Thank you BioWare for the best expansion yet.

[Aowin]

Except the RoTHC story was still better than KoTFE, and more sensible. Not particularly great mind you, but still better. KoTFE is all "Plot Armor" this, "McGuffin" that, and lets throw in some "Deus Ex Machina!"

 

Mind you, that's when the story is even progressing. If you want to talk about side adventures that did little to move the story, that was half of the KoTFE chapters!

 

That should have been quite obvious though when they went with the ol' "Lol, it's been 5 years and the world around you has changed!" That's right up there with lost memory for a story starter. ( Sort of the same. You can say you lost memory of the last 5 years. )

 

The problem with this argument is the story is not done... We knew before KotFE even released that it wouldn't cover the entire story. Which is why it's silly to argue "choices don't matter" and that the story is "linear" because KotFE was the introduction to the characters and the setting. I expect KotET will have a lot more consequences and that it will be a lot less linear in execution. If you notice, every time you make a major decision with a character, there is a note of that decision with the character and whether they agreed with your choice or not.

 

As far as the five year jump and not being present for it, BioWare wanted to leave behind the baggage that had been created over the years. This was a way to start fresh with the game and try to make a compelling story that was applicable to each class. I agree that many of the chapters after chapter IX were filler and not really needed. I'm hoping KotET will have a lot less filler and focus on elements that move the story forward.

 

My point is KotFE was a good foundation and there is plenty of room for BioWare to improve. Again, it's hard to judge a story when it's far from done. But so far, I've enjoyed KotFE far more than I ever did RotHC, SoR, or any of the various updates or QoL upgrades that brought very little if anything meaningful to the game. I want a bit more of an explanation of how a few hours with Satele Shan and Darth Marr has turned the Outlander into an unstoppable killing machine, but I'm willing to give BioWare the benefit of the doubt that they will fully explain these major, key moments..

[Dragondog]

I like story. I don't mind the episodic feel the chapters gave us. But KotFE is boring. It's the worst expansion so far. Makeb was better, but I don't play it anymore as there is much more interesting content to play. Unfortunately it seems that KotET will follow KotFE and that you have to play the one before you play the other.

[Suzsi]

I have very much enjoyed playing through KoTFE and I am very much looking forward to more!

 

It has been fun experiencing the story being released in chapters. The feel of building up an alliance that has achieved so much. Speculating and at times even fearing what might come next. The companion reunions so far have been enjoyable ( Aric's was by far the best and most heartfelt out of the female romance companions returned so far ).

 

Keep it up! Just please remember that locking in a romance shouldn't mean the end of flirting ( Theron's has been pretty quiet for too long! )

[peter_plankskull]

RIP... spent 45 minutes on that one post... don't dodge it please .

[ryniloym]

I thought it was really good. I felt epic during most of the chapters. 13 was the only one i wasn't crazy about.

[VegasTheLost]

BioWare Storytelling.

 

I can safely say that when I will see this somewhere on a game or whatever in the future, I will stay the f*@k out far far away from it. BW embarrassed themselves with KotFE and they are nowhere near their storytelling roots. Frankly in this game they were never even close. And they topped it with KotFE.

 

A promising Star Wars game is ruined, thank you BioWare(yeah actually it was always just promising, never fullfilled....).

[SerraShar]

I can safely say that when I will see this somewhere on a game or whatever in the future, I will stay the f*@k out far far away from it. BW embarrassed themselves with KotFE and they are nowhere near their storytelling roots. Frankly in this game they were never even close. And they topped it with KotFE.

 

A promising Star Wars game is ruined, thank you BioWare(yeah actually it was always just promising, never fullfilled....).

 

I dunno why anyone could say this anything like BW work . If anything , it's FAR FAR FREAKING FAR From Anything that BW did in the Past .

 

If anyone tell me this is the best story telling , I doubt they played anything from BW . and if they did...then I will assume they take anything..even Poop..as long as it has BW logo .

[JattaGin]

While I did definitely enjoy this expansion, one can surely not claim that this is outstanding storytelling. No twists, nothing. Everything foreseeable. Choices that matter? And a horrible, devastating ending.

