Eric - is multiboxing allowed, confirm pls officially

[Icykill_]

Hi Eric,

 

In another thread that has to do with multiboxing and professions. Some people are promoting Multiboxing to basically exploit the professions in the game to obtain credits.

 

Here is a quote from that thread that states Multiboxing is allowed.

 

Multiboxing software is allowed, it's not my fault that you don't take advantage of it. I hope they keep slicing lockboxes as they are but i would like to see them reverse the changes to treasure hunting lockboxes. The thing i like most about the crewskill lockbox missions that generate profit is that those accounts don't need to be subscribed, it always generates profit so it is self sustaining and everything goes into escrow. Then when you need the credits you can sub the account and you have several hundred million on it.

 

My understanding is no third party software that gives an unfair advantage is allowed in the game. ie Macros.

I would think the use of multiboxing would come under that category. To me it's borderline exploiting.

 

Anyway, can you please give us the clarification

[ivanhedgehog]

Why, did I hit a nerve.

I'm only trying to ask for clarification on the games policy.

 

The people that started that thread were gold farmers trying to stop slicing from being a viable crew skill. The guy you were quoting was trolling you with great success. You are just the tool they are using to wave it in front of the dev staff. If we see a nerf to slicing in the coming weeks you can be sure there are some that will hold you partially to blame, right or wrong. Not me, I gave up on crew skills a long time ago, bw cant seem to make them work in a coherent manner.

[ZanyaCross]

If we see a nerf to slicing in the coming weeks you can be sure there are some that will hold you partially to blame, right or wrong.

 

That's the saddest and most obvious ploy to get someone to shut up about something you don't agree with I've ever seen.

[Transcendent]

The people that started that thread were gold farmers trying to stop slicing from being a viable crew skill. The guy you were quoting was trolling you with great success. You are just the tool they are using to wave it in front of the dev staff.

 

This. If anything, that thread should have been locked or removed by now. It's pretty obvious that it's a blatant attempt to get crew skills nerfed, and who the main protagonists posting in that thread are.

[AllisonLightning]

This. If anything, that thread should have been locked or removed by now. It's pretty obvious that it's a blatant attempt to get crew skills nerfed, and who the main protagonists posting in that thread are.

 

^ This, I tried making an opposing thread but it just wasn't worth the idiots who kept biting the credit farmer thread or try and keep up the delusion that it's actual players asking for nerfs. There are people who ask for content to get made easier/harder by various means and reasons, and PvP based class nerfs sometimes based on nothing more than this class can grind them down to the dirt.

 

PvP reminds me of Versus in Left4Dead and 2 where you take the knowledge of what can kill you as a survivor and apply it as an Infected. But I digress- my point is even the people crying about inflation because they can't be bothered making credits don't start threads asking for targeted nerfs. They aren't thinking on that level.

[Rolodome]

^ This, I tried making an opposing thread but it just wasn't worth the idiots who kept biting the credit farmer thread or try and keep up the delusion that it's actual players asking for nerfs. There are people who ask for content to get made easier/harder by various means and reasons, and PvP based class nerfs sometimes based on nothing more than this class can grind them down to the dirt.

 

PvP reminds me of Versus in Left4Dead and 2 where you take the knowledge of what can kill you as a survivor and apply it as an Infected. But I digress- my point is even the people crying about inflation because they can't be bothered making credits don't start threads asking for targeted nerfs. They aren't thinking on that level.

I didn't even realize that thread was still going. I'd tuned it out.

[ivanhedgehog]

That's the saddest and most obvious ploy to get someone to shut up about something you don't agree with I've ever seen.

 

then you obviously havent read the thread up till you posted in it.

[Icykill_]

The people that started that thread were gold farmers trying to stop slicing from being a viable crew skill. The guy you were quoting was trolling you with great success. You are just the tool they are using to wave it in front of the dev staff. If we see a nerf to slicing in the coming weeks you can be sure there are some that will hold you partially to blame, right or wrong. Not me, I gave up on crew skills a long time ago, bw cant seem to make them work in a coherent manner.

