Dark vs Light - Flashpoint Master

[VelRathis]

Dear Devs and Bioware,

 

Id like to propose that Flashpoint Master be removed from the required achievements of Legendary Status on the Dark vs Light Promotion.

 

The reasons for this are twofold:

 

First there are issues and bugs with the achievement generally, which remain unfixed, whilst the Devs have had a valiant crack at fixing these bugs, they remain.

 

Second, the achievement requires that players complete content largely un-achievable with PUG groups, that is there are noted heroic flash point bosses where the scaling and mechanics have not been adjusted for the level and gear requirements advertised in the game.

 

As I understand it the Dark vs Light event was introduced to Celebrate the 5 years of SWTOR, to encourage players old and new to explore the game and influence the Dark vs Light event outcome.

 

The Flashpoint Master Achievement with its bugs and with the complexity and difficulty attached to some Heroic Flashpoint Bosses (that exceeds even operations content), renders this achievement out of the reach of all but the most proficient, dedicated and well geared (and spawn lucky) players. That's fine of itself, but that outcome is IMHO detrimentally effecting perception of and engagement in the DvL event.

 

On that basis Id like to propose that rather than dedicating Dev resource to addressing these issues in the short term, that the Flashpoint Master Achievement be removed from the Legendary Status DvL requirement.

 

As stated this is just my humble opinion, feel free to support / flame as your own opinion dictates.

[josephxp]

Dear Devs and Bioware,

 

Id like to propose that Flashpoint Master be removed from the required achievements of Legendary Status on the Dark vs Light Promotion.

 

The reasons for this are twofold:

 

First there are issues and bugs with the achievement generally, which remain unfixed, whilst the Devs have had a valiant crack at fixing these bugs, they remain.

 

Second, the achievement requires that players complete content largely un-achievable with PUG groups, that is there are noted heroic flash point bosses where the scaling and mechanics have not been adjusted for the level and gear requirements advertised in the game.

 

As I understand it the Dark vs Light event was introduced to Celebrate the 5 years of SWTOR, to encourage players old and new to explore the game and influence the Dark vs Light event outcome.

 

The Flashpoint Master Achievement with its bugs and with the complexity and difficulty attached to some Heroic Flashpoint Bosses (that exceeds even operations content), renders this achievement out of the reach of all but the most proficient, dedicated and well geared (and spawn lucky) players. That's fine of itself, but that outcome is IMHO detrimentally effecting perception of and engagement in the DvL event.

 

On that basis Id like to propose that rather than dedicating Dev resource to addressing these issues in the short term, that the Flashpoint Master Achievement be removed from the Legendary Status DvL requirement.

 

As stated this is just my humble opinion, feel free to support / flame as your own opinion dictates.

 

Well heres the thing, i pugged nearly all (blood hunt was the exception) of my HM's for it and i am just waiting for DoM to be fixed which will be in 4.7.1 then im finished with the event, not to mention people already are at 100% dark vs. light achievements because they finished Flashpoint Master before chp 16 was released.

 

The whole point of the event structure is so that everyone can easily get heroic tier for the companions but only those whom are die hard players can get the legendary tier.

 

I do not support removing it.

[-PassingStar-]

First there are issues and bugs with the achievement generally, which remain unfixed, whilst the Devs have had a valiant crack at fixing these bugs, they remain.

 

Second, the achievement requires that players complete content largely un-achievable with PUG groups, that is there are noted heroic flash point bosses where the scaling and mechanics have not been adjusted for the level and gear requirements advertised in the game.

 

As I understand it the Dark vs Light event was introduced to Celebrate the 5 years of SWTOR, to encourage players old and new to explore the game and influence the Dark vs Light event outcome.

 

The Flashpoint Master Achievement with its bugs and with the complexity and difficulty attached to some Heroic Flashpoint Bosses (that exceeds even operations content), renders this achievement out of the reach of all but the most proficient, dedicated and well geared (and spawn lucky) players. That's fine of itself, but that outcome is IMHO detrimentally effecting perception of and engagement in the DvL event,.

Your "real" issue is that the HM flash points are beyond your skills to complete. They're meant to be difficult. By the way, I completed the master level using nothing but PUGs. - yes, you actually need to know what you're doing, that's what the Legendary achievement is all about.