 

I do enjoy the focus on single-player story-driven updates as I am no MMOer. However, after this ending, my rating of KotFE would be a 4 (on a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being best). It would be a 7 with a satisfying ending. But this ending is just unacceptable in every way.

 

I wonder how chapter 16 was before they decided to delay it and make it more worthy for the players. I cannot even imagine.

[lilathrone]

Though there are some things that came with 4.0 that I don't like, overall I'm very satisfied with KOTFE, it's as close to Kotor quality as it can get, thank you for everyone who worked on this project and keep up the good work!

 

What BW can really improve on IMO:

-Enjoyable boss fights with good mechanics (Arcann fight was really good imo)

-Focus on main plot rather than recruitment missions (chp 10,11, 13 for example was really just recruitment and didn't advance the plot in much way)

-Add group content, flashpoints and operation(s), these will keep players occupied between chapters. Make them tied to the story.

[Icestar]

I really liked this expansion.

 

It will be very fun to play season II, the new expansion.

[Halinalle]

Yes...thank you for destroying guilds, servers and entire communities with KOTFE. MMOs had become too social for some folk...solo play is where it's at.

 

Very strange things have happened:

- ops geared players who would rather use healer companion in TFP after someone gets kicked or ragequits

- ops geared players who play their class wrong

 

Especially the first one is very weird because most of the tacticals can be soloed. I've already done HS on Combat Sentinel, Athiss on Gunnery Commando and False Emperor on Carnage/Annihilation Marauder without issues apart from Malgus glitching out.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Halinalle

[xThunderstorm]

I haven't read all the posts here, actually, post of OP and that's it

But I just wanted to express my opninion on KotFE and as you all probably expect: I love it.

I'm very curious to KotET, I really hope they keep the chapter system, I'd rather have one big mission with the chapter title as the name, rather than a lot of mission names under a HUGE chapter (like the original class stories: 3 chapters, each chapter with a lot of different missions). It really helps to see the "structure" of the story.

[DarthSpuds]

The story had the potential to be amazing - all of it squandered in the desire for a Morality Monorail experience where only 1% of out choices actually mattered a damn.

 

My Sage would NEVER have allied with the Scions - he would rather have fought his way out of there killing every last one of them and would have exiled/imprisoned Senya for leading him into the trap in the first place.

 

My Jugg would NEVER have saved the refugees in the swamp, and would have killed Jorgen for trying to force him to do so.

 

For there to be meaningful story based choices there has to be more than one route between the Start Point and the End Point of each chapter, and in KotFE there simply wasn't more than one path... ...ever.

 

All through KotFE there is a choice of dialogue - but ALL dialogue options at a given point lead to EXACTLY the same outcome.

 

With the exception of one:

 

If we allowed the generator on Zakuul to explode Koth subsequently tries to steal the Gravestone and Lana informs us that we have not seen the last of Koth. So we have been informed Koth will not let things lay as they are, and we know he tried to steal the Gravestone and for some reason we a) didn't post guards, b) didn't change access codes that Koth already knew c) didn't task Lana and/or Theron (Intelligence and Espionage specialists by the way) to hire people to keep tabs on what Koth was doing.

 

Talk about basic storytelling 101 errors.

 

Shockingly amateurish writing.

 

 

All The Best

[TUXs]

Maybe its just me, but honestly, that description can fit KOTFE just as well as it did ROTHC. Only like...six... choices mattered... and that's including ones as minor as a different dialogue.

Did they though? Did ANY choices you make actually matter in any way?

 

Aside from triggering a pre-scripted dialog, did anything players do actually change the story at all? Or did we all get exactly the same story, despite our choices? Who was able to kill Arcann? Anyone? Who died? Anyone? Who failed? Who cares if Koth stole the ship or not, it doesn't matter if he did or didn't because it's a story prop only...it's not something we have access to that someone else doesn't. The story and the ending was identical for everyone.

 

That being said...I enjoyed the ending. I thought it was a great finish to the story, so kudos to the writers. I just hate that the most iconic feeling location in-game, Arcann's ship, was a once and done location...it's such a tremendous waste. ALL of KOTFE was a waste since nothing is repeatable...which is the HUGE flaw of KOTFE...nothing is repeatable...NOTHING! One year later and they've added nothing of value to the game...they simply extended the leveling process for new players.

