crits dude... crits.

 

And of course... REing for better items.

 

RNG is at play in both. Happily, they took a nerf knife to the crit and RE rates in 4.0. Let that be a lesson as to what they can do on loot tables and RNG on the new incoming boxes.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Andryah

[IanArgent]

Crits dude... crits.

 

And of course... REing for better items.

 

They reduced the RNG factor for RE - it's now 60% for an advanced schematic (only only one "upgrade path") vs the old 20% and up to, what, 5 different possible upgrades?

[peter_plankskull]

They reduced the RNG factor for RE - it's now 60% for an advanced schematic (only only one "upgrade path") vs the old 20% and up to, what, 5 different possible upgrades?

 

Theirs now only one RE recipe hidden now... at least for implants, mods, enhancements, and armorings... god... ill dread going through that armor. Still, I would prefer having no RNG at all, but the RNG for crafting is minor and a side project in the game compared to obtaining gear now which will be the main focus.

[CorellianWannabe]

It's also worth pointing out that crafters will be able to make gear that is competitive to the best gear in the game. The difference is crafted gear won't have a set piece bonus. So if you happen to have terrible RNG luck, you aren't completely in a situation where you are outclassed and out-geared. That was the case with RNG during launch for PvP.

 

Like now, or actually make gear at the same item level? Right now you can make 208, be forced to acquire garbage from Hard mode flashpoints to make unmoddable 212, and not be 'competitive' with raid loot.

 

So the best answer would still seem to be: pvp for comms, rip out armor for set bonus, pair with crafted mods for best itemization, and consider the character done.

[TUXs]

Gating GEAR behind RNG luck, in a GEAR focused game, is STUPID! RNG is a proven loser. RNG based gearing has failed IN THIS VERY GAME before.

 

What happens when you have 8 players ready to go, but one too many DPS? Do you think players will be happy to swap to heal or tank like they do now? HELL NO! Not only will they not get the new XP by doing this on the toon they wanted, they now won't get the freaking GEAR they wanted either. With tokens, it didn't matter...it encouraged players to try something new because they'd still get the token they were after. What happens when you get booted from your raid team because your RNG has sucked and you can't even get a 4-piece set?

 

There is NOTHING good about RNG based gearing. NOTHING! It has already failed in this game...and they brought it back?! WHAT THE HELL???

Edited October 18, 2016 by TUXs

[Jadescythe]

You're basically saying that the new system just isn't as bad as the old system. But the problem with the old system was when you got something and didn't need it, so it was totally worthless to you. The new system is the same way, even if the drop rates are to be better (still only a possibility at this point) and if you get some partial return on investment for destroying them. It doesn't stop the feeling you have when you get a pack and you already have the piece. Any reward that doesn't reward you is a bad system.

[peter_plankskull]

You're basically saying that the new system just isn't as bad as the old system. But the problem with the old system was when you got something and didn't need it, so it was totally worthless to you. The new system is the same way, even if the drop rates are to be better (still only a possibility at this point) and if you get some partial return on investment for destroying them. It doesn't stop the feeling you have when you get a pack and you already have the piece. Any reward that doesn't reward you is a bad system.

 

It's no point, he's been arguing with Gabigool in another thread for awhile now. Gabigool is one of the most sensible people on the forums imo, and if he can't get through someone, then it's unlikely anyone else can or will try like he does.

[gabigool]

One of the biggest concerns many have with this new way of getting the best gear in the game is the "RNG" mechanic behind it. I've been seeing a lot of folks compare this to battlemaster bags at launch, and to be quite honest that's a horrible comparison. I'll explain why.

 

It's the single most relevant comparison in this game.

 

The ratios will differ. So what. It's the exact same concept. You have no idea what you will get. You might get what you need, but you might get garbage. Period.