 

Furthermore, the only bugs I ran into were in the Manaan FP, which had a habit of not completing in the Expert event list.

 

Removing the Flash Point Master would be a slap in the face to those of us who actual know how to play the game.

 

Peace

[Aowin]

No. Bad idea. DvL was meant to encourage players to dabble in ALL folds of SWTOR. HM FPs, while it's obviously the hardest achievement to complete, is part of BioWare's goal of celebrating all features of the game.

 

The bugs with the achievement are irritating, but that has nothing to do with the flashpoints, themselves. I was able to PUG every single HM FP and I completed the achievement. Sure, some are harder than others (Blood Hunt HM). That being said, you are just as capable as we were to find a good healer, tank, dps, etc., and plow your way through. To remove the only achievement that was actually a challenge for legendary level would be a slap in the face to those of us who actually completed it.

 

Legendary level is meant to be an achievement. It wasn't supposed to be easy. It is something you were meant to earn, and that's surprising as SWTOR is the easiest MMORPG I've ever played. I'm glad BioWare made at least one achievement that required effort and time.

 

I did DvL on an entirely new server I do not play on because my main server didn't have enough character slots for the event. If I can get it done being guildless and still make it work, so can you.

[Setta]

I admit I got lucky with HM BH, because originally I was just going to ask my guild for help. Instead I was pugging other HM Flash points and ended up in HM Lost Island and we stomped hard. So I suggest we pug HM BH for those that needed it, like myself. Healer already had it and didn't want too, so we tried out luck as the 3 of us and qued. Got another solid healer and demolished HM BH with 0 deaths, let alone wipes. Point being is it's very, very doable if the group is half way geared, and knows how to play. I think I was mostly in trash 220s at the time sent from alts. Set 216 pieces are considered better, and honestly you have 0 excuse for not being able to get them, as story mode ops are easy mode. The only thing I don't have yet is HM Manaan, because Bioware can't get their **** together, and the Gree event, because I was busy the first week. Sad part is I've done HM Manaan 3 times now, and still nothing.

 

However other than what bugs aren't allowing you to accomplish (Manaan) everything else is doable. And I'm sure it'll either get fixed or they'll just remove the bugged parts from the requirements before the event ends, so suck it up and go destroy those achievements. There's really only 1 or 2 of them that requires any effort, and honestly it's really not that hard either.

 

Instead just consider yourself luck that none of the requirements are like HM Ravengers, or ToS, or even the bonus boss from Battle of Rishi, now those I could see people complaining about as like 1 to 2% of the population would get it.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Setta

[ZanyaCross]

The whole reason HM exists is to be hard, and you only have to do each one once across all characters.

[ChadSkywalkur]

Nice to see some decent replies instead of the usual QQing about how hard it is to do hard things. And for lots of people it isn't even considered hard.

 

I pugged everything for the event and even did HM BH three time. (once for the event, once to help somebody else for the event, and once randomly for the daily reward.) All while on a new server with basic gear.

 

The event does encourage new players to explore the game, that's what tacticals are for. The event also encourages players to get better, that's what hard mode is for.

Edited August 22, 2016 by ChadSkywalkur

[josephxp]

Nice to see some decent replies instead of the usual QQing about how hard it is to do hard things. And for lots of people it isn't even considered hard.

 

I pugged everything for the event and even did HM BH three time. (once for the event, once to help somebody else for the event, and once randomly for the daily reward.) All while on a new server with basic gear.

 

The event does encourage new players to explore the game, that's what tacticals are for. The event also encourages players to get better, that's what hard mode is for.

 

Yup overall its not to bad, i mean the foundry and boarding party (the group we started with randomly in GF decided to do the foundry right after) took us 1 whole hour to do both HM's.

 

Get out of your comfort zone, learn your class rotations, get basic gear and you will be fine.

[Cedia]

I would support just Blood Hunt, Lost Island, Battle of Rishi, and Depths of Manaan being removed, as the difficulty rating on those four are currently closer to nightmare than hard.

 

That having been said, I was able to pug all but BH and DoM with my 216 geared/augmented Infiltration Shadow. Apparently that class does not put out enough DPS to complete these, if I am to believe what I have been told.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Cedia

[Aowin]

...