[Nigredo]

"Meh"

[KyaniteD]

I don't agree. For me, the overall best expansion+game update was RotHC+2.x.

 

RotHC/2.x >> SoR/3.x > KotFE/4.x

 

I'm not a fan of the game being changed to an interactive graphic novel, with everything being simplified and streamlined, removing choices and options on all levels... What I liked about chapter 16 was the movement through the flagship being lined with something resembling puzzles and one or two non-trivial mobs with something like mechanics. That was a nice change compared to just running against waves and waves of standard mobs.

 

RotHC 2.x came with new mini games, side stories, new open areas/planets, new reputation, new ops, new FPs, at least faction-specific story line etc. etc. It felt like an actual expansion.

 

KotFE + 4.x removed, reduced, reused, repeated.

[Aowin]

...

 

I'll respond just because you asked nicely, but I don't generally like walls of text.

 

Again, we can't compare KotFE to RotHC because KotFE is only part of an ongoing story. RotHC is a complete story that resolved any issues that were created. The only reason I'm absolutely certain our choices are going to have a lot of impact in the future is because every time we make a major decision the game takes a note and places that choice in the companion's biography. Even deciding not to shoot Senya down, she remarks she will remember your mercy and that heavily implies consequences further in the story. People are mad we didn't receive any closure in Chapter 16, and maybe that's fair. However, I think folks are jumping the gun to say no closure is going to come at all and we are just playing some linear story with no player agency.

 

How do none of the companions matter? I've felt BioWare did a great job with the main cast and they've done a pretty faithful job with regard to returning class companions. I'd like to see more interaction with these companions, but admittedly there are a lot of characters to juggle and BioWare has a limited budget.

 

Honestly, was anyone surprised Vaylin would become the major villain? It was hinted as early as Chapter 2 that she was different and more deadly than Arcann. Not to mention, she was an instant fan favorite, so I'm certain BioWare would have given her a more predominant role anyway.

 

I'm not exactly sure what your issue is with exploration. What exactly were you looking to explore? Did you just want cookie cutter side quests flooding the world to make it seem like you were experiencing everything? I didn't mind the focus on the storytelling, and honestly smaller environments made pacing faster and flow better. Makeb was just going from one daily zone to the next with one trying to avoid have the trash mobs. Rishi and Yavin weren't any different. I suppose you just prefer running dailies, which is all Yavin 4 was, compared to focusing on the main story.

 

I think you are over-hyping how great some of the class stories were. Some were great, like Jedi Knight, Sith Inquisitior, and Smuggler. Others were horrible, like Trooper and Jedi Consular. Then the rest were just decent. I don't think any of the classes were mind-blowing and certainly don't rival the storytelling in the KotOR games or the Mass Effect trilogy. I'm also not sure why you believe there are "3 endings" to the class stories when they all end the same way. Jedi Knight becomes a general in the Jedi Order. Jedi Consular becomes a member of the Jedi Council. Trooper becomes a major. Smuggler becomes the voidhound. Rinse and repeat on the imp side.

 

RotHC did not add any raids, beside one raid boss on Makeb. I don't remember any flashpoints on Makeb or about Makeb. GSF and Strongholds were not part of RotHC. Those two were separate digital expansions that came much later. The issue here is you are attributing more credit than RotHC deserves. Everything you are referring to is content updates that happened after RotHC, but for some odd reason you are attributing those updates to RotHC.

 

KotFE actually has everything I've stated, and one reason it's different is because the expansion is ongoing for once. RotHC and SoR just released once and were done.

 

Is there something wrong with taking cues from Mass Effect and Dragon Age? BioWare did make those games and most of them have excellent storytelling. None of SWTOR's storytelling (even most of the classes) were not on the level of quality that we've seen in BioWare's single player RPGs. From my perspective, it's smart to take cues from your success in order to do something better. You can call that a "cash grab" if you will, but that's not the same as what happened in SoR which was literally all about KotOR 1 because BioWare was lazy and wanted to make easy money off a beloved game.

