Lets make our voices heard - Boss fights and level sync

[Rolodome]

I mean, yeah, it's uh... it's almost funny in a way. I wouldn't ask for it to be made truly difficult, but it strikes me as funny the complete reversal of difficulty. I remember in beta:

 

When I fought Nomen Karr as a Juggernaut. I'm pretty sure I had no healing companion, or if I did the heals were really weak. It was actually a challenging fight. I brought med packs along and I had to fight him multiple times, so I couldn't use a medpack every round, or had to wait a lot in-between rounds if I was going to.

 

Now I go into those fights, sneeze on the boss, and they die. It does feel kind of anti-climactic. Thankfully, the story itself is more important to the climax than the boss fight. By the time I've gotten through the conversation and the cool choices, I've usually forgotten about how mindless the boss fight was.

[Transcendent]

You can't seriously be suggesting the game is easier now than it was...are you? Since level sync, everything can be 'challenging'. Prior to 4.0, you could out level a boss by 40+ levels, making them impossibly easy. You literally could NOT die prior to 4.0...because they couldn't even touch you. I've one shot bosses, including world bosses before level sync.

 

It certainly not harder with level sync, if you want even a remote bit of challenge when levelling now, you have to go to planets that have a much higher level than you currently are.

 

Heck I went exploring on Makeb / Rishi / Yavin at level 30 purely for the experience gained. While the aggro radius is amusing (and being stealth does not really help much!), even my companion could keep himself up (influence 8) long enough for me to run away merrily. Still, it's a nice easy way to gain 10 levels without much effort involved.

 

As for level sync working to down level you? Well it doesn't make the content any harder, all it does it the following;

 

- Provide experience if still needed.

- Add monotony to the gameplay experience compared to pre level sync.

 

I used to enjoy going back to older planets to get achievements I've missed along the way (or do the amusing ones like kill the Bormu), now? Not so much interest, mainly because it's added monotony on top on monotony. Surely that's not a good thing?

 

Anyway, on topic, I actually do think instanced bosses should have some form of level sync, if anything syncing the boss to the player level and not the other way around. That way they may actually be the "boss" fight they were meant to be.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Transcendent

[Shipwright]

You can't seriously be suggesting the game is easier now than it was...are you? Since level sync, everything can be 'challenging'. Prior to 4.0, you could out level a boss by 40+ levels, making them impossibly easy. You literally could NOT die prior to 4.0...because they couldn't even touch you. I've one shot bosses, including world bosses before level sync.

 

The story portion of this game has absolutely NEVER been challenging. If you found that it was...wow lol.

 

Very much this.

[PlasmaJohn]

I mean, yeah, it's uh... it's almost funny in a way. I wouldn't ask for it to be made truly difficult, but it strikes me as funny the complete reversal of difficulty.

 

SW:TOR was my first MMO. The concept of an interrupt was foreign to me. There were some fights you just could not get by without one. Now Kira just shreds them before I've got enough focus to do much of anything.

 

Now I go into those fights, sneeze on the boss, and they die. It does feel kind of anti-climactic. Thankfully, the story itself is more important to the climax than the boss fight. By the time I've gotten through the conversation and the cool choices, I've usually forgotten about how mindless the boss fight was.

 

I've done all the base stories so I don't really need to do them again. However I'm morbidly curious and needling Barras is always good for a laugh so I'm sore tempted.

[TUXs]

As for level sync working to down level you? Well it doesn't make the content any harder, all it does it the following;

 

- Provide experience if still needed.

- Add monotony to the gameplay experience compared to pre level sync.

Do you think it would be worth their time to create a 2nd tier of Level Sync? Rather than MAX level for the planet, allow players to scale themselves to the planets minimum? Would that please some of you?

 

See, the starting planets have ALWAYS been easy imo, including end bosses on those planets. The latter planets (Voss on) seem to be where they start to ramp up the difficulty. Now, with max influence, all my class buffs and knowledge of gameplay, I can't say I find many things that challenging other than PvP or HM Ops (minus KP/EV). Other than that, there's nothing in-game that I find overly difficult to do.

[ikinai]

Who knows what level sync brings

In a world few boss fights survive

All I know is the way I feel

When it's really hard, to stay alive

The road is long

There are minions in our way

But we fight them every day

Boss fights lift us up where we belong

With our voices heard

On a forums word

Boss fights lift us up where we belong

Far from the scrubs below

Up where the clear winds blow

[PlasmaJohn]

See, the starting planets have ALWAYS been easy imo, including end bosses on those planets.

