Tsetso Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Ops do not have two 8 second stuns. No class does. They have an 8 second mez that must be used in stealth on a target that is not in combat. Well sins have 2s stun on spike and with haunted dreams the ww becomes a 2s stun too but otherwise you're right - actually no class in the game has a single 8s stun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmarantKando Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) At 70k health, getting 3 crits from a powertech at 19k each means that you're pretty much dead in a few globals. If you're getting globaled by one enemy you really need to learn how to play. Edited August 20, 2016 by AmarantKando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Or switch to another class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) del /5char Edited August 20, 2016 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) Nvm this community is hopeless. Post a video of how good and immortals your sorcerers are... I'll wait forever I guess. Edited August 20, 2016 by Ethern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 when I see elite warlords sorcerers on my server getting rekt, whereas average juggernauts with no expertise can survive very long and deal enormous damage, I think sticking to that glass canon is not worth it. Nvm this community is hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixenRawR Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 SNIP ... Ops are by far one of the most useless classes in 8 v 8 if both teams are competent. Unless you have more than one op their utility as dps is almost no existant in team play. Ops can hold a node as fine as any other. They have two 8 seconds stuns (if you break the first, you get a 2nd stun). If your DCDs are shot, then an Op can stun a person for 16 long seconds, long enough for help to arrive at the node. Given that, Ops can roll off damage, stealth out and although their DPS is dot spec and not bursty, an operative in the hands of a good pvp player is downright deadly for DPS (for me as a Sage at least). In Voidstar, a good Operative will get the doors down via stealth and speed. After the 1st door goes down, an Op will be at the bridge ASAP and get it down before the enemy arrives and then will speed away to the next door and get it down before the enemy has even passed over the bridge. In Huttball, by far, Operatives are the best class for ball running. Yes, a good PT tank or tank can do it but Operatives have all the necessary tools to run the ball effectively since most players will be death matching. In Alderaan, nodes are usually guarded by one person and since Ops are designed for 1 v 1, capturing a node is what the Op should be doing. The real question here is not the class itself but how the class is played by the person playing it. I have seen incredible operatives prevent node captures for what seems like forever due to their extreme high mobility, seemingly infinite interrupts and the ability to roll off damage is amazing. The mobility of an Operative is truly OP. I'm not quite sure you play operatives, you don't seem to quite understand the specs. First off, a sin has way more cc control than an operative, also they can soft stun for 16 seconds as well. Second off, you say ops can roll of damage then follow up by saying they are dot spec? Are you talking about Concealment or Lethality? Concealment lets you roll and absorb dmg during the roll. Lethality will proc kolto infusion to heal when rolling. Unless you consider acid blade "dot spec". I would somewhat agree with it not being bursty as ops don't get those 23-28k crits that a lot of other classes can land. Why do people make the argument that in the "hands of a good player XXXX class can do this or that." Any class any spec in the hands of a good player will dominate someone who isn't as good. I can destroy a bad op on a merc healer. It's pointless to argue if someone is a better player they will know how to work around players who aren't as talented and they will fail to take advantage of their cooldowns the right way. The argument is invalid, all good players will beat bad players regardless of their class unless its a 1 v 5 or something, even 5 bad players can kill a good player if they don't escape or run away. Ops best at ball running? That only works on very bad teams, and then every class can do it including a sniper. You think ops being able to roll off the top edge is overpowered and skip the flame? I can grab the ball on my PT and be scoring in 8 seconds if im not being focused. An op can be rooted and cant roll. When their roll is on cooldown any team can rip them apart. Jugg tanks can last forever, still have mad dash, leap, and even the movement immunity for 20 seconds if they take utility. Honestly imo huttball is dead, the map was designed for lvl 50's, not 65's with all these movement abilities. Also ops sucks on queshball, you ever try to roll up a ramp? The only way an op is planting on a door is if your team is somehow slowing and ccing the rest of the people coming down the ramp. Teamwork is the only way an operative...or any player to get across the map quickly. Yes they can roll and travel over a longer distance than a sin can but honestly its straight back to teamwork. I don't see ops consistantly capping all the doors for it to be that huge of a problem. IT has happened but usually its an entire team working together to allow the op to slip through the cracks. Timed cc, pulls, and slows to keep the enemy advancing is what allows someone to blow through so many doors and keep capping. There is no way an op can cap in civil war if the person being attacked makes a call. They don't break their first cc, which means if they did get mind trapped they now have a full 8 seconds to quickly say "Stealth Grass" which takes 2 seconds to type. So if the op is hoping you to break cc you now have those 6 seconds if someone reacted they could already be dropping down from mid. After that an op couldn't even burst you fast enough because every class has enough cooldowns to survive. A merc can keep an op at bay with knockbacks, net, H/O and running around, as the same of any ranged class. Mara has undying and camo to buy time. Jugg...need I say more? Point is...if the person at a node with an op doesnt call, it will fall. If they are an inferior player, it will fall. I've gone to grass or snow right off the start of civil war and massacred