 

In your opinion KotFE isn't repeatable. On the contrary, it's repeatable at least twice for me. Just to see the differences between a light and dark path has changed elements of the story. There is zero replay value in RotHC. I hated it the first time and I have never done that story again. I hate Makeb and it's beyond boring. I have never heard anyone saying they enjoy RotHC's story, so you'd be the first. SoR is a little better, but the story is bogged down by pointless fetch quests on Rishi and having to run a ridiculous amount of dailies on Yavin 4 just to get to the final boss fight. I don't see how any of those are better or offer more replay value than KotFE, but to each his own.

 

Again, GSF is a separate expansion from RotHC. I don't even like GSF as it pales in comparison to JTL, a far superior space expansion in a far better Star Wars MMO. Strongholds aren't much better as it is one of the worst player housing systems I have ever seen in an MMO. It is so limiting and restricted that you can't really decorate at all. It's less decorating your house and more so creating a pre-determined museum.

 

Not every beat of the story was interesting and fascinating, but I've enjoyed most of it compared to being bored with RotHC and just wanting SoR to end sooner rather than later as BioWare butchered my favorite Star Wars character of all time.

 

The issue here is you are attributing a whole year as being part of RotHC. That's not how game development works and BioWare does not see it that way. RotHC was a standalone paid expansion. All it did was add some story, a new planet, increase the level cap, added some new dailies, and we got an arena based off the locale as well as a raid boss. That was RotHC. Anything after that is not part of the expansion, so yes KofFE is much larger than RotHC.

 

My point is I've enjoyed KotFE far more than I ever enjoyed RotHC or SoR. After launch this game lost its strongest element: BioWare storytelling. Not all of the class stories were great, but most of them were at least good. We lost that level of storytelling as BioWare focused their efforts on adding as much "endgame" content as they could, such as ops, fps, wzs, and just other random features such as QoL. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy raiding and PvP is my favorite thing to do in an MMO, but what SWTOR does best is its storytelling. Everything else in this MMO is pretty mediocre by MMO standards. In fact, raiding was far more complex and ambitious in SWG compared to SWTOR, and that MMO shut down five years ago.

 

I don't believe KotFE is perfect. I just think it's a great foundation for BioWare to build upon for future expansions. I'm hopeful KotET will see a lot of improvement and everybody will get the kind of BioWare storytelling they've been craving for. Again, BioWare storytelling should be the focus of this game. Raid content and new PvP zones are fine and dandy, but that content expires quickly (especially raids) and more folks will enjoy the storytelling anyway as progression raiding is a niche.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Aowin

[Rhysling]

Profit and Plunder was one of my favorites. I am looking forward to the new set of Chapters now.

[DarthSpuds]

I'm not exactly sure what your issue is with exploration. What exactly were you looking to explore? Did you just want cookie cutter side quests flooding the world to make it seem like you were experiencing everything?.

 

How about some well thought out, integrated, and well written side quests to make the the rest of the world feel more alive than it currently does.

 

It's called immersion and KotFE is as lacking in Immersion as it is in real choice - which is to say there's actually none of either.

 

How about a quest tracking down a potential leak on Odessen, or securing a vital water source; have the quest a) unlock based on rep with the Alliance Specialists and have the specifics of the quest depended on other choices. If we miffed off Koth maybe have one of his closest allies be a potential leak, maybe we killed someone on Zakuul collaterally and their family have hired Bounty Hunters.

 

There are literally hundreds of "exploration" mini-quests that could have been added to Zakuul and Odessen that would have a) made both planets seem a little less one-dimensional and b) acted as time filler. Have them reward the Alliance crates and we have a less repetitive grind to obtaining level 20 rep with the Alliance Specialists. Think of all the mails we get from different people on Odessen with "follow up fluff" from our actions in the Main Storyline. Why not have some of them trigger optional quests.

 

Most players are complaining about two major issues in relation to KofFE - there's very little replayability and our choices don't matter. Well maybe both of those could be addressed by adding a few side and / or exploration quests.

