Why are jedi masters of SWTOR era so weak compared to Darth's?

[adormitul]

I am of course pointing to jedi masters not knights but masters why do I say this well that is because of their terrible track records among all the jedi master we know in SWTOR only 3 managed to defeat Darth's and this are Satele Shan, Jaric Kaedan and Tol Braga the rest like Orgus Din, Nomen Karr, the Organa jedi master and well all the other jedi masters in the council actually. One of them got their *** kicked by a sith lord a very strong one but a sith lord.

And do not get me that Korriban makes them better sith as jedi have to pass to hell to become knights and well this are masters not knights a even bigger hell to pass to get there.

So why are most of them so weak compared to Darth's with the exception of those 3 and of course the PC's but their abominations in the force.

[ethanredmace]

I am of course pointing to jedi masters not knights but masters why do I say this well that is because of their terrible track records among all the jedi master we know in SWTOR only 3 managed to defeat Darth's and this are Satele Shan, Jaric Kaedan and Tol Braga the rest like Orgus Din, Nomen Karr, the Organa jedi master and well all the other jedi masters in the council actually. One of them got their *** kicked by a sith lord a very strong one but a sith lord.And do not get me that Korriban makes them better sith as jedi have to pass to hell to become knights and well this are masters not knights a even bigger hell to pass to get there.

So why are most of them so weak compared to Darth's with the exception of those 3 and of course the PC's but their abominations in the force.

 

 

 

Jedi Masters of the SWTOR era aren't trained enough compared to Darths because of the Jedi going easy on their students, barely teaching them how to use the force, and etc. They don't have as much raw power in the force, because we all know that the lightside is weaker than the darkside with very few exceptions and etc.

 

PS. I have 1 max level Darth Nox, One almost level 65 Hero Of Tython, 2 Emperor's Wraths/one max level one, and one low level 1-5 Counselor (can't remember exactly which level), so my opinion isn't too biased.

Edited April 5, 2019 by ethanredmace

[adormitul]

Because they are made from broken parts and they were already broken from the start, lol, jk.

 

Jedi Masters of the SWTOR era aren't trained enough compared to Darths because of the Jedi going easy on their students, barely teaching them how to use the force, and etc. They don't have as much raw power in the force, because we all know that the lightside is weaker than the darkside with very few exceptions and etc.

 

As big of a dork I am of Star Wars I never quite understood how they teach the students to use the force. Well like Yoda with the younglings he teaches them to listen to it or something of the sort. In SWTOR one the other hand they did not really teached us anything from what I saw our jedi masters I mean. By the time we became their padawans we where already stronger then them by quite a lot.

But our sith master did not teached us either.

Above I have every single class at level 65 besides smuggler and trooper. So I really am unbiased.

Edited July 31, 2016 by adormitul

[ethanredmace]

As big of a dork I am of Star Wars I never quite understood how they teach the students to use the force. Well like Yoda with the younglings he teaches them to listen to it or something of the sort. In SWTOR one the other hand they did not really teached us anything from what I saw our jedi masters I mean. By the time we became their padawans we where already stronger then them by quite a lot.

But our sith master did not teached us either.

 

You're right, but the Sith Trials were harder in my opinion and also by fact lore-wise, while the Jedi Trials were hard lore-wise, they were not as hard as the Sith Trials. Also in my opinion in SWTOR, the dark-side is thousands of times stronger than the lightside, but there are few exceptions like the Jedi you mentioned in your first post, the Republic Jedi PC's, and maybe a few others.

[fovzwk]

Because fighting ability isn't really a requirement to advance in the jedi order, wheras in Sith hirarchy the only ways to actually advance is to be really good at fighting or really good at stabbing the ones that are better than you in the back while they aren't looking.

[casirabit]

This game is not set up to actually teach Jedi. It is just said they would but they don't actually do as they can't . An NPC cannot actually teach a player. Yes it would be interesting but not in a game of this type.

 

The only game I saw this ever happen was in SWG because that was player run but then again there could be problems as it would depend on each person's view of lore and how they handled it. That game was different as it could.

 

So if you looking for a game that is set up this way to actually teach you anything wrong type of game.

[Elisaie]

Well honestly I can't remember era where Jedi Masters were more powerfull or as powerfull as Darth's.In modern SW era is same.Some say it's because Darth Bane's rule of apprentice and master but even before that Darth's were more powerfull, now they are much more powerfull.

