Can SWTOR ever recover from the abyss of bad reviews

[DarthMaulUK]

Memories....

 

Thanks for stepping in and highlighting those facts.

 

Now to be totally honest here, EA was most unpleased when they realised it would take at least one more year of development to publish the game in a decent enough state. So yes they had to cut and it was made with a chainsaw.

 

 

 

As with too many video games, and especially MMOs, they lost too much time in the starting of the project and then getting too big regarding their experience in the matter. So you can blame EA as much as you want though it's BioWare managers who initially failed.

 

Behind the scenes of Star Wars: The Old Republic: throwing people at the problem

No problem.

I followed development of this game closely - attended closed door hands on events and more, as I had a very close relationship with LucasArts. Their vision of the final game was exciting and yes, developers have one idea and PR/Marketing have another. That's the nature of the gaming industry but when both are synced heading toward the same goal, I knew that SWTOR was going offer something different.

 

Everyone is saying how surprised they are that the game has lasted 5 years but when you buy a 10 year licence, you have to see that out, no matter how much pain you suffer, or pay an exit fee, which would be hugely damaging to both brands - so I imagine that 'exit' fee would be substantial.

 

But SWTOR is heading to that 10 year mark soon, (10 years includes development time) and given just how bad 2016 has been I will be surprised if they extend it, unless that is tied into the EA contract for bringing us below average SW games for a decade.

[Rolodome]

No problem.

I followed development of this game closely - attended closed door hands on events and more, as I had a very close relationship with LucasArts. Their vision of the final game was exciting and yes, developers have one idea and PR/Marketing have another. That's the nature of the gaming industry but when both are synced heading toward the same goal, I knew that SWTOR was going offer something different.

 

Everyone is saying how surprised they are that the game has lasted 5 years but when you buy a 10 year licence, you have to see that out, no matter how much pain you suffer, or pay an exit fee, which would be hugely damaging to both brands - so I imagine that 'exit' fee would be substantial.

 

But SWTOR is heading to that 10 year mark soon, (10 years includes development time) and given just how bad 2016 has been I will be surprised if they extend it, unless that is tied into the EA contract for bringing us below average SW games for a decade.

Whatever license they made at the beginning, it would seem is different now:

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-20-eas-star-wars-game-deal-lasts-a-decade

That "multi-year" Star Wars game deal EA signed with Disney in fact lasts a decade, EA has revealed.

Unless you're talking about some kind of license specific to the relationship between BW and EA? Then I don't know.

 

But it would seem SWTOR's future is more contingent on EA calling it profitable than anything else. If they decide they want to take it down and pave the way for some other title, I'm not sure BW can do anything about it. EA is the one who has the contract with Disney, so they'd have the power, I would think, and that contract currently goes to 2023 for SW games.

[DenariusJay]

Uh oh, thread is gonna devolve into analyzing the games financial viability... /que debates over quarterly earnings and the profitably of SWTOR :cool:

 

FFXIV is a fantastic game. It plays and runs so smoothly, its one of the most polished MMO's I've ever played. It also has the console community and cross sever ques, which helps keep the population on each server healthy (BW take hint?).

 

Unfortunately its JRPG and that's not totally my thing... but the game itself is awesome and I wish BW had the same passion as Yoshi Dev Team to give this game the same treatment. I mean there game oozes "we want this to be awesome for our players/fans" while SWTOR oozes "give us money, give us money, can i have monies naow??? U buy coins, buy coins now! "

 

/sigh. So much potential, its one of the frustrating things about MMO's.. when you see the potential, but the resources and heart just isn't there.

Edited August 18, 2016 by DenariusJay

[YlliyaXor]

To be honest, I'm not really going to believe anything EA says. They are listed as one of the worse companies in history.

 

In front of BP or citibank, who cares about the environment or your house and lifesavings when The Sims launch is a mess?

