Do we have ability overload?

[LordArtemis]

One thing I have felt since the launch of this game is that there are FAR too many abilities for each player in this game.

 

Now, I would not suggest they should remove abilities for the sake of simplicity for all, since obviously that would likely upset those folks that enjoy the diversity and range of choices/rotations. What I would suggest, however, is that perhaps there should be some kind of option to either upgrade a current ability or get a new one.

 

That change, if implemented, would give players a wider choice IMO....perhaps those that do not prefer more advanced play or PVP would choose a simpler build with upgraded abilities

 

That is not to say it would not have any problems...balance issues come into play. But, one could consider that perhaps this could be a path to offering a different rule set for PVP.

 

At any rate, what do you guys think? Would you be against a "simple mode" that would prune them down to 5 or 6 core abilities? If you like the idea, what kind of problems do you think this kind of system would present for the game?

 

Thanks for your time.

[mitchsts]

i agree. there should also be a button in this game to get every achievement and perfect gear instantly. also why does it take me so long to kill people with lightsabers? i want to be able to press one button and kill someone. this game is WAY too hard.

[LordArtemis]

i agree. there should also be a button in this game to get every achievement and perfect gear instantly. also why does it take me so long to kill people with lightsabers? i want to be able to press one button and kill someone. this game is WAY too hard.

 

Heh.

I am assuming you feel offering a simple mode for abilities as an OPTION would make the game too easy. If I am wrong to assume so, I welcome the correction.

[Icykill_]

While I don't mind some complexity, I think we there is a little bit of ability overload. But I think most of this bloat comes from the actual class and not the advanced class/build.

For example, every class has their generic abilities, but when you chose the advanced class, lots of those abilities are either useless or over bloat the advanced class. Juggs, PTs and Sins all have a guard or tank ability in their DPS specs. Sorcs, Mercs and Operatives can all "off" heal when in dps spec.

There are many other small examples that "overbloat" how many abilities we have. I think the worst is the sniper. They have so many abilities that can or are used by both operatives and them, that it's insane. Lots of other classes drop off or relegate those abilities to the scape heap when they move to the advanced classes, but just about all agent abilities are viable for snipers in certain situations, so you end up with task bar overload. While some other classes have it relatively easy.

There is no consistency between classes on how many abilities they have. Of course part of that is giving people an option to play classes that require more skill to master.

I'm sure they could trim a few abilities here and there. I believe there maybe some small changes with 5.0, but we need to wait and see.

[LyraineAlei]

When 4.0 went live, they started doing it. Vanguards replaced the coned electro cannon thing attack for the ability gained at a higher level that has it in an arc-circle.

 

Basically, they replaced the abilities that shared a cooldown on classes and combined them. I'd rather have more Utilities and Utility points than abilities.

[MaximusRex]

Maybe, depends on the Advanced Class. Healers especially might have a bit of bloat, they might be better served with a more simplistic DPS rotation for when they solo. But at the same time, you need to be careful what you trim or you risk too much simplicity, and class flavor lost.

[MaximusRex]

i agree. there should also be a button in this game to get every achievement and perfect gear instantly. also why does it take me so long to kill people with lightsabers? i want to be able to press one button and kill someone. this game is WAY too hard.

 

There is a difference between the 30+ ability buttons some classes have now, and the one button strawman you are trying to build around a reasonable mechanics conversation.

[Rolodome]

I think the hypothetical changes that could come to the game, but are not in any way confirmed or actually exist could maybe address this somehow.

 

I do think there is some overload. I use a lot of keybindings and on some classes, it's a stretch to find a key for everything. Particularly in PvP, there's just so much situational use going on, it's hard to justify keeping anything off the bars with some classes. I feel like, if I'm running out of space and my gameplay effectiveness suffers because of it, that's a game design misstep. I realize, however, that some people click, so they don't need to fill keys and some probably are more comfortable with a higher number of keys than others, or work in a Raza Naga mouse, so they have a bunch of extra buttons on it.

 

It's hard to say, speaking from the audience, what the average use is like at all. I imagine there's anything from players who use literally every ability, to players who stick to a handful of core abilities and don't bother with min-maxing attitude. I can only speak for the struggles at the min-maxing end.

[Icykill_]

The game no longer requires off healers or off tanks because it's now become so easy.

 

When the game was harder, it could be argued that off healing/tanking had a role in pve operations/FP. But now the game is so easy that a real healer or tank is all that is needed in those.

As for normal pve story content, lol, it's so easy, especially with OP companions, the need for anything more than 2 buttons is overkill.

For pvp, these sort of "hybrids" just muddy the water and make balance even more nonsensical.