 

Not true at all. Class story bosses on the starter planets were level 50 instances. They were not pushover fights. You had to have a decent level of gear and a reasonable understanding of your class mechanics.

 

The OP is pointing this out specifically. Downscaling us and the boss to the planet is making the fights trivial. I took my new lvl 55 sage to do the Tython heroic last night and she -flattened- the place. Her gear is nothing special, not even sure it's on level, tbh. The boss fights were meant to be solo'd so those would be even easier.

Edited August 29, 2016 by PlasmaJohn

[TUXs]

Not true at all. Class story bosses on the starter planets were level 50 instances. They were not pushover fights. You had to have a decent level of gear and a reasonable understanding of your class mechanics.

 

The OP is pointing this out specifically. Downscaling us and the boss to the planet is making the fights trivial. I took my new lvl 55 sage to do the Tython heroic last night and she -flattened- the place. Her gear is nothing special, not even sure it's on level, tbh.

No they weren't. They were never above the planets cap. Unless you mean ones where you came back to Tat or something? But the CLASS specific bosses were not 50...ever (except the final Corellia mission).

[Rolodome]

I've done all the base stories so I don't really need to do them again. However I'm morbidly curious and needling Barras is always good for a laugh so I'm sore tempted.

Needling Baras never gets old.

 

No they weren't. They were never above the planets cap. Unless you mean ones where you came back to Tat or something? But the CLASS specific bosses were not 50...ever (except the final Corellia mission).

I can't speak for early game past beta, but I know for a fact that a particular boss on Hutta that I mentioned in my previous post was level relevant in beta. He was definitely above planet level. I know I didn't imagine him being on my level. In fact, just thought of looking through old videos for proof.

 

Here's one, shows the boss is level 50, from 2012 (**spoiler warning for SW class story):

 

[PlasmaJohn]

No they weren't. They were never above the planets cap. Unless you mean ones where you came back to Tat or something? But the CLASS specific bosses were not 50...ever (except the final Corellia mission).

 

The Sith Warrior's Chapter 3 end fight is on Korriban (or was it DK?). That used to be a level 50 instance.

 

edit: I see what I did. "Class Story bosses" Should have been specific about those being Ch.3 end-bosses.

Edited August 29, 2016 by PlasmaJohn

[TUXs]

The Sith Warrior's Chapter 3 end fight is on Korriban (or was it DK?). That used to be a level 50 instance.

 

edit: I see what I did. "Class Story bosses" Should have been specific about those being Ch.3 end-bosses.

I recently did this fight, post 4.0...was I scaled down to like level 12 for it??? I didn't think to even look, but now you've got me curious...if so...that's a huge mistake imo.

Edited August 29, 2016 by TUXs

[AlrikFassbauer]

I am not speaking for anyone but myself although I hope that a few of you do agree with me.

 

Please Bioware adjust the end chapter boss fights back up to their relevant level.

I want my Sith Warriors to fight a dangerous level 50 Baras not a level 12.

 

As these fights are all in their own instance it should be very easy to separate them from the level sync of the planet they are on.

 

Who agrees?

 

I kind of agree. I fought the boss of the end of Chapter 1 of my Consular story - and meanwhile I had this as one extremely difficult path through the starship in my memory, anbd the boss being very dangerous, I defeated him within several seconds only a few days ago with my Consular already having level 50, because levelling is so fast right now..

 

The feeling of an accomplishment is totally gone.

Edited August 29, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[omaan]

I made suggestion long ago before (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=867747) but bw don't care...

[LyraineAlei]

I think characters should get a Story Mode/Hard Mode toggle so that all the story instances they go through are decidedly tougher when your toggle on HM.

 

I like this idea!

 

No one said Story Mode was hard, but it did require some thinking. Knight, right after Coruscant, had a fight where I needed to remember to use Force Kick to interrupt the guy pre-4.0, nowadays, (okay, I admit, I like doing most if not all of the side quest missions on Starter World and Capital Worlds while leveling, so I was over-leveled at the post-4.0, but still!) two hits, and he can use that ability to no significant damage to my knights.

 

Consular on Quesh had a class mission where it was recommended to manually toggle your companion, CC one of the two Elites, set your companion to the Strong of the trio, and stun the second Elite whenever you could and to not use AoE or else the CC'd Elite would join in and wipe you. Now? I think they're two Strongs and one Elite and easily curbstomped down in (seemingly) two hits.