 

That sounds more like an excuse than any factual evidence. Even if this were to be true, you could easily do HMs on another character that is considered more "optimal" for HM FPs. I was able to do all of the HM FPs just fine with my juggernaut tank in 208s and augments. This content is not hard. It just requires players who know how to play their classes and know the mechanics for each boss.

 

When we start to consider removing certain FPs because of their "difficulty," it becomes a slippery slope where everybody wants something removed. The simple truth is all of these HM FPs are more than doable and plenty of players have already unlocked legendary level. If they are capable of doing it, so is everybody else.

[josephxp]

I would support just Blood Hunt, Lost Island, and Depths of Manaan being removed, as the difficulty rating on those three are currently closer to nightmare than hard.

 

Ironically i pugged Lost Island and we didn't wipe once, which is good considering the tank and a dps had never done it on its regular difficulty let alone HM.

[josephxp]

That sounds more like an excuse than any factual evidence. Even if this were to be true, you could easily do HMs on another character that is considered more "optimal" for HM FPs. I was able to do all of the HM FPs just fine with my juggernaut tank in 208s and augments. This content is not hard. It just requires players who know how to play their classes and know the mechanics for each boss.

 

When we start to consider removing certain FPs because of their "difficulty," it becomes a slippery slope where everybody wants something removed. The simple truth is all of these HM FPs are more than doable and plenty of players have already unlocked legendary level. If they are capable of doing it, so is everybody else.

 

Yup always the case, its not the gear its knowing the mechanics, this is why you pull up a dufly guide before each boss fight go over the mechanics, remind them to stay out of the AoE for the 20th time and run it. Do it have people whom are half competent and you can get through them.

[HeatRacer]

I admit I got lucky with HM BH, because originally I was just going to ask my guild for help. Instead I was pugging other HM Flash points and ended up in HM Lost Island and we stomped hard. So I suggest we pug HM BH for those that needed it, like myself. Healer already had it and didn't want too, so we tried out luck as the 3 of us and qued. Got another solid healer and demolished HM BH with 0 deaths, let alone wipes. Point being is it's very, very doable if the group is half way geared, and knows how to play. I think I was mostly in trash 220s at the time sent from alts.

 

Hey, did that happen this last Saturday? That sounds like what happened for me when I q'd for HM's last Saturday night and was extremely fortunate that everyone was actually geared and knew what to do. The run went so smoothly that three of us decided to keep going, picking up another geared healer (merc). Knocked out Lost Island, Blood Hunt, Assault on Tython HM's one right after the other. It was a beautiful thing, having everyone automatically go to the corners on the first boss of AoT without even needing to say anything!

[Cedia]

Yup always the case, its not the gear its knowing the mechanics, this is why you pull up a dufly guide before each boss fight go over the mechanics, remind them to stay out of the AoE for the 20th time and run it. Do it have people whom are half competent and you can get through them.

 

Yeah, well, when I'm following the Dulfy guide to the letter and still get told I'm not doing enough damage, something is definitely wrong. I really hate being called stupid over and over and over again.

 

That having been said, I am working on my Lethality Operative and enjoying her a lot more anyway.

[Setta]

Hey, did that happen this last Saturday? That sounds like what happened for me when I q'd for HM's last Saturday night and was extremely fortunate that everyone was actually geared and knew what to do. The run went so smoothly that three of us decided to keep going, picking up another geared healer (merc). Knocked out Lost Island, Blood Hunt, Assault on Tython HM's one right after the other. It was a beautiful thing, having everyone automatically go to the corners on the first boss of AoT without even needing to say anything!

 

This happened the day of 4.7a, I remember because right after that I wanted to finish up Manaan, and get my achievement. I was happy to be done with BH, especially by a pug group, that that I posted my HM FP list in guild chat saying HM BH pugged succesfully with no deaths. Then I almost immediately noticed the data not found bs for Manaan, and wanted to cry. Checked the forums, and news of it really not working anymore was up already. Before that there was the fire can't kill him bug, who's work around wasn't working all that well, but at least it was achievable for some....

 

Also Assault on Typhon was not part of our pug either that day, though for those guys I would have gladly helped anyone who still needed it no questions asked. That aside I'm glad to know that similar experiences are happening to other people, as well. It's always an awesome surprise to get a kick *** pug group, that decimates a HM you normally want to cringe at!

