Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne

[Quraswren]

I like that everyone has access to them. I don't like that they're entirely reliant on RNG, as well as not having Command Rank being a legacy wide feature.

 

Edit: It really is that straight forward. I'm not going to mess around grinding Command Ranks per character, just to be screwed over by RNG each time, as well as bothering to gear .....20+ alts? Not happening.

 

Thats where I am. Screw leveling alts. It just isn't going to happen now. I got a full crew of alts but about 7 I really like to play and well thats done for this expansion. My play time already cut because of poor design on bws end.

 

I don't mind that gear is out there for everyone. I don't mind you can do any content to get any gear.

 

RNG gearing from loot crates however I cannot stand. RNG gearing is not something created to benefit the gamer. EVER. It's designed to be against you at all times.

 

Even the thought of RNG gearing at this point in SWTOR puts a damper on everything SWTOR could offer but then you add in command ranks for every single toon. Even if I narrow down alts to the few I really like, that grind on alt after alt. Well, thats simply not going to happen.

[IanArgent]

While discussing what a disaster this new system is going to be for PvP with some guildmates I think I might have stumbled onto a way that this can be fixed. The giant assumption I'm making is that Austin isn't married to imposing this epic grind that's fooling nobody.

 

Bolster everything. Bolster PvP instances to the top gear tier. Bolster NiM and HM instances to their minimum recommended gear tiers (eg. HM Ops would be 216, NiM 220). The PvP folks have the gear parity that is essential to their playstyle and the PvE folks can start with the difficulty mode they're interested in.

 

Getting back to where you were is NOT an incentive to engage in a lengthy grind. A lengthy grind preventing people from doing the content they're interested in is a huge disincentive to continuing to play.

 

This is just a band-aid. The real fix for PvE is to a return deterministic gear progression.

 

I had a similar thought about having a bolster that phased out as overall gear levels rose.

[Nulla-Gaudia]

@EricMusco

 

In an earlier post answering a question, you mentioned that CXP gained from Operations will factor in the number of players running with you, which would imply that you would get more CXP from doing 16-man Operations as opposed to 8-man Operations.

 

My question is can you fill us in with any information as to how Group Finder will work with 5.0?

-Will they add a feature to queue for 16-man Operations alongside 8-man? (I can see where this would conflict because if you fill an 8-man before a 16-man, odds are the 8-man would queue first. But for groups that form the 16-man before queuing up in GF, then they could queue and still receive a bonus.)

-Will Uprisings and their various difficulties be added to Group Finder?

 

EDIT: Also would it be possible to get any information regarding the state of Crafting in 5.0. Such as will the levels be increased from 550 to 600? Will the current crafting materials received from Operations (Exotic Isotope Equalizers, Dark Matter Catalysts, etc.) remain or will they be replaced with new materials?

Edited October 26, 2016 by Nulla-Gaudia

[Transcendent]

Thats where I am. Screw leveling alts. It just isn't going to happen now. I got a full crew of alts but about 7 I really like to play and well thats done for this expansion. My play time already cut because of poor design on bws end.

 

I don't mind that gear is out there for everyone. I don't mind you can do any content to get any gear.

 

RNG gearing from loot crates however I cannot stand. RNG gearing is not something created to benefit the gamer. EVER. It's designed to be against you at all times.

 

Even the thought of RNG gearing at this point in SWTOR puts a damper on everything SWTOR could offer but then you add in command ranks for every single toon. Even if I narrow down alts to the few I really like, that grind on alt after alt. Well, thats simply not going to happen.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

Although, for me 5.0 is going to be run once through the story. That is literally going to be 5.0 for me with the systems coming in if they stay as they intend to release them. I doubt I'll even try Uprisings.

 

I just can't face another game with RNG gearing.