 

And I think the OP is referring to the Sith Class Stories since they end on Korriban which is level sync'd down to 12. Those guys should not be level 12s. I wish those stayed as level 50 instances. =/

[lightSaberAddiCt]

You can't seriously be suggesting the game is easier now than it was...are you? Since level sync, everything can be 'challenging'. Prior to 4.0, you could out level a boss by 40+ levels, making them impossibly easy. You literally could NOT die prior to 4.0...because they couldn't even touch you. I've one shot bosses, including world bosses before level sync.

 

The story portion of this game has absolutely NEVER been challenging. If you found that it was...wow lol.

 

TUX, now I know your disagreeing just for the sake of it. Because although this game has never been "hard", it has certainly...CERTAINLY....been made exponentially easier then it was on day one. The fact that you are trying to say it isnt, is to me, and probably everyone else in this thread....laughable.

[TUXs]

TUX, now I know your disagreeing just for the sake of it. Because although this game has never been "hard", it has certainly...CERTAINLY....been made exponentially easier then it was on day one. The fact that you are trying to say it isnt, is to me, and probably everyone else in this thread....laughable.

That's not what I said. However...EVERY planet now has a chance for me to die, no matter how low that chance is. Prior to Level Sync, the ONLY planet I could die on was the final planet because anything 5 levels below you, couldn't even hit you. To me, that makes the current design far more engaging than it was previously.

 

I was extremely against Level Sync when it was presented...but I was wrong. I absolutely love it for what it allows me to do.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

That's not what I said. However...EVERY planet now has a chance for me to die, no matter how low that chance is. Prior to Level Sync, the ONLY planet I could die on was the final planet because anything 5 levels below you, couldn't even hit you. To me, that makes the current design far more engaging than it was previously.

 

I was extremely against Level Sync when it was presented...but I was wrong. I absolutely love it for what it allows me to do.

 

Even with level sync, I have literally pulled a zone of arou d 8-10 regulars, 2-3 silvers and 2 gold elites, and just sat there. My health never went below 2/3. There is no story or chapter boss fight that you have even a remote chance of dying in, if you have your comp out.

 

Back in the day, you could easily die in a chapter 2 or 3 boss fight.

 

And lets not forget, level sync is a joke. Because even though you are technically brought down to level, you are still way over powered, and in god mode unless you are fighting maybe a world boss.

Edited August 29, 2016 by lightSaberAddiCt

[PlasmaJohn]

I was extremely against Level Sync when it was presented...but I was wrong. I absolutely love it for what it allows me to do.

 

As much as I hate to agree that level-sync was worth it, on the whole I like it. These class boss encounters and starter planet heroics are the notable exceptions. I suppose the starters have to be that easy. I do remember struggling a bit with them at level.

 

Joined up with a really awesome group of folks doing the Balmorra heroics a few days ago and had a blast. The party was a mix of levels with a couple 60+ thrown in. I'm also finding I like the solo FP's. I don't need to stress about keeping up with the group or meeting some sort of performance standard (other than my own).

[PlasmaJohn]

Even with level sync, I have literally pulled a zone of arou d 8-10 regulars, 2-3 silvers and 2 gold elites, and just sat there. My health never went below 2/3. There is no story or chapter boss fight that you have even a remote chance of dying in, if you have your comp out.

 

I've died in heroic areas when I've overpulled with a healing companion. Now this happened on a fresh legacy on Harbinger. Maybe that might have had something to do with it.

[TUXs]

Even with level sync, I have literally pulled a zone of arou d 8-10 regulars, 2-3 silvers and 2 gold elites, and just sat there. My health never went below 2/3. There is no story or chapter boss fight that you have even a remote chance of dying in, if you have your comp out.

 

Back in the day, you could easily die in a chapter 2 or 3 boss fight.

 

And lets not forget, level sync is a joke. Because even though you are technically brought down to level, you are still way over powered, and in god mode unless you are fighting maybe a world boss.

What planet, Ord Mantell? Try that on Voss Heroics and tell me how it goes.

 

Back in the day you had ONE class buff and nearly zero Influence.

 

I'm not saying it's not still easy these days, it absolutely can be, but it was unarguably easier when the mobs couldn't even touch you...hell, 99% never even agro'd on you at a high enough level.

