Extortion of returning players

[ekwalizer]

Just about every other MMO lol................ I once played an MMO where transfers were free. Guess you missed that one in your travels.

 

That is the exception, not the rule. Let's play a game. You name all the MMOs that provide free transfers and I'll name all the ones that do not.

[Jadescythe]

The cost isn't even remotely high. It is seriously like $8.13 per move. That means you can actually move three characters under this payment scale for the price of a single move in just about every other MMO.

 

I'm curious, how much money do you think other MMOs make in revenue off of transfers? I would guess they barely bother to calculate it because most games have nothing that would cause you to transfer. Why would I ever transfer in WoW when I can play across servers without transferring? You can't compare transfers between games when they have radically different implications. If SWTOR wants to join this decade and offer cross-server grouping or consolidate to mega servers, you won't hear me complain about transfer costs ever again.

[Rolodome]

That is the exception, not the rule. Let's play a game. You name all the MMOs that provide free transfers and I'll name all the ones that do not.

Let's play a different game. You name all of the benefits of charging money for transfers (profit for the company doesn't count... that one is too obvious) and I'll sit back and wait because I already named the only important one myself in this thread.

 

But, you know, maybe you'll get inventive and bring up some things I never thought of before. I'm open to learning new things.

[Andryah]

Let's play a different game. You name all of the benefits of charging money for transfers (profit for the company doesn't count... that one is too obvious) and I'll sit back and wait because I already named the only important one myself in this thread.

 

But, you know, maybe you'll get inventive and bring up some things I never thought of before. I'm open to learning new things.

 

I know of only one MMO that offers free transfers... RIFT.. on a one week cooldown per character. But that approach also has had it's own issues over time.. which have been discussed before, so I'm not going to derail the thread to rediscuss it. You can search for it if you actually care.

 

Megaservers and cross server are the exception in the industry, NOT the rule, so far. The studio has stated a number of times that neither are planned for this MMO. So as they say.. wish in one hand and #$%* in the other and see which happens first.

 

I don't see free transfers coming unless/until a server is announced as end of life... in which case I would expect them to lock the server for new characters and transfers in... and then give limited time free transfers off (to predesignated servers) and anyone that does not move gets moved by force by the studio to where ever the studio chooses.

 

We may see incentives in the form of free transfers from larger servers back in to the smaller servers as a method to encourage people to spread out. These are not really "free" as they will be dictating where you move to/from. I would not expect this until the expac drops... and even then.. no telling if they do so or not.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Andryah

[ekwalizer]

I'm curious, how much money do you think other MMOs make in revenue off of transfers? I would guess they barely bother to calculate it because most games have nothing that would cause you to transfer. Why would I ever transfer in WoW when I can play across servers without transferring? You can't compare transfers between games when they have radically different implications. If SWTOR wants to join this decade and offer cross-server grouping or consolidate to mega servers, you won't hear me complain about transfer costs ever again.

 

But it wasn't always like that with WoW. Before they had cross-realm, they had $25 transfers.

 

As to the actual difficult question you asked, the truth is I have no idea. When it comes to Blizzard we have to remember that they pull in vastly larger sums of money from their player-base which allowed them to invest in cross-realm technology. I can only assume that they found there would be better ROI on doing that than remaining CTS only as their options. So I'm assuming it comes down to available resources and ROI.

 

But logically there has to be a financial upshot for any company to do "activity X", otherwise they wouldn't do it. I'm of the opinion that 90CC CTS for 10 months was determined by the accountants at Bioware to be a smart financial move based on their metrics. As such I also have to assume that the 90 CC event met its intent given how long it ran and the fact that it has concluded.

Edited October 6, 2016 by ekwalizer

[ekwalizer]

Let's play a different game. You name all of the benefits of charging money for transfers (profit for the company doesn't count... that one is too obvious) and I'll sit back and wait because I already named the only important one myself in this thread.

 

But, you know, maybe you'll get inventive and bring up some things I never thought of before. I'm open to learning new things.

 

Not until you put your money where your mouth is. I'm waiting to hear about all those MMOs with free transfers other than Rift.

 

What was it I said precisely ... "just about every other" ... and then you chime in from the nose bleed section acting like free transfers are common. So please, enlighten us all.

[Rolodome]

I know of only one MMO that offers free transfers... RIFT.. on a one week cooldown per character. But that approach also has had it's own issues over time.. which have been discussed before, so I'm not going to derail the thread to rediscuss it. You can search for it if you actually care.