[Fallen_Dragon]

I realize many of these things have been said however I'd like to voice my concerns:

 

First: From the things I've read it sounds like gear is no longer going to have mods at top level and going to be just like the heroics where you get full set pieces. This would seem odd if we didn't have the costume gear but this is the only way I can figure that the devs can control people from building a skank tank as you can run in tank form with tank armorings but still be modded for dps. I could be wrong but I think they have been conditioning us to remove the gear so you can buy mods for old shells but to have the set bonus you will have to run the rng set pieces.

 

Second, with all the passes now bound to legacy what are you going to do about the ability for people to go around the warzone for F2P if they que with a sub they don't need the pass they just get in? If you're not aware of this then you're dumb because it's been going on since F2P was introduced.

 

Third, this has been said before but why do solo players that just run story then quit have the need for nightmare level gear? Also, with the way things are set up the devs are forcing pvp'ers to have to run operations to gear faster so they are being forced to play a game they don't want. Do you not remember how many people were upset when they had to run a few pvp matches just to get a companion or an achievement for the DvL event?

 

Fourth, for those saying the they didn't like the implementation of level sync, but are OK with it now, you forget that even though you are level synced you don't lose your abilities so you are still more powerful and my nightmare level jugg will still walk through content my level 25 jugg will struggle through. I tested it.

 

Finally, for those that are happy with the new gear change, I don't agree that people that don't do the work should get the same gear. So I'm curious, will the next ranked season mean that we all get the same ranking as long as we participate? Everyone gets a trophy right? If I show up I should get the same rank as the person that puts in 8 hours of ranked games a day.

[Jadescythe]

I realize many of these things have been said however I'd like to voice my concerns:

 

First: From the things I've read it sounds like gear is no longer going to have mods at top level and going to be just like the heroics where you get full set pieces. This would seem odd if we didn't have the costume gear but this is the only way I can figure that the devs can control people from building a skank tank as you can run in tank form with tank armorings but still be modded for dps. I could be wrong but I think they have been conditioning us to remove the gear so you can buy mods for old shells but to have the set bonus you will have to run the rng set pieces.

 

I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but everything will still be moddable. You will get a piece just like you would for an operation token or with PvP comms that you can pull the parts out of. You will only get gear pieces to drop that match your discipline, so you just can't geat set piece gear for a Scoundrel on your Commando.

 

Second, with all the passes now bound to legacy what are you going to do about the ability for people to go around the warzone for F2P if they que with a sub they don't need the pass they just get in? If you're not aware of this then you're dumb because it's been going on since F2P was introduced.

 

I'm not sure why it would matter if they didn't care before. F2P players just won't gain cxp from their efforts and will have bad gear.

 

Third, this has been said before but why do solo players that just run story then quit have the need for nightmare level gear? Also, with the way things are set up the devs are forcing pvp'ers to have to run operations to gear faster so they are being forced to play a game they don't want. Do you not remember how many people were upset when they had to run a few pvp matches just to get a companion or an achievement for the DvL event?

 

Who needs top level gear outside of top level content? It just makes everything in the game easier and faster. I also don't see how your statement that PvPers will be forced to PvE is accurate as of this time. It very well may come true, but without seeing the actual cxp gain, we can't know for sure. All they've said is they intend to make ranked WZs and harder Ops give more cxp.

 

Fourth, for those saying the they didn't like the implementation of level sync, but are OK with it now, you forget that even though you are level synced you don't lose your abilities so you are still more powerful and my nightmare level jugg will still walk through content my level 25 jugg will struggle through. I tested it.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Level sync doesn't change your secondary stats or take away abilities, so yes, better gear makes you stronger even with level sync. If anything, this is a reason why everyone should have access to top end gear.

 

Finally, for those that are happy with the new gear change, I don't agree that people that don't do the work should get the same gear. So I'm curious, will the next ranked season mean that we all get the same ranking as long as we participate? Everyone gets a trophy right? If I show up I should get the same rank as the person that puts in 8 hours of ranked games a day.