[SerraShar]

well as far as I can recall , I think Kotor 1 was the only one with a bit of teaching innit . The sith academy back then had computer with exams and all .

 

But that's about it .

 

It's truly a shame though . Would have been nice .

[Rhyltran]

Honestly this is the difference between Jedi and Sith. I forgot who but a Sith said it best. I think it might have been Baras. A darth is death. In sith rank is entirely held by how good one is at killing their enemies. A darth is someone who is fully capable of killing anyone who stands in their way. Whereas a Jedi Master is one who has trained a student or multiple students to the rank of Jedi Knight. A jedi advances based on how good they are with other people, how much in control of themselves they are, and knowledge of the force (not necessarily power.) A good example?

 

Anakin due to his rash, reckless, and violent behavior could not make it to the "Jedi master" position but he's one of the strongest members of the entire Jedi Order. In the Jedi's history there are quite a few Knights who are "more dangerous" combatants than many of the Jedi Masters. If you're facing a Sith you know the "apprentice" is most likely weaker than a lord who in turn is below a Darth. It's not so clear cut amongst the Jedi. That knight you're facing very well be more dangerous than some of the jedi council.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Rhyltran

[BipolarJuice]

Two different styles of advancement.

 

Sith advance by being better than one another; you want to be a Darth? Kill one of the existing ones or blackmail the Dark Council into making you one, sith philosophy doesn't factor in. The Jedi advance you based on your adherence to the jedi philosophy; to be a master you must be an ideal jedi, not a master of the force.

 

Also I figure there are ultimately more Jedi then Sith running around because the Sith are forced to weed out the weak in their number, whereas the Jedi don't believe in that.

[dcaleb]

Honestly this is the difference between Jedi and Sith. I forgot who but a Sith said it best. I think it might have been Baras. A darth is death. In sith rank is entirely held by how good one is at killing their enemies. A darth is someone who is fully capable of killing anyone who stands in their way. Whereas a Jedi Master is one who has trained a student or multiple students to the rank of Jedi Knight. A jedi advances based on how good they are with other people, how much in control of themselves they are, and knowledge of the force (not necessarily power.) A good example?

 

Anakin due to his rash, reckless, and violent behavior could not make it to the "Jedi master" position but he's one of the strongest members of the entire Jedi Order. In the Jedi's history there are quite a few Knights who are "more dangerous" combatants than many of the Jedi Masters. If you're facing a Sith you know the "apprentice" is most likely weaker than a lord who in turn is below a Darth. It's not so clear cut amongst the Jedi. That knight you're facing very well be more dangerous than some of the jedi council.

 

 

 

This, combat ability is focused way more on in the Sith promotion system then it is in the jedi one.

[JLazarillo]

Aren't Kaedan and Braga the only Council Masters the player has fought thus far? Well, Bakarn too, but technically he wasn't using his Jedi training in that fight so I'm not sure it counts.

 

On the other hand, I can name at least 7 Dark Council members who have been taken down the players. Doesn't that imply that the Darths are the weaker ones?

[jauvtus]

First of all: the Light Side is NOT weaker than the Dark Side. The most devastating Force attacks are Light Side or shared: Force Choke (contrary to popular belief, this is NOT a Dark Side attack), Electric Judgement (which is the exact same as Force Lightning, only the light version), Sever Force and Wall of Light (which simply cuts dark siders off the Force, so they no longer can do anything...). It's just that Jedi either forget about techniques (but Sith also do that) or they don't want to be too extreme. But actually if the most powerful Light Side forces clashed with the most powerful Dark Side one, the Dark Side couldn't even do anything, since the Wall of Light simply made the Light Siders immune to all attacks and when fully unleashed, cut their opponents off the Force, making them basically like non-Force Sensitives.

Second: Someone said the PC's aren't trained in TOR. That's not true, we all arrive on Tython and Korriban with basic knowledge, arriving in the Temple or the Academy is simply the next step in our journey. They don't need to train us how to levitate something, use lightning or such, because training doesn't start there (think of Guss Tuno: he was a Padawan (a bad one), but he never was on Tython).

