Respect for Healers

[Mahoukenshi]

When I first heard about this game, back when it was still in development, I really thought it was going to be something unique and refreshing. The LAST thing I was expecting was a WoW clone/Themepark MMO.

 

SWTOR having a the clasic Holy Trinity has actually little to do with a WoW clone. Most MMOs with this kind of combat system (tab-target combat? something like that) have them, even before WoW existed.

[KevMeup]

Please enlighten me! I've been guarding the healer and only the healer in Flashpoints (I don't do ops) for YEARS! What am I supposed to do with my guard to be a good tank?

 

A general rule, guard the healer in every tactical or generally not so dangerous situation. Guard them on all trash in anything else, then only on a boss fight swap your guard to your most threat provoking DPS, starting with Melee as they have an easier time of taking agro. Healers will grab agro of ads that have not been hit yet, so for trash, it's helpful guarding them. I think people that say always guard a dps, forget that an op consist of more than just boss fights For boss fights, I'd only swap guard to a healer if you hear them shout "Ads!" as that means they are taking too much damage from ads to do their job effectively and a guard might help while your group gets the mechanics handled better.

Edited August 30, 2016 by KevMeup

[Savej]

SWTOR having a the clasic Holy Trinity has actually little to do with a WoW clone. Most MMOs with this kind of combat system (tab-target combat? something like that) have them, even before WoW existed.

 

There really weren't -that- many MMOs before Wow. EQ1 set the standard. In EQ1 clerics were particularly needed because they minimized downtime in between close fights but it wasn't usually a total healfest as many mmoers are assuming things have to be now (since wow). I started playing tabletop games and crpgs in the 80s and played most of the major mmos until swtor; there are many better gaming models that game devs have been ignoring just because EQ1/Wow (whose success doesn't really have much to do with trinity imo). B&S, CoX, GW2, ESO, UO, AC1 - all play(ed) fine to me without dedicated healers and certainly several of those are more interesting to watch. I don't want to get into a big pointless argument, just explaining where I'm coming from. The fact that this game has dedicated healers is a check mark in the list of negatives for me.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

A general rule, guard the healer in every tactical or generally not so dangerous situation. Guard them on all trash in anything else, then only on a boss fight swap your guard to your most threat provoking DPS, starting with Melee as they have an easier time of taking agro. Healers will grab agro of ads that have not been hit yet, so for trash, it's helpful guarding them. I think people that say always guard a dps, forget that an op consist of more than just boss fights For boss fights, I'd only swap guard to a healer if you hear them shout "Ads!" as that means they are taking too much damage from ads to do their job effectively and a guard might help while your group gets the mechanics handled better.

 

That's not right. Guard does nothing for healers. They already generate half threat and only initial gain agro when the heal and a mobs not yet been hit, in which case, guard doesn't prevent all threat generation, so they still get agro in those situations. As soon as you run over and cleave, you get agro. The fps should be on adds anyway. Only guard heals in pvp, where agro doesn't matter.

[AllisonLightning]

When I trained a bit my Jedi healing powers on fleet I forgot I was queued and of course Taral V popped. Well, didn't want to waste their time and change discipline & gear so I used my Jedi healing powers to help others. They rushed. Never stopped to use out of combat heal. So I was constantly at 20-40% force. At the end I only got one thank you in form of "thank you for switching to healing". Not a nice experience. Droid boss was quite tough for us.

 

First time healing at 65 and first time Sage healing.

 

I made one of these a few weeks ago- that's such a pet peeve of mine, rushing and not letting my energy regenerate. It's ten times worse when they can't hold enough aggro and every fight I'm barely surviving, keeping them alive, me alive and getting whacked by adds they ignore while their health mysteriously never hits zero. It must be a mystery to them as otherwise, why wouldn't they make sure to deal with the current adds attacking their healer before jumping in on an almost dead enemy another DPS is about to kill if they had the slightest idea I was about to die because I'm being swarmed by three, the same amount it takes to kill a near dead silver apparently.