 

Would you like me to remove the reference to slicing then? Because the question was not about nerfing anything.

I'm wanting to know if this is an exploit of the system?

Edited September 26, 2016 by Icykill_

[DreadtechSavant]

Would you like me to remove the reference to slicing then? Because the question was not about nerfing anything.

I'm wanting to know if this is an exploit of the system?

 

You said it yourself, any software that gives an unfair advantage is an exploit. You really need this confirmed?

 

However bw doing something about this is easier said than done. I really don't think this issue is worth all the fuss it's getting. While BW may comment on this, history tends me to lean towards they won't.

 

You are correct you did not mention slicing in your opening post, but its not an unfair assumption for players to jump to that conclusion as it is the main topic of the other multiboxing thread. If BW were to do anything it is more than likely that nerfing slicing is what they will do. I don't see that punishing the rest of the player base is an expectable thing to do to try and stop muiltiboxing. Even if it not what you are asking it probably would be the end result.

[CaptRogue]

Hi Eric,

 

In another thread that has to do with multiboxing and professions. Some people are promoting Multiboxing to basically exploit the professions in the game to obtain credits.

 

Here is a quote from that thread that states Multiboxing is allowed.

 

 

 

My understanding is no third party software that gives an unfair advantage is allowed in the game. ie Macros.

I would think the use of multiboxing would come under that category. To me it's borderline exploiting.

 

Anyway, can you please give us the clarification

 

Why does Eric need to give you clarification, when it's already been given in this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=707448 by a yellow post??

It's been fine to use Multiboxing in this game as long as you're not breaking the other rules, e.g. Macros, 3rd party software (hardware is allowed), etc...

BW wouldn't ban multiboxing as long as it's legal because most likely those who do that, have all their accounts as a paying sub too.

[JediQuaker]

There's really not much difference between 1 person "multi-boxing" and a couple of people "co-operating". True, it does sort of game the system, but it would be very difficult to police it.

[Andryah]

Previous Yellow posts on the subject:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6459160&postcount=181

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6455899&postcount=94

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5971238&postcount=45

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=3239187&postcount=5

 

It comes down to this:

 

A) If any form of software automation is used, it violates the ToS. They have been extremely clear on this on multiple occasions.

 

B) If a person sits in front of multiple computers (virtual or real) and manually performs key actions on each logged in character separately and uses no automation, they have made it clear there is no issue.

 

Can you exploit the use of multi-boxing? Yes. And if you see it.... report it.

 

Can you legally play multiple charactes on multiple clients at one time? Yes, as long as you perform no form of scripting, marcos, or software shadow actions, etc.

 

Of course they could change the policy about multi-boxing at any time, but they have been both clear and logical about their policy over the years.

 

Seems like more work for limited additional outcomes if you multi-box legally in this game, but some people like doing it and as long as they do it all manually, there really is no harm that I can see. Scripters and automators though can be a problem, but this is true about just about anything in the game.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Andryah

[DOHboy]

...

It comes down to this:

 

A) If any form of software automation is used, it violates the ToS. They have been extremely clear on this on multiple occasions.

 

B) If a person sits in front of multiple computers (virtual or real) and manually performs key actions on each logged in character separately and uses no automation, they have made it clear there is no issue.

 

Can you exploit the use of multi-boxing? Yes. And if you see it.... report it.

 

Can you legally play multiple charactes on multiple clients at one time? Yes, as long as you perform no form of scripting, marcos, or software shadow actions, etc.

 

Of course they could change the policy about multi-boxing at any time, but they have been both clear and logical about their policy over the years.

 

Seems like more work for limited additional outcomes if you multi-box legally in this game, but some people like doing it and as long as they do it all manually, there really is no harm that I can see. Scripters and automators though can be a problem, but this is true about just about anything in the game.