 

You're just looking at things differently than myself or some others. They are doing just as much work as you are doing to gain cxp. The rewards for doing the NiM ops and ranked PvP are just changing from being cosmetics AND statted gear to just being cosmetics. It isn't like everyone gets the titles, mounts, or armor sets available to those who have or will complete that content get. Just like ranked PvP, PvE players will have access to exclusive items for doing harder group content, it just won't be for better stats.

[Fixingthegame]

I like that everyone has access to them. I don't like that they're entirely reliant on RNG, as well as not having Command Rank being a legacy wide feature.

 

Edit: It really is that straight forward. I'm not going to mess around grinding Command Ranks per character, just to be screwed over by RNG each time, as well as bothering to gear .....20+ alts? Not happening.

 

Noone is forcing you to gear 20+ alts except your consumerist obsession. Once you get over the idea of "must have the best gear" you will find this system to be vastly more enjoyable than the old one.

[Skummy]

Should leave the galatic command as it i dont have any problems with ppl gearing there own way. tera does that too you grind solo content ,group content, or pvp to get gear. But you get some sort of coms as you go to buy gear its not a rng based system. that why i played swtor after all these years always a forward grind as is dcuo. But this new system is dumb its a step backwards, we had this in 1.0 and it did so well. Why would you implement it back into the game. Guys took a left turn and never came back......... i hate to see this game go down the sh**ter but you should build upon what you have and improve...... Edited October 26, 2016 by Skummy

[DarthScruffy]

@EricMusco

 

In an earlier post answering a question, you mentioned that CXP gained from Operations will factor in the number of players running with you, which would imply that you would get more CXP from doing 16-man Operations as opposed to 8-man Operations.

 

My question is can you fill us in with any information as to how Group Finder will work with 5.0?

-Will they add a feature to queue for 16-man Operations alongside 8-man? (I can see where this would conflict because if you fill an 8-man before a 16-man, odds are the 8-man would queue first. But for groups that form the 16-man before queuing up in GF, then they could queue and still receive a bonus.)

-Will Uprisings and their various difficulties be added to Group Finder?

 

EDIT: Also would it be possible to get any information regarding the state of Crafting in 5.0. Such as will the levels be increased from 550 to 600? Will the current crafting materials received from Operations (Exotic Isotope Equalizers, Dark Matter Catalysts, etc.) remain or will they be replaced with new materials?

 

They need a merge/x-server plan or gearing is going to be excruciatingly slow.

[Fallen_Dragon]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but everything will still be moddable. You will get a piece just like you would for an operation token or with PvP comms that you can pull the parts out of. You will only get gear pieces to drop that match your discipline, so you just can't geat set piece gear for a Scoundrel on your Commando.

I hadn't seen the announcement about the gear being moddable only that it would be in the random boxes. So if I'm wrong there then I retract my statement.

 

I'm not sure why it would matter if they didn't care before. F2P players just won't gain cxp from their efforts and will have bad gear.

 

How? If they are in the WZ are they not getting the CXP how will that be different than if they use the pass, I haven't seen anything on that either. Not to mention with the way things tend to get messed up will this mean that F2P will get no CXP. Then what? Oh yeah the forums explode with F2P and Preferred freaking out. Oh and if you think they can't post here you're wrong.

Who needs top level gear outside of top level content? It just makes everything in the game easier and faster. I also don't see how your statement that PvPers will be forced to PvE is accurate as of this time. It very well may come true, but without seeing the actual cxp gain, we can't know for sure. All they've said is they intend to make ranked WZs and harder Ops give more cxp.

Easier and faster to do what your dailies? Then put in the money and the time, if not take extra time running your dailies. For the pvp part people generally want to get to the top of the group fast, you get more CXP for ops than you do WZs so where do you think they will go? Also with the rate that the ranked que drops as the season goes on most aren't going to get the CXP so where else will they go?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Level sync doesn't change your secondary stats or take away abilities, so yes, better gear makes you stronger even with level sync. If anything, this is a reason why everyone should have access to top end gear.

