OMG Something nearly everyone agrees with

[kodrac]

I'm NOT wrong about my feelings on it.

 

But it's possible you could be. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong. Not that I'm defending RNG, it sucks, but anger gives you (in general you) tunnel vision. Blanket statements like the quoted one based on emotions blind you to other possibilities - at least for the time being.

[TUXs]

But it's possible you could be. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong. Not that I'm defending RNG, it sucks, but anger gives you (in general you) tunnel vision. Blanket statements like the quoted one based on emotions blind you to other possibilities - at least for the time being.

I'm not angry at all. This game can fold for all I care...I don't want it too, but I have no issue moving on if it does. What I'm expressing is passion. Passion for trying to prevent a terrible mistake from happening. I've been here since launch, I've seen RNG bags in action here. I KNOW the frustration they caused and it's not going to be any different here...RNG for gear, in a gear based progression game, is a TERRIBLE idea. It will hurt this game.

[CorellianWannabe]

But it's possible you could be. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong. Not that I'm defending RNG, it sucks, but anger gives you (in general you) tunnel vision. Blanket statements like the quoted one based on emotions blind you to other possibilities - at least for the time being.

 

How is it possible to be wrong about your feelings about something?

[kodrac]

How is it possible to be wrong about your feelings about something?

 

Have you ever had a moment where you think 'damn this sucks' and then after thinking about it you go 'oooohhh, well that's not so bad. I was totally wrong'. ?

[kodrac]

I'm not angry at all. This game can fold for all I care...I don't want it too, but I have no issue moving on if it does. What I'm expressing is passion. Passion for trying to prevent a terrible mistake from happening. I've been here since launch, I've seen RNG bags in action here. I KNOW the frustration they caused and it's not going to be any different here...RNG for gear, in a gear based progression game, is a TERRIBLE idea. It will hurt this game.

 

This game just needs more variety in its gearing pathway. I play other games that are totally RNG based, but they're fun games because the activities you do to get to the RNG boxes are fun. And there's plenty of ways of acquiring the items you want. That's why I'm in wait in see mode. Yes the old RNG in this game was terribad, and BW will most likely fook it up, but there is the possibility it won't turn out so bad. They just need more ways than a handful of ops or dozen flashpoints to do, or the same warzone over and over. Break up the monotony.

[CorellianWannabe]

Have you ever had a moment where you think 'damn this sucks' and then after thinking about it you go 'oooohhh, well that's not so bad. I was totally wrong'. ?

 

So a player experienced RNG loot in this game and disliked it. Five years later RNG loot is coming back and the player should assume that they might be wrong in their dislike of RNG loot as a concept?

 

I don't like tea-black/green/white/hot/iced/whatever. I've tried several varieties and can't stand any of them. In fact I could go so far as to say I hate tea.

If you try to tell me I'm wrong about my feelings regarding tea it will not 'open my mind' to the possibility that my taste buds could be wrong for not liking the beverage.

[Icykill_]

Nice try. I love the changes. It is causing all the whiners and crybabies to leave so we can have a nice community here where people get along instead of all the negative posts.

 

If we all left the game would close because there would be no one left... just because people are passionate about something and disagree with the path the game is taking doesn't mean they are whiners or crybabies, it means they genuinely care about the state of the game. If they didn't, they wouldn't post, they would just leave with no feed back.

If we don't communicate our thought to the company, how will they know what we want (not that they listen) or why something fails.

You are certainly within your rights to disagree and say you love the changes, but you are in the extreme minority of the player base who frequents the forums. We could easily say you are just trolling to get an adverse reaction, even though you might secretly agree with us... but no one is accusing you of that or yelling insults for disagreeing.

How about if you have nothing positive to say to us all that isn't polite, you stop posting negatively to us.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Icykill_

[kodrac]

So a player experienced RNG loot in this game and disliked it. Five years later RNG loot is coming back and the player should assume that they might be wrong in their dislike of RNG loot as a concept?

 

I don't like tea-black/green/white/hot/iced/whatever. I've tried several varieties and can't stand any of them. In fact I could go so far as to say I hate tea.

If you try to tell me I'm wrong about my feelings regarding tea it will not 'open my mind' to the possibility that my taste buds could be wrong for not liking the beverage.

 

The point clearly went way over your head. The person I was talking to got it. You're just pissed and need an axe to grind. Take it out on Bioware. Toodles.