the person who guarded but they didnt even call, use cooldowns, or try to buy time. This is why operatives are one of the worst classes in 8 v 8. If there is good teamwork, an operative could be replaced by any class to do better. Unless you have multiple stealthies or leave the stealth to guard because of mind trap or sleep dart. But same thing like I said before, anyone can survive a cap so you don't really need a stealth to guard either if there is good teamwork. Operatives have next to no utility to support a team. They don't have predation, they can't guard, their off heals are horrible and limited, they can't pull you out of harms way. Their aoe is extremely limited and lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixenRawR Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Back on topic, when the first rumors came out about sorcs getting phasewalk everyone was laughing and joking about it. Bioware actually went through with it and made sorcs even more OP then before 4.0. I really hope BW will fix their mistake with the coming expansion because three major expansions with the same overpowered class is just complete nonsense. I remember joking about sorcs getting phasewalk when 3.0 dropped. I was like can you imagine how OP that was? I was just laughing cause it was such a joke. Then it happened. So now I am waiting for mobile barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I remember joking about sorcs getting phasewalk when 3.0 dropped. I was like can you imagine how OP that was? I was just laughing cause it was such a joke. Then it happened. So now I am waiting for mobile barrier. Theyll get exfiltrate with the extra ability of doing it while rooted built in as a passive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixenRawR Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 If you nerf or remove those tools from sorcerers, you don't make them balance, you make them easy food. Their light armor is not much protection for any kind of harassment or burst. It's not rare to get 3 shot, when some can inflict you 19k crits. 19k x 3 = 57k. You would have to be naked in pvp to have that low of hps and operatives cannot spam 3 19k attacks. Light armor? Armor hardly matters in this game. You have a bubble that can absorb quite a bit of damage, 3 cc escapes so you can never truely be white barred and stuck being ganked unless you have little or no team support and the focus follows you to your phasewalk location because A. It was poorly placed. B. There are no enemies between you and the location. Bubble stun is also a great utility to ward off burst as if anyone hits you for 19k they are stunned. You can easily back away, reapply a bubble and pop a heal in that time. You have knockback root which can keep people off of you. Endless slows, and if you are heal spec one roaming mend could heal you for almost half your life if you are low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixenRawR Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 You can't be serious. I see operatives and sith assassins escaping coordinated all the time. I see juggernaut tanking coordinated bursts all the time. I see sorcerers and mercs getting rekt in a blink of an eye from coordinated bursts all the time. At 70k health, getting 3 crits from a powertech at 19k each means that you're pretty much dead in a few globals. Nerf sorcerers to oblivion if you want I don't even care anymore, I barely play mine. I'm not skilled but when I see elite warlords sorcerers on my server getting rekt, whereas average juggernauts with no expertise can survive very long and deal enormous damage, I think sticking to that glass canon is not worth it. The warzones I did today were full of juggernauts with some operatives. But nerf sorcerers anyway. I could take a screenshot of my next 30 warzones and I promise you that sorc/sage will be the higest played class out of any. You obviously do not play other class, nor understand their limitations or abilities. I don't main a single class. I play every class and spec out there because I enjoy it and it allows me to understand what I am facing and how to react to it. I don't sit there and spam snipe or ambush on a jugg that shows saber reflect, because I recognize the animation as well as the tooltip on their character. I pay attention to when sorc use barrier because I know I have at the minimum 2 1/2 minutes to kill it and if it dies quick I can refocus it knowing there is no barrier and not waste net. No one gets 3 shotted by one person. No one can burst that high with 3 different abilities. Yes maybe 3 mercs all use heatseeker and get 28k each on you. Though I litereally cannot see one class surviving a 3 merc assault without backup. It's silly to think you should be able to survive 3+ people for any amount of time. If you are alone with 3 mercs its a bad day for anyone. If you are alone it either means your teammates died really fast, you didn't make a call because 3 mercs dont just sneak up on you. You see them coming at a distance. Oh and btw you just said you see mercs and sorcs getting wrek'd, but mercs have heavy armor? sorcs have light? You see it really doesn't make much of a difference. I agree mercs need better survability, but tbh I feel pretty godly when I play my sorc, I can los, kite, heal to full around a corner with dark heal spam. The only other class that is easier to stand in groups is a Jugg just by the amount of cooldowns they have, but they still can't escape 3 cc's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmarantKando Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) I remember joking about sorcs getting phasewalk when 3.0 dropped. I was like can you imagine how OP that was? I was just laughing cause it was such a joke. Then it happened. So now I am waiting for mobile barrier. Personally I'm excited for the 5.0 ability which will allow Sorcs to fly. Edited August 20, 2016 by AmarantKando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) I don't care. show me those sorcs vids. Anyway this game will never be balanced nerf them if that makes you feel better, I don't care I don't play my sorcerer anymore in pvp. Edited August 20, 2016 by Ethern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Just going to leave this here. If you want to nerf sorcerers , nerf juggernauts hard too. http://imgur.com/a/hn2og Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greezt Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Personally