You've created an antisocial community

[Halinalle]

As to the first point that was discussed about people joining the first guild that invites them, I know that there should be an easier way to ask for an invite from the guild you desire. That would help people get in the right guild for them.

 

Why do you keep posting that? Already second time in this thread.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Halinalle

[lilathrone]

Tactical flashpoints pop almost instant now and on fleets 4 ppl heroic groups form in every 5-10 minutes or so.

 

Before 4.0 often I was in queue for more than 1 hour for a flashpoint. Heroics were almost always a no go because i wasn't in mood to ask around char for an hour to complete one heroic.

 

Yes they made them soloable, but as I see there are much more ppl doing them in groups than before.

[peter_plankskull]

Tactical flashpoints pop almost instant now and on fleets 4 ppl heroic groups form in every 5-10 minutes or so.

 

Before 4.0 often I was in queue for more than 1 hour for a flashpoint. Heroics were almost always a no go because i wasn't in mood to ask around char for an hour to complete one heroic.

 

Yes they made them soloable, but as I see there are much more ppl doing them in groups than before.

 

Tacticals always pop, and of course their going to pop more often than previous times, theirs a FAR larger amount of people and flashpoints to grab from. 21 flashpoints in queue from 15- 65 = >>>>>>infinite queue times compared to five flashpoint queues with only a five level disparity. Now wait in queue for GSF or a HM FP.

[UmbralSpirit]

By adding xp bonuses to guilds and making heroics and flashpoints soloable you have created an antisocial community. Why even join a guild which is meant to be social and to make friends to play with people? (The xp bonus in my opinion is stupid its already easy to lvl up without it)

 

Grouping has nothing to do with being social and playing solo nothing with being anti-social, there are way more people who group for advantages (the heroic group credit bonuses are proof of that, people wont even group with anyone below 65....now THATS anti-social....despite being in a group) than those that do it for the social aspect and there are more reasons why people prefer to play solo than theres sand on the beach being anti-social is a minor one here.

[Halinalle]

people wont even group with anyone below 65....now THATS anti-social....

 

I've seen a lot of bad behaviour from max level players but this has to be the new low.

I noticed this a few days ago on Dromund Kaas. Someone asked if anyone wants to do all heroics and all I saw was "come back when you're 65" stupidity. I would have invited guy to group but I was already almost done with heroics.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Halinalle

[AllisonLightning]

I've seen a lot of bad behaviour from max level players but this has to be the new low.

I noticed this a few days ago on Dromund Kaas. Someone asked if anyone wants to do all heroics and all I saw was "come back when you're 65" stupidity. I would have invited guy to group but I was already almost done with heroics.

 

There's one heroic on Dromund Kaas with a bonus payout- the rest... the aversion to non-65s can be beyond credits. Taking a non-65 on a bonus run and foregoing the extra payout, you can be left minus one in the group after they hit a certain level because they're doing the heroics to level. Social aspect is all well and good but I run flashpoints for the social, teamwork experience, not Heroics.

 

I run Heroics in a group for the bonus payout and to make it faster, while there's nothing wrong with a low level world- the higher the level, the slower it can get with lower levels and people who don't know their rotations. You want to be social that's fine, advertise for a group of likeminded players but it doesn't make level 65s anti-social for not wanting to do it with a lower level character or rejecting low level characters in a group forming at that level. Person who said come back at 65, well they're just a jerk- why add anything in chat if you don't want to group?

[UmbralSpirit]

Social aspect is all well and good but I run flashpoints for the social, teamwork experience, not Heroics.

 

Yes because noone ever does a flashpoint for the shinys either....

 

it doesn't make level 65s anti-social for not wanting to do it with a lower level character or rejecting low level characters in a group forming at that level.

 

Actually it does, you are literally discriminating lower level players (while being on a low level planet yourself) for the sake of greed, and that kind of attitude is like a red line through the entire game no wonder people rather play solo instead of dealing with an endless flood of jerks.

 

Putting such ridiculous ammounts of credits on Heroics is one of the worst mistakes Bioware ever made.