 

problem with multi-boxing is that rarely is it ever done 'legally" most people will use a single keyboard and a single mouse. hit one key (say skill 5) and it will execute skill 5 for all boxes (this is against the TOS). now if you have 4 boxes and hit 5 5x then you are legal, but i highly doubt anyone is doing that. I could be proven wrong, but given the reasons for using it, i doubt anyone would take the time to do it right.

 

easy way to tell, if all chars in a group are executing their skills at same time, its probably a macro, if they are executing in succession, its probably a multi-box but without the macro.

 

personally i would just as easily say no to the practice as it is easy to exploit and hard to detect "correct use"

[Andryah]

problem with multi-boxing is that rarely is it ever done 'legally" most people will use a single keyboard and a single mouse. hit one key (say skill 5) and it will execute skill 5 for all boxes (this is against the TOS). now if you have 4 boxes and hit 5 5x then you are legal, but i highly doubt anyone is doing that. I could be proven wrong, but given the reasons for using it, i doubt anyone would take the time to do it right.

 

easy way to tell, if all chars in a group are executing their skills at same time, its probably a macro, if they are executing in succession, its probably a multi-box but without the macro.

 

personally i would just as easily say no to the practice as it is easy to exploit and hard to detect "correct use"

 

No disagreement. Which is why I encourage other players to always report it when they see characters of the same class working in unison as though working from a central keystroke.

[Holocron]

Multi-boxing is allowed as long as you are present for each character and able to move them around the world. Multi-boxing is not allowed if you are afk/macro'ing their commands. They've addressed this issue with the aforementioned info already, however this was about two years ago.

[jedip_enguin]

Even WoW/Blizzard with its countless billions of dollars earned has never found a way to deter or police multiboxing.

 

If you think BW is going to do anything about it, you're out of your mind.

Edited September 26, 2016 by jedip_enguin

[josephxp]

Can you legally play multiple charactes on multiple clients at one time? Yes, as long as you perform no form of scripting, marcos, or software shadow actions, etc.

 

That right there makes me think of the anime No Game No Life where the 2 MC's will play 4 different MMO characters at the same time in a pvp match and slaughter them.

 

 

But ya Multiboxing common sense if you are using any 3rd party software 9/10 times it will violate the ToS. Though star-parse is one that is legal to see your damage output test rotations etc and track what you are doing, why swtor doesn't have one built in we might never know. But if its one thing i have learned from Ethics is everything is always relative to the situation.

[Sharkhonn]

Multi-boxing is allowed as long as you are present for each character and able to move them around the world. Multi-boxing is not allowed if you are afk/macro'ing their commands. They've addressed this issue with the aforementioned info already, however this was about two years ago.

 

You are mistaken! People are using the term "multi boxing" incorrectly in half of these posts. When someone tries to make the argument about multi boxing being allowed or not allowed they are referring to a macro program that allows 1 computer to operate several accounts, or 1 keyboard and mouse to operate several computers at once. In either case this is a clear violation of the TOS. ANY use of ANY program that enables you to perform multiple actions from 1 keystroke or click of a mouse is a violation. If you have 3 computers with an account loaded on each and you use a program to control all 3 then you are in violation. Now, in a lot of MMO's these rules are sometimes overlooked due to the fact that those players are paying customers and it is not worth the time and money it requires to stop them.

 

Yes they are an annoyance in almost every sense but, BW is unlikely to take action unless it is someone abusing the hell out of it like in pvp or somewhere that disrupts others game play!

[Andryah]

You are mistaken! People are using the term "multi boxing" incorrectly in half of these posts. When someone tries to make the argument about multi boxing being allowed or not allowed they are referring to a macro program that allows 1 computer to operate several accounts, or 1 keyboard and mouse to operate several computers at once. In either case this is a clear violation of the TOS. ANY use of ANY program that enables you to perform multiple actions from 1 keystroke or click of a mouse is a violation. If you have 3 computers with an account loaded on each and you use a program to control all 3 then you are in violation. Now, in a lot of MMO's these rules are sometimes overlooked due to the fact that those players are paying customers and it is not worth the time and money it requires to stop them.