 

All The Best

[DarthSpuds]

Profit and Plunder was one of my favorites. I am looking forward to the new set of Chapters now.

 

One of my favourites too - but it makes very little sense from a light side Jedi/Sith point of view.

 

Same as the weapon forging quest makes no sense for non force users - maybe the non force users should have had a "retrieve experimental weapon" type chapter in place of that one.

 

Ok so maybe its not possible to have 8 unique storylines running through KotFE/KotET - but will a little thought it may be possible to have one or two chapters play very differently depending on faction and class.

 

And this would of course increase replayability - which is something KotFE is almost devoid of.

 

All The Best

[gabigool]

You do realize the main reason anybody even got this game at launch was for the eight class stories? Right? There was literally no endgame when SWTOR released. Operations were broken. Ilum World PvP was a slideshow. The only thing that everybody unanimously agreed on that was great were the class stories.

 

Now, perhaps you are one of the few who doesn't care about story at all. However, I think you are foolish for believing folks who play a BioWare MMO would not want BioWare storytelling in it, especially when the base game at launch was all about BioWare storytelling.

 

Why do you think this?

 

And I'm not talking about the part where you call me foolish for believing people would not want "BW storytelling" in a BW MMO - since I clearly said nothing of the sort. I'm talking about the rest of your reply. It literally makes no sense.

 

Let's just say you are correct, that the majority of people purchased this game for the eight class stories.

 

(Personally, I disagree. I believe a significant number of people also liked the idea of playing a Star Wars MMO. Regardless, I'm not pretending to know)

 

How do you explain the mass exodus during the first 6 months? The first year? This game hemorrhaged players during its first 12 months.

 

The things you point out - inadequate, broken Operations, ridiculously broken world PvP - seems to me these are the reasons people quit.

 

If the only "not broken" thing about the game was the class stories, and the majority of players were here for those stories, why did a million people quit?

 

Makes.

 

No.

 

Sense.

[TUXs]

Why do you think this?

 

And I'm not talking about the part where you call me foolish for believing people would not want "BW storytelling" in a BW MMO - since I clearly said nothing of the sort. I'm talking about the rest of your reply. It literally makes no sense.

 

Let's just say you are correct, that the majority of people purchased this game for the eight class stories.

 

(Personally, I disagree. I believe a significant number of people also liked the idea of playing a Star Wars MMO. Regardless, I'm not pretending to know)

 

How do you explain the mass exodus during the first 6 months? The first year? This game hemorrhaged players during its first 12 months.

 

The things you point out - inadequate, broken Operations, ridiculously broken world PvP - seems to me these are the reasons people quit.

 

If the only "not broken" thing about the game was the class stories, and the majority of players were here for those stories, why did a million people quit?

 

Makes.

 

No.

 

Sense.

You have the patience of a saint gabi.

[gabigool]

You have the patience of a saint gabi.

 

Bro, you have no idea how much these people make my head hurt. I try to imagine them doing simple things like using spoons and the like and I shudder.

[casirabit]

[Aowin;9022814]

How do none of the companions matter? I've felt BioWare did a great job with the main cast and they've done a pretty faithful job with regard to returning class companions. I'd like to see more interaction with these companions, but admittedly there are a lot of characters to juggle and BioWare has a limited budget.

 

Simple, if they actually matter then our choices should been honored. Why in the world would my sage take the sorcerer's companion or any of them on the darkside. Working with them is one thing being a companion is totally a different issue. We should been able to refuse them (other than the two we could kill) if we felt they didn't work with our character, but that wasn't possible. BW said you are taking them period. That is not our choices matter, it is their choices matter.

 

 

I'm not exactly sure what your issue is with exploration. What exactly were you looking to explore? Did you just want cookie cutter side quests flooding the world to make it seem like you were experiencing everything? I didn't mind the focus on the storytelling, and honestly smaller environments made pacing faster and flow better. Makeb was just going from one daily zone to the next with one trying to avoid have the trash mobs. Rishi and Yavin weren't any different. I suppose you just prefer running dailies, which is all Yavin 4 was, compared to focusing on the main story.