 

Megaservers and cross server are the exception in the industry, NOT the rule, so far. The studio has stated a number of times that neither are planned for this MMO. So as they say.. wish in one hand and #$%* in the other and see which happens first.

 

I don't see free transfers coming unless/until a server is announced as end of life... in which case I would expect them to lock the server for new characters and transfers in... and then give limited time free transfers off (to predesignated servers) and anyone that does not move gets moved by force by the studio to where ever the studio chooses.

 

We may see incentives in the form of free transfers from larger servers back in to the smaller servers as a method to encourage people to spread out. These are not really "free" as they will be dictating where you move to/from. I would not expect this until the expac drops... and even then.. no telling if they do so or not.

Yeah, the "issues over time" that I mentioned in one of my recent posts. The main reason why making transfers free has not happened in every single MMO already (that and companies wanting the extra profit).

 

They can state what they want, but it's their loss if it results in an overall worse population and helps quicken the death of the game. I can find other games to play. If they have some magical metrics showing that the population isn't affected by it, then by all means, they can continue. But those metrics would have to be showing that guys like the OP are liars, so you must see why I believe it's an issue?

 

Not until you put your money where your mouth is. I'm waiting to hear about all those MMOs with free transfers other than Rift.

 

What was it I said precisely ... "just about every other" ... and then you chime in from the nose bleed section acting like free transfers are common. So please, enlighten us all.

This is just getting increasingly petty. The argument was never about... whatever this nonsense is... in the first place. It was about players getting dissuaded by barriers.

 

I'm not going to continue to be drawn into this red herring argument, pulled out from a post where I actually mentioned the very reason why free transfers give developers pause. It's like you saw "the cost is so high" and just stopped reading right there, so you could jump on it.

[Rion_Starkiller]

You guys are just arguing for argument's sake at this point. I think we've covered everything.

[ekwalizer]

I'm not going to continue to be drawn into this red herring argument, pulled out from a post where I actually mentioned the very reason why free transfers give developers pause. It's like you saw "the cost is so high" and just stopped reading right there, so you could jump on it.

 

Oh, so I should just let it go when you clearly attempted to ridicule me ... and were flat out wrong. Is it only petty when someone calls you out and proves that you are 100% wrong? But not petty when you try (and fail miserably) to ridicule someone else? I just want to know the rules so I can play too.

 

For the record, there doesn't need to be any reason other than profit for a business to offer a service. If they can get people to give them even more money to improve their gaming experience they will do just that. Look no further than the micro-transaction shops in ... wait for it, here it comes again ... "just about every other MMO".

 

And yes, I think the argument that transfers in this game "are too high" is ludicrous. It is actually less than 1/3 what you would pay in ... wait for ... "just about every other MMO".

 

Furthermore, transferring just one character is 100% free by the use of a referral link. It is also included in the cost of 2 months worth of subscription fees. With moving just one toon you get your entire legacy, achievements, unlocks, etc - and all the crap you can carry/store in your personal bank.

 

But wait, there's more! It has never been easier to level up in this game.... that was never difficult in the first place. Thereby entirely negating the "starting over" argument. What used to take a week now takes literally 7 in game hours. 7 hours of playing. But hell, I bet that even that is just asking too much.

[Rolodome]

You guys are just arguing for argument's sake at this point. I think we've covered everything.

Yeah. Realized that about... today.

[Rolodome]

Oh, so I should just let it go when you clearly attempted to ridicule me ... and were flat out wrong. Is it only petty when someone calls you out and proves that you are 100% wrong? But not petty when you try (and fail miserably) to ridicule someone else? I just want to know the rules so I can play too.

Ahh, I get it now. I hurt your feelings. I apologize for my mocking tone.

 

However, I will explain where my mocking tone is coming from and take a moment to explain that I dropped the argument because it was going nowhere to do with what I wanted to talk about, not because I couldn't back up what I said. I'll try to make this short, since it's such a meta point and I'm sure nobody gives a single **** but us:

 

1) Sometimes people use this tone of "every game I've played" or "most games I've played," as if they're calling upon god himself to smite their opponent's argument. This usually involves no actual references to specific games (or, more importantly, the value of the feature in question). Without specifying what makes the choice a valuable one, it's just a status quo argument. And tradition for the sake of tradition in a consumer product is about as pointless as things get.