[BobTheTeepo]

Wrong about how I feel about RNG gearing? I'm NOT wrong about my feelings on it. RNG gearing has NO PLACE in this game. It was tried, it failed. Unlike you, I've already experienced it here, in this game, with PvP armor...it was a nightmare.

 

You know what's damaging to this game? People too busy kissing up to acknowledge a devastating mistake when they see it. RNG gearing is that mistake...there's no question in my mind that it is a terrible idea that will harm this game.

 

Wrong that it's bad for the game. You feel ill about it, not for some arbitrary personal reason, but because you think it's bad for the game or bad for your experience with it.

 

Unlike me? Dude how many times do I have to say I've pvp'd since launch lol, I'm a closed alpha tester, you've done almost nothing that I haven't done (except ops and maybe RP). Seriously man, you make all kinds of claims without any backing.

 

Like I've said, you've already made up your mind. Even if it were great and did belong in the game, you've already said you won't even consider it. No point in discussing whether it's good or not for the game with someone who won't even consider it.

 

For the record, I argue against pure RNG gearing. I've said so in many threads already that I'm not especially happy with that particular decision. But go ahead and keep labeling me as the bad guy because I think *YOUR* personal reasons are weak and poorly considered.

 

I don't have to be against you (and I'm not in this case) to believe that your reasoning is wrong. Stop seeing me as the enemy and realize we're both just players that want the game to do better. The difference is, I don't want Bioware damaging their own game because I won't consider the possibility that my pre-conceived notions of how bad/good a feature is may *MAY* be wrong.

 

The difference between you and me is that I control my emotions. I have pre-conceived notions, but I stay open to the option that they may be wrong. I'm willing to wait to see if something is bad, and then I'll start criticizing it. I'm skeptical about pure RNG right now. If they overtune how long it takes, it will be disastrous. They're walking a fine line, one that I hope they can manage. But, I'm actually open to the possibility that they can show me I'm wrong about this. I'll wait and see, remaining skeptical but open.

Edited October 19, 2016 by BobTheTeepo

[diablosblack]

I never thought I'd see the day when nearly the whole swtor population agreed on the same thing. If someone had asked me if this was possible, I would have told them they'd have better luck buying a lotto ticket.

 

It seem just about every thing I've read about the live stream and the posts by Bioware has caused the community to rage at them. Nobody seems to happy with any of these changes. Sure there might be one or two out there, but the overwhelming majority think the whole thing is a terrible idea.

 

Do they even listen to what the players want and demand... are any of the decision or ideas people even gamers... do they not even look back at their own game and see what failed in the past, only to implement it again 😕

Its like they all sit around a table and brain fart at each other and there is no faeces 💩 filter before it hits the board of ideas. There is so much extrament on that board that they can't recognise what is fibre and what is cancer.

 

Maybe they should use focus groups from the player base and not their own office or their families and friends.

 

There maybe one or two ok things coming in 5.0, but they are completely over shadowed by the amount extrament covering it.

 

After seeing such a big community reaction and rejection to this, I would put the expansion on hold, I'd take it out the back and use a firehouse on it to clean it up.. give it some Prozac, put it in some clean clothes and ask some friends to come over and see if it is presentable to go out in public

 

 

 

Right now, I am in full agreement. What is irritating me right now is how we're going to be getting our gear drops. They say it's going to be based off your advanced class. So you could be a tank, but you'll most likely get DPS gear a lot. So you're forced to grind over and over and over until you get the gear you want. Especially if you're one of the more stubborn ones like me and from what I'm seeing, they are forcing people to do things they don't want to do again. Example, PVE players doing PVP. No one likes being forced to do things they don't want to do and that's what they're doing.

[Dweessies]

Right now, I am in full agreement. What is irritating me right now is how we're going to be getting our gear drops. They say it's going to be based off your advanced class. So you could be a tank, but you'll most likely get DPS gear a lot. So you're forced to grind over and over and over until you get the gear you want. Especially if you're one of the more stubborn ones like me and from what I'm seeing, they are forcing people to do things they don't want to do again. Example, PVE players doing PVP. No one likes being forced to do things they don't want to do and that's what they're doing.

 

One quibble, I don't see where they're forcing us to do other things than what we like, unless of course they go nuts with lock-outs and we run out of the fun stuff each week. From what I've seen, they're trying to reward doing anything in the game (but probably not equally of course as this will be one more place where balance will be impossible to achieve). Of course, this is EA, so I could be wrong.

 

Other than that, I say we barricade the servers, wave a bunch of impossibly big red flags, and sing songs from the soundtrack of 'Les Mis' until the RNG focus is rolled back.