 

Actually some of us like to explore and do the "cookie cutter side quests" but there was none was there which also took away from people being able to do things together, which is another issue. Rishi, Yavin, Makeb had things people could do together and Makeb had all the missions able to do together instead of separate. So yes some of us would have prefer the "cookie cutter side quests" so we could have done it together. I get it you are a solo player but not all are.

 

I think you are over-hyping how great some of the class stories were. Some were great, like Jedi Knight, Sith Inquisitior, and Smuggler. Others were horrible, like Trooper and Jedi Consular. Then the rest were just decent. I don't think any of the classes were mind-blowing and certainly don't rival the storytelling in the KotOR games or the Mass Effect trilogy. I'm also not sure why you believe there are "3 endings" to the class stories when they all end the same way. Jedi Knight becomes a general in the Jedi Order. Jedi Consular becomes a member of the Jedi Council. Trooper becomes a major. Smuggler becomes the voidhound. Rinse and repeat on the imp side.

 

I have done all the classes and none were horrible in my book. It may be your personal opinion that some they were but again that was your personal opinion and it doesn't reflect the opinions of everyone.

 

 

KotFE actually has everything I've stated, and one reason it's different is because the expansion is ongoing for once. RotHC and SoR just released once and were done.

 

Creating the same story for each class was stupid. My smuggler is not force sensitive and therefore should have never done the chapter with Shan and Marr. That was a stupid chapter for non force sensitive and especially for those that never once bowed nor uses the emperor's power, which my smuggler never did.

 

In your opinion KotFE isn't repeatable. On the contrary, it's repeatable at least twice for me. Just to see the differences between a light and dark path has changed elements of the story. There is zero replay value in RotHC. I hated it the first time and I have never done that story again. I hate Makeb and it's beyond boring. I have never heard anyone saying they enjoy RotHC's story, so you'd be the first. SoR is a little better, but the story is bogged down by pointless fetch quests on Rishi and having to run a ridiculous amount of dailies on Yavin 4 just to get to the final boss fight. I don't see how any of those are better or offer more replay value than KotFE, but to each his own.

 

How many times can you repeat it without getting bored? I have over 8-10 toons and half of them have not finished it because it got boring. Twice maybe but 8 times. What could have changed it was being able to do it with some friends and that could have made it more interesting not knowing what choices they would make..

 

 

My point is I've enjoyed KotFE far more than I ever enjoyed RotHC or SoR. After launch this game lost its strongest element: BioWare storytelling. Not all of the class stories were great, but most of them were at least good. We lost that level of storytelling as BioWare focused their efforts on adding as much "endgame" content as they could, such as ops, fps, wzs, and just other random features such as QoL. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy raiding and PvP is my favorite thing to do in an MMO, but what SWTOR does best is its storytelling. Everything else in this MMO is pretty mediocre by MMO standards. In fact, raiding was far more complex and ambitious in SWG compared to SWTOR, and that MMO shut down five years ago.

 

This is one thing we will agree with is SWG.

 

I don't believe KotFE is perfect. I just think it's a great foundation for BioWare to build upon for future expansions. I'm hopeful KotET will see a lot of improvement and everybody will get the kind of BioWare storytelling they've been craving for. Again, BioWare storytelling should be the focus of this game. Raid content and new PvP zones are fine and dandy, but that content expires quickly (especially raids) and more folks will enjoy the storytelling anyway as progression raiding is a niche.

 

Even stories can get boring as well when you having to do it solo and not share it with people you play with. Any content can get boring, nothing is perfect. As it is a lot of people are already canceling their subs because there is nothing for them to enjoy, even with the announcement of the new expansion.

[casirabit]

Why do you think this?

 

And I'm not talking about the part where you call me foolish for believing people would not want "BW storytelling" in a BW MMO - since I clearly said nothing of the sort. I'm talking about the rest of your reply. It literally makes no sense.

 

Let's just say you are correct, that the majority of people purchased this game for the eight class stories.

 

(Personally, I disagree. I believe a significant number of people also liked the idea of playing a Star Wars MMO. Regardless, I'm not pretending to know).

 

Would it help if I told you our guild came here because it was Star Wars not because of the stories.