 

2) I was not wrong. I used a mocking tone in relation to you saying "you can actually move three characters under this payment scale for the price of a single move in just about every other MMO" and pointed out there's an MMO out there that had (and I believe, still has and is doing pretty well for itself) free transfers. If you mean I'm wrong by calling the price high, I thought we had already established that it's a) high for returning players (anything greater than free is going to be high for a returning player who just wants people to play with), b) higher the more characters one wants to transfer, etc.

 

I had no idea you would latch onto "the price is so high" and ignore everything else I said. So I got a little snarky when you ignored everything else I said.

 

I don't take pride in being an ***, but neither will I take full responsibility for something that was two to tango.

[ekwalizer]

Ahh, I get it now. I hurt your feelings. I apologize for my mocking tone.

 

However, I will explain where my mocking tone is coming from and take a moment to explain that I dropped the argument because it was going nowhere to do with what I wanted to talk about, not because I couldn't back up what I said. I'll try to make this short, since it's such a meta point and I'm sure nobody gives a single **** but us:

 

1) Sometimes people use this tone of "every game I've played" or "most games I've played," as if they're calling upon god himself to smite their opponent's argument. This usually involves no actual references to specific games (or, more importantly, the value of the feature in question). Without specifying what makes the choice a valuable one, it's just a status quo argument. And tradition for the sake of tradition in a consumer product is about as pointless as things get.

 

2) I was not wrong. I used a mocking tone in relation to you saying "you can actually move three characters under this payment scale for the price of a single move in just about every other MMO" and pointed out there's an MMO out there that had (and I believe, still has and is doing pretty well for itself) free transfers. If you mean I'm wrong by calling the price high, I thought we had already established that it's a) high for returning players (anything greater than free is going to be high for a returning player who just wants people to play with), b) higher the more characters one wants to transfer, etc.

 

I had no idea you would latch onto "the price is so high" and ignore everything else I said. So I got a little snarky when you ignored everything else I said.

 

I don't take pride in being an ***, but neither will I take full responsibility for something that was two to tango.

 

You didn't hurt my feelings in the least. I retired from the military, I don't have any.

 

No, my issue was that you pointed to Rift, being a singular example, as disproof to my statement that "just about every other MMO" charges $25 for single character transfer. I clearly said, and you have quoted it no less than twice now: just about every other MMO. That particular combination of words in that particular order does not equal "every MMO". That you did it mockingly and happened to be wrong were just icing on the cake. You cited the exception to the rule, not the common practice.

 

As I stated, the number of returning players is vastly over estimated and over stated on these forums. It just isn't born out in facts or logic.

 

Think about it like this, *if* there were massive numbers of returning players then "they" wouldn't be complaining about dead servers or the price to transfer because those servers would have massive numbers of (returning or new) players.

 

Next, Bioware ran a promotion, if you can even call a 10 month long event that, which effectively made it free to transfer up to 6 toons per month. Simply because people were not here at the time or chose for whatever reason not to use that method ... is their fault and frankly their problem.

 

Once again, for like the 11th time today: If Bioware decided to make 90 CC CTS permanent, I would have no issue. But to say that $8.13 to move a character to a populated server is a bridge too far, then I have to point out that that player whether new or returning wasn't going to stick around anyway. Pandering to transients is futile.

 

As to the status quo, there is nothing that you can do about it. Case in point, a subscription to EQ 13 years ago is the same price as the subscription for this game. In economics a price will not decrease until the market will no longer bear that price. When it comes to MMOs, insert the F2P/Cash Shop model. But we do still have subscriptions.

 

Is it antiquated and probably time for something else? Probably. But it will take gamers, in droves, to change the paradigm by unsubbing in protest to the cost. Not forum posts.

Edited October 7, 2016 by ekwalizer

[Exly]

But it wasn't always like that with WoW. Before they had cross-realm, they had $25 transfers.

 

Good for them. They had a problem, they took action to fix it, and now people don't need to do a server transfer in order to participate in group activities anymore.

 

It would be nice if EA would do the same thing for this game. Until then they could at least make things better by limiting or eliminating the cost of server transfers, or consolidating servers so that all of their customers could have a reasonable chance of being able to form groups for things like operations, warzones, galactic star fighter, etc.