I'm excited for the 5.0 ability which will allow Sorcs to fly. Any sin and op knows that flying is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimerako Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Even as a pure melee class i think sorcs are fine besides phase walk. That pretty much broke the class. I play all classes and im annoying as hell on a sorc, even when im focused by multiple players. Forcing a hard swap shouldnt be as easy as it is on a sorc. That being said once the bubble pops if im on a burst class like caranage or rage jugg sorcs are toast. The light armor leads to huge crits they cant really heal through. The issue i see when people try to kill me on a sorc is getting close enough to maintain dps. Their time on target is low. Im normally way up in the amount of cds ive been putting out dps on them compared to how much damage ive taken. They finally line up some burst and foolishly stun me giving a 30% damage reduction plus another 15% if i pop a wz stim. I have heals ticking from dots, my own instant self heals...bla bla bla. Removing phase walk would balance it nicely imo. Crits are too high to remove much more without breaking them. I dont care about the three cc breaks. If you cant kill me without cc your an idiot anyway. If your bewildered by moving targets maybe try pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Just going to leave this here. If you want to nerf sorcerers , nerf juggernauts hard too. http://imgur.com/a/hn2og Lol what is that supposed to prove? A jugg did 1 mil overall damage? That is nothing impressive. A person being tunneled and only halfway paying attention can pull that in any given warzone. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Lol what is that supposed to prove? A jugg did 1 mil overall damage? That is nothing impressive. A person being tunneled and only halfway paying attention can pull that in any given warzone. Haha. One warzone is not going to prove anything indeed. That's just a typical warzone that I encounter every day. juggs at the top of the chain food damage wise and survivability wise while offering protection. And all I see are nerf sorcerers threads. I mean yes that makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 One warzone is not going to prove anything indeed. That's just a typical warzone that I encounter every day. juggs at the top of the chain food damage wise and survivability wise while offering protection. And all I see are nerf sorcerers threads. I mean yes that makes sense... where do you play? JM? BC? sorcs are everywhere and are the easiest class to top overall dmg on AND the raw healing numbers are huge too (they actually look more crooked than they are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixenRawR Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 Just going to leave this here. If you want to nerf sorcerers , nerf juggernauts hard too. http://imgur.com/a/hn2og Im sorry but I dont see what you are trying to prove here? All I see is your team got carried by a sorc healer. You were a merc I can see, your damage was extremely subpar for that warzone which means your only excuse is you joined in the 2nd round halfway through. 300k dmg when others got 1 mil. And you only died 3 times but you won and you had superior heals, you should have out dps'd the juggs or at least been within range. It's clear to me you aren't very familiar with pvp or have top notch skill so if you cant manage to get high dps on a merc it means you probably aren't familiar enough with the class or others to really make informed opinions. I agree juggs have way to many dcd's and it is strong, but I don't agree with things you have been saying because you have very limited knowledge from what I can tell on how to play a class or talk about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixenRawR Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 One warzone is not going to prove anything indeed. That's just a typical warzone that I encounter every day. juggs at the top of the chain food damage wise and survivability wise while offering protection. And all I see are nerf sorcerers threads. I mean yes that makes sense... It's possible to top the charts on every class in the game, its just a know how and ability and granted I can always do better on some than others, ranged generally have the advantage imo. Juggs are just a pain and tbh when there are 3+ juggs on a team its really hard to take them down as it is with a GOOD sorc healer backing them up. I wouldn't put juggs at the top of the food chain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Just going to leave this here. If you want to nerf sorcerers , nerf juggernauts hard too. http://imgur.com/a/hn2og Oh god, this guy is on my server. *feels shame* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Im sorry but I dont see what you are trying to prove here? All I see is your team got carried by a sorc healer. You were a merc I can see, your damage was extremely subpar for that warzone which means your only excuse is you joined in the 2nd round halfway through. 300k dmg when others got 1 mil. And you only died 3 times but you won and you had superior heals, you should have out dps'd the juggs or at least been within range. It's clear to me you aren't very familiar with pvp or have top notch skill so if you cant manage to get high dps on a merc it means you probably aren't familiar enough with the class or others to really make informed opinions. I agree juggs have way to many dcd's and it is strong, but I don't agree with things you have been saying because you have very limited knowledge from what I can tell on how to play a class or talk about them. to be fair, that sorc healer had a nice PT guard to. just sayin....show some love for dem tanks. dey da real heroes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 to be fair, that sorc healer had a nice PT guard to. just sayin....show some love for dem tanks. dey da real heroes! I know I will sound somewhat like Cretinus 😱...the shame....but I'm tired of all the healers and tanks for the past year + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I know I will sound somewhat like Cretinus 😱...the shame....but I'm tired of all the healers and tanks for the past year + saaaaaaaaaaame, I immediately roll my eyes when I see someone queuing as a tank/heal duo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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