[AshlaBoga]

That's not right. Guard does nothing for healers. They already generate half threat and only initial gain agro when the heal and a mobs not yet been hit, in which case, guard doesn't prevent all threat generation, so they still get agro in those situations. As soon as you run over and cleave, you get agro. The fps should be on adds anyway. Only guard heals in pvp, where agro doesn't matter.

 

^This^

[gabigool]

That's not right. Guard does nothing for healers. They already generate half threat and only initial gain agro when the heal and a mobs not yet been hit, in which case, guard doesn't prevent all threat generation, so they still get agro in those situations. As soon as you run over and cleave, you get agro. The fps should be on adds anyway. Only guard heals in pvp, where agro doesn't matter.

 

Meh

 

I think who you guard depends on the situation. Personally I guard no one until I've seen them do a few trash pulls. I can usually figure out the way that makes the most sense.

 

Sometimes it is a healer. Sometimes a DPS. Sometimes it's the clothie. /shrug.

 

Guard most certainly does not do "nothing" for healers in PvE and in certain situations guarding them makes things easier.

 

I think tanks with questions on "who to guard?" would be better off not asking the question in a forum like this, and spend more time thinking about how threat works, how specific behavior impacts threat and deciding for themselves.

 

Ignore players in your group that tell you who to guard or demand guard. It's your job, not theirs, to make that decision.

[Thoronmir]

Ignore players in your group that tell you who to guard or demand guard. It's your job, not theirs, to make that decision.

Not that I disagree with your premise, but I'm curious if you offer the same advice when someone in the group tells the healer who to heal or demands healing. From your comment, I surmise that it's the healer's job, not theirs, to make that decision. Edited August 31, 2016 by Thoronmir

[KevMeup]

That's not right. Guard does nothing for healers. They already generate half threat and only initial gain agro when the heal and a mobs not yet been hit, in which case, guard doesn't prevent all threat generation, so they still get agro in those situations. As soon as you run over and cleave, you get agro. The fps should be on adds anyway. Only guard heals in pvp, where agro doesn't matter.

 

If a guard really did absolutely nothing, then healers wouldn't need an agro drop. I do agree that guarding has very little effect on trash, which is part of why I'd rather have it on me as a healer for that. For boss fights, as I said, I'd rather have it on a dps thats likely to pull and get themselves hurt.

 

1 hit will indeed snag agro, but if it's not picked up by a dps, or consistently hit by the tank it will go back to targetting the healer. When I tank it's a hobby for me to try to pick up every single mob I can, that's pretty rare though, most tanks don't run around like a chicken with their head cut off hitting everything once, they jump in and get the bigger trash and group what they can easy.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

If a guard really did absolutely nothing, then healers wouldn't need an agro drop. I do agree that guarding has very little effect on trash, which is part of why I'd rather have it on me as a healer for that. For boss fights, as I said, I'd rather have it on a dps thats likely to pull and get themselves hurt.

 

1 hit will indeed snag agro, but if it's not picked up by a dps, or consistently hit by the tank it will go back to targetting the healer. When I tank it's a hobby for me to try to pick up every single mob I can, that's pretty rare though, most tanks don't run around like a chicken with their head cut off hitting everything once, they jump in and get the bigger trash and group what they can easy.

 

It obviously does something. I should have said next to nothing. It reduces damage, jt lowers thier threat even more than it already is by default. My point was that of the only time the healer should be getting agro (add spawn), guard does nothing to lower thier threat to a point of losing the agro. Only a dps or the tank hitting them, or a taunt is going to do that. Sure, if you are on a team with such bad dps they cannot overcome the healers half rate of threat generation and you are too tied up to throw a taunt or run over and cleave, the guard will reduce thier damage. It doesn't change the fact that you were giving horrible advice on using guard.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Bobs_YourUncle

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Meh

 

I think who you guard depends on the situation. Personally I guard no one until I've seen them do a few trash pulls. I can usually figure out the way that makes the most sense.

 

Sometimes it is a healer. Sometimes a DPS. Sometimes it's the clothie. /shrug.