[ekwalizer]

Good for them. They had a problem, they took action to fix it, and now people don't need to do a server transfer in order to participate in group activities anymore.

 

It would be nice if EA would do the same thing for this game. Until then they could at least make things better by limiting or eliminating the cost of server transfers, or consolidating servers so that all of their customers could have a reasonable chance of being able to form groups for things like operations, warzones, galactic star fighter, etc.

 

I'm all for condensing servers at this point. I genuinely believed that that would be the final outcome of the 10 month event. My point is, was and will always be, that they put the power to take control of people's gaming experience in their own hands for the better part of a year.

 

Of course there will be a small number of hold-outs and a small number of boomerangs that are negatively impacted by this. But, given our reaction to the two forced mergers in 2012, this was the best option that they had.

 

This game doesn't have the financial resources that WoW has. WoW is Blizzard's cash-cow. We are neither Bioware's nor EA's cash-cow (unfortunately). So, in my mind, it is unrealistic to expect them to invest in cross-server technology.

 

It likely "costs" them nothing to transfer characters. But, they did have to develop the mechanics to do it, which means that at some point it did cost them money. So expecting them to *not* seek a return on investment is unrealistic.

[CrazyCT]

I'm all for condensing servers at this point. I genuinely believed that that would be the final outcome of the 10 month event.

 

I think the event is the opposite - it's an event where, if you want to complete everything, you have to start 8 new characters from scratch. That sounds more like it was a way to get people to think that they might as well start over on a server they would rather play on. If you want to play on a different server, and don't want to pay the "extortionate" transfer fee, what better time to do it, than during an event that rewards you for starting from the beginning again.

 

And for those of use who did start a load of characters on new servers during the event - how would they possibly merge servers? There are 17 servers and up to 40 characters per server - do I now get 680 character slots? Do I also get 102 Legacy bank vault tabs to cope with all the stuff I have on all servers? 85 strongholds?

 

And what are the odds of having all the stuff transferred correctly? Am I going to have to send email after email chasing up some stuff that got lost "in transit"? What happens to all my decorations - are they going to stack with increased limits, or am I just going to lose the ones over the limits? Will I be refunded for the money I paid for the decorations I lose? Will I be refunded for legacy unlocks I paid for on each server? What happens to the gear I got from DvL that I haven't "uncrated" yet?

 

{Yeah, server merges sound like a fun idea. Let's pander to the people who care about the game so much, they didn't bother playing for years, and save them a couple of $'s, and totally screw up the game for people who've been here for years. It's better to piss off the majority of your current player base in the faint hope of getting a couple of hundred fickle players to stick around for a week or two before moving away again.}

[ekwalizer]

I think the event is the opposite - it's an event where, if you want to complete everything, you have to start 8 new characters from scratch. That sounds more like it was a way to get people to think that they might as well start over on a server they would rather play on. If you want to play on a different server, and don't want to pay the "extortionate" transfer fee, what better time to do it, than during an event that rewards you for starting from the beginning again.

 

I actually agree entirely. I was speaking historically, but your point is spot on. DvL and our new ridiculous leveling rate I believe were meant to entice people to self-deport to bigger servers.

 

And for those of use who did start a load of characters on new servers during the event - how would they possibly merge servers? There are 17 servers and up to 40 characters per server - do I now get 680 character slots? Do I also get 102 Legacy bank vault tabs to cope with all the stuff I have on all servers? 85 strongholds?

 

I think if they did force mergers again, no server would be pushed into Harb, JC, SL or TRE. Because of the issues you address. Likely it would be all of the small population servers getting pushed to a specific small population server, making it a normal population server. But yes, logistically I do not think it would be easy for them to do it. Although, I did end up with 16 toons (in the days of 8 toons per server) on Jedi Covenant when Shii Cho and The constant were merged into JC.

 

And what are the odds of having all the stuff transferred correctly? Am I going to have to send email after email chasing up some stuff that got lost "in transit"? What happens to all my decorations - are they going to stack with increased limits, or am I just going to lose the ones over the limits? Will I be refunded for the money I paid for the decorations I lose? Will I be refunded for legacy unlocks I paid for on each server? What happens to the gear I got from DvL that I haven't "uncrated" yet?

 

Again, the logistics would be a nightmare which leads me to believe your premise is 100% accurate.

