OP's and KOTET

[CKNORTH]

I am Currious to see at the end of October, if that BW/EA will drop a few big ol OPs at everyone, to the point of revenge for all the people that wanted OPs. As in you want OPs oh we will give you OPs!!!

 

Old school 3 hour OPs, with a mini OPs in them, 6 bosses, two mini Bosses in four separate wings, with two bosses on a top and bottom tier...

 

Although some might not see this as revenge but rather a turning point that if done right and were to happen, it could quite possibly be a very welcome thing. Oh and they kept a two mini OPs or one core OPs at the end of each chapter!

 

But probably just wishful thinking. I don't usually do a lot of the OPs stuff, but lately I have been trying for the DvL event for Legendary, most the time all goes well, few times though I end up waiting in GF without any pop for over a few hours

[rklontz]

The only way it could be an act of revenge is if they pulled another dread master fiasco where they locked the story content behind ops.

Other than that it's about the only thing that's going to save this game. Monthly chapter cut scenes releases aren't going to do it.

[VegasTheLost]

The only way it could be an act of revenge is if they pulled another dread master fiasco where they locked the story content behind ops.

Other than that it's about the only thing that's going to save this game. Monthly chapter cut scenes releases aren't going to do it.

 

The DM story was told with OPS, whatever you could solo were sidequests. Also labeling the DM story as a fiasco is hmm, cute. We're talking about the best story told in the game.

Edited August 29, 2016 by VegasTheLost

[BrotherJohn]

I think the first thing that the thread misses the mark on, is suggestion that BW is going to drop multiples of an operation into the game with KOTET. It is simply just not going to happen. The truth is they are not going to release any operations with KOTET because it is and will be purely chapter story content. Nothing more.

 

They have seen an out cry for operations from some in the game and suggested that operations are not off the table but have many times over in public forums on stage said that it was not the focus of current development. Now that does not mean they wouldn't cobble together a POS of an operations to try to stop the massive hemorrhage of players from the game, but it does mean when they say we are working on group content as a player you should look closely at what group content has been defined as by BW over the course of the last year. That group content is a single new 16m wz, 8m wz and what i would deem the biggest group content dude, eternal championship.

 

Now i say that if some form of a group encounter is released it will be nothing more than an extension of the eternal championship.

 

Which for me just does not cut it.

[rklontz]

The DM story was told with OPS, whatever you could solo were sidequests. Also labeling the DM story as a fiasco is hmm, cute. We're talking about the best story told in the game.

 

All in one's opinion I thinks it rather "cute" you think it's the best story so far.

[Rion_Starkiller]

The DM story was told with OPS, whatever you could solo were sidequests. Also labeling the DM story as a fiasco is hmm, cute. We're talking about the best story told in the game.

 

QFT

 

Dread Masters is the best story and best expansion.

 

All in one's opinion I thinks it rather "cute" you think it's the best story so far.

 

Your opinion is cute too.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Rion_Starkiller

[Tsetso]

All in one's opinion I thinks it rather "cute" you think it's the best story so far.

 

Well, i find the story pretty good too but the amount of Kephess was too much for me.

[ZanyaCross]

The DM story was told with OPS, whatever you could solo were sidequests. Also labeling the DM story as a fiasco is hmm, cute. We're talking about the best story told in the game.

 

Yeah, great story, which I had to watch on Youtube because every time I join in one of the ops I either have to spend cutscenes listening to the op leader giving instructions and explaining mechanics, or you get that one special ed case who keeps hammering out "SPACEBAAAAAAR!", only ten times as incessantly because Ops require an even bigger commitment of time.

Edited August 29, 2016 by ZanyaCross

[SFDebris]

Yeah, great story, which I had to watch on Youtube because every time I join in one of the ops I either have to spend cutscenes listening to the op leader giving instructions and explaining mechanics, or you get that one special ed case who keeps hammering out "SPACEBAAAAAAR!", only ten times as incessantly because Ops require an even bigger commitment of time.

 

I've got to agree, while I hope that those who want more Ops get them, Ops as a vehicle for storytelling was rubbish. I participated in most of them and still can't tell you half of what happened outside of combat for these reasons. It's like trying to watch a movie by pointing the projector at a cloud, it can be done, but it won't be done well.

 

However, if they implemented a solo mode for Ops, then you get the best of both worlds. Raiders get new content, people who want story can get story without interruptions, everybody wins. BW, even if KOTET is the worst thing you ever did, if you gave solo mode ops that allowed the skins of your alts to be the other seven accompanying you, I would subscribe for the whole season in advance.