[Transcendent]

Do you think it would be worth their time to create a 2nd tier of Level Sync? Rather than MAX level for the planet, allow players to scale themselves to the planets minimum? Would that please some of you?

 

Well there is that. Perhaps BioWare could add an "Ironman" story game mode, where you can only do class stories / world questing (all other content disabled on that character) and you are synced below the level of the planet (by 2-4 levels). If you die then that is it for the character. They stay dead.

 

No revives ever.

 

Would certainly make the story interesting.

[Darkbloom]

There is a simpler solution than having separate instances.

 

Just raise the levels of the end-story bosses. Right now they are level 10 or something when they should be level 16 or something. I don't know the exact numbers. I just know the bosses are the wrong level.

[Darkbloom]

That's not what I said. However...EVERY planet now has a chance for me to die, no matter how low that chance is. Prior to Level Sync, the ONLY planet I could die on was the final planet because anything 5 levels below you, couldn't even hit you. To me, that makes the current design far more engaging than it was previously.

 

I was extremely against Level Sync when it was presented...but I was wrong. I absolutely love it for what it allows me to do.

 

There are three separate things that happened (not involving level sync) that I think people are mushing together.

 

First, companions are vastly more powerful now pre-L65. I started a new character on a server where I had no legacy whatsoever because I was hoping to get some DvL rewards. I am using Ashaara, who doesn't like any gifts anyway. Whatever influence I have is just through conversations. I am trying to stay geared myself because I like to do stuff like solo tacticals.

 

Ashara is still WAY more powerful than I am. Like, it isn't close. Something is just wrong with how they did companions at the lower levels. Once you hit 65 it makes more sense. But before 65, somehow Presence isn't scaling properly. Maybe it's not scaling properly with level sync, I don't know.

 

Second, they nerfed all the gold-star enemies drastically in the name of faster leveling. I'm quite happy they nerfed the weak mobs, but I don't know why they needed to nerf the gold ones. Those enemies are rare anyway and were fun to fight back when they could challenge an equal-level player with a DPS companion. (I never use healing companions while doing story, and I almost never used them before while doing story either, so all my comparisons are with DPS companions.)

 

Third, there are all the buffs you get if you are playing on a server where you have legacy.

 

Fourth, the end bosses on planets like Korriban and Hutta are the wrong level. They put them at some really low level that is way below the level you are synced to. So the end-story fights are so wrong that it shatters immersion.

 

Look, I solo tacticals while leveling. I'm not expecting the story line to challenge me. But there is a difference between "not challenging" and "Immersion-breaking because it's so stupidly weak." Barras should be able to hurt me if I don't have a healer. He can't. At all. Even if I just stand there doing nothing with my companion on passive. He can't hurt me because he is the wrong level. He is like 6 levels below me or something.

 

I think people tend to mush all 4 of these things together and think it's all level sync. It's not. Level sync is awesome. But the end bosses need to be the right level!

 

And I can say this. For whatever set of reasons, the story-line leveling is RIDICULOUSLY easier now at equal-level to planet with a DPS companion than it used to be. Ridiculously easier. Sometimes I like it because it increases immersion (When I'm plowing through the hordes of weak mobs like in the movies, with a DPS companion, not resting, not stopping for any reason, and just massacring these guys.)

 

But other times I don't like it because it breaks immersion. Again, in the movies, the fight against the big bad guy always takes a while and he always gets a few good hits in. It doesn't feel like the movies when the big bad guy is weaker than a kor-slug.

[Andryah]

TUX, now I know your disagreeing just for the sake of it. Because although this game has never been "hard", it has certainly...CERTAINLY....been made exponentially easier then it was on day one. The fact that you are trying to say it isnt, is to me, and probably everyone else in this thread....laughable.

 

^^ Agree with this assessment.

[Andryah]

I've died in heroic areas when I've overpulled with a healing companion. Now this happened on a fresh legacy on Harbinger. Maybe that might have had something to do with it.

 

The only time this happened to me (not counting the short period of time when they over-nerfed companions, and before they readjusted them), was when I was out with a companion with very low influence rank.

 

Personally, I just spend 10 minutes at level 1 and run Nico up to rank 20 [i mail the character a large stack of influence items right off the bat] and I have literally never had an issue in a heroic, even with a extreme over pull. In fact, extreme over-pulls are kind of fun these days and do really rack up XP, credits, and any mission drops.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Andryah