 

Yes they are an annoyance in almost every sense but, BW is unlikely to take action unless it is someone abusing the hell out of it like in pvp or somewhere that disrupts others game play!

 

Correct use of terminology is important in a discussion like this for sure, but you just clouded things with your comment.

 

Eve Online is the mother of all MMOs for multi-boxing... both legitimate and illegitimate. And the studio knows more about it then any other studio, in my view. And their policy surrounding it, out of necessity, has been clarified and tightened numerous times over the years.

 

So, let's go with the CCP definition of multi-boxing, as it is essentially identical to what Bioware has stated with respect to multi-boxing, but with more precision on the nuances of what is and is not allowed:

Multiboxing

 

Multiboxing refers to playing as multiple separate characters, simultaneously, across a number of accounts, either by using multiple computers to run the game, or by using a number of instances of EVE on a single computer.

 

Uses for multiboxing range from scouts in PvP to gang boosting, support and ECM alts, as well as extra characters for hauling, mining and many other applications. Based on our EULA and Policies we would like to clarify that multiboxing is allowed.

 

Now to the problematic element that can surround multi-boxinig: INPUT AUTOMATION

Input Automation

 

Input Automation refers to actions that are commonly also referred to as botting or macroing. This term is used to describe, but is not limited to, the automation of actions which have consequences in the EVE universe.

 

Input Broadcasting & Input Multiplexing

 

Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing refer to the multiplication of inputs, actions and events to multiple instances of the game.

 

As of 15th of March 2013 we have been policing input automation based on a two-strike policy

 

• 1st strike for input automation is a 30 day ban

• 2nd strike for input automation is a permanent ban

 

Input Automation remains strictly prohibited, and is policed under our suspension and ban policy.

 

Just as in EVE Online, multi-boxing has been stated as permissible by the studio here, but input automation of any kind is not permitted. See my earlier links above to see gold posts from the studio for SWTOR. The only thing we do not know with respect to SWTOR is what their action policies are for input automation violations ... which IMO should be as transparent to the player base as EVE Online provides.

 

TL;DR : Multi-boxing does not violate the ToS/EULA. However, input automation of any form, software or hardware, does, and is prohibited. I don't know why we are debating it, much less why we need yet another statement from the studio regarding multi-boxing.

 

For reference, Eve source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571

Edited September 27, 2016 by Andryah

[DarthWoad]

Correct use of terminology is important in a discussion like this for sure

 

Multi boxing and gold-selling in SWTOR are against the rules So therefore I disagree with you entirely.

 

I don't know why we are debating it, much less why we need yet another statement from the studio regarding multi-boxing.

 

You think you're correct. But you're not. That's why you're questioning why we're debating it, because you assume and think, in your own opinion, that it's a pointless discussion. Whereas other people want to talk about it. So no need for you to be rude and dismissing other peoples views.

Edited September 27, 2016 by DarthWoad

[Icykill_]

I started the thread to get an official confirmation on this subject so that we can once and for all put it to bed.

My understanding of the use of multiboxing is that it is against the TOS and using it to farm profession credits is tantamount to exploiting the system.

Now I could be wrong. So I am asking Bioware to make a definitive statement on the issue, the same way they have with other issues that are regarded as credit exploiting.

If I'm wrong, I'll drop it. I still won't agree with it, but I also won't bother arguing its merits.

If I'm right, then the subject is moot and never needs to be discussed again.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Icykill_

[Kamatsu]

Unless something has changed, it was stated by a BioWare staff member on 03/04/2012 that multi-boxing *IS* allowed and does *not* break the TOS/Eula. As long as your not using means to automate actions, multi-boxing is fine.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=3239187&postcount=5

 

BioWare Staff = Brellon

Hallo NazgulKhamul,

 

So lange jemand die Charaktere selbst steuert, verstößt 'Multiboxing' nicht gegen unsere Nutzungsbedingungen. Die Beschreibung der Probleme, die im Zusammenhang mit Multiboxern stehen, sind aber sehr merkwürdig. Uns ist nicht bekannt, warum es zu so einem Verhalten kommen könnte.