 

Not really like I said I ran the DK dailies on my 65 and 25 Jugg I forgot to mention my 65 Jugg was running naked except for his weapon. Try it you'll see.

You're just looking at things differently than myself or some others. They are doing just as much work as you are doing to gain cxp. The rewards for doing the NiM ops and ranked PvP are just changing from being cosmetics AND statted gear to just being cosmetics. It isn't like everyone gets the titles, mounts, or armor sets available to those who have or will complete that content get. Just like ranked PvP, PvE players will have access to exclusive items for doing harder group content, it just won't be for better stats.

 

This is just an illustration as to how someone that doesn't do the work or put in the money that I do can get the same things I can without offering the same input. Also, I don't like that I now have to hope I get the gear I need instead of being able to get the piece and move on instead I have to play the cartel boxes essentially only to get something I don't need and then try again next time. Plus as far as alts go, I use my main tank to also gear my alts. I don't run daily areas on my tank because as you pointed out earlier it takes to long so now I'm penalized because I use my tank to get what I need for my other toons as well, but that's over now.

 

Bud, I do hope you're right about some of these things, however I've been burned too many times.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Fallen_Dragon
Messed up the quote

[Fixingthegame]

I hadn't seen the announcement about the gear being moddable only that it would be in the random boxes. So if I'm wrong there then I retract my statement.

 

 

 

How? If they are in the WZ are they not getting the CXP how will that be different than if they use the pass, I haven't seen anything on that either. Not to mention with the way things tend to get messed up will this mean that F2P will get no CXP. Then what? Oh yeah the forums explode with F2P and Preferred freaking out. Oh and if you think they can't post here you're wrong.

 

Easier and faster to do what your dailies? Then put in the money and the time, if not take extra time running your dailies. For the pvp part people generally want to get to the top of the group fast, you get more CXP for ops than you do WZs so where do you think they will go? Also with the rate that the ranked que drops as the season goes on most aren't going to get the CXP so where else will they go?

 

 

Not really like I said I ran the DK dailies on my 65 and 25 Jugg I forgot to mention my 65 Jugg was running naked except for his weapon. Try it you'll see.

 

 

This is just an illustration as to how someone that doesn't do the work or put in the money that I do can get the same things I can without offering the same input. Also, I don't like that I now have to hope I get the gear I need instead of being able to get the piece and move on instead I have to play the cartel boxes essentially only to get something I don't need and then try again next time. Plus as far as alts go, I use my main tank to also gear my alts. I don't run daily areas on my tank because as you pointed out earlier it takes to long so now I'm penalized because I use my tank to get what I need for my other toons as well, but that's over now.

 

Bud, I do hope you're right about some of these things, however I've been burned too many times.

 

Get over yourself.

[robertthebard]

I hadn't seen the announcement about the gear being moddable only that it would be in the random boxes. So if I'm wrong there then I retract my statement.

 

 

 

How? If they are in the WZ are they not getting the CXP how will that be different than if they use the pass, I haven't seen anything on that either. Not to mention with the way things tend to get messed up will this mean that F2P will get no CXP. Then what? Oh yeah the forums explode with F2P and Preferred freaking out. Oh and if you think they can't post here you're wrong.

 

Easier and faster to do what your dailies? Then put in the money and the time, if not take extra time running your dailies. For the pvp part people generally want to get to the top of the group fast, you get more CXP for ops than you do WZs so where do you think they will go? Also with the rate that the ranked que drops as the season goes on most aren't going to get the CXP so where else will they go?

 

 

Not really like I said I ran the DK dailies on my 65 and 25 Jugg I forgot to mention my 65 Jugg was running naked except for his weapon. Try it you'll see.