 

{Yeah, server merges sound like a fun idea. Let's pander to the people who care about the game so much, they didn't bother playing for years, and save them a couple of $'s, and totally screw up the game for people who've been here for years. It's better to piss off the majority of your current player base in the faint hope of getting a couple of hundred fickle players to stick around for a week or two before moving away again.}

 

This has been my overall point in this thread. Bioware shouldn't pander to boomerangs when they have demonstrated no loyalty to the game. At this point, we need to accept that the best we can do is maintain what players we have and improve the QoL for loyal customers. If that means cross-server I am all for it, if it means free transfers (targeted) then I am all for that too.

 

What irritates me is that people, for whatever reason, chose not to transfer their toons over a period of 10 months and are now blaming Bioware for their woes.

[DarthJimilingus]

Returning players, lured by promotional material for the new content, are finding themselves trapped in dead servers; servers in which the entire active population could well be counted on fingers and toes. This totally nullifies the MMO experience, making pvp, group pve, and player interaction nearly impossible, and forces these returning players to either start from scratch on a new server, buy a maxed out character, or pay out the nose to transfer their characters to a server where multiplayer in any form is actually possible. This is an extremely lame tactic for extorting additional money from returning players, and that's precisely what it is, as there's no other reason to keep dead servers open.

 

Totally agree. It is depressing. I've tried in the past few weeks to log in and can't motivate myself to run around and do things bc the servers are dead. 3 on the fleet(and 1 is a gold spammer) I'd love to transfer servers(I'm on Prophecy of the Five) but its too expensive. Bioware should consolidate but I know how they think. Get the players to pay for it. This new expansion better kick ***.

[TUXs]

Totally agree. It is depressing. I've tried in the past few weeks to log in and can't motivate myself to run around and do things bc the servers are dead. 3 on the fleet(and 1 is a gold spammer) I'd love to transfer servers(I'm on Prophecy of the Five) but its too expensive. Bioware should consolidate but I know how they think. Get the players to pay for it. This new expansion better kick ***.

Have you used your free transfer yet? If you click on a referral link (not a pitch for mine, use a friends or a guildies or someone you agree with on these forums), you get ONE FREE character move...use it wisely. Load up that ONE toon with every bit of valuables you can (credits, items, etc) and move to Harbinger (it's the only server worth moving to imo).

 

Once there, start over...start the DvL event for the armor (24/40/50% XP boost). Leveling new toons absolutely sucks, and I know this is a crap suggestion, but it's the best advice I can offer you. Leveling is very quick these days (class quest only, PvP intro mission, a few random PvP matches and Heroics)...you'll hit 65 before you know it.

 

Far from a good plan, but it's the most practical.

[ekwalizer]

Have you used your free transfer yet? If you click on a referral link (not a pitch for mine, use a friends or a guildies or someone you agree with on these forums), you get ONE FREE character move...use it wisely. Load up that ONE toon with every bit of valuables you can (credits, items, etc) and move to Harbinger (it's the only server worth moving to imo).

 

Once there, start over...start the DvL event for the armor (24/40/50% XP boost). Leveling new toons absolutely sucks, and I know this is a crap suggestion, but it's the best advice I can offer you. Leveling is very quick these days (class quest only, PvP intro mission, a few random PvP matches and Heroics)...you'll hit 65 before you know it.

 

Far from a good plan, but it's the most practical.

 

He is absolutely correct OP. Do whatever you can to move 1 toon for as cheaply as you can (Referral Link, Complimentary CC) and move to Harb. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is the only one worth moving to, but it is a safe bet. If you are east coast, JC and SL are both doing just fine.

 

To illustrate what Tux said, I just started the DvL event last friday and Have already made it to Eternal (and champion) Level (so minimum 1x Imp 65 and 1x Pub 65). It went very fast. Leveling itself is far less linear and time consuming as it used to be, you have many viable options to choose from.

Edited October 7, 2016 by ekwalizer

[Jadescythe]

He is absolutely correct OP. Do whatever you can to move 1 toon for as cheaply as you can (Referral Link, Complimentary CC) and move to Harb. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is the only one worth moving to, but it is a safe bet. If you are east coast, JC and SL are both doing just fine.

 

To illustrate what Tux said, I just started the DvL event last friday and Have already made it to Eternal (and champion) Level (so minimum 1x Imp 65 and 1x Pub 65). It went very fast. Leveling itself is far less linear and time consuming as it used to be, you have many viable options to choose from.