As for the Master vs. Darth: Darths are stronger. Not because the Dark Side, but because 90% of them had to kill someone stronger to earn that title (very few get it free - see Darth Zash), while to get the Master title, all you need to do is finish a Padawan's training to become a Knight. But there are alternate ways: the lamest one I know is one of the PCs:

The Jedi need a diplomat to negotiate with the Rift Alliance. They thought of the Consular, but that Jedi diplomat must be a Master. So they give you the title. While the Knight doesn't get it when his/her padawan becomes a Knight, but needs to defeat the most powerful Dark Side user to earn that title. Completely fair.

 

So I must agree with the posters above: being a Jedi Master doesn't necessarily mean you are one of the best in the Order, or even a great duelist. Jedi value peace making, training others, while the Sith value power. Being a Darth means you killed quite some powerful people and noone could kill you (yet).

 

Oh and about the 2 councils: both got slaughtered, but the all the PCs are levels above any of the NPC council members, be it Jedi or Sith. It's almost like Anakin slaughtering B1 Battle Droids.

Edited August 1, 2016 by jauvtus

[Celise]

I am of course pointing to jedi masters not knights but masters why do I say this well that is because of their terrible track records among all the jedi master we know in SWTOR only 3 managed to defeat Darth's and this are Satele Shan, Jaric Kaedan and Tol Braga the rest like Orgus Din, Nomen Karr, the Organa jedi master and well all the other jedi masters in the council actually. One of them got their *** kicked by a sith lord a very strong one but a sith lord.

And do not get me that Korriban makes them better sith as jedi have to pass to hell to become knights and well this are masters not knights a even bigger hell to pass to get there.

So why are most of them so weak compared to Darth's with the exception of those 3 and of course the PC's but their abominations in the force.

 

Kids who are sent to the academy are taught the force and then its dark aspects and how to fight. those kids who refused to fight or fought poorly were left slain on Korriban feeding Tu'kata or worse feeding K'lor'slugs.

 

What it comes down to is that young Sith are taught to fight very young and those that survive and grow in power, strength, experience and hatred are superior to those of the Jedi. so yes even a very well trained apprentice can defeat a master with the right combination of training.

 

As for the Jedi, they teach their children at a young age how to use the force, how to commune with it and call it a friend, typical Jedi are not taught advanced fighting techniques, general combat they are likely prepared to take on only in defense though, this includes light saber combat from a young age, mostly through combat droids or fellow Jedi. However due to a lack of overall understanding of how a Sith fights and not knowing what the dark arts can do, they can only prepare young Jedi for so much.

 

Satele was lucky to survive her confrontation with Darth Malgus twice and even the best Jedi are no match for him when Malgus is really on top of it, at least until one of the 8 heroes disposes of him later on proving there are people even more powerful than he is which begs the question, how strong is Satele really and if she is the benchmark for all Jedi, then it is a fairly poor showing. Consider that two Jedi heroes are more stronger than she is, but then again combat does not determine the rank of a Jedi, but by their experience and wisdom.

 

Jedis are more interested in the philosophy of peace and only dealing with issues that require the force or in self defense the light saber or when a saber is needed to clear an obstruction for example.

 

Sith are more interested in killing their enemies and learning secrets to make them more powerful, hatred seethes through them and they draw on the force as a weapon. Sith are trained for combat and typically the position of a sith is determined by overall strength and respect.

[adormitul]

I agree with the reasons of basically most of you but there is something I wanna add. Most if not all jedi masters we know where trained the basics before the first galactic war and they where playing catch up during the war. But now with the threat of sith they changed their training ways training their pupils in fighting sith becoming more combat oriented as we see on Tython.

Look at the current jedi born after the start of the first galactic war that we know well. Kira Karsen for example is so strong that she could fight Darth Angrall and not die in seconds as the ones in the jedi temple and she was a padawan. Ashara for example was a better duelist then her master and she was quite young. Jaesa Willsaam was also quite strong in my opinion stronger then her master.

So what I mean is the future masters of the order will not be so far behind the Darth's of Sith empire.

[Ildun]

Reminds me those Jedi Masters in Prologue,they are so weak

[Montferrand]

I don't believe we can use the game to determine if Darths are stronger than Jedi Masters. This game is story driven. A Sith is all about power and domination. You play generally a villain, or, at best, an anti-hero. So, of course, their stories (both Warrior and Inquisitor) make us fight powerful Jedi Masters and Sith Lord's that, of course, we will overcome. The Jedi are heroes. They are not about gaining more power for themselves, but to protect the Republic, the Order and the weak. That means that the foes we are facing must be a menace, a real threat. One way to show that a Darth or Sith Lord is a real threat is to make them kill some Jedi Masters or even better, your own Master, like Orgus Din or Yuon Par. Yeah, I know, she doesn't die, but you get the idea. In lore, I believe things are more balanced between Darth/Sith lords and Jedi Masters.