 

 

This is just an illustration as to how someone that doesn't do the work or put in the money that I do can get the same things I can without offering the same input. Also, I don't like that I now have to hope I get the gear I need instead of being able to get the piece and move on instead I have to play the cartel boxes essentially only to get something I don't need and then try again next time. Plus as far as alts go, I use my main tank to also gear my alts. I don't run daily areas on my tank because as you pointed out earlier it takes to long so now I'm penalized because I use my tank to get what I need for my other toons as well, but that's over now.

 

Bud, I do hope you're right about some of these things, however I've been burned too many times.

 

We have this thing called a Dev Tracker. You can use it to fact check your rants, and save yourself a lot of embarrassment later. It's sort of er, silly, to go off of "he said/she said", when you can check it for yourself, and know what you're talking about before you start.

 

As far as gear goes, why does it matter? Who cares what Joe Casual has for gear? I mean, it's obvious that you do, but I'm more than a bit puzzled as to why? You haven't earned any gear under the new system yet, none of us have, it's not in yet, so it can't be that you feel cheated because you "worked so hard" to get it, right?

 

Dev Tracker

[Fallen_Dragon]

We have this thing called a Dev Tracker. You can use it to fact check your rants, and save yourself a lot of embarrassment later. It's sort of er, silly, to go off of "he said/she said", when you can check it for yourself, and know what you're talking about before you start.

 

As far as gear goes, why does it matter? Who cares what Joe Casual has for gear? I mean, it's obvious that you do, but I'm more than a bit puzzled as to why? You haven't earned any gear under the new system yet, none of us have, it's not in yet, so it can't be that you feel cheated because you "worked so hard" to get it, right?

 

Dev Tracker

 

You're right and I apologize. After getting over my tantrum I did go reread everything a little closer and I believe that when I saw that the gear I need was going to be locked behind the dreaded RNG the first time I momentarily lost my senses and stopped seeing the rest of the post just went full ID10T on the whole thing. I believe I began having flashbacks of lottery packs past and thinking that it would take months to get what I really wanted/needed instead of being able to get the exact item that I had spent my time and effort trying to get the same way I've dropped real money for nothing on the lottery packs that I stopped buying a long time ago for that specific reason.

 

As far as casuals, again while only seeing red it just felt like another slap in the face as I've run into people that tell me they hate this game could get to the same level I have without having to go through all the time effort and money I had put in. That's where the ranking example came from, I was attempting to make the feeling I was having relatable. Just hope I don't end up with 300 belts when all I need is a helmet or chest just to get my full set bonus.

[Daniel_Caparros]

I think that BW can make 2 changes and the RNG would a little more bearable:

 

• 
  Make the armoring that drop from the crate not slot bound, so if someone get their 15th belt they can put in another slot and complete the bonus set
  

• 
  Group the bonus set in tank/dps and healer, so if you have a 6/7 bonus set in a marauder you can give to your sniper and the bonus set will adapt to the class are you playing
  

[Drakhann]

I think having ears,implants and relics bound to legacy wouldn't be a luxury too.

RNGesus isn't fair as we all know and the actual system doesn't seems very "alt" friendly.

Devs needs to meet the player base half way.

 

Another great thing would be to get rid of the accuracy stat (or make it usefull in PvP), as gathering a complete set is gonna be hard enough, gathering a second one for PvP is gonna be a pain...

[kodrac]

As far as casuals, again while only seeing red it just felt like another slap in the face .....

 

W00t! There it is!

 

BINGO!

Edited October 27, 2016 by kodrac

[Dael_Adaon]

Does this mean that OPS do not contain loot drama anymore?

 

Fixed.

[robertthebard]

You're right and I apologize. After getting over my tantrum I did go reread everything a little closer and I believe that when I saw that the gear I need was going to be locked behind the dreaded RNG the first time I momentarily lost my senses and stopped seeing the rest of the post just went full ID10T on the whole thing. I believe I began having flashbacks of lottery packs past and thinking that it would take months to get what I really wanted/needed instead of being able to get the exact item that I had spent my time and effort trying to get the same way I've dropped real money for nothing on the lottery packs that I stopped buying a long time ago for that specific reason.