 

All off tanking and healing should just be removed, including taunt. Healer dps abilities should be streamlined. Classes with self heals should have those streamlined instead of having multiple ones, some that are just completely useless anyway. Really, any type of possible hybrid build should be removed as was their original intention when they introduced utilities.

Advanced class spec builds should also have a clear distinction. If you are a burst spec, you don't need dots. If you are dot spec, you don't need burst. If you are supposed to be mobile, don't include abilities that you need to stop moving to activate. If non mobile, allow a longer range and better turning arcs. Etc etc etc.

I'll use Sorcs as an example. Healers don't need to do any dot damage or big burst. But to make up for it, they need mobility for and dps abilities. Lightning spec should be the burst spec and should never need a dot spec ability always and nearly always be mobile like they were intended to be when 3.0 launched. Madness Sorc should not have burst at all, but their dots could have a longer range, but require some more activation.

You then have 3 distinct builds. No crossover. Heal, burst, dot.

Of course how they could do it would be a nightmare, plus heaps of people wouldn't like it that way. My comments are just an example of separating the advance specs into easily identifiable builds.

Alternatively they could dedicate one DPS build per advanced class to pvp and one to pve.

[Icykill_]

I think the hypothetical changes that could come to the game, but are not in any way confirmed or actually exist could maybe address this somehow.

 

I do think there is some overload. I use a lot of keybindings and on some classes, it's a stretch to find a key for everything. Particularly in PvP, there's just so much situational use going on, it's hard to justify keeping anything off the bars with some classes. I feel like, if I'm running out of space and my gameplay effectiveness suffers because of it, that's a game design misstep. I realize, however, that some people click, so they don't need to fill keys and some probably are more comfortable with a higher number of keys than others, or work in a Raza Naga mouse, so they have a bunch of extra buttons on it.

 

It's hard to say, speaking from the audience, what the average use is like at all. I imagine there's anything from players who use literally every ability, to players who stick to a handful of core abilities and don't bother with min-maxing attitude. I can only speak for the struggles at the min-maxing end.

 

Try having small girly hands. Keybinding all of some class abilities is just not possible unless you also use an MMO mouse, which I don't. Most don't fit nicely in my hand. So I end up half keybind, half clicker.. Which is probably the hardest way to play.

[Rolodome]

Try having small girly hands. Keybinding all of some class abilities is just not possible unless you also use an MMO mouse, which I don't. Most don't fit nicely in my hand. So I end up half keybind, half clicker.. Which is probably the hardest way to play.

I see that and raise you a tremor. My hands shake a little all the time, so I desperately need to keybind stuff. In the intensity of PvP, doing clicking, my hands can shake so bad that I can't get my mouse steady on what I need to click.

 

But yeah, for normal hands. Er, well, normal girly hands? Lol. I can see why that would be a pain.

[LordArtemis]

When 4.0 went live, they started doing it. Vanguards replaced the coned electro cannon thing attack for the ability gained at a higher level that has it in an arc-circle.

 

Basically, they replaced the abilities that shared a cooldown on classes and combined them. I'd rather have more Utilities and Utility points than abilities.

 

This is good IMO....offer the extra abilities as utilities instead. Perhaps their may be more balance issues if they up the amount of points you get, but you could then truly customize your build.

[jedip_enguin]

IMO, no, we do not.

 

There are a few useless skills per AC, but nothing drastic, and they've already shown their willingness to cut dead wood abilities by getting rid of garbage like Blitz, Cheap shot, Pommel strike etc

[LordArtemis]

Try having small girly hands. Keybinding all of some class abilities is just not possible unless you also use an MMO mouse, which I don't. Most don't fit nicely in my hand. So I end up half keybind, half clicker.. Which is probably the hardest way to play.

 

I am the same way as well. I use a core rotation for most of my classes with keybinds, and have all of the extra bloat abilities as clicks when needed.

 

I found what I felt was the most efficient rotation for each class for my purposes. At any rate, there are some abilities that I rarely if ever use, but I still feel compelled to keep them in the UI for some reason.

[Cuiwe]

The game no longer requires off healers or off tanks because it's now become so easy.

 

When the game was harder, it could be argued that off healing/tanking had a role in pve operations/FP. But now the game is so easy that a real healer or tank is all that is needed in those.

As for normal pve story content, lol, it's so easy, especially with OP companions, the need for anything more than 2 buttons is overkill.

For pvp, these sort of "hybrids" just muddy the water and make balance even more nonsensical.

 

All off tanking and healing should just be removed, including taunt. Healer dps abilities should be streamlined. Classes with self heals should have those streamlined instead of having multiple ones, some that are just completely useless anyway. Really, any type of possible hybrid build should be removed as was their original intention when they introduced utilities.