 

Welche Maus benutzt du? Gibt es für deine Maus Treibersoftware?

 

Um fehlerhafte Dateien auszuschließen würden wir dich bitten, eine Reparatur durchzuführen, falls dort das seltsame Verhalten verursacht wird.

 

Gibt es sonst noch etwas was auffällig ist und mit der fehlerhaften Steuerung in Zusammenhang steht?

 

Vielen Dank.

 

Using Google Translate, this equates to (bolding & underlining the important part):

Hello NazgulKhamul,

 

As long as one controls the characters themselves, 'Multiboxing' is not violating our User Agreement. The description of the problems associated with multi boxers, but are very strange. We do not know why it could so come a behavior.

 

What mouse do you use? Is there for your mouse driver software?

 

To exclude incorrect files we would ask you to perform a repair, if there is caused the strange behavior.

 

Is there anything else which is striking and is linked to the faulty controller?

 

Thank you very much.

 

So unless someone can find a BW staff/dev post since then retracting that statement... it's official - multi-boxing is allowed as long as you manually control each character.

[DOHboy]

Im using multiboxing a lot for getting achievments. I macro a dps rotation on the other account and go kill base defences or play GSF and PVP and kill myself for achievments, its fun and since i didnt get banned, it must be OK.

 

just because you havn't been caught, doesn't mean its "ok" macros of any kind are against the ToS and a bannable offense.

 

So unless someone can find a BW staff/dev post since then retracting that statement... it's official - multi-boxing is allowed as long as you manually control each character.

 

nobody has said its not allowed, as long as you are MANUALLY controlling any players on any account you are not in violation of the ToS. So what does that mean you have multiple accounts 1) you have separate keyboard and mouse controlling each char individually 2) you have one keyboard and one mouse with a switch that you select which account gets which input 3) you have a macro that when you press a button the first activation works on account 1, second activation works for account two (as long as there are no programmed delays or actions that would otherwise violate the Tos).

 

so example that doesn't violate ToS: player has two accounts running on one PC (virtual machine) with a single keyboard and mouse. The player when activating a skill presses a key and will activate that skill on the first account, pressing the key again will activate the skill on the second account.

 

an example that violates ToS.: player has two accounts running on one PC with a single keyboard and mouse. The player, when activating a skill, presses a key and activates that skill on both accounts either at the same time, or with a slight delay built in, but in either case it requires only a single keyboard input to activate two skills.

 

this can be extended to multiple PCs the same way, as (either with separate keyboard/mice) or special hardware to split the signals.

 

macros and hardware that replace a physical key press or player input actions (delay) are against the ToS. for instance mapping keys is acceptable: press 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,1 and the macro takes each additional input as a different key press, 1, 2, 3, 4 5, 6, 7, etc. is not against the ToS as it replaces individual key presses with a differetn key press (pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1 is no different than pressing 1,2,3,4,5).

 

Doing a macro that when you press 1 and then executes the macro as: 1 delay (1.5) , 3 delay (1.5) 2 delay (1.5), 6 delay (1.5) and repeats is against the ToS as it replaces multiple key presses.

 

even a macro that does 1 delay(1.5) 1 every time you press 1 violates that, as it adds in a automatic delay.

[Andryah]

Im using multiboxing a lot for getting achievments. I macro a dps rotation on the other account and go kill base defences or play GSF and PVP and kill myself for achievments, its fun and since i didnt get banned, it must be OK.

 

Unlike the multi-boxing part, which multiple gold posts have said is OK (see multiple posts with links above in this thread), input automation (ie: your use of macros) IS NOT OK. You will eventually be caught and sanctioned for that part of what you are doing.

 

In addition, you just admitted you kill trade with yourself... which is also a violation of ToS/EULA.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Andryah