[Schoock]

I love threads like this.

 

Blood Hunt HM first boss (on which most of the pugs epicly fail) is 2-mannable. I found the last boss of that FP to be somewhat challenging to heal, but then again it was a full PUG group with me being in PvP gear.

 

We did Depths of Manaan with 3 people, again me healing it in PvP gear. I'm 80% sure it's doable with 2 people, though we didn't try it.

 

Before you start throwing phrases around like "nightmare difficulty", learn what they mean first.

[Setta]

I love threads like this.

 

Blood Hunt HM first boss (on which most of the pugs epicly fail) is 2-mannable. I found the last boss of that FP to be somewhat challenging to heal, but then again it was a full PUG group with me being in PvP gear.

 

We did Depths of Manaan with 3 people, again me healing it in PvP gear. I'm 80% sure it's doable with 2 people, though we didn't try it.

 

Before you start throwing phrases around like "nightmare difficulty", learn what they mean first.

 

Nothing to do with your actual post, I just wanted to say that as a 30+ y/o pub player, I love your sig.

[ChadSkywalkur]

I would support just Blood Hunt, Lost Island, Battle of Rishi, and Depths of Manaan being removed, as the difficulty rating on those four are currently closer to nightmare than hard.

 

That having been said, I was able to pug all but BH and DoM with my 216 geared/augmented Infiltration Shadow. Apparently that class does not put out enough DPS to complete these, if I am to believe what I have been told.

 

Another problem with removing certain ones is its often the group, not the particular FP, that sets the difficulty.

 

Lost Island was one of the easiest ones I did with the other people in 220's/224's. And Battle of Rishi, while more challenging because the group was not geared well, especially the healer, was also done without any wipes because everyone knew what they were doing.

 

On the other hand the hardest one I did was Maelstrom Prison. The tank and healer were both brand new out of the box start at 60 players with nothing in their legacy achievements but KotFE. We had wipe after wipe (after wipe...) while I tried to explain the basics to them, and by the end we beat [redacted] - the final boss - first try. Although I swear that tank still didn't know what a taunt was.

Edited August 23, 2016 by ChadSkywalkur

[Kurfer]

Can't you just do them all on solo mode?

[Klaus]

Why all complaining about Blood Hunt? With proper gear, and knowing of the mechanics is a normal FP, not harder than the others. First boss---all must "hug" it,Last boss-healer only take care of him and tank, ocassionaly throu a heal to dps, and if sorc, use the hell out of the force barrier and phase walk....simple as that!Regarding the topic...Legendary is for the hardcore...if u want to become one, than work it baby!

[angelturbo]

My issue with the Flashpoint Master achievement is not the flashpoint itself, its more the quality of the players that are in the group. It is very frustrating that people make it more complicated than it needs to be. I am disappointed that i have to rely on skills of other "players". Players tend to panic or not realize that the fights are just rinse and repeat.

 

General: lfg - can bring any role - LvD flashpoint master

[KyaniteD]

My issue with the Flashpoint Master achievement is not the flashpoint itself, its more the quality of the players that are in the group. It is very frustrating that people make it more complicated than it needs to be. I am disappointed that i have to rely on skills of other "players". Players tend to panic or not realize that the fights are just rinse and repeat.

 

General: lfg - can bring any role - LvD flashpoint master

 

That's why I would have liked it better if the HM flashpoints had been tiered like they have been before, so people could queue for the content they feel they can handle. I totally don't blame anyone choosing random queue for the rewards knowing they can do *most* of the stuff and then quitting when it turns out to be one of the SoR flashpoints (just because someone like me is fishing in random queue for specifically these).

 

I managed to PuG them all as DPS except for Blood Hunt, which I ended up paying for a group, and I have to say it was well worth every credit. 25 minutes painless one-shot vs. weeks of trolling GF random queues or being stuck on fleet LFG is not even worth considering.

 

I don't doubt it can be done with a pug, but for DPS in particular it can be very time consuming to find a group that is capable and willing. My schedule for November is very busy and I didn't want to spend what little time I have stuck in GF or on fleet.

 

Server forums are a good platform to look for groups and schedule a run (paid or unpaid) instead of sitting in GF or on fleet for hours. So anyone having problems finding a group for any of the DvL achievements should go there and give it a shot.