[Halinalle]

I run Heroics in a group for the bonus payout and to make it faster, while there's nothing wrong with a low level world- the higher the level, the slower it can get with lower levels and people who don't know their rotations. You want to be social that's fine, advertise for a group of likeminded players but it doesn't make level 65s anti-social for not wanting to do it with a lower level character or rejecting low level characters in a group forming at that level. Person who said come back at 65, well they're just a jerk- why add anything in chat if you don't want to group?

 

Having a level 65 instead doesn't make it go faster just because of level.

 

I did Taris heroics on Rep side earlier today. In "Mutations" I invited a level 65 Sage to group because otherwise we would only fight over same enemies in that small area. What she did? Started casting Mind Crush when there was only one enemy alive from group of enemies. Probably just to make it look like she did something.

 

Well, I could easily do Taris heroics even without a companion because all I would have to do is: apply dots and spread them to all enemies, spam Cyclone Slash twice -> everything dead (strong? elite? it doesn't matter). Overhead Slash almost insta kills a strong enemy.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Halinalle

[AllisonLightning]

It's why I added rotation.

 

Yes because noone ever does a flashpoint for the shinys either....

 

 

 

Actually it does, you are literally discriminating lower level players (while being on a low level planet yourself) for the sake of greed, and that kind of attitude is like a red line through the entire game no wonder people rather play solo instead of dealing with an endless flood of jerks.

 

Putting such ridiculous ammounts of credits on Heroics is one of the worst mistakes Bioware ever made.

 

I do one Heroic set usually for the credit payout, group when we're fighting over the same things and it'll let us tick it off at the same time. I usually run them solo and you would see less heroic runs with any credit reduction, not more inclusive behaviour and I've had a lower level bail out of the group because they were using us to level and while we were happy to let them group with us and take a payout hit, they were happy to leave once they hit the level they wanted. Putting the Heroics payments back up, for me, at least removed the whole needing to group for them since I can do them at my own pace.

 

I have a bunch of lower level characters, so you're getting a bit over dramatic there over discrimination but I don't insist I'm entitled to join a group. If I, at a lower level or anyone else at a lower level wants a group and asks for it independently and the high level is a jerk- that's wrong but no one has to group with you.

 

I did Heroics with one person, purposefully as a social experience and she's my best friend and we did it as part of levelling on Coruscant shortly before she got bored ( she hops MMOs like crazy), it was only fun socially at a lower level because we were on the same level and there was a challenge to it for both of us going through the Heroics at the same time. I don't like running Heroics at a lower level.

[rklontz]

His point is that people join the first guild that advertises on the starter planet rather than seeking out guilds that may potentially be a good social fit.

 

That's true in every mmo with a guild\free company you system whether or not there is an xp boost. Which is why guilds with an open recruitment policy have an incredibly high turn over rate

[Chiltonium]

Not much to say other than I agree with OP. Anti-social bunch of sociopaths imo.

[DreadtechSavant]

By adding xp bonuses to guilds and making heroics and flashpoints soloable you have created an antisocial community. Why even join a guild which is meant to be social and to make friends to play with people? (The xp bonus in my opinion is stupid its already easy to lvl up without it)

 

I am a solo player but pay the same amount of sub you do, why should BW prevent me from playing half the game because you don't like it?

[DreadtechSavant]

Yes because noone ever does a flashpoint for the shinys either....

 

 

 

Actually it does, you are literally discriminating lower level players (while being on a low level planet yourself) for the sake of greed, and that kind of attitude is like a red line through the entire game no wonder people rather play solo instead of dealing with an endless flood of jerks.

 

Putting such ridiculous ammounts of credits on Heroics is one of the worst mistakes Bioware ever made.

 

Total BS, the amount group player get in credit is the ridiculous part. Get over yourself and also keep to facts. Group player can get millions more per day over solo players and you come here and say we are the greedy players.

 

 

AS SAID GET OVER YOUR SELF,

[UmbralSpirit]

I have a bunch of lower level characters, so you're getting a bit over dramatic there over discrimination but I don't insist I'm entitled to join a group. If I, at a lower level or anyone else at a lower level wants a group and asks for it independently and the high level is a jerk- that's wrong but no one has to group with you.

 

Yea sorry about that but you have to be a bit dramatic every now and then to get a point across.