 

No need to apologize, next time you'll know where to look, that's why I provided the link.

 

As far as casuals, again while only seeing red it just felt like another slap in the face as I've run into people that tell me they hate this game could get to the same level I have without having to go through all the time effort and money I had put in. That's where the ranking example came from, I was attempting to make the feeling I was having relatable. Just hope I don't end up with 300 belts when all I need is a helmet or chest just to get my full set bonus.

 

Again, however, what difference does it really make? I have never inspected someone else's gear to see what they're using. Wait, that's not true, exactly, I did inspect a guild mate's gear when I was trying to help him gear properly, back in the day when "some people" were putting Aim on their snipers, which is exactly what he had done.

[TX_Angel]

Yes, there will be a weekly cap. However this cap is not being put in place to halt or slow progression in anyway. The purpose of the cap is a safeguard should some exploit or bug crop up which allows people to gain CXP in an unintended way. I can assure that cap will be really, really high!

 

-eric

 

So if someone has a week off and hits the cap, you'll lift it for them?

[IanArgent]

So if someone has a week off and hits the cap, you'll lift it for them?

 

How would they earn enough in the second week to need to have the cap lifted?

[Tsetso]

How would they earn enough in the second week to need to have the cap lifted?

 

Believe me, people will find ways.

[Quraswren]

Believe me, people will find ways.

 

Not just hitting cap either.

 

Someone will soon have a guide for how to get the most CXP gains for your time. Not wasting time wiping on harder difficulties.

 

A simple guide for solo and group play on how to get the most points for your time in game.

 

bw made sure to say you cannot reach CXP cap with normal game play. Normal game play is a thing of the past when it comes to a game design like this that drives players to forget the content as a story interest and just get it done ASAP for the points and another pull at the gearing slot machine handle.

 

Why do you think there are no cut scenes (or very limited) in the new uprisings. You slow the group down watching cuts scenes, you'll get kicked out faster than if you just sucked at playing in general (which BTW - is also going to get you kicked faster now that this system is in place).

 

Reaching the cap. You can bet it will be done. AND like the story completion rate bw badly misjudged, reaching CXP cap will be reached as well and sooner than they think.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Quraswren

[Soljin]

It is likely the cap was put at a level that would flag anyone who reaches it for suspicious practices.

 

If you are someone who reaches the cap be prepared to be reviewed for exploits......

 

If they find someone has reached the CXP cap by legitimate means then the cap may be raised a bit....

 

Having the CXP cap in place is a good thing especially during the first few weeks of 5.0. We don't want an exploiter running around in max level gear in the first two weeks of 5.0 crushing players and content alike.....

Edited October 28, 2016 by Soljin

[IanArgent]

Allegedly the cap can only be reached by "exploits." Whether that's true or not, we shall see. I will admit that the current design team seems to be less appreciative of the inventiveness of their player base.

 

OTOH, if you take a week off and can make it up the next week; someone will be doing that even without taking a week off. If you take a week off, you're going to lose the advantages of playing that week. Crafting is the designed "catch-up" mechanism, not being able to crank up your rate of CXP acquisition.

 

Believe me, people will find ways.

 

If they find ways to hit the cap, then that's the "weekly baseline" for the hardest of players - and they won't be able to catch up the lost week anyway.

Edited October 28, 2016 by IanArgent

[Quraswren]

It is likely the cap was put at a level that would flag anyone who reaches it for suspicious practices.

 

If you are someone who reaches the cap be prepared to be reviewed for exploits......

 

I wonder if they consider killing trash up to an OPS boss, getting CXP and then leaving and resetting to kill the trash again "suspicious behavior" or an exploit.

 

It never seems to bother them in the past like when killing the hands right before Brontus.