[sumquy]

ya i think dm was the best storyline in swtor so far as well. as for the rest, i just don't see it. here's the thing from my point of view. if they were working on new ops, there is no reason not to say that they working on new ops. if they say that they are working on a new flashpoint, literally, nobody in the game gives a ****. that's what the whole "group content" announcement comes down to, and why they won't say ops. they want the excitement and anticipation from players, but if they tell you what it actually is, they spend the next 3 months answering variations of "are all you people *********** retarded? who asked for this?"

[gabigool]

Also labeling the DM story as a fiasco is hmm, cute. We're talking about the best story told in the game.

 

I have to agree with this. It was brilliant IMO, easily the most immersive.

[VegasTheLost]

.. the amount of Kephess was too much for me.

 

HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

However, if they implemented a solo mode for Ops, then you get the best of both worlds. Raiders get new content, people who want story can get story without interruptions, everybody wins. BW, even if KOTET is the worst thing you ever did, if you gave solo mode ops that allowed the skins of your alts to be the other seven accompanying you, I would subscribe for the whole season in advance.

 

Let's not start this again, so just simply: no.

 

#Say_no_to_solo_OPS

Edited August 29, 2016 by VegasTheLost

[SFDebris]

Let's not start this again, so just simply: no.

 

#Say_no_to_solo_OPS

 

Fine, just so long as we don't gate story behind Ops ever again.

[BlazeTomahawk]

I can honestly say I have never run an Operation. I've done HM flashpoints, tacticals, all the solo stuff, but the sheer amount of time needed for an Op is killer for me. Que for one and wait 2 hours for it to pop, then hope you have another few Hours to do it. Even on my days off I can't spend 5-6 hours on a game

[Tsetso]

I can honestly say I have never run an Operation. I've done HM flashpoints, tacticals, all the solo stuff, but the sheer amount of time needed for an Op is killer for me. Que for one and wait 2 hours for it to pop, then hope you have another few Hours to do it. Even on my days off I can't spend 5-6 hours on a game

 

You're doing it wrong. Queuing for ops is a waste of time. Just join a group or start your own on the fleet and if you're not on a dead server you'll enter most likely in 10 minute. And if it's not S&V and the group is not awful you'll finish in 1 hour.

[ikinai]

HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Let's not start this again, so just simply: no.

 

#Say_no_to_solo_OPS

 

#Say_yes_to_solo_ops as long as they are old and outdated. It's one of my favorite things to do in WoW is run the old raids by myself. It's not to get stuff other than old outfits that are basically for the looks, same could be done here. Old shells, but nothing more, no crystals or anything else should be available for solo mode.

[PlasmaJohn]

Fine, just so long as we don't gate story behind Ops ever again.

 

The attraction of Ops are the fights. As long as they're thematically related that should be "good enough". Scum and Villany is my favorite Op. How it fit into the Dread Masters story didn't really dawn on me until well after we got through Dread Palace.

 

Sticking DF and DP into the mission chain was a terrible design decision. They should never have gated that last story cutscene behind completion of DF and DP. (hint: You weren't missing much)

 

Unless what you meant was the fight with the Dread Masters. That was epic (and very frustrating) as it should have been. I can't imagine that being done as anything other than an Op.

 

tl;dr: It's entirely possible to design an Op that tells a side story.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

The DM story was told with OPS, whatever you could solo were sidequests. Also labeling the DM story as a fiasco is hmm, cute. We're talking about the best story told in the game.

 

Swtor called it a mistake to have story locked behind ops, so it technically was a fiasco.

[cool-dude]

Yeah, great story, which I had to watch on Youtube because every time I join in one of the ops I either have to spend cutscenes listening to the op leader giving instructions and explaining mechanics, or you get that one special ed case who keeps hammering out "SPACEBAAAAAAR!", only ten times as incessantly because Ops require an even bigger commitment of time.

 

Also, usually in this group, especially in OPs, most people want to spacebar through it. But, there is that one person who watches all the cuts.

Edited August 29, 2016 by cool-dude

[Rion_Starkiller]

I can honestly say I have never run an Operation. I've done HM flashpoints, tacticals, all the solo stuff, but the sheer amount of time needed for an Op is killer for me. Que for one and wait 2 hours for it to pop, then hope you have another few Hours to do it. Even on my days off I can't spend 5-6 hours on a game

 

Oh man, you're missing out. Let me do you a solid:

Start off easy with the Eternity Vault operation. It shouldn't take more than 40 minutes of your life, assuming you find a group quickly. Usually the daily GF operation is the easiest to find.