 

I did Heroics with one person, purposefully as a social experience and she's my best friend and we did it as part of levelling on Coruscant shortly before she got bored ( she hops MMOs like crazy), it was only fun socially at a lower level because we were on the same level and there was a challenge to it for both of us going through the Heroics at the same time. I don't like running Heroics at a lower level.

 

Sounds about right, what i was trying to get at was that grouping (a game mechanic) does not make one automatically social and playing solo does not make one automatically asocial trust me i've been playing MMO's since the days of meridian 59 and i've seen a lot more asocial behaviour within groups then between solo players over the years.

 

 

Total BS, the amount group player get in credit is the ridiculous part. Get over yourself and also keep to facts. Group player can get millions more per day over solo players and you come here and say we are the greedy players.

 

 

AS SAID GET OVER YOUR SELF,

 

What are you even getting at?

Edited September 8, 2016 by UmbralSpirit

[Baldrix]

I think people in general have an exaggerated and crooked idea of how social a computergame is.

 

Sitting behind a PC for countless hours, pretending to be the hero in some story, is in itself a very anti-social way to spend time, i think. You could be out with friends having fun or just talk ... now THAT would be social.

 

Joining groups to raid instances is done for one purpose only... to get personal rewards or to get some other form of personal gain. To get those rewards you are forced to put up with all the nonsense thrown at you by perfect strangers you could not care less about. Sure it can be fun sometimes but only with real friends as strangers that come too late or do things wrong too often are very unwelcome guests to say the least. Why? Because they might destroy your chance of getting your desired rewards or/and 'waste your time'.

 

Computergames are played for personal enjoyment, not to pleasure some strangers half way across the globe. I think developers are beginning to understand that in the last few years.

[rklontz]

I think people in general have an exaggerated and crooked idea of how social a computergame is.

 

Sitting behind a PC for countless hours, pretending to be the hero in some story, is in itself a very anti-social way to spend time, i think. You could be out with friends having fun or just talk ... now THAT would be social.

 

Joining groups to raid instances is done for one purpose only... to get personal rewards or to get some other form of personal gain. To get those rewards you are forced to put up with all the nonsense thrown at you by perfect strangers you could not care less about. Sure it can be fun sometimes but only with real friends as strangers that come too late or do things wrong too often are very unwelcome guests to say the least. Why? Because they might destroy your chance of getting your desired rewards or/and 'waste your time'.

 

Computergames are played for personal enjoyment, not to pleasure some strangers half way across the globe. I think developers are beginning to understand that in the last few years.

 

While I somewhat agree I disagree more. One of the biggest reasons why WoW is so successful is because of the camaraderie and friendships people have made over the last decade.

The entire purpose of an mmo is to play with other people and when game developers forget that aspect the game's starts to decline.

Which is one of the biggest if not the biggest issue with the player base in swtor right now. The devs forgot this is supposed to be an mmo and do nothing to promote that aspect.

[DarthCadius]

If anyone has created an antisocial community it's... the community. Try taking some personal responsibility instead of the easy route and blaming something else.

 

If you want to be antisocial that's your prerogative and more power to you. If you want to be social that's also your prerogative.

It's the players that make the community the way it is, not the game.

 

BEST QUOTE EVER!!!!! I agree with this 100% If you want a social community BE social, if not then not. But it is human nature to be as divisive and antagonistic to anyone and everyone that breeds the community we have today.

 

For there to be good there must evil, for there to be light there must be darkness.

[Deewe]

By hardcore I meant it wasn't necessarily casual-friendly. There were no tutorials. There wasn't a lot of explanation. It was really up to you to figure out how the game worked, and of course you could always ask other players. MMORPGs just aren't like that anymore. The experience is so streamlined and simple that people have been spoiled by MMOs such as SWTOR.

One thing though at the time WoW (and other games) did not have that good tutorials either.

Still totally agree that as there were no quests people were actually kind of lost when logging in the game.

 

I still remember doing 1-2h hours of "training sessions" to newbies. Made some great friends that way too.

 

SWG's greatest feature was choice. You could be whatever you wanted in the Star Wars universe. It had far more variety than any MMO then and now. I'd like to see SWTOR learn from SWG in some way, shape, or form, but BioWare never seems to consider sand box MMOs as a viable game for learning.