 

Very fast is all relative. 10-12 hours per character at least if you don't have the DvL event gear. Not to mention that only gets you to 65 and doesn't get you the gear you need or companions you may want to recruit, etc. It's faster than it was before, but I'm not going to pretend that most players have 20 hours a week to dedicate to leveling characters just to start over on another server. Not to mention the loss of titles or other character specific rewards that are no longer attainable.

 

It's an option, but definitely not a great one.

[ekwalizer]

Very fast is all relative. 10-12 hours per character at least if you don't have the DvL event gear. Not to mention that only gets you to 65 and doesn't get you the gear you need or companions you may want to recruit, etc. It's faster than it was before, but I'm not going to pretend that most players have 20 hours a week to dedicate to leveling characters just to start over on another server. Not to mention the loss of titles or other character specific rewards that are no longer attainable.

 

It's an option, but definitely not a great one.

 

The current alternative is to remain on a dead server, or find a way off. Opinions as to whether or not it is "right" or "ok" or "acceptable" vary, but that fact does not.

[ekwalizer]

Well lookie there. Double XP is on for the next 3 months or so.

[PlasmaJohn]

The current alternative is to remain on a dead server, or find a way off. Opinions as to whether or not it is "right" or "ok" or "acceptable" vary, but that fact does not.

I suppose you classify "leave the game" as "a way off". Of course all those dead servers must mean Austin is overflowing with replacement subs, right?

[robertthebard]

And there you go, blaming the customer again. It's NOT their problem to fix - they've already proven they aren't nearly as addicted to the game as you and I are - they've quit before and this will simply encourage them to do it again. All that $10 fee PER TOON does, is make most of them to say "lol, hell no", and uninstall again.

 

Their problem is easily solved - they walk away. Why on earth should they pay Bioware $10 extra, PER toon, to enjoy the game? WHY? Because they weren't here for 90cc transfers? Because they had the gall to quit before? These aren't people like us, these are people who are returning to see if they might enjoy the game again, players giving the game a second chance...and I guarantee you that most walk away when they see their server dead and Bioware is charging $10 per toon to move.

 

If I went back to lotro and they demanded I pay $10 to move my toon to an 'active' server, I'd laugh, uninstall, and go find a new game to play. I actually enjoyed lotro...but then this game was released and I've never looked back...and I'll never pay Turbine to move a toon.

 

The only people being hurt by the current fee are US, who are here playing the damn game...US who enjoy the game...because these are returning customers giving the game a second chance that are being driven off. Bioware should make it EASY for these customers to stay. They should make it easy for them to find a place they enjoy playing...because after losing 2 million+ customers, there aren't a whole lotta people left who haven't tried this game.

 

The reality is that my game wasn't adversely affected by their absence when they were absent, and so, won't be affected when they walk again. What was it Shepard said to Thane's son during his loyalty mission? Oh yeah, "Before you take a hostage, make sure anyone cares if they live". Good ol' renegade Shep, telling it like it is for um, quite a while now. By saying "returning player", we are, by definition, talking about someone that's aware of the game having issues when they left. Whether that be PvP, Ops, or just didn't care for KotFE, what have you.

 

Again, my first instinct when I get an email from a game along the lines of "We haven't seen you around in a while, come see what we've done with the place", which happens frequently, my first instinct isn't to whip out my credit card and give them my money. It's to first verify if I'm interested in even going back, and then, if so, logging in to see what's new. People complain all the time about lack of advertising, and so, when they advertise via email it's "but BW/EA was bad for tricking him into paying"...

[robertthebard]

Whether something is compimentary or not is more a matter of perception when you are giving them something in order to obtain it. Complimentary would be samples at a liquor store. Even if you don't end up buying anything from the store, you still receive the samples for free. Cartel Coins, while called complimentary by BW, are only received if you purchase a subscription. Thus they are a part of what you are paying for and not "complimentary" as it is described in your definition.

 

I don't disagree with your definition, but disagree that the word applies to CC from a sub just because BW says so. The fact that you only receive them in exchange for money goes against the very definition of the word.

 

How many CCs did they give people that were subbed prior to F2P? How much did the price change after F2P since the CC are now included?

 

What's that you say? The price didn't change? So you're getting access to all the bells and whistles, and some bonus CC on top of them too? What about the bonus CC for a Security Key? Is a one off payment on that meaning that they're not free too?