 

Look in fleet gen chat for someone saying something like " LFM EV GF SM" or something like that . This basically translates to "Looking For More Eternity Vault Groupfinder StoryMode." Send that person a whisper / tell saying your role. Example: "dps here" Next, accept the invite.

 

Most StoryMode ops are easier than a HM flashpoint, so you'll be fine. What folks do is make the 8-man group ahead of time, then they click the GroupFinder. Once you start doing operations, you'll start getting all the 216 setpiece gear, and lots of comms.

 

Good luck!

Edited August 29, 2016 by Rion_Starkiller

[SFDebris]

The attraction of Ops are the fights. As long as they're thematically related that should be "good enough". Scum and Villany is my favorite Op. How it fit into the Dread Masters story didn't really dawn on me until well after we got through Dread Palace.

 

Sticking DF and DP into the mission chain was a terrible design decision. They should never have gated that last story cutscene behind completion of DF and DP. (hint: You weren't missing much)

 

Unless what you meant was the fight with the Dread Masters. That was epic (and very frustrating) as it should have been. I can't imagine that being done as anything other than an Op.

 

tl;dr: It's entirely possible to design an Op that tells a side story.

I agree. As I said, I've done most of the Ops (some SM, some HM), but never found them a good vehicle for story because the majority there were focused on the fights and not the story. which interferes in anything story-related. Which is fine, but then putting major story content inside something that even if you did participate would make following the story difficult or impossible is a mistake. Better to just make them, at most, a side story.

 

However, if we DO want to put major story in ops again (like with the Dread Masters storyline), that making ops with a solo option would solve a lot of problems. Because given how long it's been since a new Op, plus the new game direction, it's likely BW doesn't want to invest too much in them because it's not where the metrics say the demand is in the game (though that has it's own host of problems, but we'll leave that aside), but does want to invest in story content, especially for solo players. A story-based Op with a solo mode option would thus satisfy both groups; raiders get something new and challenging, and the solo and/or story players aren't left behind, thus justifying the expense of a new Op.

 

If BW doesn't make a solo mode, it won't matter to me in the least so long as they don't gate story behind it any more (which they seem to have accepted was a mistake). I was only suggesting a have our cake and eat it too solution to making new Ops attractive for all concerned. The only thing that would excite me is the idea of taking eight of my characters through a raid, it would be epic to behold. But I won't lose any sleep if they don't.

[gabigool]

. A story-based Op with a solo mode option would thus satisfy both groups; raiders get something new and challenging, and the solo and/or story players aren't left behind, thus justifying the expense of a new Op.

 

So - what you are saying is we cannot have a cool back story for our Operations without the developers investing resources in a solo-mode.

 

I guess I missed the part where Operations were somehow inaccessible to people.

 

If you want to see the stories, do the Ops. It is literally that simple.

[SFDebris]

So - what you are saying is we cannot have a cool back story for our Operations without the developers investing resources in a solo-mode.

 

I guess I missed the part where Operations were somehow inaccessible to people.

 

If you want to see the stories, do the Ops. It is literally that simple.

 

So any time in an Operation when someone doesn't know the fights, won't spacebar through anything, and doesn't listen to instructions while narration is taking place, doesn't bother you in the slightest?

[gabigool]

So any time in an Operation when someone doesn't know the fights, won't spacebar through anything, and doesn't listen to instructions while narration is taking place, doesn't bother you in the slightest?

 

Are you trying to imply these individuals are pugging Operations to experience the story? I suspect they are there for gear.

 

Do you honestly think creating solo-mode Ops is going to somehow draw all the players that show up for Ops with zero idea how to play their class or without a shred of respect for mechanics away from PuGs? I doubt it.

 

Listen - I get that endgame in swtor is broken. Horribly so. But there is not a single solution for it that involves making a single change. Creating solo-ops is going to do absolutely nothing to improve the pool of players in your PuG.

 

My point, is that there are encounters that clearly should be designed around group play. The Dread Masters is a great example. I do not see how realistically, a player should expect an encounter with four of them at once should be solo-able.

 

And I get that there are players that would rather not group. I get that. But that is not the same thing as saying that "story" is somehow "locked" behind group play. It is simply being given a choice. Do it, or don't do it.