 

Many of the former devs and managers in the initial SWTOR team comes from SWG. However Raph Koster, the "author" of the sandbox in SWG wasn't part of the team.

 

You can read an excellent recap on SWG by Raph here: clicky

 

Note: he did not take the hologrind into account in his post.

 

 

SWG was never a extremely popular, or successful game. It did have however, a small but dedicated player base. For the most part, it is looked upon with rose colored glasses. Although their housing system was awesome. Enjoyed traveling and seeing player cities.

 

Not to mention, whether people admit it or not to themselves, the "sandbox" MMO game design has never been successful. As much as certain people like to try and look down at the theme park MMO as they like to call them, that is what people generally want.

The issue isn't the sandbox in itself. In fact sandbox is just a toolkit.

 

The best design for an MMO right now is to design a sandbox = choice and replayability and then you need to top it with dev made content.

 

-------------------------

So back on topic, I don't see that the devs created an antisocial community in game at all. However they are certainly moving away from the grouped content.

 

Thing is the stats shows most players want to solo play as grouping slow them and add external constraints they don't have control on. Like other not being geared, not knowing their rotation, needing to wait so they catch-up.

The more vocal players says otherwise but over 90% of the time players do solo. That is in most MMOs.

 

Now what I do remember is some time ago the communication and design decisions were so bad that BioWare regularly splitted the community in two separate groups being aggressively against each others on the forums.

Couple of examples: Space shooter, GSF, Strongholds, mandatory companions to level, lack of discussion between the player base and the designers.

 

Most of the issues would have been easily mitigated with proper design and communication. History has shown they failed that hard. Thing is they thought they knew better than us, their customers.

[Baldrix]

While I somewhat agree I disagree more. One of the biggest reasons why WoW is so successful is because of the camaraderie and friendships people have made over the last decade.

 

I am sure that is stilll true for about the same amount of people as it always was. Today however that other part of the 'community' no longer enjoys to adapt to strangers and their custom made rules and nonsense to be able to have an evening of relaxation with a mix of storytelling and gameplay. Like watching a movie by yourself.... all you need is a bowl of popcorn and a soda and the world is a perfect place.

 

The entire purpose of an mmo is to play with other people and when game developers forget that aspect the game's starts to decline.

 

I think the entire point of an MMO is a clever way of providing individuals with a pool of player driven companions for the soul purpose of getting ahead on a personal level. Now that most people are tired of beeing manipulated and abused by their fellow community members and realise that you don't need anyone to have those few hours of story driven enjoyment, the tides are turning.

 

Fortunately the developers have caught onto that and are rapidly adapting their games to the new reality. It is also the solist that spends mony to get ahead and be noticed through nice gear and other bling.

 

Which is one of the biggest if not the biggest issue with the player base in swtor right now. The devs forgot this is supposed to be an mmo and do nothing to promote that aspect.

 

MMO means nothing more than a bunch of people that are online in the same game at the same time.... nothing more.

The romantic notion that we are all craving eachothers company and are longing for that fellowship feeling has been beaten out of most of us through verbal abuse and pointless evenings spent waiting on others that never show up or have insane demands.

 

Instead of beeing treated like an NPC we can now team up with our NPC companions and do all the relevant content we like.

 

Given the choice we may even decide to team up with other players if we so desire.

[Halinalle]

Fortunately the developers have caught onto that and are rapidly adapting their games to the new reality. It is also the solist that spends mony to get ahead and be noticed through nice gear and other bling.

 

Here's secret for you. Secret that some of us have tried to keep as secret but since you guys don't get it then here it is:

Some of the best looking armor and weapons are still in random world drops. So, quit your CM hate.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Halinalle

[Savej]

By adding xp bonuses to guilds and making heroics and flashpoints soloable you have created an antisocial community. Why even join a guild which is meant to be social and to make friends to play with people? (The xp bonus in my opinion is stupid its already easy to lvl up without it)

 

Asocial. Anti-social is something different.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Savej

[TUXs]

Then blame the guild leader for bringing them in. It's not the fault of the game if people want to be antisocial and in this specific example it's the guild itself that has the power to be whatever it wants to be.