 

That being said, it is true that the Sith are more prone to fighting and killing (and scheming, cheating and backstabbing) to gain power. Whereas many Jedi Masters are more like scholars and philosophers. Their connection with the Force may be just as strong, but they may not be as skilled in combat. However, many Jedi Masters will also be specialized in combat and be just as skilled as a Dark Lord of the Sith.

[americanaussie]

The Sith have a sink or swim approach. They send out apprentices to do missions with the intent to kill them. Those who survive become stronger. Whereas the Jedi keep their padawans near the temple and safe because padawans are too susceptible to the dark side. With each victory, sith become stronger, constantly honing in on their survival skills. It's do or die with them.

[Montferrand]

The Sith have a sink or swim approach. They send out apprentices to do missions with the intent to kill them. Those who survive become stronger. Whereas the Jedi keep their padawans near the temple and safe because padawans are too susceptible to the dark side. With each victory, sith become stronger, constantly honing in on their survival skills. It's do or die with them.

 

The problem with the Sith is that it's not really the survival of the fittest. A lot of the "best" Sith are killed by average or weak Sith because of scheming, traps and that kind of thing. It is not a real meritocracy where the best candidates will reach a better position. A good exemple is the Inquisitor story. Zash does not take Darth Scotia's place because she was stronger in the Force. She uses a subterfuge. So the Sith end up eating themselves, killing the "best" and most expeirenced among themselves, while the Jedi Order keeps its best members and wizened masters. That's why the Jedi always end up victorious. Even barely...

[americanaussie]

Survival of the fittest doesn't necessarily mean it's physical combat in an arena. Someone's strength could be their mind /scheming. Maybe they don't have brute physical strength but can command or manipulate people into places. At least that's the way I see it.

[Montferrand]

Survival of the fittest doesn't necessarily mean it's physical combat in an arena. Someone's strength could be their mind /scheming. Maybe they don't have brute physical strength but can command or manipulate people into places. At least that's the way I see it.

 

Yes, but the way I understood this thread's question, we are talking about the strength in the Force and in combat between Sith Lords/Darth and Jedi Masters. Political scheming or power plays inside the Sith Empire does not factor into that. And, as I said, this political scheming may end up eliminating strong Force users and fighters in the Sith Empire, making the Sith weaker, not stronger.

[violascarletia]

The force is in balance.

Nomen karr is a shame of jedi, but in Balmorra, a new jedi/non-force user can kill a Darth.

In Corelia, 3 stupid Darth died one by one.

 

The shame is in balance.

 

About the most poweful one,

Luke >> Vitiate

 

And dark side=empire; light side=democracy

This is the reason dark side always fail, SW is come from US.

[phalczen]

I know this was a necro, but my feeling is that getting named a Darth is not the same distinction as getting named a master. We know from Attack of the Clones that you are typically a master before you are placed on the council, Anakin being the noteworthy exception, and only because of interference from the Supreme Chancellor. In this game, you can be named a Master and not be put on the Jedi Council. Granted, the prequel era isn't exactly old republic era, but in a similar fashion most (not all) Darths are on the Dark Council at this time. In any event, my point is that in order to be named a Darth, you must have accomplished a lot (i.e. killed a lot of people), whereas what "trials" you must overcome to become a Jedi Master are less clear. Even Lana Beniko, with all she has accomplished up to and including KOTFE/KOTET, is not named a Darth.

[adormitul]

Most Darth's are not on the council. Lets give you an example Darth Thanathon before he became a council member was the subordinate of another Darth that was a council member and in his own turn he had another Darth under him. There more Darth's non dark council members then council members about in my opinion twice as many but there could be more.

[Limariko]

I'd say it really depends on what you're using to determine 'weak' as being.

 

The Sith Order is really only the Pureblood species' martial culture with an overlay of "Stick it, Jedi" from the Jedi exiles, whereas the Jedi Order was always inclined to be more meditative and contemplative since Force users started to gather in groups. I'd say as far as Force ability goes, they're both equal. But when it comes to specific scenarios like combat, Sith are going to come out ahead.