 

Probably wouldn't work, but it might be more entertaining than forum PVP.

[Kallie]

If we all left the game would close because there would be no one left... just because people are passionate about something and disagree with the path the game is taking doesn't mean they are whiners or crybabies, it means they genuinely care about the state of the game. If they didn't, they wouldn't post, they would just leave with no feed back.

If we don't communicate our thought to the company, how will they know what we want (not that they listen) or why something fails.

You are certainly within your rights to disagree and say you love the changes, but you are in the extreme minority of the player base who frequents the forums. We could easily say you are just trolling to get an adverse reaction, even though you might secretly agree with us... but no one is accusing you of that or yelling insults for disagreeing.

How about if you have nothing positive to say to us all that isn't polite, you stop posting negatively to us.

 

What I see is the minority complaining and it is usually the same people over and over. Only a minority of the players visit the forums

[Rolodome]

What I see is the minority complaining and it is usually the same people over and over. Only a minority of the players visit the forums

I can only speculate as to how many visit the forums out of the entire playerbase, but one has to take into account that for every person who posts a complaint or affirmation of the system, there is likely a sizable number who is aware of the changes and has the same opinion, but is not going to the forums and posting it. Then you have all the people who aren't aware of the changes at all... they are wild cards, you don't know whether they'll like it or not.

 

But, for all the dismissal that "vocal minority complaining" gets, there is some truth to be had in the fact that the "vocal minority" are often some of the most passionate fans the game has and if you lose a sizable number of them, that's not exactly good for the health of the game. The foundation of the community for any game like this is built on its most passionate fans. Those pillars are never the majority, but they are pillars nonetheless and without them, the community isn't going to crumble... I'm not making this some chicken little thing. But the community will need other pillars to replace those it lost and many who rely on those pillars will follow them out the door.

 

Mind you, I'm not talking about these changes specifically. Just in general, the importance of not losing the most passionate and dedicated. That, I would postulate, is one of the reasons that game companies do (when possible, and to a limited extent) listen to the "vocal minority."

[Khevar]

What I see is the minority complaining and it is usually the same people over and over. Only a minority of the players visit the forums

A quick scan through your recent post history shows a decent amount of schadenfreude, but no actual reasoning other than you "like it because the whiners will leave".

 

Are you capable of putting together an actual coherent argument in favor of the new system on it's own merits?

 

I'd happily debate you on the subject, but you have to bring something of substance first.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Khevar

[Shwarzchild]

One quibble, I don't see where they're forcing us to do other things than what we like, unless of course they go nuts with lock-outs and we run out of the fun stuff each week. From what I've seen, they're trying to reward doing anything in the game (but probably not equally of course as this will be one more place where balance will be impossible to achieve). Of course, this is EA, so I could be wrong.

 

Other than that, I say we barricade the servers, wave a bunch of impossibly big red flags, and sing songs from the soundtrack of 'Les Mis' until the RNG focus is rolled back.

 

Probably wouldn't work, but it might be more entertaining than forum PVP.

 

I wanted to highlight that sentence. Not because it's inherently wrong or anything, but it's a tad bit misguided. Yes, we can get command points for doing the content we love to do. But no, it's actually not allowing players to run the content they want to do. The example I go with is upper tier raiding (which of course there are some that say this isnt the game to raid in, and while they aren't totally wrong they aren't totally right either). For each new tier/ expansion released, it was always a "start at the beginning again" moment for anyone like me who raids or wants to raid at high levels. The difference from before to what's being implemented in 5.0 was that I could get into story mode, and out of story mode, at an acceptable pace. I wasn't a hostage to a difficulty level I didn't want to be playing in. With this new system, I feel like I might (and Ill highlight my usage of the word might) be stuck at a level I have absolutely no desire to be playing at.

 

Coupled with the lack of new meaningful end game content (again my opinion), to ask me as a player to :

 

1) replay the content again for the 3rd-4th-5th straight year is a tough pill to swallow. This is something I can get past because the raids that are in this game are insanely fun. And, I still have some bosses on my check list. And again, they are touching on group content in January and that's just not too far off in the distance to me. So sure. Ok. No problem. I can stomach this.