 

Guard most certainly does not do "nothing" for healers in PvE and in certain situations guarding them makes things easier.

 

I think tanks with questions on "who to guard?" would be better off not asking the question in a forum like this, and spend more time thinking about how threat works, how specific behavior impacts threat and deciding for themselves.

 

Ignore players in your group that tell you who to guard or demand guard. It's your job, not theirs, to make that decision.

 

Sorry, next to nothing lol. In what situation is it more effective? I'm betting in those situations you simply need better dps's. If a healer is getting agro outsideof newly spawned adds, failure of dps or tank. Again, newly spawned adds will not change agro From the healer because of guard.

[Nempo]

As a healer, I'd like to show my respect for tanks that guard not just me, but guard-swap to those who need it as well.

 

When it comes time for my MVP vote I always look for a high protection score first, then usually objectives, then heals.

 

But, yeah, when I get a tank that guards me it's pretty much gg.

 

As a PvP tank, I rarely get MVP votes. A little part of me died the other day when a heal spec sage ended (was there the entire match) with only 300k healing done...I sat at 600k protection. sorc had 5 MVP votes, I had none. A scrapper scoundrel had 250k healing done (they kept me alive with HoT's and occassionally sacrificing upper hand for the big heal on me).

In PvP if you want votes be a healer...tanks never even get voted for let alone thanked heh.

[Excise]

I tell ya, me and my tank were happy from vanilla to Shadow of Revan. Then we met.

[KevMeup]

It obviously does something. I should have said next to nothing. It reduces damage, jt lowers thier threat even more than it already is by default. My point was that of the only time the healer should be getting agro (add spawn), guard does nothing to lower thier threat to a point of losing the agro. Only a dps or the tank hitting them, or a taunt is going to do that. Sure, if you are on a team with such bad dps they cannot overcome the healers half rate of threat generation and you are too tied up to throw a taunt or run over and cleave, the guard will reduce thier damage. It doesn't change the fact that you were giving horrible advice on using guard.

I'm just wondering where you think that threat reduction would be more effective on trash? If you've got a good tank, you shouldn't be pulling things off him that he's attacking, a guard isn't going to change that. If you're attacking things he isn't, you'll get agro, and a guard won't change that either.

[gabigool]

I'm betting in those situations you simply need better dps's.

 

This for the most part. I'm assuming we are speaking solely for FP's of course. There are obviously 8-man encounters where it is optimal.

 

For me it's QoL. When I have the "gold-tunneler" - or two of them - I just find it more convenient to guard a healer. I can throw one or two flame sweeps and stuff will stick to me a bit longer and I can focus on the golds.

 

I rarely see DPS kill weak -> strong in PuGs and if trash is spread out guarding the healer saves me some running around. It reduces my annoyance slightly. Off the top of my head, trash in places like Rakata Prime come to mind.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

I'm just wondering where you think that threat reduction would be more effective on trash? If you've got a good tank, you shouldn't be pulling things off him that he's attacking, a guard isn't going to change that. If you're attacking things he isn't, you'll get agro, and a guard won't change that either.

 

It's more effective on your dps, who's job it is to catch the trash. How is it more effective on the healer? Guard does change the dps's tendacy to rip agro by reducing thier threat generation. Healers already generate half the threat of dps. Maybe I'm not catching on to what you mean, but that's pretty standard, no?

[Tsetso]

No tank is putting guard on my mara. If he does i click it off. I work for my threat - let him works for his. Putting guard is cheating

[ZanyaCross]

Tried to level a sage healer and the second I stepped into a lowbie Hypergate WZ everything in the field was on me like Baras on a buffet. Couldn't even keep myself alive much less my team. O.o

 

So yeah, anyone who can pull that off has my respect.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

No tank is putting guard on my mara. If he does i click it off. I work for my threat - let him works for his. Putting guard is cheating

 

Lol, you've been watching "how to marauder" by beattius.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Might as well comment on the op. Usually healers get my mvp vote in wz. They are the difference in the game. I've leveled all healer classes, it's a tough job. Tanking, I've not done as much. Those willing to do that need our thanks as well.There is always a learning curve, at least someone is giving I a go.