[DarthMaulUK]

Whatever license they made at the beginning, it would seem is different now:

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-20-eas-star-wars-game-deal-lasts-a-decade

 

Unless you're talking about some kind of license specific to the relationship between BW and EA? Then I don't know.

 

But it would seem SWTOR's future is more contingent on EA calling it profitable than anything else. If they decide they want to take it down and pave the way for some other title, I'm not sure BW can do anything about it. EA is the one who has the contract with Disney, so they'd have the power, I would think, and that contract currently goes to 2023 for SW games.

 

What I am saying is, that the original licence was between LucasArts & Bioware pre-take over. EA stepped in, purchased Bioware and naturally took over all their IPs and licence deals. EAs new deal would depend if they included SWTOR or not.

 

Personally I doubt it SWTOR is in that new 10 year deal for SW games, given the history and just how bad 2016 has been for the game and given that Bioware were handed a huge budget from the EA 'Star Wars Battle chest' to fund these ridiculous chapter updates and promote the game during the SW: TFA hype.

 

When SOE licence was running out for SWG, they renewed every couple of years until EA demanded it be shut down prior to SWTOR going live - so although SOE wanted to renew the licence, LucasArts said 'no'. This was all pre-Disney too!

[DarthMaulUK]

I wish BW had the same passion as Yoshi Dev Team to give this game the same treatment. I mean there game oozes "we want this to be awesome for our players/fans" while SWTOR oozes "give us money, give us money, can i have monies naow??? U buy coins, buy coins now! "

 

/sigh. So much potential, its one of the frustrating things about MMO's.. when you see the potential, but the resources and heart just isn't there.

 

Which sums up how the majority of players feel about this game. I simply can't understand their design & decision making process outside of 'what can we make cartel coins from'? discussion.

[Bruticis]

Which sums up how the majority of players feel about this game.

 

No it doesn't.

[TUXs]

No it doesn't.

Proof?

[peter_plankskull]

Proof?

 

Best not to reason with it TUX, all it does is use straw man arguments mixed in with a bunch of smuggy insults.

[Bruticis]

Proof?

 

Why do I need to provide proof in response to someone's misguided and incorrect opinion? Have the poster I was responding to provide proof, he made the claim.

[TUXs]

Why do I need to provide proof in response to someone's misguided and incorrect opinion? Have the poster I was responding to provide proof, he made the claim.

He makes a claim, you make a claim. You ask him for his proof, yet you refuse to give your own proof? Typical lol.

[sithlordschmidt]

He makes a claim, you make a claim. You ask him for his proof, yet you refuse to give your own proof? Typical lol.

 

Sorry Tux, I have to agree with him on this one. The burden of proof is on the person making the original claim. Once that original claim wasn't backed up with anything to support it, calling BS on it is fully justified.

[peter_plankskull]

Sorry Tux, I have to agree with him on this one. The burden of proof is on the person making the original claim. Once that original claim wasn't backed up with anything to support it, calling BS on it is fully justified.

 

They should BOTH be bringing proof to back up their claim, or else its just a their word against another's which is meaningless and gets no where.

[Rolodome]

Sorry Tux, I have to agree with him on this one. The burden of proof is on the person making the original claim. Once that original claim wasn't backed up with anything to support it, calling BS on it is fully justified.

If we're going to be pedantic about it, you're partially right. There's nothing wrong with calling BS on a claim that didn't have proof behind it. On the other side, Bruticis made a counter claim without proof, "No it doesn't," so both sides can have the burden of proof called on them in equal measure.

 

Him saying, "No it doesn't sum up how the majority feels" is different from saying, "You need to provide proof for your claim."

 

EDIT: Ninja'd. Tux beat me to it.

 

EDIT 2: Ahem, peter_plainskull beat me to it. Damn lookalike avatars.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Rolodome

[Tsetso]

They should BOTH be bringing proof to back up their claim, or else its just a their word against another's which is meaningless and gets no where.

 

In this case the only one that can prove anything is BW/EA

[sithlordschmidt]

They should BOTH be bringing proof to back up their claim, or else its just a their word against another's which is meaningless and gets no where.