Advanced class spec builds should also have a clear distinction. If you are a burst spec, you don't need dots. If you are dot spec, you don't need burst. If you are supposed to be mobile, don't include abilities that you need to stop moving to activate. If non mobile, allow a longer range and better turning arcs. Etc etc etc.

I'll use Sorcs as an example. Healers don't need to do any dot damage or big burst. But to make up for it, they need mobility for and dps abilities. Lightning spec should be the burst spec and should never need a dot spec ability always and nearly always be mobile like they were intended to be when 3.0 launched. Madness Sorc should not have burst at all, but their dots could have a longer range, but require some more activation.

You then have 3 distinct builds. No crossover. Heal, burst, dot.

Of course how they could do it would be a nightmare, plus heaps of people wouldn't like it that way. My comments are just an example of separating the advance specs into easily identifiable builds.

Alternatively they could dedicate one DPS build per advanced class to pvp and one to pve.

 

Solo PvE should be harder. What we currently have could be a definition of "faceroll".

 

Agreed on separation between Disciplines. I like what you suggested, but there are other people who like their options, so...I'd like such Disciplines very much. I am not playing Balance for big hits, but for a river of small hits that integrates itself in a nice dps mode(typical DoT mode). Yet, there is Arsenal that I use for big boom. Also very nice. I like it when things are differentiated properly.

 

Considering PvP dps Discipline, it largely depends on how many players are still enjoying PvP here. If it's less than 25%, I've to say no. Seeing how I don't care about PvP in general, I'd have said no anyhow, but if there's a large enough bulk of people enjoying...I can't be so selfish.

[BenduKundalini]

OH NO

 

I *hated* to only have 12 abilities in ESO, 6 per weapon equipped, and only 6 in total under level 15!

 

I enjoy the diversity and actually finding the perfect keybind is a minigame for me...

[Deaconik]

And then I remember how I played High Priest or Scholar in a different MMO where I had over 20 buttons to use(some more, some less, but all of them were used quite regularly) and think that this game has too few abilities. We need more! At least keep the number still and don't lower it, BW =)

[Tsetso]

@OP. Yes we do, but only if we play sorc or sin

[Docthebutcher]

Try having small girly hands. Keybinding all of some class abilities is just not possible unless you also use an MMO mouse, which I don't. Most don't fit nicely in my hand. So I end up half keybind, half clicker.. Which is probably the hardest way to play.

 

 

MY hands are asleep 95% of the time due to CIDP and Diabetic neuropathy or they hurt so bad or both which is fun.

My ability to game good in the last year has fallen so much.

Asleep I have to look where my hands are I cant tell and in pain they move so slow or not at all.

 

 

Len

[SteveTheCynic]

And of course, to answer the question in the thread title:

 

Only if we play Inquisitor.

 

[IanArgent]

Not as much as prior to 4.0, but, yes, there's still ability bloat. It's not necessarily the big things, either, but stuff like Consulars having both Double Strike and Saber Strike. (Don't get me started on how Sages, a ranged-by-design AC, don't have a ranged basic attack. But I digress)

 

Healing classes could probably use to have some of their healing rationalized as well.

[TUXs]

We do have ability bloat, no doubt about it...but I also enjoy how many situational skills I have to use at my disposal. As much as I understand the request, I would be very disappointed to have too many trimmed...I use all of mine at different times...but I understand the request.

[Andryah]

Heh.

I am assuming you feel offering a simple mode for abilities as an OPTION would make the game too easy. If I am wrong to assume so, I welcome the correction.

 

Since you, the player, can decide which abilities to use and which to not use (and how) ,I really don't see the problem. Especially when there are plenty of class guides on the internet that will spoon feed you a rotation and ability key setup.

 

Again, trying to fix things that are really not broken.

 

And yes.. in this era of forumites complaining that the game has been dumbed down too much, this further feeds the feelings I think.

[IanArgent]

We do have ability bloat, no doubt about it...but I also enjoy how many situational skills I have to use at my disposal. As much as I understand the request, I would be very disappointed to have too many trimmed...I use all of mine at different times...but I understand the request.

 

I suppose it'd be too much to expect that BW use a scalpel instead of a chain saw, given their general habits concerning mechanical changes.

 

OTOH, the trimming of abilities in 4.0 was pretty gentle.

[Keta]

...I advise going to reddit and looking at uh... stuff...

Look away mods!

 

5.0 class changes.

 

 

yeah, that'd be a good thing for the op. I agree there is ability overload atm though. We will see what the future really brings in that department though