[Tsetso]

Lol, you've been watching "how to marauder" by beattius.

 

It was mostly a joke but i really hate when i use CoP and the tank taunts.

[Nempo]

Tried to level a sage healer and the second I stepped into a lowbie Hypergate WZ everything in the field was on me like Baras on a buffet. Couldn't even keep myself alive much less my team. O.o

 

So yeah, anyone who can pull that off has my respect.

 

Mostly? Hide at the edges so people have to go through/past your team to get to you. Also, throw a lot of attacks in between heals. If you see a tank while waiting in the beginning, throw heals on him. Most of us will throw guard on you as we see you are a healer...and the implication of you tossing heals at us while waiting is the unspoken understanding that...you will keep me alive and I will bodyguard around you to keep things off you (or at least hitting you for less).

 

Without a tank it is edge humping and quickly peeling off when you start getting focused. I've seen a few get nice and tricky too. Sit back and use only damage for awhile after you got focus fired and people will stop assuming you are heal spec and focus on others using healing skills. Also...shield is your friend, spam it on everyone around you consistently and it helps a lot, I do that on my DPS specs and still end matches north of 200k healing (shield is considered a heal in PvP stats).

[ZanyaCross]

Mostly? Hide at the edges so people have to go through/past your team to get to you. Also, throw a lot of attacks in between heals. If you see a tank while waiting in the beginning, throw heals on him. Most of us will throw guard on you as we see you are a healer...and the implication of you tossing heals at us while waiting is the unspoken understanding that...you will keep me alive and I will bodyguard around you to keep things off you (or at least hitting you for less).

 

Without a tank it is edge humping and quickly peeling off when you start getting focused. I've seen a few get nice and tricky too. Sit back and use only damage for awhile after you got focus fired and people will stop assuming you are heal spec and focus on others using healing skills. Also...shield is your friend, spam it on everyone around you consistently and it helps a lot, I do that on my DPS specs and still end matches north of 200k healing (shield is considered a heal in PvP stats).

 

Appreciate the advice. Might try again before long.

Edited August 31, 2016 by ZanyaCross

[Rolodome]

Main notable difference that comes to mind, from years of doing raiding as a healer (and also do quite a bit of DPS) is that as a DPS, you can generally get away with tunnel-vision, as long as you do your job well (especially if you have a good healer to back you up ). If you tunnel-vision as a healer, on the other hand, someone is probably going to die, possibly including yourself.

 

Thing about it is, I think a lot of it comes down to what your natural strengths are. If you have a strong, broad grasp of your surroundings, then healing is probably going to be easier for you than for someone who has a hard time going beyond the basic "what's in front of them." Being good at dealing damage isn't easy though. It tends to be more rote and rotational (in PvE at least), but in PvP, there's all kinds of nuance to it that can help you do better, like timing stuff together to do burst, choosing when to pressure, when to switch targets, when to burn cooldowns, etc.

 

But then, in PvP in general, I'd say having a strong, broad grasp of your surroundings becomes vital no matter what role you play. Which is why so many people struggle with it... it's really easy to get tunnel-vision.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

This for the most part. I'm assuming we are speaking solely for FP's of course. There are obviously 8-man encounters where it is optimal.

 

For me it's QoL. When I have the "gold-tunneler" - or two of them - I just find it more convenient to guard a healer. I can throw one or two flame sweeps and stuff will stick to me a bit longer and I can focus on the golds.

 

I rarely see DPS kill weak -> strong in PuGs and if trash is spread out guarding the healer saves me some running around. It reduces my annoyance slightly. Off the top of my head, trash in places like Rakata Prime come to mind.

 

See I always kill weak to strong, it alleviates the damage output on healer. And they are pretty much instakills with my assassin. Then I vanish out, and double backstab the elites or golds.

 

Worse thing is when dps tunnel on gold elites. Kill the trash first....