 

I can agree with that. I guess I just read "No it doesn't" as more of a generic refusal to accept the unproven original claim, but you're right they both should have provided some evidence or been more careful with their language.

[t-darko]

I do take any stuff being left . . . bet you guys, when it comes, the end that is, we'll be the first to know . . . just now give thanks to the guys buying the next hypercrate, whom ever that is!?

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Has anyone seen a game rise back from bad reviews? I was looking at some games that had hype and then fell into the abyss of bad reviews, and I have not seen them recover....ever.

 

No matter what they do to make the game better, that game ist still stuck in the bad reviews.

 

I'm starting to think no matter how much money they could dump in SWTOR, that in the beginning, they already doomed their fate.

 

Am I wrong? What would it take for SWTOR to rise back up? More promotional work by Disney/EA etc etc all involved?

 

Not bashing FYI. I'm kind of concerned and wondering what it would take to turn it around.

 

Thanks to all that reply!

 

May the force be with you!

 

Oh look! A thread from early 2012!

[peter_plankskull]

Oh look! A thread from early 2012!

 

Didn't they have to shortly convert to f2p after launch since the game was actually in trouble at that time?

[Jeweledleah]

Oh look! A thread from early 2012!

 

/checks the date.. thread was made 2 days ago, so not a necro. or do you mean in content?

 

and well... on one hand it does sound a bit like dejavu, except the game hasn't quite recovered if one were to judge by amount of paid marketing its getting, or for that matter content updates that are not cartel market fluff.

 

which in a way is what makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. a game CAN recover from bad reviews. Destiny did. (Final Fantasy was also mentioned, but as they literally redid the game from scratch its not quite the same) Elder scrolls online is doing very well. The secret world might not be flashy, but its doing VERY well as well.

 

the problem with TOR is that it continues to get bad reviews and continues to flounder, becasue instead of being improved, its actualy getting worse. for every step forward they take, they also take two steps back.

 

in order for SWTOR to recover - they would have to invest resources into creating exceptional content. better story, better companion interactions, more timely additions of group content, etc etc.

 

I was playing through KOTFE on my LvD trooper and realized... I'm really not enjoying this. I'm not enjoying this particular story, while occasionally there are some nuggets of fun and cool in interactions, mostly - its ... not great at all. and this is a first for me when it comes to both story game and bioware games. I KNOW I'm not the only feeling discontent, because I've seen other people express similar sentiments.

 

in order for swtor to get better reviews? it needs to BE better. not just claim to have improve - ACTUALLY improve, significantly so

[lilathrone]

Bioware literally sells hotbars to their players. They deserve every bad review they've ever gotten for pullin **** like that at every corner. I've played hundreds of sketchy F2P MMORPGs and I've never seen such a money-grubbing F2P model. I'd like to add that this is coming from someone who lives a very comfortable life so money is not the issue...its the quality of the product that has me concerned.

 

I can't even GET my friends to try another MMORPG because they assume its going to be another shill fest like SWTOR was.

 

Focus more on making a fun game than your bottom line, then maybe they'll earn some solid reviews. But lets be honest, that will NEVER happen.

 

Omg you re so clever please go on please we totally care for you please share us

How you despise the game despite you are a subscriber we so care please tell Us

[DarthMaulUK]

No it doesn't.

 

Yeah, I guess the empty servers aren't proof enough. And I said the 'majority' of players. You sir, are in the minority.

Edited August 18, 2016 by DarthMaulUK

[Deewe]

I tend to agreee with TUXs and DarthMaulUK here.

 

For the record (contrary to most here) both of them have been on the forums way before the launch of the game and as them, I was there too Day 1.

 

So when they say servers aren't that busy you can trust them, especially since they have been merged and as such we should see dozens, if not more, of fleet instances. Then it's that obvious BioWare is selling reskinned meshes and hotbars, not content.