 

2) Accept what potentially is a exponential increase to the grind that they already have presented me in game to get to the level I want to play at. Gear grinding has been one of those "necessary evils" you get through and then get on with your life in game quickly. It's never been, to me at least, the sole focus of what I'm trying to do. But, the game modes I like require the best gear available. I dislike story mode as a difficulty level, and I will avoid that level if I can in every single game I ever play, or spend as little time in it as I possibly can. It holds absolutely no value to me. If I want to attempt the nightmare chapters? Welp, that's off the table for however long this gearing takes cause the damage profile will destroy me because lack of gear. What about the uprisings on nightmare? Welp can't do those either cause the damage profile will destroy me because of lack of gear. What about nightmare operations where I spend the bulk of my time in game? Welp, gonna have to table that too.

 

Currently in 4.0 was the best gearing scenario I've encountered. Within the first month of play, I had both types of healers and the one type of dps I play geared appropriately (Full 224 on one healer class and one dps class, but full 6 piece sets on every character) . The gear grind was over, and for the rest of the expansion there was no barrier but my own skill level which is what I want most of all i.e the ability to test my skills against the highest challenges presented in this game. This new gearing strategy basically eliminates that ability for me. At least on the surface.

 

It's insane.

 

Now 4.0 had it's flaws for gearing. The Galactic Command 100 percent can rectify those flaws. Giving anyone and everyone access to the all levels of gear is a good thing. No issue there. Definitely a positive. No matter what content a player wants to run, if they can get to the point where the only question left is based on skill alone, that's a great thing in my book. But, gating the gear behind RNG is terrible. Not just RNG, but Advanced Class specific is worse. If they are so beholden to this idea RNG based gearing, I'd request they code it so it's discipline specific. The last thing I want to ever do in this game is grind my face off for gear....only to get something for a dps set I'll never ever use on my sawbones scoundrel. Then saying, well you can disintegrate it to recoup "some" command points so you can get a head start on your next command crate! Not only is my grinding for something random, it can be nullified and reset just by one bad crate drop. Second, I can't just swap to an alt to gain command points since...IT'S NOT LEGACY WIDE (Per Eric's post earlier)!

 

Asking me to grind grind grind. Ok, sure I can do it. I did DvL. I hated it but, you know what I wanted that companion so I did it. I enjoyed some of it. Hated some of it. But, I got to the goal. It was about the maximum grind I could stomach. This takes that grind and multiplies it by an exponential amount. It's just an insane thing to do.

 

There's better options too! Why can't each crate drop currency that can be used to purchase the gear you want (as one poster suggested)? How is that not a better solution? This is already in game in the form of jawa junk! It works PHENOMENAL for materials gathering!

 

I've posted, and I know others have posted the same idea, that the crates could drop tokens much like warzone commendations are, and you use those commendations to buy the gear you want. Again, ALSO in game already in the form of Gree, Bounty Broker, Rakgoul, and even PvP! They work great!

 

The theme is, take the gear treadmill down as much as possible and not raising it to unheard of levels.

 

Finally, this system has already been in this game once. No, it wasn't the same system used back at launch. But it was in principle very similar. It was widely hated. And, it was scrapped. And, it lead to the gearing method we have now in a sense. So why are they (Bioware) attempting to revive a concept that didn't work already? Why are we repeating history? It's literally mind boggling.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Shwarzchild

[Icykill_]

What I see is the minority complaining and it is usually the same people over and over. Only a minority of the players visit the forums

 

Seems to me that there are about 3-4 people arguing that it's good and ok... while everyone else is saying how bad it is... I would say 3-4 vs everyone else puts you in a minority?

 

But maybe I'm wrong.. I'm pretty sure 3-4 is lower than "say" 10+.. can someone get a calculator.. I only have 10 fingers and it's hard to count my toes with shoes on

[cool-dude]

People said essentially the same thing about level sync, yet after actually playing it.. even many of the very negative players about level sync actually turned around on that.

 

Maybe.. wait and play it before condemning it on the basis of limited information released so far.

 

True statement. I was one of those negatives that turned.

[Kallie]

A quick scan through your recent post history shows a decent amount of schadenfreude, but no actual reasoning other than you "like it because the whiners will leave".

 

Are you capable of putting together an actual coherent argument in favor of the new system on it's own merits?

 

I'd happily debate you on the subject, but you have to bring something of substance first.

 

Why should I. I have watched these forums over the years and watched all the people complain and whine. Why should I debate with whiners. Would rather just see them all leave.

[peter_plankskull]

Why should I. I have watched these forums over the years and watched all the people complain and whine. Why should I debate with whiners. Would rather just see them all leave.

 

You're whining about whiners and being completely antagonistic however at the same time yielding no constructive arguments. Reminds me of those who call a entire play style toxic, which, in itself, is toxic.