 

I don't want to play this game solo. It's boring. I like talking with other players. Joking around. Meeting new people. Fighting things that actually require more than just me. It feels more.... epic. But I certainly do not feel "story" is "locked" behind solo play. I either do it or I do not.

 

The threshold for entry into Story Mode operations is a joke currently. If you spend - literally - 1 minute reading the strat for a fight you'll be more knowledgeable than half of your group. there are few dps checks in SM operations (I would say none, TBH). Nothing is stopping anyone from "seeing" story except themselves.

 

If you have an hour, you can get through just about anything in the game. The guy above who is talking about 5-6 hours.... come on. You can do SM DF in about 40 mins. DP in about the same. I'm so tired of this "gated" stuff - it's just hyperbole. Just do it, or don't do it. IMO doing it is more fun, but you have a choice. Not a gate.

[SFDebris]

Are you trying to imply these individuals are pugging Operations to experience the story? I suspect they are there for gear.

 

Do you honestly think creating solo-mode Ops is going to somehow draw all the players that show up for Ops with zero idea how to play their class or without a shred of respect for mechanics away from PuGs? I doubt it.

 

Listen - I get that endgame in swtor is broken. Horribly so. But there is not a single solution for it that involves making a single change. Creating solo-ops is going to do absolutely nothing to improve the pool of players in your PuG.

 

My point, is that there are encounters that clearly should be designed around group play. The Dread Masters is a great example. I do not see how realistically, a player should expect an encounter with four of them at once should be solo-able.

 

And I get that there are players that would rather not group. I get that. But that is not the same thing as saying that "story" is somehow "locked" behind group play. It is simply being given a choice. Do it, or don't do it.

 

I don't want to play this game solo. It's boring. I like talking with other players. Joking around. Meeting new people. Fighting things that actually require more than just me. It feels more.... epic. But I certainly do not feel "story" is "locked" behind solo play. I either do it or I do not.

 

The threshold for entry into Story Mode operations is a joke currently. If you spend - literally - 1 minute reading the strat for a fight you'll be more knowledgeable than half of your group. there are few dps checks in SM operations (I would say none, TBH). Nothing is stopping anyone from "seeing" story except themselves.

 

If you have an hour, you can get through just about anything in the game. The guy above who is talking about 5-6 hours.... come on. You can do SM DF in about 40 mins. DP in about the same. I'm so tired of this "gated" stuff - it's just hyperbole. Just do it, or don't do it. IMO doing it is more fun, but you have a choice. Not a gate.

 

I'm not saying that it will remove those people. You said

 

If you want to see the stories, do the Ops. It is literally that simple.

That means then, that I can just go into the Op without knowing the fights (because to do otherwise would inevitably give spoilers) and I could stop to participate in all the story aspects and tune out any attempt at interruption. If I can't, then it's not that simple, I have to find out things the story is supposed to show me ahead of time and try to experience the story with people who don't want to wait for me. And what's more, if the fights are the draw, then why must we put in major story elements that people don't want to sit through? It seems reasonable to:

 

A) Make Ops with unrelated story ala EV

 

B) Make Ops with major story ala Dread Fortress with an optional Solo mode

 

Why must we do Ops with Major Story? How does that benefit the game, if the only way to fully experience it is for players who know what they're doing but in most cases don't really care after the first couple of times, to carry those who haven't done it before and are only here to have a chance to continue the story they already had in their PVE tales? It seems like in that case, nobody wins: you have the experienced getting frustrated and the story people missing out on what they came for while being shouted at by strangers.

 

Like I said, you don't have to convince me to try out Ops, I've done most. I can't tell you half of what happens in most and find them the storytelling equivalent of a prostate exam the way they're currently done (the story of EC is, I remember, of a group of people knowing when to get on a tank; there might have been a Trandoshan in there somewhere too), they are the challenge of battle and that's all because that's the only thing the other players in the group allow it to be. And the game should have that to appeal to those types of players, the diversity is good for everybody. All I'm saying is that if that's what raiding is for, that's what it should be about. Being about the ongoing PVE story is ultimately only an obstacle to both those interested in raiding and those interested in story.

 

The solo thing, as I said, is a suggestion to have your cake and eat it to, but if they don't I won't care so long as they keep them as self-contained or at most inconsequential tangent stories. But not another "To find out how it ends, go to youtube" tale.