[Andryah]

So when they say servers aren't that busy you can trust them.

 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. That said, sorry, it's imprudent to ever trust bias presented as fact. Which is exactly what drops from the two players you reference, more often then not. But since you have an affinity for the same bias as they do, your comment is absolutely no surprise.

 

Are their less players then 9 months ago.. yep.... and I think everyone agrees on that. People disagree as to what that has to do exactly with what came in 4.0 and what will come in 5.0 and what it means for player satisfaction (because not everyone sees things the same way). There was a huge surge when 4.0 released (to the point where they had to increase the capacity of some servers just to avoid queues, as was true in the prior expacs as well. That is the nature of MMOs these days... populations ebb and flow with the coming and going of expac releases. It's why even WoW sees a +/- 50% delta of pre/post expac populations swings.

 

As for server health in SWTOR ... it would be a mistake to take any action until several months after the next expac drops. Otherwise... we will see large server queues when 5.0 drops.. and frankly past history here (since launch) clearly shows that players hate server queues much more then they do lighter server populations.

 

The only servers actually dead right now in North America are those former PvP servers that the likes of TUXs abandoned. Whether those servers (since all servers are a like now days in terms of rule set) ever recover or not.. I think we need to see the next expac run it's course before we know for sure. EU has other complicating factors (language and nationality, along with social bias about SWTOR) as well as players abandoning the old PvP servers.

 

Now, the core issue with server populations is the very nomadic nature of many MMO players these days. And even the chapter based format of 4.0 cannot overcome this completely.

 

And people in this thread declaring this now a single player game is complete hyperbole.. intended to deceive readers as to the state of the game. These players are just bent over there being no new OPs, and limited new FPs and WZ through 4.0, which is a somewhat valid concern. I do agree there needs to be more group content, possibly integrated with the general theme and story of the next expac...... but in reality... we don't have answers on that yet.

 

On topic.... reviews (most of them years old now) .... be they good or bad, have little real impact on the state of a game that is approaching 5 years old.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Andryah

[KnownError]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. That said, sorry, it's imprudent to ever trust bias presented as fact. Which is exactly what drops from the two players you reference, more often then not. But since you have an affinity for the same bias as they do, your comment is absolutely no surprise.

 

Are their less players then 9 months ago.. yep.... and I think everyone agrees on that. People disagree as to what that has to do exactly with what came in 4.0 and what will come in 5.0 and what it means for player satisfaction (because not everyone sees things the same way). There was a huge surge when 4.0 released (to the point where they had to increase the capacity of some servers just to avoid queues, as was true in the prior expacs as well. That is the nature of MMOs these days... populations ebb and flow with the coming and going of expac releases. It's why even WoW sees a +/- 50% delta of pre/post expac populations swings.

 

As for server health in SWTOR ... it would be a mistake to take any action until several months after the next expac drops. Otherwise... we will see large server queues when 5.0 drops.. and frankly past history here (since launch) clearly shows that players hate server queues much more then they do lighter server populations.

 

The only servers actually dead right now in North America are those former PvP servers that the likes of TUXs abandoned. Whether those servers (since all servers are a like now days in terms of rule set) ever recover or not.. I think we need to see the next expac run it's course before we know for sure. EU has other complicating factors (language and nationality, along with social bias about SWTOR) as well as players abandoning the old PvP servers.

 

Now, the core issue with server populations is the very nomadic nature of many MMO players these days. And even the chapter based format of 4.0 cannot overcome this completely.

 

And people in this thread declaring this now a single player game is complete hyperbole.. intended to deceive readers as to the state of the game. These players are just bent over there being no new OPs, and limited new FPs and WZ through 4.0, which is a somewhat valid concern. I do agree there needs to be more group content, possibly integrated with the general theme and story of the next expac...... but in reality... we don't have answers on that yet.

 

On topic.... reviews (most of them years old now) .... be they good or bad, have little real impact on the state of a game that is approaching 5 years old.

 

I really enjoyed this post.