Edited October 19, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[Shwarzchild]

Why should I. I have watched these forums over the years and watched all the people complain and whine. Why should I debate with whiners. Would rather just see them all leave.

 

Unfortunately, just because you may not like the tone taken by people that does not make your stance correct. It even has the potential to make you equally as ignorant as the crowd you are attempting to hold yourself higher than from a moral stand point.

[Skummy]

I never thought I'd see the day when nearly the whole swtor population agreed on the same thing. If someone had asked me if this was possible, I would have told them they'd have better luck buying a lotto ticket.

 

It seem just about every thing I've read about the live stream and the posts by Bioware has caused the community to rage at them. Nobody seems to happy with any of these changes. Sure there might be one or two out there, but the overwhelming majority think the whole thing is a terrible idea.

 

Do they even listen to what the players want and demand... are any of the decision or ideas people even gamers... do they not even look back at their own game and see what failed in the past, only to implement it again 😕

Its like they all sit around a table and brain fart at each other and there is no faeces 💩 filter before it hits the board of ideas. There is so much extrament on that board that they can't recognise what is fibre and what is cancer.

 

Maybe they should use focus groups from the player base and not their own office or their families and friends.

 

There maybe one or two ok things coming in 5.0, but they are completely over shadowed by the amount extrament covering it.

 

After seeing such a big community reaction and rejection to this, I would put the expansion on hold, I'd take it out the back and use a firehouse on it to clean it up.. give it some Prozac, put it in some clean clothes and ask some friends to come over and see if it is presentable to go out in public

 

Yea its freaking amazing that most people are seeing eye to eye on these big changes to the game we all love and adore. But sadly that doesn't mean anything lol. I will sub for remaining two months and try a month of 5.0 but if its as bad as it sounds i will walk away. No you cant have my stuff ! my Rancors eat skrubz

[Zhedzaban]

Remember when the DvL was announced? Remember the rage that was splashed on this forum and others. There was genuine frothing at the mouth rage that BW were wasting time and resources making this event instead of making new operations or other new content.

 

I can't begin to count how many 'I quit' posts there were.

 

And guess what...the DvL event was a success by any measure. The amount of players participating surprised even me. My point is I take the comments on these forums and others like Reddit (or the insane irrational ramblings on Dulfy atm) with a grain of salt.

 

The reality is, all comments here are based on emotional responses. Only BW has access to relevant information as to what their players participate in and how they gear up. Everyone else's 'opinion' is just supposition and bias. I'll put my faith in BW again this time thanks, but please feel free to continue your ranting.

[NakodaTheJedi]

People said essentially the same thing about level sync, yet after actually playing it.. even many of the very negative players about level sync actually turned around on that.

 

Maybe.. wait and play it before condemning it on the basis of limited information released so far.

 

lol EVERYONE HATES LEVEL SYNC. everyone hates on easy it is to lvl up (maybe not right now with the dvl event coming to an end) Just because you don't see people spam posts about it doesn't mean they turned around on it. They just stopped whining cuz ea doesn't give a ****

[Vaalin]

Remember when the DvL was announced? Remember the rage that was splashed on this forum and others. There was genuine frothing at the mouth rage that BW were wasting time and resources making this event instead of making new operations or other new content.

.

 

I hated the DvL event, I did not participate in it at all and I still stand by the opinion that it was a colossal waste of time. Ohhhh boy, another nameless, storyless companion to fill the ranks of my growing army of other companions I will never use. I will say that the argument that they used resources that could have been used elsewhere is false though, DvL was mailed in by an intern, just like the past PVP season's rewards. Took no imagination, minor coding and virtually nothing in the art department. Just because you feel good that you got a lackluster event compared to the gree, or rakghoul well, good for being simple

[Rolodome]

I hated the DvL event, I did not participate in it at all and I still stand by the opinion that it was a colossal waste of time. Ohhhh boy, another nameless, storyless companion to fill the ranks of my growing army of other companions I will never use. I will say that the argument that they used resources that could have been used elsewhere is false though, DvL was mailed in by an intern, just like the past PVP season's rewards. Took no imagination, minor coding and virtually nothing in the art department. Just because you feel good that you got a lackluster event compared to the gree, or rakghoul well, good for being simple

Not gonna lie, I had some pretty disenfranchised moments resulting from DvL. If it hadn't been for the XP armor and comp, I probably would have either not done it at all, or done it and seriously reconsidered whether I should continue playing the game. The RNG boxes are awful and the fact that you could get one third of an armor set and still need the other two thirds is pretty irritating.