 

 

If anyone has created an antisocial community it's... the community. Try taking some personal responsibility instead of the easy route and blaming something else.

 

If you want to be antisocial that's your prerogative and more power to you. If you want to be social that's also your prerogative.

 

It's the players that make the community the way it is, not the game.

I was about to agree with you, and I still do for the most part, but...

 

The ONLY people who have the power to punish the trolls, is Bioware. They have failed at policing chat in any way. I know it's hard to do and not an easy thing to achieve, but Bioware hasn't even attempted to make an effort. All it would take is one person monitoring chat randomly for 1-hour a day, one server a day, and they could have a HUGE impact.

 

Chat is the way it is because Bioware doesn't monitor any of it, and we are powerless to do anything about it...it's like an unmoderated chat board...it quickly devolves to filth! It only takes ONE player to ruin it.

[Baldrix]

Here's secret for you. Secret that some of us have tried to keep as secret but since you guys don't get it then here it is:

Some of the best looking armor and weapons are still in random world drops. So, quit your CM hate.

 

CM hate? ....

[Victor_Nite]

I've been here since before launch, which makes me a long time player, but I guess in terms of sociability, I think I'm a bit of an anomaly. I am not sad or disappointed with the direction the game has taken in allowing soloers the ability to do things and complete stuff. I don't care so much about the MMO aspect. I'm here, cause Star Wars.

 

I don't think xp bonuses or the ability to run things solo has created an antisocial community at all. Those that are sociable and inclined to do things with other people always will. They will group and do things together because that's their nature and its fun for them.

 

And then there are those, like me. I play alone, I enjoy playing alone, I have my reasons for not grouping or wanting to group. I like the freedom to come and go as I need to without the need to explain myself to a bunch of people. If I want to spend 4 hours redecorating my house for the umpteenth time, that's for me, I shouldn't feel pressure from others to 'help' or do things. When I come on here, I want to do my own thing. It's practically the only thing where I can do whatever *I* want. I don't want to feel like I'm being mean or rude or selfish just because I want to spend my gaming time, my way.

 

When others depend on you that freedom vanishes to a degree. The ability to solo things and do activities on my own allows me to enjoy the game too. I will never group and if a game forces me to group or depend on others, then I will leave that game.

 

SWG was a wonderful game in many ways. I liked the crafting and decorating especially, that was top notch. But, I'm not a raider or groupy sort of person, and the one thing I utterly despised about that game was the need to waste time sitting in a cantina pretending to enjoy the entertainment so I could get a buff, that usually needed to be paid for anyway. The sociability factor in that game was hard core and I didn't like it. I probably wouldn't have stayed as long as I did, were it not for the one friend I had in the game, who I'd met in a different game.

 

Bottom line, I like that there are outlets for solo players here, stories are wonderful. The only reason I like other people in the world with me is for gtn purposes. I like being on my own, selfish or not, it's the honest truth.

 

Looks like we're in the same boat here. Though for me it isn't just because it's Star Wars, it's because it is a Bioware game. I lost count of how many times I've played through the Mass Effect Trilogy (and yes I still hate the ending). Also I enjoy playing this game because it continues the KOTOR storyline. I was one of those who griped when this game was announced as an MMO, and part of that reason was my lack of good internet options where I live (we had only dial-up back then and satilite reception was almost as bad, plus they cut you off if you used the data you were only allowed every 4 hours)...(things are better now), but also because I did not want to depend on someone else to enjoy the game. Primarily the story parts which included flashpoints. SO I am very happy with the direction the game has taken.

I have grouped once in a while with a few friends from high school and we formed a small guild just for us. And even though I rarely see them on anymore, I have no intention of joining another with my new characters. I have no need nor want for them. I just want to enjoy the game by myself like any other Bioware game I play.

[Andryah]

This thread presupposes that MMO communities are produced by the studio. Completely false assumption of course.

 

Players ARE the community. It ebbs, flows, evolves, devolves, at the whim of the players themselves.

 

Now.. if the OPs intent was to push for more guild enabling features... then say that and stop the hyperbole.

 

Thing is..... the nature and characteristics of a guild roster are under the absolute control of the guild leadership. Nobody can be in your guild unless you let them.